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tneva82 wrote:


That's not in ca though. Or vigillus. The stompa mob is basically waste. 2k game not enough to field it and even bigger not making stompa worth it. And not all have 2 fw super heavies. 3 stompa? 3k, worth less than 2k and not many own 3. Would be better in net free bonus. To have to pay? Lol.

Orks get 4 different specialist detachments in Vigilus. If one of them is only really for apocalypse games then you have 3 others - which is more than most factions. So quit yer whinin' and get krumpin'

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways. Maybe orks will get updated in the next FAQ but I was under the assumption the basically wrote CA and the ork 'dex at the same time, so they should've seen this coming. See also: Ork warbikers/SM bikes, Flamers/ork burnas, Heavy stubbers/big shootas etc..

Back on track, have we had any leaks in regards to any CP/Ally/Soup/Detachment/Cover rules changes from CA?

Quite correct on the strange pricing policy.
Same reallly for CSM terminators, why are we now more expensive? because we can be cheaper equipped? Because we have Combi plas and cacophony?
Because everyone and their mother runs slanesh terminators?

Imo, cultures/traits/doctrines and stratagems should not go into the pricing point and instead be propperly adressed for once, but no. (yes especially cacophony needs a look at, considering the melee version of it costs 3 cp)

Edit: not to mention Cultists are now 5ppm but IG squads were fine? Like what showed up in any list to give it cheap CP? Have i missed something?

Not Online!!! wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways. Maybe orks will get updated in the next FAQ but I was under the assumption the basically wrote CA and the ork 'dex at the same time, so they should've seen this coming. See also: Ork warbikers/SM bikes, Flamers/ork burnas, Heavy stubbers/big shootas etc..

Back on track, have we had any leaks in regards to any CP/Ally/Soup/Detachment/Cover rules changes from CA?

Quite correct on the strange pricing policy.
Same reallly for CSM terminators, why are we now more expensive? because we can be cheaper equipped? Because we have Combi plas and cacophony?
Because everyone and their mother runs slanesh terminators?

Imo, cultures/traits/doctrines and stratagems should not go into the pricing point and instead be propperly adressed for once, but no. (yes especially cacophony needs a look at, considering the melee version of it costs 3 cp)

Edit: not to mention Cultists are now 5ppm but IG squads were fine? Like what showed up in any list to give it cheap CP? Have i missed something?

In the infantry squad matter i think it may be because putting 5 ppm guardsmen would have done next to nothing to the loyal 32 although i don’t think cultists should have gone up either

Considering that i outsourced CP anyways for my few remaining CSM, i am not hit by it but i'd like to understand WTF is going on.

Also Spawn at 25 ppm? That is a steal tbf.
And why are warptalons now cheaper then raptors ppm wise?

On the otherhand a Helldrake with Hades autocannon now looks like an actual option in the book ?!?

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways. Maybe orks will get updated in the next FAQ but I was under the assumption the basically wrote CA and the ork 'dex at the same time, so they should've seen this coming. See also: Ork warbikers/SM bikes, Flamers/ork burnas, Heavy stubbers/big shootas etc..

Back on track, have we had any leaks in regards to any CP/Ally/Soup/Detachment/Cover rules changes from CA?

Can rokkits be spammed in certain squads? Plus the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule. Not justifying it, more just asking as some of the interrelationships of other rules may justify it.

Also, maybe they just think they were too popular in the meta and want to see other options used.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways. Maybe orks will get updated in the next FAQ but I was under the assumption the basically wrote CA and the ork 'dex at the same time, so they should've seen this coming. See also: Ork warbikers/SM bikes, Flamers/ork burnas, Heavy stubbers/big shootas etc..

Back on track, have we had any leaks in regards to any CP/Ally/Soup/Detachment/Cover rules changes from CA?

Can rokkits be spammed in certain squads? Plus the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule. Not justifying it, more just asking as some of the interrelationships of other rules may justify it.

Also, maybe they just think they were too popular in the meta and want to see other options used.

