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 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can take a rifle and a power sword so I am sure you can take a rifle and a power fist.

Perhaps. Or perhaps not; the example model didn't have one. Pointless and annoying weapon restrictions are kinda the defining feature of the Primaris. I'm not gonna open the glue until I know for sure.

Primaris are the snap fit line of 40k. They were designed to have limiting options. The entire line is made for ease of use and assembly for the brand new gamer. Doesn't mean vets can't love them too, I like a lot of the line too, but I doubt they will get complex kits any time soon. Even the multi part intercessors have hands molded onto weapons and require the hips to glue a certain way. It was intentional. It's annoying to good modelers but awesome for newbies.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

I was under the impression the wyches section isn't that great though?

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You must have a limited set of models. I have a pretty large witch army that isn't that great.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

I was under the impression the wyches section isn't that great though?

Wyches and Reavers are okay to good. Hellions and beasts are really weak, though.

I don't think the entirety of the DE Codex is undercosted, but thanks to how the army works it's very hard to design a bad list with them currently as the core units of each faction are strong. Ur-ghuls and Khymerae might suck but you're never going to be able to make a list that focuses on them.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

I have a different experience, but perhaps it's just my army.

If by practically you mean 3 things, the ravager the talos and grotesques. Meanwhile the entire wych cult section is over cost or flat doesn't work, a long with the entire court, incubi, cronos, wracks and beastpack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

I have a different experience, but perhaps it's just my army.

No he's just making stupid blanket statements. Besides, DE didn't get any cuts while every other faction did. If you hike their costs AND cut everyone else your effectively double nerfing them. It's pretty basic stuff, you make incremental changes. I would have rather they increased 10% of things then cut 90% of the units in the game, but they chose the smarter marketing approach for them.

As a marine player I'm really hoping this is fake or the 4 missing pages of profile changes are hiding something awesome.

None of the things that invalidate primaris have changed (knights, DE, reapers, hemlocks). Transports didn't get cheap enough to take enough where they won't get popped turn 1.

SS characters and van vets are winners (I think 2x plasma pistol vets with some SS+CS are now better plasma shooters per point than plasma inceptors). Cent devs look interesting but without a reasonably priced transport or a deepstrike strat they won't live through the 1st turn.

Dread still strongly outclassed by arimgers. No love for preds. Still the weakest flyers around. Tacs are on their way to get squatted. Grav is stupid over-priced. Meltas still more expensive than plasma (cheaper plasma bad for anything that needs it's armor save so there's that too...)

DW did get helped by the 0 point pistols (so a 2 ppm drop for intercessors). DW vets w/ SS+SBs are pretty good.

Marine characters screened by DW intercessors with deepstriking vets could be an interesting soup build.

Overall not enough to bring SM back to competitive levels. Holding out hope for the profile changes or a big "hahahaha awesome joke hu?" but disappointed.

Khabs...blasters...venoms...shredders...voidravens...nightfighters...disintegrators....Wracks (OP because of 4++ trait) you already mentioned grots and talos and ravager. Wych cult isn't great but their HQ is CHEAP AF and kinda makes up for it.

There are plenty of things they could have made better - like incubi though - so them not showing up on the CA makes no sense.

Point cuts won't fix the things you listed though. Marines fail to work well as a stand alone do to the core mechanics of the game. Toughness and armor saves are not worth it in this edition, those are the two things that make marines special.

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Khabs...blasters...venoms...shredders...voidravens...nightfighters...disintegrators....Wracks (OP because of 4++ trait) you already mentioned grots and talos and ravager. Wych cult isn't great but their HQ is CHEAP AF and kinda makes up for it.

There are plenty of things they could have made better - like incubi though - so them not showing up on the CA makes no sense.

LOL, kabs are arguable. I didn't mention them because guardians, firewarriors and admech troops are all too cheap, kind of, until you realize they just don't waste points on the useless things this edition, toughness and saves. So that's more a game mechanic failure, but I can see that as debatable. The other stuff you listed is out of touch. the fact you made up a unit in there speaks volumes. If you don't even know the names then you haven't bothered learning the army. Makes your opinion kind of rubbish.

Well, knights staying the same, while things to fight them gets cheaper is a buff to everyone else comparative to knights. DE staying the same works the same way. Yeah, Dissies are brokenly good, but having more firepower and bodies to handle them helps.

Not sure why everyone is so doomy and gloomy. Sheesh

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

Don't forget orks. A local tournament player enlisted me to help him test how the impact of Trakktor cannons was going to change the meta (his thought was if enough people were taking drukhari/eldar soup you could take a trakktor heavy list to invalidate them) and my army with 8 of those things in it (something outrageous like 400pts of models) did about 40 wounds to DE flying vehicles on the top of turn 1.

