VIGILUS Weekender - 24th november.. page#7 new minis

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**MajorWesJanson**

insaniak wrote:
skullking wrote:
Loving the new GSC bikers! Along with that new tactician, and the ‘masked gunslinger’, we’re getting some fun new models. Still holding out hope for a legit limo, but the aesthetic they seem to be following doesn’t look to be the ‘slick 30’s mobster’ feel, of the rogue trader era. Would be fun if they added that in though. Then we’d have the blue collar construction types, the road warrior bikers, and the snazzy gangsters. I’ll definitly employ some Delaque with a classed up ork dragster if GW won’t give me my uptown stealers.

Something more like a stretched Hummer or FJ cruiser, aesthetically, would probably work better than a limo with the current aesthetic. Big and flashy, but still rugged and industrial looking.

Mount a gun and some icons on a Hummer 2, and you are done already. Fits right in.

**Ice_can**

Suzuteo wrote:
The verb for inquisitor is "inquire," not "inquisite."

I actually think an Agents codex would be pretty straightforward. However, it definitely would have to come after the Sisters codex.

At its core would be a special detachment called an Inquisitorial Retinue. The Retinue is essentially a Battalion, but you are only allowed to have one such detachment. You also must take one and only one Inquisitor in it, and that Inquisitor must be your Warlord and must take a relic in addition to the one it already carries; two relics if it is a custom Inquisitor. The WLT and relics should both grant auras or powerful once-per-game effects.

You may then freely take any unit from the Agents codex, which should includes the Inquistors' usual suspects, Sisters of Silence, Officio Assassinorum, Ecclesiarchy, Scholastia Psykana, and maybe Arbites and gangers. None of these units have special chapter tactics-style rules. Also, depending on your Inquisitor's Ordo, you can add units to the Retinue from certain codexes. Ordo Malleus can take Grey Knights; Ordo Xenos can take Deathwatch; and Ordo Hereticus can take Sisters of Battle. These units can keep their chapter tactics as long as they all have the same chapter tactic. They can also freely use any of the stratagems from their respective codexes.

Yeah that's a big No to just bundling in Sisters of Silence to Inquisition.
Thats terrible treatment of a faction thats already been short changed once by GW because god forbid they be included ib a codex talons, nope had to be codex bling biker boys only.
It also removes a chance to actually bring less cheesey female faction into the game.
While Sister of battle next year is possibly a good thing for those that want it they do fallow the classic nuns with guns theme way to obviously.

**ERJAK**

Ice_can wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
The verb for inquisitor is "inquire," not "inquisite."

I actually think an Agents codex would be pretty straightforward. However, it definitely would have to come after the Sisters codex.

At its core would be a special detachment called an Inquisitorial Retinue. The Retinue is essentially a Battalion, but you are only allowed to have one such detachment. You also must take one and only one Inquisitor in it, and that Inquisitor must be your Warlord and must take a relic in addition to the one it already carries; two relics if it is a custom Inquisitor. The WLT and relics should both grant auras or powerful once-per-game effects.

You may then freely take any unit from the Agents codex, which should includes the Inquistors' usual suspects, Sisters of Silence, Officio Assassinorum, Ecclesiarchy, Scholastia Psykana, and maybe Arbites and gangers. None of these units have special chapter tactics-style rules. Also, depending on your Inquisitor's Ordo, you can add units to the Retinue from certain codexes. Ordo Malleus can take Grey Knights; Ordo Xenos can take Deathwatch; and Ordo Hereticus can take Sisters of Battle. These units can keep their chapter tactics as long as they all have the same chapter tactic. They can also freely use any of the stratagems from their respective codexes.

Yeah that's a big No to just bundling in Sisters of Silence to Inquisition.
Thats terrible treatment of a faction thats already been short changed once by GW because god forbid they be included ib a codex talons, nope had to be codex bling biker boys only.
It also removes a chance to actually bring less cheesey female faction into the game.
While Sister of battle next year is possibly a good thing for those that want it they do fallow the classic nuns with guns theme way to obviously.

What are you talking about? They don't follow the nuns with guns theme, they ARE the nuns with guns theme. Everyone else is following them.

