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 lindsay40k wrote:
Fun fact - if a Loyalist character is munching through your NMs in melee, you can use a Krak Grenade with Music of the Apocalypse - and it benefits from DttFE

"Angry krak grenade literally to angry to die, detonates a second time!!!! "



Automatically Appended Next Post:

drakerocket wrote:
I was considering just doing a knight conversion as a base to a kytan because I like the look of knights better. Can't imagine anyone would be too ticked about it since they're both in the same class.

Depends, needs to look like an overgrown Bloodthirsters though!

Keep in mind with Noise Marines, if they die in melee, they can't shoot any weapons into thier OWN combat (except for pistols). They can fire their weapons out of combat, at other targets, but they can't point-blank grenade people.

The rule that allows weapons to shoot in melee is on the weapon itself (like pistols). Music of the Apocalypse just allows them to fire weapons if they are in 1" on an enemy, it doesnt intrinsically allow them to target enemy units within 1" of them.

 McGibs wrote:
Keep in mind with Noise Marines, if they die in melee, they can't shoot any weapons into thier OWN combat (except for pistols). They can fire their weapons out of combat, at other targets, but they can't point-blank grenade people.

The rule that allows weapons to shoot in melee is on the weapon itself (like pistols). Music of the Apocalypse just allows them to fire weapons if they are in 1" on an enemy, it doesnt intrinsically allow them to target enemy units within 1" of them.

You mean if my Noisemarines die in the fightphase they can shoot out of their combat because "Shootingphaserules" and get Death to the false Emperor, but if they die in the Shootingphase they cannot shoot out of their combat.

That will be hell to explain it to the opponent.
It just feels like wrong.
Its a strong specialrule and this makes it even stronger.

They can shoot OUT of combat. They cannot shoot INTO combat (except with pistols).
It has nothing to do with which phase the unit is dying in.

The Music of the Apocalypse rule itself states: this unit can shoot even if an enemy unit is within 1" of it.

It does NOT say: this unit can shoot an enemy unit within 1" of it.

^ That specification is attached to the weapon itself, like pistols (which are allowed to shoot enemy units within 1")
What matters in phases is about targeting characters, which can only be targeted IN THE SHOOTING PHASE if they are closest unit. So if the noisemarines die in the fight phase, they can shoot characters even if they arent closest.

I feel like it's hard to do much of anything in a "friendly" game without your opponent getting all salted up. Sometimes people are cool, but more often than not they'll stop the game for 20 minutes while you show them rules, and still get mad at you when you are right.

I played a game against an IG player and tripointed two of his units with one tzaangor blob on turn one, only allowing him to shoot at cultists and a second blob. He got mad cuz he couldn't back out of combat, he got mad cuz of pile in and consolidate, and he got really mad when bloodletters came in with ap-3.

All this after telling me how good IG was against chaos and I shouldn't expect to have fun during the game.

Nature's Minister wrote:
I feel like it's hard to do much of anything in a "friendly" game without your opponent getting all salted up. Sometimes people are cool, but more often than not they'll stop the game for 20 minutes while you show them rules, and still get mad at you when you are right.

I played a game against an IG player and tripointed two of his units with one tzaangor blob on turn one, only allowing him to shoot at cultists and a second blob. He got mad cuz he couldn't back out of combat, he got mad cuz of pile in and consolidate, and he got really mad when bloodletters came in with ap-3.

All this after telling me how good IG was against chaos and I shouldn't expect to have fun during the game.

Well, he was right.... it doesnt sound like you had fun. Also he should not get mad because you played by the rules.... like getting mad that you remembered dttfe and thanks to that you killed something he really liked.

I suppose you are right. That is why I no longer really want to play pick up games anymore, and I tell people straight up I'm not playing a friendly list, but they don't listen and it's hard to get practice any other way.

Nature's Minister wrote:I feel like it's hard to do much of anything in a "friendly" game without your opponent getting all salted up. Sometimes people are cool, but more often than not they'll stop the game for 20 minutes while you show them rules, and still get mad at you when you are right.

congratulations, you've discovered the motivations of the majority of people who want "friendly" games. To be able to bitch about anything that beats them as being too unfriendly, while taking whatever they also think is good but not actually having the game knowledge or collection to build a quality list.

