Chapter approved rumors

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Trickstick**

Emperor's Wrath doesn't include manticores, which makes me sad. I guess my 5th ed decision to got for manticores over basilisks comes back to haunt me. Would be a bit powerful to get a bonus manticore shot. Oh well, it doesn't look super amazing so maybe the infantry one will be a better fit. 2cp for a basilisk shot seems expensive to me. I do like the +1ap and ignore cover stuff though. MoO with warlord and relic with 3x basilisk has a nice theme to it.

**casvalremdeikun**

Crimson wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I like that there's a stratagem for each version of the intercessors. in scepters are able to be taken as part of the Detachment but they kind of don't have any sort of bonus so that kind of blows. But I'm probably going to be changing a couple of my intercessor squads to have stalker bolt rifles now.

Oh for feth's sake, the standard rifle stratagem is easily the best! Now there is even less reason to ever take the auto bolt rifles!

I know. Auto-hitting is nothing when the other guys his on 3s with four shots with AP-1. At least the Stalker Bolt Rifle Stratagem allows you to do something you otherwise couldn't.

Overall, most of the point reductions look great. Power Fists going down to 9 pts and intercessors going down a point each just made equipping them for dual-function even better.

**Blackie**

2 points storm shields?????? seriously? Missile launchers, plasma guns, flamers, power fists... all got cheaper. Twin weapons cost are not 2x single weapon's cost anymore

I'd expect something like that also for other armies. Especially orks, at this point a 13ppm power klaw is not acceptable when the imperium equivalent is just 9. I know they should be out of CA though.

Glad they didn't lowered ass can razorbacks and I like drop pods being just 65 points. The land raider, I'm looking at the crusader, should be decent enough with this price.

**casvalremdeikun**

Blackie wrote:
2 points storm shields?????? seriously? Missile launchers, plasma guns, flamers, power fists... all got cheaper. Twin weapons cost are not 2x single weapon's cost anymore.

I'd expect something like that also for other armies. Especially orks, at this point a 13ppm power klaw is not acceptable when the imperium equivalent is just 9. I know they should be out of CA though.

Twin weapons SHOULDN'T be twice the price of the individual weapon. Two Lascannons are better than one Twin Lascannon.

**Blackie**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blackie wrote:
2 points storm shields?????? seriously? Missile launchers, plasma guns, flamers, power fists... all got cheaper. Twin weapons cost are not 2x single weapon's cost anymore.

I'd expect something like that also for other armies. Especially orks, at this point a 13ppm power klaw is not acceptable when the imperium equivalent is just 9. I know they should be out of CA though.
Twin weapons SHOULDN'T be twice the price of the individual weapon. Two Lascannons are better than one Twin Lascannon.

Yeah, but all twin ork guns are 2x the single weapon. And the ork codex is pretty new.

**Trickstick**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blackie wrote:
2 points storm shields?????? seriously? Missile launchers, plasma guns, flamers, power fists... all got cheaper. Twin weapons cost are not 2x single weapon's cost anymore.

I'd expect something like that also for other armies. Especially orks, at this point a 13ppm power klaw is not acceptable when the imperium equivalent is just 9. I know they should be out of CA though.
Twin weapons SHOULDN'T be twice the price of the individual weapon. Two Lascannons are better than one Twin Lascannon.

Sometimes they are, sometimes not. Singles can split fire, twins can benefit from special rules that buff one weapon.

**Crimson_**

Base Redemptor down by 35 points and the heavy gatling cannon another 6. Hooray!

**Slayer-Fan123**

kombatwombat wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You already know the tools those armies have, and they're basically the same tools.

Also the army with the most prolific access to Plasma is Imperial Guard. I love you implied Marines though. It was so funny when you showed you haven't an idea what you're talking about!

Spoken like someone who has no idea about Sisters of Battle. But yeah thanks for that, I’ll go pack my Celestians into a Land Raider, and my Repentia into a Stormraven, then I’ll use Lascannons for anti-tank, plasma for general duties, Grav for anti-elites, Terminators for shock assault duties and bikes to tie up the flanks. Cos y’know, we have basically the same tools as Marines.

