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The 9th ed won't invalidate codexes and PA's. And as such scale of changes won't be huge. More to effect of upgraded terrain rules and maybe some tweaks on CP generation. But nothing that will invalidate current codexes and supplements.

 Emicrania wrote:
My 2¢ about new ITC changes.

* Deffkopta and kommandos are gonna be huge. Behind enemy line and king of the hill make them a great scoring unit.

* Gangbusters still feth up our men gunz (Kans are crap anyway so nothing new there)

* Zagstrck could be our Postman, same for Zahdnarsk or warboss on bike.

* New recon with buggies is a MUST

* Board control is so big now that we can EASILY have the upper hand

* We have the chance to build a extremely good defence army, just aswell attack army

* Wanna go full boyz or mecha, spam KFF is a must

* You can tailor lists to every tournament since TO can now use CA 19 missions , know YOUR meta

* Primaris bleeding reaper is great. Meganobz, unfortunately will do the same.


All in all, very happy about the changes. Might be a tad to unbalanced towards being the defender, but we LL see.

Glad you're stoked on it. I think the ITC meta for Orks is so freaking boring, and maybe this will shake it up. At least a fast attack centric, infiltration style list sounds a lot more fun than just taking 120+ Ork Boyz.

I don't think the reaper change matters for Orks all that much, as no matter what, the enemy is probably getting Reaper on you anyway. Grots die in droves, and you still have to take a billion. If MANz or Gits give them up more quickly, so be it.

I do think Mek Gunz will probably need to be moved away from in ITC. Too easy for Kill More, gangbusters targets, etc. Plus they are a very uninteresting unit to field. I sort if you wish you could Tellyport them in, because it would be hilarious to drop like 6 smasha guns or 6 traktor kannons somewhere on turn 2.

I'm excited to see what people brew up in the new mission list.

Before I start, I'll apologise for re-hashing old ground.

I asked recently about the better general purpose shooting unit for Deathskulls out of lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz. I've been doing some playtesting and am leaning towards flash gitz at the moment, but I have come across another potential choice: deffkoptas with rokkits.

What are people's thoughts on these?

My local meta is semi-competitive, in that people will take some fluffy choices and stuff we think is cool, but the armies are still geared towards winning more often than not. Generally if a unit or two were switched out we would have an army you could expect to see at a tournament.

As far as mobility goes; I tend to run footsloggers with two weirdboys for jumping about as needed. Obviously the deffkoptas are good for stealing objectives and zipping about, but they are likely to get singled out early because they're generally faster than everything else. The lootas would be sitting still, and the bustas/gitz would either be risking it on foot or being jumped into position to hopefully destroy whatever they shoot at.

As far as putting out high power shots goes; The rokkits mean that four of them put out as much firepower as an eight strong unit of tankbustas, but trading reliability for some speed and bulk. The lootas put out decent damage, but are swingy and CP hungry. Tankbustas are good for killing vehicles but can be lacklustre elsewhere. Gitz put out reliable volume of D2 shots with decent accuracy, but suffer against higher T targets. And obviously range comes into play for bustas and gitz.


At the moment, I have about 190 points to play about with that will either be used for lootas, gitz, bustas, or now potentially koptas. Any gaps in the numbers can just be plugged with more grots.


TLR
Are koptas with rokkits good as a reliable shooting unit in a usually primaris/death guard heavy meta compared to TBs, lootas and FGs?


:EDIT:
Before they get mentioned, I know mek guns are good, but I don't fancy remortgaging for a few smasha guns.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Before I start, I'll apologise for re-hashing old ground.

I asked recently about the better general purpose shooting unit for Deathskulls out of lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz. I've been doing some playtesting and am leaning towards flash gitz at the moment, but I have come across another potential choice: deffkoptas with rokkits.

What are people's thoughts on these?

I just came back from a game running 5 and since their point drop a unit of 5 rokkit koptas has become a staple in my army. They have yet to disappoint me and provide what's basically a swiss army knife that's gut at a huge number of tasks.
While they are decent at taking out fliers with long, uncontrolled bursts, they don't even remotely compare with tank bustas.