Literally anything somewhat decent, or any use of synergistic game mechanics is too much (nevermind if they are doing it too there's is balanced for some reason or other specific to their build or faction). I had a guy tell me a Tervigon is cheesy the other day.

I just no longer give a gak. I make fun builds and don't copy the meta, but I will still crush people if that's how the game goes and if they get salty I no longer care. It's a defense mechanism for their ego and I see right through it these days

 McGibs wrote:
They can shoot OUT of combat. They cannot shoot INTO combat (except with pistols).
It has nothing to do with which phase the unit is dying in.

The Music of the Apocalypse rule itself states: this unit can shoot even if an enemy unit is within 1" of it.

It does NOT say: this unit can shoot an enemy unit within 1" of it.

^ That specification is attached to the weapon itself, like pistols (which are allowed to shoot enemy units within 1")
What matters in phases is about targeting characters, which can only be targeted IN THE SHOOTING PHASE if they are closest unit. So if the noisemarines die in the fight phase, they can shoot characters even if they arent closest.

I’d like to clarify - they can shoot *within* combat and *out of* combat, but not *into* combat.

On an open plain, Noise Marine unit A is fighting in close combat with Tacitcal Squad B, and separately Berzerkers unit C is in close combat with Devastators unit D. Rhino E is parked in plain view of A, 6” away from them, and Librarian F is standing in plain view immediately behind.

CSM FAQ wrote:

Spoiler:

Q: Can a Noise Marine that is slain use his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot any viable target, or does it have to target the unit that killed him?
A: It can shoot at any viable target.
Q: If a Noise Marine is slain whilst its unit is within 1" of an enemy unit, can he use his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot the unit that is within 1"?
A: Yes, but only with a Pistol.
Q: If several Noise Marines are slain in the same attack, can they each use their Music of the Apocalypse ability to throw a grenade, or can only one of them do so?
A: Each of them can throw a grenade.
Q: If a Noise Marine is slain in the Fight phase, and he uses
his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot an Imperium unit and subsequently rolls a hit roll of 6+, does the Death to the False Emperor ability then grant him an extra attack with that weapon, even though it’s a ranged weapon?
A: Yes. In this situation, make an extra hit roll against the target on a hit roll of 6+.

As Tactical Squad B kill them, every dying member of Noise Marine unit A can do one of the following:
- fire their pistol at Tactical Squad B, benefitting from DttFE;
- shoot and gun or throw a grenade (they are within range, and any number of them can do this) at Rhino E, benefittting from DtfFE;
- shoot a gun (they are not within Grenade range) at Liberarian F, benefittting from DttFE. It is not the Shooting Phase, which is when Characters benefit from targeting restrictions, and until an FAQ specifies otherwise, we’re not treating this like a shooting phase. There’s a difference between ‘move’ and ‘move as if it were the movement phase’, and a difference between ‘shoot’ and ‘shoot as if it were the shooting phase’, and whilst GW have taken the time to reverse previous ruling about Warptime and made multiple rulings on Noise Marine semantics, they’ve not FAQ’d away this semantic -

BRB wrote:

Spoiler:

A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting.

- yet. (YET. Don’t spend a fortune on Noise Marines because the internet told you Blastmasters can be used as seppuku Krak Missile snipers.)

They can NOT shoot at Devastator unit D, because that unit is within 1” of one of your units and the Noise Marines are not involved in that fight:

BRB wrote:

Spoiler:

Models cannot target enemy units that are within 1" of friendly models – the risk of hitting your own troops is too great.

Further note on Character-shooting semantics:

Big FAQ 2 wrote:

Spoiler:

An enemy Character with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10 can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if it is both visible to the firing model and it is the closest enemy unit to the firing model.

It’s still very specific RAW that Characters’ proximity-based ultra void shield only works during the Shooting phase. Show an FAQ saying I’m resolving MotA shots as if were the Shooting phase, and then I’ll stop firing Blastmasters at Librarians with exploding 6’s.