Also, a quick canter through the Guard Codex shows me 18 datasheets that can take plasma. An equally brief run through the Marine Codex shows me 31 datasheets that can take plasma.

If you’re going to be an ass, at least have the dignity to be right.

Custodes, like Knights, were designed for allies in mind. It sucks, but tough.

Kinda missed the point of what I was saying, but anyway - mono Custodes work just fine up to and including a mildly competitive meta. When the Talons IA book drops they’ll be a fully fledged faction.

LOL at the notion of using Land Raiders and Storm Ravens.

More options =/= Good options. Like, at all.

Also, you wanted to take the most amount of Plasma. So look at the points of how many Plasma Guns Scions and Vets can take. Once again, just because there's more options doesn't mean crap if they all take 1 each.

**Galef**

Melta still more expensive than Plasma. No matter how cheap they make Melta, it will never be a valid option unless it's cheaper than Plasma

-

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yeah, just because 31 datasheets have plasma as an option doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more than 31 plasma available. It could be that each of those units can take plasma only once, but in those 15 datasheets that have them they can take plasma multiple times. Details are important.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galef wrote:
Melta still more expensive than Plasma. No matter how cheap they make Melta, it will never be a valid option unless it's cheaper than Plasma

-

Isn't melta more efficient against vehicles though, due to its higher strength, armor pen and melta rule? They could be basing it on that.

**kombatwombat**

The hell is going on with the points costs? They’re including the costs for some things that haven’t changed, but not all things that haven’t changed. They’ve included Vindicators which changed in the CA’17, but then they’ve also included bolt pistols which have never changed, but then they haven’t included lots of things that have never changed.

Anybody a clue as to the logic behind what’s printed and what’s not?

**Rinion**

Cawl looks missing from the list of changes which means he's back at 250 when all the other characters got cheaper!

*edit*

Oops, i need my optical implants replacing, he's 190!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You want context? Okay.

3CP and 100 points for five S4 AP-2 D1 shots with a mortal wound on a 6 to wound...
OR
1CP and 60 points for 10-20 S4 AP-2 D2 shots...

How's that context for ya?

This is hogwash.

In the Haarken debate you told people to wait for the details.
Here you're not waiting for the details.

Additionally, if you can't see the difference between a gun that is 36" and can target characters from one that is 24" then I don't know what to tell you.

We HAVE those details.
1. Units don't go up in price basically when codices are released.
2. This Strategem is 1CP
3. The squad in question is going to remain 60 points and can take 5 Storm Bolters.

Also if you really think targeting characters is that amazing, why don't Sniper Scouts get used? They're significantly cheaper, don't have AP on their guns to be negated by any Invul, and they can deploy anywhere.
Why aren't Eldar Rangers being used for anything but meeting a tax.

Anything Sniper is bad because they're not actually a threat. If you think it is, you're legit a bad player.

**Trickstick**

Demolisher cannon 20 points? That's quite the reduction. Demolisher tanks are viable again.

**Galef**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't melta more efficient against vehicles though, due to its higher strength, armor pen and melta rule? They could be basing it on that.

Only slightly, but Plasma is so close to the same output AND is far better against everything else. Plasma is just the better weapon period. And 1-shot D6 damage weapons are woefully unreliable, even if they have the potential to do more wounds.
At the very least, they should cost the same

-

**Slayer-Fan123**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, just because 31 datasheets have plasma as an option doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more than 31 plasma available. It could be that each of those units can take plasma only once, but in those 15 datasheets that have them they can take plasma multiple times. Details are important.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galef wrote:
Melta still more expensive than Plasma. No matter how cheap they make Melta, it will never be a valid option unless it's cheaper than Plasma

-

Isn't melta more efficient against vehicles though, due to its higher strength, armor pen and melta rule? They could be basing it on that.

My theory is they're pricing it based on you being in range at all times and using the Assault profile.

With Multi-Melta I don't know what their logic is.

**rvd1ofakind**

Rinion wrote:
Cawl looks missing from the list of changes which means he's back at 250 when all the other characters got cheaper!

Huh? do you have a pic of the admech section?