And less cheesy? Are you talking about the mute skinheads with bane masks that freak normies out because they don't have souls? That's an emo 12 years old's crappy deviant art page, not an idea for a 'less cheesy' faction.

**Tavis75**

Were there any hints about when the Warbringer titan would be released (other than "soon", as mentioned on the community site)?

I'm kind of suspecting an initial release at the HH weekender with a general release a month or so later, but that does then put it at a release nearly 4 months after the reveal, though I guess that's not unheard of for FW stuff.

**Dudeface**

Tavis75 wrote:
Were there any hints about when the Warbringer titan would be released (other than "soon", as mentioned on the community site)?

I'm kind of suspecting an initial release at the HH weekender with a general release a month or so later, but that does then put it at a release nearly 4 months after the reveal, though I guess that's not unheard of for FW stuff.

Given current trends 4-5 months is spot on, also it'll likely be before any meaningful rules books.

**robbienw**

The latest Warhammer community article about the warbringer says it will be out in time for christmas

**oni**

CaptainBetts wrote:By going frame-by-frame through the Vigilus Defiant "trailer" book showcase, you can see an example of one of the new formation detachments - the Ork Blitz Brigade (Warlord Traits, Stratagems, etc.).
This is the video in question, from about 1:04 onwards: https://youtu.be/eqvsbgzzLKI

I consolidated all the Ork rules into a reddit post here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/a0evgb/by_going_framebyframe_through_the_vigilus_defiant/

What do people think? Powerful? Not worth it?

Formations and formation like detachments played a major role in ruining 7th edition W40K. I'm very disappointed to see things like this being used again, even if it's just for Narrative play. Just my $0.02.

**Kanluwen**

oni wrote:

Formations and formation like detachments played a major role in ruining 7th edition W40K. I'm very disappointed to see things like this being used again, even if it's just for Narrative play. Just my $0.02.

And the return to strictly Detachment based organization ruined my Skitarii. I welcome Formations returning if it means I can run Skitarii without fricking Techpriests again.

**skullking**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
insaniak wrote:
skullking wrote:
Loving the new GSC bikers! Along with that new tactician, and the ‘masked gunslinger’, we’re getting some fun new models. Still holding out hope for a legit limo, but the aesthetic they seem to be following doesn’t look to be the ‘slick 30’s mobster’ feel, of the rogue trader era. Would be fun if they added that in though. Then we’d have the blue collar construction types, the road warrior bikers, and the snazzy gangsters. I’ll definitly employ some Delaque with a classed up ork dragster if GW won’t give me my uptown stealers.

Something more like a stretched Hummer or FJ cruiser, aesthetically, would probably work better than a limo with the current aesthetic. Big and flashy, but still rugged and industrial looking.

Mount a gun and some icons on a Hummer 2, and you are done already. Fits right in.

Dear god, I hope you mean an actual military vehicle, and not an H2!? They can use those to take the little neophytes to soccer practice.

The original limos weren’t just classy, they looked rugged too. I think the point being to lure hive gangers in with all that bling. Though one of the original limos looks more 30’s mobster, the other feels more blinged out gangsta.

I’d assume it would be fast, but very low on armor. A really cheap transport for getting the mob across the board. Good for seizing objectives till the bigger ‘rugged’ vehicles can get there. You could convert some akira style bikers to accompany them.

I just figured if they can shift gears so much to add in the road warrior bikers, why not do the limo as well? The delaque REALLY look like GSC too.

Spoiler:

**changemod**

Kanluwen wrote:
oni wrote:

Formations and formation like detachments played a major role in ruining 7th edition W40K. I'm very disappointed to see things like this being used again, even if it's just for Narrative play. Just my $0.02.

And the return to strictly Detachment based organization ruined my Skitarii. I welcome Formations returning if it means I can run Skitarii without fricking Techpriests again.

You should probably stop bringing up in random contexts that you want to not take your factions HQ because of an arbitrary standard you’ve set as if you expect any level of sympathy.