Here is an updated list for a Tzeentch army I'm making. It's also in the Chaos Daemons thread:

Tzaangors (20, 18 with Tzaangor Blades, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Tzaangor Shaman (1, with Force Stave and Blade): 90
Tzaangor Enlightened (3, with Divining Spears and Blades): 48
Tzaangor Skyfires (3, with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5, 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons): 25
Kairic Cultists [treated exactly the same as regular Cultists] (10, with Brutal Assault Weapons): 50
Exalted Flamer (2): 140
Fateskimmer (2): 260
Changecaster (1): 65
Pink Horrors (12, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 109
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1): 275
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Character] (1): (with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave): 122
Chaos Space Marines [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (13) (with Boltguns): 130
Rubric Marines (10) (with Inferno Boltguns, one with Soulreaper Cannon): 193
Helbrute [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Twinlascannon and Missile Launcher): 120
Chaos Terminator Lord [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Reaper Autocannon and Lightning Claw): 113

Total points: 1,995

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Here is an updated list for a Tzeentch army I'm making. It's also in the Chaos Daemons thread:

Tzaangors (20, 18 with Tzaangor Blades, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Tzaangor Shaman (1, with Force Stave and Blade): 90
Tzaangor Enlightened (3, with Divining Spears and Blades): 48
Tzaangor Skyfires (3, with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5, 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons): 25
Kairic Cultists [treated exactly the same as regular Cultists] (10, with Brutal Assault Weapons): 50
Exalted Flamer (2): 140
Fateskimmer (2): 260
Changecaster (1): 65
Pink Horrors (12, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 109
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1): 275
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Character] (1): (with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave): 122
Chaos Space Marines [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (13) (with Boltguns): 130
Rubric Marines (10) (with Inferno Boltguns, one with Soulreaper Cannon): 193
Helbrute [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Twinlascannon and Missile Launcher): 120
Chaos Terminator Lord [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Reaper Autocannon and Lightning Claw): 113

Total points: 1,995

I think regular cultists are min 10 and you seem to have a 5 man unit there

Darksteve wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Here is an updated list for a Tzeentch army I'm making. It's also in the Chaos Daemons thread:

Tzaangors (20, 18 with Tzaangor Blades, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Tzaangor Shaman (1, with Force Stave and Blade): 90
Tzaangor Enlightened (3, with Divining Spears and Blades): 48
Tzaangor Skyfires (3, with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5, 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons): 25
Kairic Cultists [treated exactly the same as regular Cultists] (10, with Brutal Assault Weapons): 50
Exalted Flamer (2): 140
Fateskimmer (2): 260
Changecaster (1): 65
Pink Horrors (12, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 109
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1): 275
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Character] (1): (with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave): 122
Chaos Space Marines [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (13) (with Boltguns): 130
Rubric Marines (10) (with Inferno Boltguns, one with Soulreaper Cannon): 193
Helbrute [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Twinlascannon and Missile Launcher): 120
Chaos Terminator Lord [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Reaper Autocannon and Lightning Claw): 113

Total points: 1,995

I think regular cultists are min 10 and you seem to have a 5 man unit there

I can always put them in the same unit with the Kairics as they are essentially the same thing in 40K.

Anyway, here is my new list:

Tzaangors (20) (18 with Tzaangor Blades, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Tzaangor Shaman (1) (with Force Stave and Blade): 90
Tzaangor Enlightened (3) (with Divining Spears and Blades): 48
Tzaangor Skyfires (3) with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5) 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons): 25
Kairic Cultists [treated the same as regular Cultists] (12, with Brutal Assault Weapons): 60
Exalted Flamer (2): 140
Fateskimmer (2): 260
Changecaster (1): 65
Pink Horrors (30) 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 235
Blue Horrors (30): 150
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1): 275
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Character] (1): (with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave): 122
Rubric Marines (20) (with Inferno Boltguns, one with Soulreaper Cannon): 190
Helbrute (1) [Thousand Sons] (with Twinlascannon and Missile Launcher): 120

Total points: 1,996

I'm wondering if I should replace one of the Exalted Flamers with a Scarab Occult Terminator. Also, I'm up in the air about whether I want to keep the Blue Horrors unit due to toughness, or have two Brimstone units for greater numbers.

I'm currently running a 1,000 points list against a friend who plays Tau. I tried out this line up last game and struggled quite a bit. I've been playing around with a lot of unit combinations, but it's been a real struggle to have any success.