**CthuluIsSpy**

Galef wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't melta more efficient against vehicles though, due to its higher strength, armor pen and melta rule? They could be basing it on that.
Only slightly, but Plasma is so close to the same output AND it far better against units with more than 1 model. Plasma is just the better weapon period. And 1-shot D6 damage weapons are woefully unreliable, even if they have the potential to do more wounds.
At the very least, they should cost the same

-

Fair enough. Plasma does seem to be a better all rounder, and it does have a range advantage. I could get behind them being the same points cost.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galef wrote:
Melta still more expensive than Plasma. No matter how cheap they make Melta, it will never be a valid option unless it's cheaper than Plasma

-

If the platforms are cheap enough it won't matter. Fire Dragons are almost good, after all.

**Asmodai**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Rinion wrote:
Cawl looks missing from the list of changes which means he's back at 250 when all the other characters got cheaper!

Huh? do you have a pic of the admech section?

Click on the posters's name in the Imgur gallery and you can see the other galleries he's posted with more pages.

**Slayer-Fan123**

lonewolf81 wrote:
Imateria wrote:
lonewolf81 wrote:
guardsmen and cultists went 5 points (which is good btw) and kabalites stayed 6pts ....pfff

Do you know what Guardsmen and Cultists have that Kabalites don't? Force multipliers, pretty much the best Kabalites can get is is the standard re-roll 1's to hit, and maybe wound if you're going for a very unusual set up. They do not have psychic powers (anyone that says Doom is an idiot, you are not wasting that on Kabalites), stratagems or orders, the only actual advantage they have is 3+ to hit and a gun that whilst better against T4+ is ridiculously inefficient against T3 hordes.

Kabalites are undercosted for their statline (so are guardsmen and cultists). Also almost the whole dark eldar codex is undercosted (venoms, razorwings, ravagers, grotesques, talos , some weapon options etc)

Cultists aren't underpriced. They're correctly priced. Them being the same as Infantry is as silly as bumping Conscripts to Infantry price was.

**kombatwombat**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, just because 31 datasheets have plasma as an option doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more than 31 plasma available. It could be that each of those units can take plasma only once, but in those 15 datasheets that have them they can take plasma multiple times. Details are important.

Remember that Hellblasters, Vanguard and Sternguard are all potentially 10-man units that can have a plasma weapon - or even two - on each model. Besides which, it doesn’t matter in the end; no matter which way you cut it, Space Marines have massive access to Plasma and Sisters have none, which was the whole point.

**dadamowsky**

Asmodai wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
Rinion wrote:
Cawl looks missing from the list of changes which means he's back at 250 when all the other characters got cheaper!

Huh? do you have a pic of the admech section?

Click on the posters's name in the Imgur gallery and you can see the other galleries he's posted with more pages.

I see Cawl at 190 (!!!)

**Trickstick**

Looks like a nice range of Guard points drops, more than makes up for (unconfirmed) 5pt infantry. Hydras, armoured sentinels, demolishers, pretty much every weapon choice, chimera, a few superheavies, probably more. And they fixed the stupid artemia cannon to 20pts.

**CthuluIsSpy**

What about necrons tho? Seeing everything else getting leaks is annoying.

**Rinion**

dadamowsky wrote:

I see Cawl at 190 (!!!)

Oops! My bad!

**Crimson**

Thermal Cannon is the only decent melta weapon in the game. (Remember to save a command re-roll for the number of shots though!)

---

In any case, even though I'm salty about auto bolt rifles getting a shaft again* I am pleased that at least there now is a reason to run non-DW Primaris again. I think an Indomitus Crusade fuelled by (sigh) some guardsmen would be decently effective. (I probably need to bite a bullet and just model a platoon of chapter serfs**.)

(*I think I just start gluing them on my marines anyway and use them for normal bolt rifles; the big magazine is to explain that crazy rate of fire they can achieve with that stratagem!)

(** Spending months for modelling and painting them is pretty much a guaranteed way to get the CP batteries nerfed the moment I'm done.)

**Kanluwen**

I want to be excited about the AdMech drops...but 70 point Onagers is useless when Rule of 3 is still in play.

**aracersss**

the new CA leaks broke the community site ... it says
"403 Forbidden"

**Trickstick**

I don't think infantry squads went to 5 points. It goes hydra, lord commissar, which is where they would be.