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I like the fact that GW nicely points out that "none of the abilities are game-breakingly strong, feel free to allow your opponent to take a custom character too if you're playing Matched Play."
Because yeah. That makes sense. People need to realize that "Open Play" stuff is easily balanced for eeeeven if you're using points.
All I need are power levels for my looted wagons, GW, then I'm all set thanks!
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
As much as I hated Sweeping Advance in previous editions, it might fit in better with the fall back mechanic. Fall back, but you might just get gunned down during your retreat.
Cephalobeard wrote: If only we could better customize characters in Matched play.
Zero interest in open play.
It also doesn't sound like this is what I actually want customizability on - i.e. wargear - and instead it takes the usual current GW approach of "tables upon tables of COOL TRAITS you can use your monopose Primaris Librarian With Force Sword And Retributoratorus Pattern Bolt Pistol TM Games Workshop 2018.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
greggles wrote:The problem with the assault phase isn't the fly keyword, it is every unit being able to leave an assault with only the most minor of penalties.
If you turn tail and run in middle of a melee, you should pay for it. Should be a roll off for mortal wounds from the attacker. (or something to that effect). As it is right now, it's basically "oh you assaulted me, aww shucks, guess I'll just pull back and have my army obliterate you"
As it is right now, the whole trick to melee is surrounding a member of an enemy unit and boxing them in, and not killing them, so you can't just get shot up the next round after you kill everything in melee.
give a medal to this man
the_scotsman wrote:
wuestenfux wrote: Do GK finally become playable with pt reductions for GM in NDK, Purifiers, and Paladins, and the introduction of normal SMITE for GK.
Do we have rumors of exactly what their pts changes are? I heard 26ppm termies, 16ppm strikes, 32ppm paladins and a,couple other odds and ends like Crowe but no numbers on other stuff.
I suspect well need a bigger picture particularly because a big question remains in how they can deal with tanks.
Customization in matched play is in the form of warlord traits and relics.
We're used to only taking the best combos, but there are actually many options available. And many relics aren't described very clearly, so there are some modeling options too.
fresus wrote: Customization in matched play is in the form of warlord traits and relics.
We're used to only taking the best combos, but there are actually many options available. And many relics aren't described very clearly, so there are some modeling options too.
Agreed. And customization at the same level as Open Play would be a nightmare to balance in Matched Play, eventually leading to the same "best combos" showing up again and again, so what would be the point?
I like the fact that GW nicely points out that "none of the abilities are game-breakingly strong, feel free to allow your opponent to take a custom character too if you're playing Matched Play."
Because yeah. That makes sense. People need to realize that "Open Play" stuff is easily balanced for eeeeven if you're using points.
All I need are power levels for my looted wagons, GW, then I'm all set thanks!
the article says Narrative play, not Matched. Did they edit it?
The idea that my melee wraithknight cannot hurt a model on the first floor of a ruin because he can't reach them is pretty ridiculous.
Did I miss something? Last time I checked if your model is within 1" then you can engage in CC.
Distances are measured from a model's base unless otherwise specified (e.g. certain tanks). The Wraithknight's base will normally be on the ground, so a unit 3" up in a ruin would be out of engagement distance of the Wraithknight.
Jidmah wrote: Yeah, nothing should ever get an exception from the 9" rule - that's one of greatest achievements of 8th.
Halving all damage - that I can get behind.
How is it really different from deploying 9" but getting enough modifiers that odds are same as charging normally but deploying closer? As it is we have stuff doing the 9" charges with 74% odds without even factorin rerolls. About same as rolling 6" on 2d6(bit better actually)
Shooting. Contesting objectives. Blocking movement. Using stratagems. Casting Psychic Powers. Character assassination. Auras.
There are plenty of reasons for wanting to push out deep strikers, assault is but one of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bullyboy wrote: Except we already have it in the Callidus assassin
Am all for taking it away from them as well. Make them work without it instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 15:24:07
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
lonewolf81 wrote: terrain is still there for cover saves, line of sight blocking and vertical movement
Assault phase and units like dreadnoughts,cavalry, bikers and monsters (without fly) need all the help they can get.
Otherwise all you see will be castles shooting each other and fly units alround.
Why should anyone pay a load of points for an assault unit that can be so easily denied its assault . So many units are made obsolete because the opponent knows you cant fit or you cant climb a terrain piece right from the start, after an already superbuffed shooting phase.
Check FAQ2 Fly nolonger allows you to ignore terrain or enemy models outside the movement phase.
Infantry can assualt through ruins as if they weren't there anywah you just need to make sure and clear some space for a model to end it's charge in.
What you propose just oppens the door for people to abuse wobbly model to magically be able tlto break the rules.
I have read the FAQ, it doesnt change the fact that fly units can reach anything/anywhere in assault, why should anyone pay for any other unit type.
If realism is your problem, imagine that cavalry and bikes assault like infantry through rubble and stairs and dreads or monsters grab infantry from the balconies or something.
My point is that you loose variety from the table. No one plays those units (just for fun maybe) because of those restrictions. A change like this wont brake the game because shooting phase and smite spam psychic phase are already superior to assault
phase Also you still have to roll the distance to reach the enemy like you do with the infantry how can someone abuse that. The abusement happens now, where everyone plays flyrants, jetbike custodes captains, flying demon princes and slam lords and not melee dreads, characters on thunderwolves, juggernaut chaos lords, monsters on foot etc
Too many FAQ's it's in the Rulebook FAQ version 1.3 and onwards currently. Not actually in FAQ2 despite being changed at the same time, My bad. Flying models now follow the normal non fly movement rules for charging and have done so since FAQ2.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 15:30:29
greggles wrote: The problem with the assault phase isn't the fly keyword, it is every unit being able to leave an assault with only the most minor of penalties.