As far as putting out high power shots goes; The rokkits mean that four of them put out as much firepower as an eight strong unit of tankbustas, but trading reliability for some speed and bulk.

The re-rolls aren't just reliability, they are also damage. Tank bustas also come with bomb squigs, which massively add to their damage.

TLR
Are koptas with rokkits good as a reliable shooting unit in a usually primaris/death guard heavy meta compared to TBs, lootas and FGs?

Short answer is no, they simply don't compare. The trick with the aforementioned units is that you multiply their damage with stratagems, to put out vastly more shooting than you paid points for. Koptas just have too little shooting to be a good target for stratagems. Ten rokkits simply don't compare to 15 rokkits and 6 bomb squigs with re-rolls, 30 deff gun or snazz gun shots.
Deff koptas are a great unit, but fill a different role than those CP sinks do.

I've played quite a lot of games with 4 deffkoptas with rokkit as deathskulls, and I didnt really like them, they are not reliable, they are very weak and, at the end, the only thing I did with them is to grab some recons.

I'm thinking in swapping the 15 tankbustas+5 squiggs with 10 flash gitz and badrukk in the BW, and no mek gunz, due to the kill more.

Anyways, still worried about the fact that pirates are heavy and I'm not sure how to play them

Can you please confirm that it is accepted for passenger of a FreeBooter trukk to benefit from FreeBooter trait if they also are FreeBooter?

Thanks for the feedback on koptas. If I have the points I may pick a few up for objective snatching.

I'll get back to playtesting the others.

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
My 2¢ about new ITC changes.

* Deffkopta and kommandos are gonna be huge. Behind enemy line and king of the hill make them a great scoring unit.

* Gangbusters still feth up our men gunz (Kans are crap anyway so nothing new there)

* Zagstrck could be our Postman, same for Zahdnarsk or warboss on bike.

* New recon with buggies is a MUST

* Board control is so big now that we can EASILY have the upper hand

* We have the chance to build a extremely good defence army, just aswell attack army

* Wanna go full boyz or mecha, spam KFF is a must

* You can tailor lists to every tournament since TO can now use CA 19 missions , know YOUR meta

* Primaris bleeding reaper is great. Meganobz, unfortunately will do the same.


All in all, very happy about the changes. Might be a tad to unbalanced towards being the defender, but we LL see.

Glad you're stoked on it. I think the ITC meta for Orks is so freaking boring, and maybe this will shake it up. At least a fast attack centric, infiltration style list sounds a lot more fun than just taking 120+ Ork Boyz.

I don't think the reaper change matters for Orks all that much, as no matter what, the enemy is probably getting Reaper on you anyway. Grots die in droves, and you still have to take a billion. If MANz or Gits give them up more quickly, so be it.

I do think Mek Gunz will probably need to be moved away from in ITC. Too easy for Kill More, gangbusters targets, etc. Plus they are a very uninteresting unit to field. I sort if you wish you could Tellyport them in, because it would be hilarious to drop like 6 smasha guns or 6 traktor kannons somewhere on turn 2.

I'm excited to see what people brew up in the new mission list.

Very good point about the Manz. It might actually be a bonus if you field Smashaguns, but, as you said, they bleed VP . I REALLY want kill more gone. Is just stupid and boring. Let's see what tomorrow brings and we can start to talk about new lists with PA.i got a tournament next week and 60boyz + 23 stormboyz is the only thing I could come up Vs IH meta

Problem with rokkit koptas is the actual price of the rokkits. My recomendation is to play them with the same rolle as bikers rather than tankbustas. Try a 5*with twin heavy shootas and use them to bully screens. The 2d3 s5 attacks in CC are decent and can clear one screen a turn. Add another with the 30 s5 shoots. And boom! Points back. A mere 150pts that can prove to be very annoying

Nora wrote:
Can you please confirm that it is accepted for passenger of a FreeBooter trukk to benefit from FreeBooter trait if they also are FreeBooter?

Officially rulewise yes. As a matter of fact passengers wouldn't have to be freeboota to benefit except you can't load non-freeboota unit into freeboota transport.

What your group's house rules say is another thing.

tneva82 wrote:

Nora wrote:
Can you please confirm that it is accepted for passenger of a FreeBooter trukk to benefit from FreeBooter trait if they also are FreeBooter?