Autohit, D6 roll 2 take the highest damage and auto-explodes when you kill a flying unit is no joke. Popped the first two ravagers and did d3 mortal wounds to practically everything in his army.

bananathug wrote:

Dread still strongly outclassed by arimgers.

The window between Helebrutes and Amigers has narrowed quite a bit.

Fist / Reaper AC brute is 100 / 200 for two.

- 8 S12 AP3 D3 (or 8 S12 AP4 D6 -1 to hit)
// Compare to 4 Amiger attacks the same as the fist

- 8 S7 AP1 D1 shots
// Compare to 2 30" melta shots

- no degredation
- M8
- 16W
- Crazed

ML / Reaper AC brute is 90 / 180 for two.

- 2 S8 DP2 D6 or 2D6 S4 shots
- 8 S7 AP1 D1 shots
// Compare to 8 S7 AP1 D3 shots

- no degredation
- M8
- 16W
- Crazed
- easy to put in cover


Amiger moves faster and without penalty. It has a 5++ vs shooting. It has fewer wounds overall.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

bananathug wrote:

Dread still strongly outclassed by arimgers.

The window between Helebrutes and Amigers has narrowed quite a bit.

Fist / Reaper AC brute is 100 / 200 for two.

- 8 S12 AP3 D3 (or 8 S12 AP4 D6 -1 to hit)
// Compare to 4 Amiger attacks the same as the fist

- 8 S7 AP1 D1 shots
// Compare to 2 30" melta shots

- no degredation
- M8
- 16W
- Crazed

ML / Reaper AC brute is 90 / 180 for two.

- 2 S8 DP2 D6 or 2D6 S4 shots
- 8 S7 AP1 D1 shots
// Compare to 8 S7 AP1 D3 shots

- no degredation
- M8
- 16W
- Crazed
- easy to put in cover


Amiger moves faster and without penalty. It has a 5++ vs shooting. It has fewer wounds overall.

And, I think it is important to note that an Armiger is a Knight, and thus has to be in a Lord of War or Super Aux slot. So if you are limited to Battalions or other common detachments, you can still take a Dread, but can't take a Knight. I have seen some cases of this for local events as well as just excluding any Lord of War.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Khabs...blasters...venoms...shredders...voidravens...nightfighters...disintegrators....Wracks (OP because of 4++ trait) you already mentioned grots and talos and ravager. Wych cult isn't great but their HQ is CHEAP AF and kinda makes up for it.

There are plenty of things they could have made better - like incubi though - so them not showing up on the CA makes no sense.

LOL, kabs are arguable. I didn't mention them because guardians, firewarriors and admech troops are all too cheap, kind of, until you realize they just don't waste points on the useless things this edition, toughness and saves. So that's more a game mechanic failure, but I can see that as debatable. The other stuff you listed is out of touch. the fact you made up a unit in there speaks volumes. If you don't even know the names then you haven't bothered learning the army. Makes your opinion kind of rubbish.

Humm - seems more like a typo. Razorwing jetfighters is what I ment and you knew that. Your intellectual dishonesty is gross ATM. You hoenstly want to dispute those aren't all amazing units?

Neronoxx wrote:
Well, my 2000 pt Death Guard list just lost 60 points due to cultist nerfs. While receiving no buffs.
Blightlords dropped 4 points, which still leaves them far too expensive.
Plague Marines dropped one point. One.
This has gotta be some dumb joke.

It is a great buff if you don’t run cultist spam. Blighthaulers, Plague Marines, Hellbrutes, all the elite characters, plague burst crawler with entropy cannons, and more all got cheaper. My list is now well above 100pts cheaper.

Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

 Danarc wrote:
Unchanged PAGK and GK termy at 39 points. It was beautiful GW. feth you.

here other changes

Apothecary - 75
BroCap - 110
BroAnc - 90
BroChamp - 90
Chappy - 105
Dread - 150
GM - 130
GMNDK - 170
Interceptors - 21
LR - 200
LRC - 200
LRR - 180
Libby - 113
PallyAnc - 98
Pallies - 47
Puries - 19
Razor - 70
Servitors - 5
SR - 192
TechMarine - 55
Termies - 39
VenDread - 85

Stern - 105
Crowe - 80
Voldus - 153
Draigo - 180

H,Incinerator - 19
H. Psycannon - 24
Incinerator - 9
Psycannon - 7 (11 for termies)
Psilencer for Termies - 8
Incinerator for termies - 13
Twinlas - 40
Twin MM - 40
Typhoon - 38
ML - 20

Could someone tell me the actual point differences for Grey Knights now? My roommate who plays them will want to know. Thanks!