I’d love a skitatii character from the perspective of having a cheaper HQ for smaller games and filling detachment requirements, but “I’m super upset I need to take tech priests in my admech army” is never going to be a coherent point.

**casvalremdeikun**

Kanluwen wrote:
oni wrote:

Formations and formation like detachments played a major role in ruining 7th edition W40K. I'm very disappointed to see things like this being used again, even if it's just for Narrative play. Just my $0.02.

And the return to strictly Detachment based organization ruined my Skitarii. I welcome Formations returning if it means I can run Skitarii without fricking Techpriests again.

My only concern is they are going to make us Skitarii (not Cult Mech) players pay CP just to have a Skitarii army. And given that Skitarii Alpha Primes exist in the fluff, I don't even know why we should not have an HQ in the first place. I suppose because people would never have a reason to buy a Techpriest ever again.

**Kanluwen**

changemod wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
oni wrote:

Formations and formation like detachments played a major role in ruining 7th edition W40K. I'm very disappointed to see things like this being used again, even if it's just for Narrative play. Just my $0.02.

And the return to strictly Detachment based organization ruined my Skitarii. I welcome Formations returning if it means I can run Skitarii without fricking Techpriests again.

You should probably stop bringing up in random contexts that you want to not take your factions HQ because of an arbitrary standard you’ve set as if you expect any level of sympathy.

I’d love a skitatii character from the perspective of having a cheaper HQ for smaller games and filling detachment requirements, but “I’m super upset I need to take tech priests in my admech army” is never going to be a coherent point.

You should probably read the comment I replied to before throwing your little "YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT!" hissyfit.

For the record though:
Skitarii were a fully fleshed out faction. Full. Stop. They were able to be fielded and played (fairly) effectively without needing huge amounts of Allies. They only really suffered against Eldar and GMCs(but that's not something they were alone in).
The same was not true of the dumpsterfire that was Cult Mechanicus. Cult had expensive Troops, expensive Elites, expensive Heavy Supports, and expensive HQs...and an army that got better with the more units on the table that had the army's special rule.

The point of a Skitarii HQ isn't "a cheaper HQ for smaller games and filling detachment requirements"(that already exists with the Techpriest Enginseer, which you'd know if you had a clue as to what you were talking about) but to allow for someone to field an all Skitarii army and to add an HQ choice that allows for Skitarii to get some synergy, no matter the Forge World one is playing. Right now, Stygies is more or less used as an 'Allied' Outrider Detachment with Sydonian Dragoons filling up the slots and Mars is the 'go to' because of Cawl and what he grants.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
oni wrote:

Formations and formation like detachments played a major role in ruining 7th edition W40K. I'm very disappointed to see things like this being used again, even if it's just for Narrative play. Just my $0.02.

And the return to strictly Detachment based organization ruined my Skitarii. I welcome Formations returning if it means I can run Skitarii without fricking Techpriests again.
My only concern is they are going to make us Skitarii (not Cult Mech) players pay CP just to have a Skitarii army.

At this point? It'd be a welcome change--especially if accompanied by a rule for Squadrons of Onagers since they've been so heavily neutered thanks to the rule of 3.

**casvalremdeikun**

I am with you there on the Onagers. Definitely would be a welcome change (I only have two Onagers currently, but I know plenty of people want more). And being able to skip out on a 100 pt model that doesn't even fit our army in the fluff would be fine by me, as long as the CP cost is not catastrophic (heck, the Formation bonus could be that it elevates one Skitarii Alpha to Character status and it can gain Warlord Traits).

Edit: *Gasp* I did a roll call of my Skitarii, and it appears I completely dreamed an Onager into existence because I only have one!

**ZebioLizard2**

Yodhrin wrote:
insaniak wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Luciferian wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to report on what you heard. It's kind of encouraging to hear that they kind of let the design team run things and just do what they think is cool.
Is that a good thing though?

The miniatures team shows up with a new Space Marine flyer that has Marines attached to the wings that it drops like bombs.

"Go write rules and fluff for this. It's coming out in 8 months."

I'm sure that's not how it works, but from the sounds of it miniatures call the shots, and the people writing the background have to march to their tune.