Tankbustas are only equped with rockits, then again don't quote me since my Ork days are far gone.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways. Maybe orks will get updated in the next FAQ but I was under the assumption the basically wrote CA and the ork 'dex at the same time, so they should've seen this coming. See also: Ork warbikers/SM bikes, Flamers/ork burnas, Heavy stubbers/big shootas etc..

Back on track, have we had any leaks in regards to any CP/Ally/Soup/Detachment/Cover rules changes from CA?

Can rokkits be spammed in certain squads? Plus the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule. Not justifying it, more just asking as some of the interrelationships of other rules may justify it.

Also, maybe they just think they were too popular in the meta and want to see other options used.

Yeah, by tankbustas, otherwise it's 1 per 10 models. Also, dakkadakkadakka combined with the bad moons reroll 1's in shooting phase is <almost> as good as BS4+. So neither are really viable explanations IMO (not attacking you, just saying I don't think that's the reason). Problem is that the rokkits are basically the only anti-tank weapon orks can put on infantry, the kustom blastas are few and far inbetween and tankbusta bombs are grenades and tough to get in range.

No need for a huge price slash but cut them down to 10, bikers to 21, burnas to 10, big shootas to like 3, powerklaw to 9, killsaw to 11 and everything is roughly on par with where it should be. But yeah, guardsmen should go to 5 if cultists are. CSM terminators probably shouldn't be more expensive than SM ones. Some odd choices in here even if the overall result is probably a better game than pre CA 2018.

I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways.

Perhaps because a Rokkit Launcha does 3 damage without killing the (more expensive) model holding it, rather than 2?

Kaneda88 wrote:

In the infantry squad matter i think it may be because putting 5 ppm guardsmen would have done next to nothing to the loyal 32 although i don’t think cultists should have gone up either

I think the reasoning is that top lists were taking minimum guardsmen for the CP and screening/scoring and 5 ppm would do nothing to change that but would hurt pure AM lists pretty hard. Cultists on the other hand were being taken in big numbers rather than minimum requirements.

I am not sure that after all the other 'fixes' to cultist problems it was still needed but I think that was probably the logic.

Justyn wrote:

I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways.

Perhaps because a Rokkit Launcha does 3 damage without killing the (more expensive) model holding it, rather than 2?

Sure, but they also have 1 point better AP, fire 2 shots in RF range and are fired at BS3+ instead of BS5+. I'm not talking about tankbustas being cheaper (just raise their cost according to the rokkit drop), I'm talking about bog standard rokkits being more expensive than plasma. Which again, I'd be fine with if that's the thought process, orks shouldn't have the best shooting. But then the PK should cost the same as a PF, because that is what they're best at. This is more a low-grade irk than full on anger..

fe40k wrote:

Semper wrote:
HANG ON. Just HANG THE WARP ON.

Utterly perplexed why the daemon lords are still stupid point cost and the Greater Brass Scorpion went UP in cost?? UP!? The thing wasn't worth it's points as it was! Why do I have a £120 model that's facing such obstacles? I can only pray they've at least given the thing another 8 or so wounds and strength 16 (after weapons) to justify that price hike.Then cultists went up? hahaha Maybe a nurgling got into the rules writing again? Did someone let them out of the cage? lmao...


I am, however, very happy wit the GD point drops. That was a good year overdue and I love the models, love the fluff for them but just couldn't justify a bloodthirster (I did get some good use from Keeper of Secrets in smaller games where it's downright scary, GUO and LOC were alreet). Skarbrand's lack of points drop is a bit odd. CSM special character drops ok. Defiler got another points drop = smooth.

Monolith point drop didn't go far enough.

Greater Brass Scorpion went up because it’s a FW model.

GW is killing off all FW models by making them massively overpriced; don’t take it personally.

"(*&$"&£$)($! It's always personal... lol

I dunno. Seems like a silly nmove but then I am guessing that's a preach to the converted.

Monoliths, if no furthe rppint drop, desperately need a more reliable way to recoup wounds and an invulnerable/feel no pain save.