Apothecary - 75 (Was 90 = -15p)
BroCap - 110 (Was 150 = -40p)
BroAnc - 90 (Was 128 = -38p)
BroChamp - 90 (Was 113 = -23p)
Chappy - 105 (Was 144 = -39p)
Dread - 65 (Was 87 = -22p)
GM - 130 (Was 160 = -30p)
GMNDK - 170 (Was 190 = -20p)
Interceptors - 21 (Was 23 = -2p)
LR - 200 (Was 239 = -39p)
LRC - 200 (Was 244 = -44p)
LRR - 180 (Was 244 = -64)
Libby - 113 (Was 157 = -44p)
PallyAnc - 98 (Was 140 = -42p)
Pallies - 47 (Was 53 = --6p)
Puries - 19 (Was 26 = -7p)
Razor - 70 (Was 70 = carried over)
Servitors - 5 (Was 2 = +3p) ?
SR - 192 (Was 192 = carried over)
TechMarine - 55 (Was 91 = -44p) [Even cheaper still, servo arms dropped from 12 > 0 and plasma cutters from 7 > 5]
Termies - 39 (Was 41 = -2p)
VenDread - 85 (Was 110 = -25p)

Stern - 105 (Was 157 = -52p)
Crowe - 80 (Was 125 = -45p)
Voldus - 153 (Was 190 = -37p)
Draigo - 180 (Was 240 = -60p)

Hurricane Bolters - 10 (Was 20 = -10p)
H. Incinerator - 19 (Was 40 = -21p)
H. Psycannon - 24 (Was 30 = -6p)
Incinerator - 9 (Was 14 = -5p)
Psycannon - 7 (11 for termies) (Was 14/20 = -7/9p)
Psilencer for Termies - 8 (Was 10 = -2p)
Incinerator for termies - 13 (Was 20 = -7p)
Twinlas - 40 (Was 50 = -10p)
Twin MM - 40 (Was 54 = -14p)
Typhoon - 38 (Was 50 = -12p)
ML - 20 (Was 25 = -5p)
Plasma Cannon - 16 (Was 21 = -5p)
Twin Assault Cannon - 44 (Was 44 = carried over)

zinch wrote:As I said in the GK tactics thread:

While I was hopping a higher decrease in GKT and SS, the point drops in other units are huge: 30 points for a grand master, 20 for the GMNDK, point drops in all our weapons, etc.

I just recalculated my last 1500 list and I'd save 124 points (it would be more if I used more special weapons). It's not that bad

What are you saying? 124 point are 5 PAGK more. Now you are competitive? Can you face other armies? Can you not loose almost every time? Our terms are overoverovercosted for deep striking (only turn 2 and 3) and having 1 psychic power.
This time GW lose a customer.

I'm going to sell my GK. Bye.

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

Nids auto lose to DE. AP-4 and poison are direct counters to nids. Tau get screwed by DE - MSU beats tau (tau are good at killing a few big units - and really bad at killing -1 to hit MSU). Craftworlds is an amazing codex too - it can compete - IG struggle against -1 to hit in a lot of cases but IG is a top tier army too. TS? It's kinda meh...TS will have a much easy time now for sure but in a solo army (which is what I was talking about) TS just do not have the damage or relisiance to handle DE.

With the new points values, a Helverin is 175, a rifleman dread is 120 (4 autocannons).

For the 55 points, the Helverin gets 4 wounds and a 5++ but also gets a degrading statline that includes Ballistic Skill. It gains the ability to move around and fire, and gets Damage 3 instead of Damage 2 on its gun.

So, 45% more cost, 33% more damage on average vs almost all targets, 33% more durability (45% more vs AP-3, 55% more vs AP-4), and the ability to move.

Considering the much, much easier access to buffing auras you've got in Space marines, I kind of like the dreadnought better here, for the exact same role.

Talking about traditional "close range/close combat" dreads against armiger warglaives, I definitely think there's no reason to consider the dread unless you're taking a stormraven to plop him straight into combat. Then comparing like to like the Armiger vs a CCW/multimelta dread pays 52 points (112 vs 164, 46% more) for:

-33% or more extra durability, but again degrading stats
-The sweep attack profile, since the Strike profile is identical to the dread combat arm except against T6 targets
-double the fire power between MM and melta lance thingy

Considering that I can keep my dreadnought in a plane and deliver him straight to the target turn 2, while my Armiger has to run through enemy fire to get there, and then if I charge a heavy target they perform essentially identically, I kind of like the Dread here as well.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Khabs...blasters...venoms...shredders...voidravens...nightfighters...disintegrators....Wracks (OP because of 4++ trait) you already mentioned grots and talos and ravager. Wych cult isn't great but their HQ is CHEAP AF and kinda makes up for it.

There are plenty of things they could have made better - like incubi though - so them not showing up on the CA makes no sense.