From snippets over the years, that's pretty much always how it's been, though, with the caveat that the accountants tend to jump in if they disagree strongly with the marketability of a given project, as supposedly was the case for so many years with Sisters.

Frankly, this is why FW with Alan Bligh calling most of the shots was the superior prospect for many - it was still driven by passion projects, but there was a more "integrated" approach with the fiction given something approaching equal billing and an eye squarely on the coherence of the final product.

Of course this is also a good example of the problems that occurred once he was no longer around. With him gone it seems FW ground to a halt to scramble for things.

**Tavis75**

robbienw wrote:
The latest Warhammer community article about the warbringer says it will be out in time for christmas

Gosh, that's sooner than expected! Good in some ways but thought I was going to have a few months to prepare my wallet! At least I got a free £20 FW gift voucher last week, that's about a third of an arm!

**BrookM**

Awwwwwwwwww yisss: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/26/to-kill-a-dark-kinggw-homepage-post-3/

Just like with Malign Portents, free short stories to flesh out Vigilus!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Very cool (didn't our clever assassin think about the name of the cult, the clue is right there)

Makes me think if only the Genestealers could break away from the Tyranids and go back to being what they were once before, independent and creepy rather than just a fragment of the hive mind

**AndrewGPaul**

Meh'Lindi wouldn't have missed.

**Yodhrin**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
insaniak wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Luciferian wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to report on what you heard. It's kind of encouraging to hear that they kind of let the design team run things and just do what they think is cool.
Is that a good thing though?

The miniatures team shows up with a new Space Marine flyer that has Marines attached to the wings that it drops like bombs.

"Go write rules and fluff for this. It's coming out in 8 months."

I'm sure that's not how it works, but from the sounds of it miniatures call the shots, and the people writing the background have to march to their tune.

From snippets over the years, that's pretty much always how it's been, though, with the caveat that the accountants tend to jump in if they disagree strongly with the marketability of a given project, as supposedly was the case for so many years with Sisters.

Frankly, this is why FW with Alan Bligh calling most of the shots was the superior prospect for many - it was still driven by passion projects, but there was a more "integrated" approach with the fiction given something approaching equal billing and an eye squarely on the coherence of the final product.
Of course this is also a good example of the problems that occurred once he was no longer around. With him gone it seems FW ground to a halt to scramble for things.

True, but that's not something that's inherent to the idea of a more "holistic" approach to the IP, it was the situation at FW because Alan was evidently handling the workload of several people(whether by choice or due to miserly funding from GWHQ I don't know). But you don't need one guy doing most of the work in order to have the fiction guys and the rules guys and the model guys actively collaborating, and occasionally putting the needs & desires of the model guys second to preserve the integrity of the IP.

**Danny76**

On the 80 days topic:

A) game time differs to ours, so could well take longer, so I wouldn’t want people getting too excited.

Having said that I do think it could be a tease, so...

B) 80 days from when? When this Vigilus book comes out it will presumably have the same fluff, he has 80 days to take the world. So that would be when to start counting no?
It seems everyone has jumped on last weekend to start the count.
Whereas I’m not so sure it’ll be as soon as Feb for Abaddon necessarily, though saying it like that, what else could be coming in that time after GSC, it must be him

**Insane Ivan**

Another piece of Vigilus fiction: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/27/tales-from-vigilus-02gw-homepage-post-3/

Not sure why the enemy here is Death Guard again instead of Black legion, though I suppose it was inevitable that Mortarion's Plague Bois would be coming to Vigilus too. Interesting that the Astar Militarum in the story are Valhallans, as GW hasn't sold any Valhallan models for months now - if only 't were a sign of a coming plastic kit... (But probably not.)

**Kdash**

Insane Ivan wrote:
Another piece of Vigilus fiction: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/27/tales-from-vigilus-02gw-homepage-post-3/

Not sure why the enemy here is Death Guard again instead of Black legion, though I suppose it was inevitable that Mortarion's Plague Bois would be coming to Vigilus too. Interesting that the Astar Militarum in the story are Valhallans, as GW hasn't sold any Valhallan models for months now - if only 't were a sign of a coming plastic kit... (But probably not.)