Officially rulewise yes. As a matter of fact passengers wouldn't have to be freeboota to benefit except you can't load non-freeboota unit into freeboota transport.

What your group's house rules say is another thing.

This. The open topped rule transfers all modifiers to its passengers, irrespective of their source.

thanks for reply!

Nora wrote:
thanks for reply!

If your transport isn’t freebooter then it doesn’t receive the +1 to hit, so it has nothing to transfer. So you need to bring a freebooter detachment, it’s annoying really

addnid wrote:

Nora wrote:
thanks for reply!

If your transport isn’t freebooter then it doesn’t receive the +1 to hit, so it has nothing to transfer. So you need to bring a freebooter detachment, it’s annoying really

Well he was specifically asking for freeboota trukk so...

Afternoon guys, I played the most ridiculous game so far this edition.

We are playing a narrative campaign at my FLGS with an escalation element. I played my first game last night and....wow, it was one sided as all hell. Keep in mind we are starting at 500pts and going up to 2,000 with a 500pt increase each week.

I played against Ad Mech who brought along a tech priest of some sort, 3 of those walking robots and a dune crawler along with some random infantry.

I brought my character, a Big Mek with a SSAG, 3 squads of 10 grotz, 4 Mek Gunz (Smasha Guns) and 2 scrapjets.

The game literally ended halfway through turn 1. My opening salvo went as follows, my Mek Gunz killed his dunecrawler which gave everyone nearby +1 to hit (Freebootas) My Big Mek with SSAG killed all of his walkers, my 2 scrapjets killed his HQ and finished off most of his squad of infantry in cover. On his turn he had 4 infantry left standing.

Well for one Your army is hardly casual. And if there's not much terrain it's going to be largely you go first, you auto win.

Furthermore game is designed around 2k level and scales up and down very badly. Already shaky balance is totally off the tracks in smaller or bigger games.

Play with more terrain. Here you can't alpha strike that freely even in 2k game and in 500 pts there's lot less you need to be able to hide. If he could not hide even part of his army...well gosh that's why playing on planet bowling ball sucks.

To be fair, the ad mech guy would have probably done the same with his list if those robots would have gotten to shoot.

Maybe we are getting our MA warboss back?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/17/da-gatherin-waaaghgw-homepage-post-3/

 Jidmah wrote:
To be fair, the ad mech guy would have probably done the same with his list if those robots would have gotten to shoot.

Which just shows how desperately there needed to be more terrain. Or they should try the deployment style GW has had for like over year. One side deploys army first and goes first, other deploys second and goes second. That way if you go 2nd you can hide to avoid being tabled like that. Doing deploy first and then roll who goes first is just making games be decided on that roll.

T1 tables just should not happen. There's plenty of tools against that especially in true 40k(aka the way GW designed it) these days to ensure it can't happen. 500 pts more so.

tulun wrote:
Maybe we are getting our MA warboss back?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/17/da-gatherin-waaaghgw-homepage-post-3/

I havnt read the previous story articles so duno if they ever hint at whats coming, but if this hints at anything its that we may get a bunch of named characters, not a generic.
I already keep wishing for them to do the whole "collect them all" boxes for ork characters that theyve done with marines. Would be an easy to way to give us the absolute gakton of characters mentioned in lore but not present in the game.

That Pic ,Gorking 'ell , maybe its just the way its shot but Ghazz's Base Looks Huge. Thats gotta be a 80MM base don't you think?

We're getting Ghazz and Makari, and now you want all of our other Boss's and Characters? Good luck with that.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

tulun wrote:
Maybe we are getting our MA warboss back?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/17/da-gatherin-waaaghgw-homepage-post-3/

I havnt read the previous story articles so duno if they ever hint at whats coming, but if this hints at anything its that we may get a bunch of named characters, not a generic.
I already keep wishing for them to do the whole "collect them all" boxes for ork characters that theyve done with marines. Would be an easy to way to give us the absolute gakton of characters mentioned in lore but not present in the game.

I would kill for a Wazzdakka model. Nazdreg would be cool too. Each clan could do with at least 1 named character to be honest. Goffs and Deathskulls seem to have a bit of a monopoly at the mo.