LOL, kabs are arguable. I didn't mention them because guardians, firewarriors and admech troops are all too cheap, kind of, until you realize they just don't waste points on the useless things this edition, toughness and saves. So that's more a game mechanic failure, but I can see that as debatable. The other stuff you listed is out of touch. the fact you made up a unit in there speaks volumes. If you don't even know the names then you haven't bothered learning the army. Makes your opinion kind of rubbish.

Humm - seems more like a typo. Razorwing jetfighters is what I ment and you knew that. Your intellectual dishonesty is gross ATM. You hoenstly want to dispute those aren't all amazing units?

Actually I didn't know anything in regard to your intent. When you make broad unsubstantiated claims for multiple posts and then can't list the units your claiming to have issue with I think it speaks volumes. Whats intellectually gross is your current attempt at making this into some sort of personal slight against you. Your literally using the most powerful tool in the history of mankind, I shouldn't and frankly refuse to make assumptions about your intent.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

Nids auto lose to DE. AP-4 and poison are direct counters to nids. Tau get screwed by DE - MSU beats tau (tau are good at killing a few big units - and really bad at killing -1 to hit MSU). Craftworlds is an amazing codex too - it can compete - IG struggle against -1 to hit in a lot of cases but IG is a top tier army too. TS? It's kinda meh...TS will have a much easy time now for sure but in a solo army (which is what I was talking about) TS just do not have the damage or relisiance to handle DE.

I dunno, does my Thousand Sons list get the extra 300 points of models these changes put through for me?

 Danarc wrote:
Unchanged PAGK and GK termy at 39 points. It was beautiful GW. feth you.

Welp, there goes the new army I was thinking of buying. Guess GW didn't want my money after all.

Dark eldar have cheap super durable vehicles with fly and no penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons

they have cheap kabalite troops

they have cheap + resilient melee with hemonculus coven units

they have sm captain + leutenant buff from a cheap HQ with a build in 2+ inv save

they have -4 ap weapon spam

they have minus to hit shenanigans

Marines pay a lot more points for meh vehicles , which get shot by lances and you ask your opponent how much damage do i take because there is no save 99% of the time

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

Nids auto lose to DE. AP-4 and poison are direct counters to nids. Tau get screwed by DE - MSU beats tau (tau are good at killing a few big units - and really bad at killing -1 to hit MSU). Craftworlds is an amazing codex too - it can compete - IG struggle against -1 to hit in a lot of cases but IG is a top tier army too. TS? It's kinda meh...TS will have a much easy time now for sure but in a solo army (which is what I was talking about) TS just do not have the damage or relisiance to handle DE.

5th edition wants it's talking points back. Poison sucks verse nid monsters and is even worse verse gribblies. When most of the weapons in the game wound monsters on 5's and hordes on 3's poison 4+ is not that hot. As for AP -4, that all comes on single shot weaponry, any nid list worth it's salt is -1 to hit. Shooting like guardsmen at monsters you wound, half of which are T8 really isn't so special. As for Tau, velocity trackers completely counter the hit mod and quadruple tapping firewariors even with the mod more then make up the gap by wounding the vehicles on a 4+. And TS are one of the few armies that can hard counter DE, auto hitting mortal wounds, enlightened wound spam and practically auto pass death hex can really put the screws to a DE army.

 lonewolf81 wrote:
Dark eldar have cheap super durable vehicles with fly and no penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons

they have cheap kabalite troops

they have cheap + resilient melee with hemonculus coven units

they have sm captain + leutenant buff from a cheap HQ with a build in 2+ inv save

they have -4 ap weapon spam

they have minus to hit shenanigans

Your point?

They are super good and they are undecosted , thats my point

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

Nids auto lose to DE. AP-4 and poison are direct counters to nids. Tau get screwed by DE - MSU beats tau (tau are good at killing a few big units - and really bad at killing -1 to hit MSU). Craftworlds is an amazing codex too - it can compete - IG struggle against -1 to hit in a lot of cases but IG is a top tier army too. TS? It's kinda meh...TS will have a much easy time now for sure but in a solo army (which is what I was talking about) TS just do not have the damage or relisiance to handle DE.

I dunno, does my Thousand Sons list get the extra 300 points of models these changes put through for me?

Yeah - I said that. TS are very much improved with CA. Rubrics will actually do well against the DE.

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

I would argue all of the following may be undercosted. Which makes up most of the codex not to mention core units.
- Kabs, Voidraven, Razorwing, Ravager, Venom, Talos, Jetbikes, Haemies, Wracks, Grots, Succ, Archon, Shredder, Blaster, Dissie,

Likely over costed
Beasts, Hellions, Incubi, wyches

All others likely being appropriate or non-factors.

Granted it's hard to say if the above is still true considering all the other point changes. But I have even had pure wych cults stomp post codex orks. Though they brought no tractors which is definitely a hard counter.