GBS can have its point cost justified but not without some changes like a significant wound hike (up to 30ish) or maybe something a little more creative like keep it where it is but for every thing it 'eats' in combat with its flamers it devours soles and regains a wound... not that we're in this thread to do GW's job.... still a little unsure why a knight has more wounds for less the cost?

fe40k wrote:

Semper wrote:
HANG ON. Just HANG THE WARP ON.

Utterly perplexed why the daemon lords are still stupid point cost and the Greater Brass Scorpion went UP in cost?? UP!? The thing wasn't worth it's points as it was! Why do I have a £120 model that's facing such obstacles? I can only pray they've at least given the thing another 8 or so wounds and strength 16 (after weapons) to justify that price hike.Then cultists went up? hahaha Maybe a nurgling got into the rules writing again? Did someone let them out of the cage? lmao...


I am, however, very happy wit the GD point drops. That was a good year overdue and I love the models, love the fluff for them but just couldn't justify a bloodthirster (I did get some good use from Keeper of Secrets in smaller games where it's downright scary, GUO and LOC were alreet). Skarbrand's lack of points drop is a bit odd. CSM special character drops ok. Defiler got another points drop = smooth.

Monolith point drop didn't go far enough.

Greater Brass Scorpion went up because it’s a FW model.

GW is killing off all FW models by making them massively overpriced; don’t take it personally.

Both Necron Pylons got pretty significant points reductions but I guess you wouldn't mention that because it doesn't fit your narrative. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

As this might be the Vigilius thread as well...

Formations!

https://youtu.be/sT0eDbjQTyc

Justyn wrote:

I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways.

Perhaps because a Rokkit Launcha does 3 damage without killing the (more expensive) model holding it, rather than 2?

It's more comparable to a dark reaper than a plasma gun. Half the range, half the BS, less than half the cost, it's assault instead of heavy , and buried inside a mass of boys.

Now take a deep breath and think about it. Right now we are seeing the most competitive ork codex since 5th edition. 25+10 lootas with grot shields and green tides of evil suns boys are one of the top threats in the Meta right now.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.

As a drukhari player I have to agree. I can't even bring a solo DE list to a friendly game even when deliberately taking non-optimized units. Even then losing is an uphill battle.

You really need better oponents. Well played Craftworlds, Thousand Sons, Tau, IG and Tyranids are a match for Drukhari.

Nids auto lose to DE. AP-4 and poison are direct counters to nids. Tau get screwed by DE - MSU beats tau (tau are good at killing a few big units - and really bad at killing -1 to hit MSU). Craftworlds is an amazing codex too - it can compete - IG struggle against -1 to hit in a lot of cases but IG is a top tier army too. TS? It's kinda meh...TS will have a much easy time now for sure but in a solo army (which is what I was talking about) TS just do not have the damage or relisiance to handle DE.

If you believe any of that absolute hogwash then you are yet again proving you know nothing about this game.

Nids absolutely don't auto lose, AP-4 is helpful but most of their big monsters are T8, so my single shot weapons are wounding on 4's and poison is demonstrably worse against them this edition. Most troops choices for Nids are T3, which poison is horribly inefficient at dealing with while the big monsters have at least double and usually tripple the number of wounds they had last edition whilst the overall volume of poison shots your typical Drukhari army puts out is less than it was last edition thanks to Splinter Cannons changing from Salvo 4/6 to RF3 and just not being worth the points.

Tau are also MSU and their basic weapons wound our transports on 4's. I've played against them a lot, a good player knows how to stack their buffs against specific targets to blunt my force, their fire power is scary and it's the reason why you see Tau, who have no access to any soup, do relatively well at tournements, rarely winning but quite often finishing top 10.

IG can struggle against -1 to hit armies, but Drukhari don't have as much of it as Craftworlds do and IG bring a lot of guns, I mean this sounds like you're trying to argue that they don't have a decent codex.

I regularly play against Thousand Sons as well, and I'll admit my opponent their is flat out better than me at this game. The army is very glass hammer, 27 Tzaangor Enlightend with +1/2 to hit can do serious damage, we all know DP's are really good as is Ahriman and the Leviathan gives some good firepower as well.