Have a tournament in march and wanted to try my fun list against a top tier army today.
Mission, like in the tournament was eternal war + maelstrom. (Had the mission where 4 markers get 1 VP for you in your deployment zone, 2 VP euch the ones in the middle and 4VP for the one in your opponents deployment zone at the end of each battle round.

I had
Deathskulls: SSAG (sniper trait), SAG, 3 Dragsta, Wazbom, 30 grot
Bad Moons: 2 wyrdboys, 15 loota, 30 grot
Freebootaz: KFF, SAG, 10 gitz in trukk, Dakkajet, 30grots, 2 smashas

He had
IH successors: character Leviathan, Iron Stone techmarine, 2 Chap Dreads, stalker Intercessors, scouts
RG successors: assault Cents, jumppack Chaplain, Smashcaptain, Infiltrators
Dark Angels: Sammael on Corvex, Talonmaster, Intercessors
He spend 9 CP pregame on relics, traits etc.

Needless to say the list is a huge pain, but i wanted to test what my list could do.
Deployment was Hammer and anvil.

I tellyported the gitz and got to go first, he hid all his good stuff behind a large building, i was only able to kill some scouts and marines. 12 MW on 2 scouts with SSAG - yikes.
Jumped the freeboota SAG that got CS from the Dakkajet but sadly no hits. Wazbom shot on the Centurions with moar dakka, only got 3 wounds which he all saved...
1 dragsta triggered eternal duty on the levi to steal some CP, all damage got recovered by his master of the forge.
His first turn he stayed there, killed the 2 flyers and the jumped SAG. He also recovered his amazing screening and put some souts and marines on the 2 midfield objectives for 4 VP, which left turn 1 with 8:5 for him.

My second turn SSAG, SAG and smashas killed another 3 camping squads, jumped lootas used showing off & more dakka to kill... 2 scouts and 4 intercessors. Insane saving throws both his turns.
Dragstas jumped around and killed screening stuff and softly touched the levi again to steal CP. His screening and positioning was solid again, no chance to get to those Cents or his mech characters.
Thats why i held the gitz for turn 3. This time the other SAG managed to pull of 9 Mortal wounds + Damage to kill... 3 Intercessors. At least an upgrade.^^
He smoked the lootas and got another round of good Eternal War VP staying behind that damned ruin. Killed the 3 dragstas as well.
By the end of turn he took the lead with 14:8

My 3rd turn i ported the gitz in who did an amazing job of killing 1 scout and 2 intercessors. Smashas and SAG killed another 2 units of troops, SSAG tried its luck shooting the leviathan twice, which stood with 5 wounds remaining. Of course S4 and 7 against him with 0 mortal wounds.
He killed the trukk and the lootas, 1 smasha and half my grot after finally coming forward into the midfield.
Turn 3 ended with about 19:11 for him.

4th turn i ported the SAG, did nothing on those cents and SSAG failed vs Levi again. Smasha failed as well.
His turn the cents finally came into my deployment zone, killed 20 grot, his other stuff killed the other smasha and advanced mostly for the final strike.
At this point i had only the SSAG with 20 grot, 2 wyrdboys and KFF left and he was about 24:12 ahead.

Tournament rules are 20:0 if you get 20+ VP more, so my 5th turn i chose Kill the warlord, kill a character and scour the skies and ported my warlord into his (finally) broken screening, to use the sniper warlord trait to kill his jump pack chaplain warlord, which would have gotten me 5 VP. The game was lost but i didn`t want to go down 20:0.
Well the SSAG tried his best, but got laught at with 5 S4 shots, that actually managed to do 2 wounds which got both saved.
His turn 5 he tabled me and got a hell lot of points with his DA characters speeding forward and controlling all 6 markers turn 6.