If you turn tail and run in middle of a melee, you should pay for it. Should be a roll off for mortal wounds from the attacker. (or something to that effect). As it is right now, it's basically "oh you assaulted me, aww shucks, guess I'll just pull back and have my army obliterate you"
As it is right now, the whole trick to melee is surrounding a member of an enemy unit and boxing them in, and not killing them, so you can't just get shot up the next round after you kill everything in melee.
Exactly. I'd also be inclined to get rid of overwatch for the same reason.
greggles wrote: The problem with the assault phase isn't the fly keyword, it is every unit being able to leave an assault with only the most minor of penalties.
If you turn tail and run in middle of a melee, you should pay for it. Should be a roll off for mortal wounds from the attacker. (or something to that effect). As it is right now, it's basically "oh you assaulted me, aww shucks, guess I'll just pull back and have my army obliterate you"
As it is right now, the whole trick to melee is surrounding a member of an enemy unit and boxing them in, and not killing them, so you can't just get shot up the next round after you kill everything in melee.
Exactly. I'd also be inclined to get rid of overwatch for the same reason.
Hope you like being hugged by an Ork as that's all you would have with those changes turn 1 charge and chew chew chew oh you have no army GG. Real fun
greggles wrote: The problem with the assault phase isn't the fly keyword, it is every unit being able to leave an assault with only the most minor of penalties.
If you turn tail and run in middle of a melee, you should pay for it. Should be a roll off for mortal wounds from the attacker. (or something to that effect). As it is right now, it's basically "oh you assaulted me, aww shucks, guess I'll just pull back and have my army obliterate you"
As it is right now, the whole trick to melee is surrounding a member of an enemy unit and boxing them in, and not killing them, so you can't just get shot up the next round after you kill everything in melee.
Exactly. I'd also be inclined to get rid of overwatch for the same reason.
Overwatch is perfectly fine. We simply need a melee equivalent. If you wanna leave combat, everyone hits you on a 6.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Galef wrote: Oh yeah, another ability giving melee rerolls to a shooting unit!
I can say with at least 60% confidence that GW does not intend for Raptors to be a mostly shooting-oriented unit.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
greggles wrote: The problem with the assault phase isn't the fly keyword, it is every unit being able to leave an assault with only the most minor of penalties.
If you turn tail and run in middle of a melee, you should pay for it. Should be a roll off for mortal wounds from the attacker. (or something to that effect). As it is right now, it's basically "oh you assaulted me, aww shucks, guess I'll just pull back and have my army obliterate you"
As it is right now, the whole trick to melee is surrounding a member of an enemy unit and boxing them in, and not killing them, so you can't just get shot up the next round after you kill everything in melee.
Exactly. I'd also be inclined to get rid of overwatch for the same reason.
Overwatch is perfectly fine. We simply need a melee equivalent. If you wanna leave combat, everyone hits you on a 6.
I meant more like you either have an equivalent or neither. The biggest problem with overwatch is the time it takes relative to the output.
greggles wrote: The problem with the assault phase isn't the fly keyword, it is every unit being able to leave an assault with only the most minor of penalties.
If you turn tail and run in middle of a melee, you should pay for it. Should be a roll off for mortal wounds from the attacker. (or something to that effect). As it is right now, it's basically "oh you assaulted me, aww shucks, guess I'll just pull back and have my army obliterate you"
As it is right now, the whole trick to melee is surrounding a member of an enemy unit and boxing them in, and not killing them, so you can't just get shot up the next round after you kill everything in melee.
Exactly. I'd also be inclined to get rid of overwatch for the same reason.
Hope you like being hugged by an Ork as that's all you would have with those changes turn 1 charge and chew chew chew oh you have no army GG. Real fun
Yeah, no overwatch no fallback means that you might as well give every shooting unit a 'scoop when charged' rule. Any unit that has to fallback is basically out of the game as it is, even if they're not dead.
The only bad part about him is the warlord trait which GW seam to have forgotten that they limited to 1 CP per battle round.
I think those rules that refund the CP cost itself still work, just things like Kurov's Aquila only give a max of 1. Calgar's trait refunds the cost back which I think still works.
Galef wrote: Oh yeah, another ability giving melee rerolls to a shooting unit!
I can say with at least 60% confidence that GW does not intend for Raptors to be a mostly shooting-oriented unit.
Given that they are, you know, Chaos Assault Marines.
Oh, I agree the INTENT is for Raptors to be melee, but given they can take 2 Special weapons and the only melee weapons available (outside the Champs options) are chainswords, it'd say they're EXECUTION is to be a shooting unit. At best with a melee Champion. Warp Talons are the real melee Raptors
Anyone think Calgar seems even more like "discount Guilliman"? Not saying that's bad, just an observation.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 16:06:26
The only bad part about him is the warlord trait which GW seam to have forgotten that they limited to 1 CP per battle round.
I don't see how that is bad. If it is the only cp gain you have, then you are only getting it 1-in-3 times. Pretty useful to have, even if you can't get 2 in a turn. You would need to spend 6 cp to get that anyway.