 Vector Strike wrote:
As this might be the Vigilius thread as well...

Formations!

https://youtu.be/sT0eDbjQTyc

I like the Guard ones, although not the infantry conclave. Could be good for a melee catachan force but not for me. I like the tank and scion ones, probably use those. The mech one, combined with chimera points drops, may make mech a decent choice now. Orders out of chimeras, with vox range, makes me think of a 6 chimera brigade with infantry vox squads would work. Armageddon Emperor's Blade could have some really nice mech synergies.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

?
Then were are DKoK, R&H etc?
have i missed something?

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

cant locate, can I haz linkage?

The Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force seems like it was custom-made for Hellblasters. I wouldn't take it on a Battalion over Indomitus Crusaders, but if you have a Spearhead of Hellblasters it's glorious.

The Holy Hand Grenade is back, baby!

The Black Templars detachment seemed perfectly OK, but why doesn't it work on Terminators? Pretty sure they're part of the Marshal's Household too.

Is it me or lightning claws are not worth it anymore? Power swords are nearly as good for 2/3 of the price, on the other hand, far superior power fist and relic blade now cost only a tiny bit more.

Why grav is more expensive than plasma now I have no idea, I haven't seen a single grav gun in the whole of 8th edition. Any ideas?

I am also puzzled why only SM main book weapons got any love, and the chapter specific ones were ignored. Deathwatch shotgun and Infernus heavy bolter were weak before, now with a lot of competition getting points cut they are pretty garbage in comparison. Ew.

fe40k wrote:


Greater Brass Scorpion went up because it’s a FW model.

GW is killing off all FW models by making them massively overpriced; don’t take it personally.

Except for the FW models that went down?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:


On the otherhand a Helldrake with Hades autocannon now looks like an actual option in the book ?!?

I don't think i'll ever switch off the baleflamer. Autohits are too helpful when the BS starts degrading.

The Crimson Fists Liberator Strike Force is pretty decent.

Primaris Characters, Intercessors, Reivers, and Hellblasters
Warlord Trait is 9" Captain bonus. Nice.
Relic is a special bolt pistol. Blah.
Stratagem #1: Select a unit. 6s to hit equal two hits in shooting
Stratagem #2: Select a unit that was shot. You can immediately shoot back!

I think I am going to use the LSF on one Battalion and Indomitus Crusaders on the other in my army. They all look pretty sweet.

Starts to eat into your CP rather quick though...
That's the main flaw I see with these detachments-you just run dry SO fast. you can easily eat most if not all your CPs before the game even starts.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
As this might be the Vigilius thread as well...

Formations!

https://youtu.be/sT0eDbjQTyc

I like the Guard ones, although not the infantry conclave. Could be good for a melee catachan force but not for me. I like the tank and scion ones, probably use those. The mech one, combined with chimera points drops, may make mech a decent choice now. Orders out of chimeras, with vox range, makes me think of a 6 chimera brigade with infantry vox squads would work. Armageddon Emperor's Blade could have some really nice mech synergies.

Holy crap that Kult of Speed...

Double move as advance, charge, and then consolidate 2D6...

 BoomWolf wrote:
Starts to eat into your CP rather quick though...
That's the main flaw I see with these detachments-you just run dry SO fast. you can easily eat most if not all your CPs before the game even starts.

Eh, I will have 13 to start. Not a humongous concern. Most Marine Stratagems are gak to begin with.

According to B&C Only Intercessors and chaos daemons got updated datasheets. So there is 100% nothing new for GK.this means that the big win for GK was a mockery and at this point, considering all che other armies discounts, GK are at the same place they were.
At the bottom of the toilet.

This time GW really disappointed me. I’m going to sell my models, if someone are interested in HH RG and GK, please contact me.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Starts to eat into your CP rather quick though...
That's the main flaw I see with these detachments-you just run dry SO fast. you can easily eat most if not all your CPs before the game even starts.

Yep. Yet another change which makes allying in IG even more mandatory!