Final score was about 40:12 which would have been a 20:0.
He really felt bad for his saving throws and got quite lucky with maelstrom as well, my cards were catastrophic from turn 3 on.
classic maelstrom, even with the new mission there can be bad games i guess.^^

Conclusion: He had amazing luck with his saves and all my extreme SSAG shooting phases had the worst possible timing, on top of that the mission with our deployment was a nightmare to play.
Might better have given him the first turn to deny that 4 VP points each turn for the 2 objectives midfield.
Lootas were a disappointment, also he deployed great so they had no viable targets. Without grotshield they die horribly. Would have been better to keep them back where they had good line of sight and prevented him leaving his LOS blocking ruin because most of my dakka had good midfield LOS.
Made a mistake with the gitz as well, would have been better to tellyport the truck behind another ruin, looking around the corner for gitz shooting and then disembark out of sight after the trukk got destroyed.
Gave him to cheap kills that way as and loosing them, the flyers and the jumping dragstas killed my dakka quite fast.
Those infiltrators + screening were a huge pain for tellyport & da jump.

Might throw the lootas out, they are great vs. many opponents but i hate how unflexible they are and how much they depend on their grot shield and the right table setup.
Really want to make a list without boys work for that tournament.

Maybe switch the lootas for tankbustas / more gitz / buggies / mek gunz?
Or simply go for the naut.
Against lots of long range antitank i can still tellyport a good amount of dakka and hide the rest.

 acme2468 wrote:
That Pic ,Gorking 'ell , maybe its just the way its shot but Ghazz's Base Looks Huge. Thats gotta be a 80MM base don't you think?

We're getting Ghazz and Makari, and now you want all of our other Boss's and Characters? Good luck with that.

The community article strongly hinted ghaz is in prime ork status... which should make him huge....
And honestly this sets the stage for GW to make bigger orks and refresh ork boyz in the future w new scar boyz models being slightly bigger orks.

And while I beleive we are only getting ghaz/Makari and a big Mek w kff I sure do hope we get a warboss in mega armor kit that can make multiple named characters.....plus new kommando/tankbusta kit.... and a wasdakka gutsmek/warboss in bike kit... and well you get the idea....

I'd be surprised as hell if boyz get any treatment in a long ass time.
Kommandoz and Tankbustas (which are technically boyz with special roles or toyz) need a kit purely because of crapcast. But the basic boy model is still pretty good, despite its age.
I'd wager about 80% of the codex needs an update before regular boyz need one.

tulun wrote:
Maybe we are getting our MA warboss back?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/17/da-gatherin-waaaghgw-homepage-post-3/

That's just a regular warboss with a helmet. Basically a mix between AOBR warboss or Grukk and the old big choppa warboss. Unless that's a never seen before artwork, I wouldn't read too much into it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I havnt read the previous story articles so duno if they ever hint at whats coming, but if this hints at anything its that we may get a bunch of named characters, not a generic.

The only thing of note was the mentioning of madboyz and a herd of weirdboyz that was driven towards the enemy. Everything else mentioned already has one or more dedicated models.
Nothing new about that though, it's basically a repeat of something we had in our fluff since forever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I would kill for a Wazzdakka model. Nazdreg would be cool too. Each clan could do with at least 1 named character to be honest. Goffs and Deathskulls seem to have a bit of a monopoly at the mo.

Deathskulls just have Grotznik though?
Goff is Thrakka, Zagstrukk and Buzzgob
Evil Suns have Zhardsnark
Blood Axes have Snikrot
Freebootas have Badrukk
Snakebites and Bad Moons got nothing because Nazdregg and Ol'Zogwort bit the dust. Thanks Obama! chapterhouse!

Originally, every clan had a named character, plus Thrakka as the big boss.

However, at this point I'd not be surprised if Wazzdakka came back as a model at some point. There are plenty of characters with model support that get mentioned less in the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I'd be surprised as hell if boyz get any treatment in a long ass time.
Kommandoz and Tankbustas (which are technically boyz with special roles or toyz) need a kit purely because of crapcast. But the basic boy model is still pretty good, despite its age.
I'd wager about 80% of the codex needs an update before regular boyz need one.

I also don't think there have been any replacements of plastic kits recently.

Sorry for the noob question but do bomb squigs and ammo runts take up transport spaces?

As they have stats and no rules saying otherwise yes. On flipside they are valid targets to kill off if stuff dies when transport dies

Ok great thanks!

I'm gonna test today the swap od tankbustas and battlewagon for smasha guns and 30 kommando with new itc rulws, lets see