I agree, was wondering why Death Guard are the main “foe” in this story. I thought they were literally on the other side of the galaxy messing around with BobbyG in Ultramar etc.

UNLESS, it is Typhus? He has been missing for some time, so it could be a mini tie-in, but still, no idea why they’d use him, when there are so many other options available right now.

**Kanluwen**

We haven't gotten a Kill-Team set yet for Death Guard, so no real ideas what's happening on that front.

Hesitant guess is that this is their "arrival" to the warzone, with them potentially working with the Black Legion.

**Motograter**

To be fair calgar was defending ultramar last we heard of him yet he's now front and centre at vigilus so maybe him and the death guard have just moved on.

As for the 80 days well when the book drops would be day 1 you'd have to expect. It's very specific not to be something other than Abaddons arrival. Late Feb early March we should start seeing the new chaos hopefully

**fraser1191**

When did gathering storm start?

I feel like we can use that as a base point. I believe that was the first major release of that year

**Xenomancers**

warboss wrote:
For those of us not in the know re: the 8th edition rules, is the news of these upcoming detachments something akin to the formations back in 7th edition with gobs of special rules and such for no points costs? Or are they just like the modified force orgs they have in the 8th core book that just largely vary in how many command points you get?

Currently we have stratagems for abilities that only affect 1 unit. Examples of a good stratagem are like..."this unit can shoot twice this turn" for 3 CP "or this unit is -1 to hit this phase" for 2 CP. In other words - stratagems are very powerful in their own right. These "formation bonus" use the same resource as stratagems called command points (CP). So it sounds like formation bonus will be in the range of the cost of 3 stratagems. They will likely give you some sort of bonus all game.

**drazz**

My theory here:

Formations are coming and are going to give big bonuses. They will likely cost CP.

GW just said they want to get out of soup by offering bonuses to non-soup, rather than penalize soup lists and players.

(Guess) Formations will give their bonuses at a reduced cost for armies that are battle-forged and have no soup.

**Kanluwen**

drazz wrote:
My theory here:

Formations are coming and are going to give big bonuses. They will likely cost CP.

GW just said they want to get out of soup by offering bonuses to non-soup, rather than penalize soup lists and players.

(Guess) Formations will give their bonuses at a reduced cost for armies that are battle-forged and have no soup.

The formations costing CP was confirmed by people present at the event.

The refusal to penalize soup lists is infuriatingly confusing at this point though.

**Cephalobeard**

Kanluwen wrote:
drazz wrote:
My theory here:

Formations are coming and are going to give big bonuses. They will likely cost CP.

GW just said they want to get out of soup by offering bonuses to non-soup, rather than penalize soup lists and players.

(Guess) Formations will give their bonuses at a reduced cost for armies that are battle-forged and have no soup.

The formations costing CP was confirmed by people present at the event.

The refusal to penalize soup lists is infuriatingly confusing at this point though.

It's almost like it's intentional and fluffy, despite people not liking it for personal reasons.

**Yodhrin**

Kanluwen wrote:
drazz wrote:
My theory here:

Formations are coming and are going to give big bonuses. They will likely cost CP.

GW just said they want to get out of soup by offering bonuses to non-soup, rather than penalize soup lists and players.

(Guess) Formations will give their bonuses at a reduced cost for armies that are battle-forged and have no soup.

The formations costing CP was confirmed by people present at the event.

The refusal to penalize soup lists is infuriatingly confusing at this point though.

Not really. What the Balance Brigade have to grasp is that Soup is not an accident. Neither was Allies. GW want people crafting armies out of units from multiple factions, because it lets them make fluffy lists and - probably more importantly - increases the chance that people will keep buying stuff.

Once you accept the basic fact that GW want Soup to be as viable as any other option, and that interfering sufficiently with Soup to make it equivalent to or less powerful than monofaction armies would also likely wreck the entire point of Soup, layering on another mechanism to boost monofaction stuff instead isn't even remotely confusing, it's the most logical response given GW's position.

gak, just be glad it's not a few years ago, they wouldn't even be trying to level the playing field.