HQ

Daemon Prince with Wings
* Mark of Slaanesh
* Malefic Talons
* Death Hex, Warp Time

Elites

Noise Marines
* 7 with Sonic Blasters
* 2 Blast Masters
* Champion with Power Sword, Sonic Blasters and Doom Siren

(In the last two games I've played, these have been by far the most useful)

Troops

Chaos Cultists
Usually around 30, sometimes more. Sometimes I'll stick heavy stubbers in

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikes
* 2 Bikes with Flamers
* Champion with Combi-flamer

Chaos Spawn
* 3 Spawn

Heavy Support
Predator
* 2 Las Cannons
* Twin Linked Las Cannon
* Havoc Launcher

I've got a pretty wide selection of models to switch out stuff with, but I don't have much in the way of access to new units (I've no real ability to start buying Forge World Drop Pods, for example). In addition to what's been listed.

 blood reaper wrote:
I'm currently running a 1,000 points list against a friend who plays Tau. I tried out this line up last game and struggled quite a bit. I've been playing around with a lot of unit combinations, but it's been a real struggle to have any success.

HQ

Daemon Prince with Wings
* Mark of Slaanesh
* Malefic Talons
* Death Hex, Warp Time

Elites

Noise Marines
* 7 with Sonic Blasters
* 2 Blast Masters
* Champion with Power Sword, Sonic Blasters and Doom Siren

(In the last two games I've played, these have been by far the most useful)

Troops

Chaos Cultists
Usually around 30, sometimes more. Sometimes I'll stick heavy stubbers in

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikes
* 2 Bikes with Flamers
* Champion with Combi-flamer

Chaos Spawn
* 3 Spawn

Heavy Support
Predator
* 2 Las Cannons
* Twin Linked Las Cannon
* Havoc Launcher

I've got a pretty wide selection of models to switch out stuff with, but I don't have much in the way of access to new units (I've no real ability to start buying Forge World Drop Pods, for example). In addition to what's been listed.

Spoiler:

* A Leviathan dreadnought. Has a magantised arm so he can be given a Butcher Cannon or two Siege Claws

* About 6 Chosen with Power Fists

* 20ish Generic CSMs, 9 of whom who can be used with combi-bolters

* 11 Chosen with Plasma Guns

* 5 Warp Talons

* 7 Plague Marines, 2 with Plasma Gun, Champion with Plasma Gun and Power Fist

* 4 CSMs with Las Cannons

* 4 with Missile Launchers

* 8 Khorne Bezerkers, with an assortment of weapons

* 11 Raptors

* 9 Rubrics, 5 with Warp Flamers, 4 with Inferno Bolters, 1 Aspiring Sorcerer

* 3 Chaos Spawn

* A Rhino

I've been experimenting with this to some success at 1k:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [66 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: 2. Flames of Spite, Blade of the Hydra, Chainsword, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne, Warlord

Sorcerer [6 PL, 100pts]: Combi-bolter, Force sword, Infernal Gaze, Mark of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Weaver of Fates

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Space Marines [5 PL, 75pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 105pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought [14 PL, 198pts]: Butcher cannon array, Greater havoc launcher, Nurgle, Twin heavy bolter

Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought [14 PL, 198pts]: Butcher cannon array, Greater havoc launcher, Twin heavy bolter, Tzeentch

++ Total: [66 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Hmmm, I am really struggling hard to come up with ways to cope with my friend's army. Has a lot of IG shooting, along with a sister's batallion and an imperial knight Gallant.

It doesn't look as threatening as a Castellan (which he tried before). But it saves him points he can use elsewhere. And that Gallant is still a 4++ going to 3++ with raise ion shields. Its more a distraction carnefix, its a massive model that has to be dealt with or it wll wreck havoc on whatever it touches.

And IG has enough bodies and shooting to be threatening, especially if I also have to worry about the 3++ imperial knight. His sister's batallion gives his center a 4++ bubble too.

I am experimenting with mixing in chao daemons with my CSM (fight soup with soup), but well, even with using the cheaper chaos daemon troops with their invul saves, its still an uphill task. He can brings lots of mortars and hide them behind cover (or just cannot be seen) since his mortars and Basilisk don't need line of sight.

If you death hex the knight it will die very quickly to havoc fire. If you want to garuntee this happens your best bet is to ally in a supreme command detachment of thousand sons with arhiman and some sorcerers on disks. Move all 3 up, use the strat for +2 to cast giving arhiman +3 to cast death hex, that should do it. Or hit him with a khorne patrol detachment of bloodletters, 26 should do it, and a herald. Give the herald the blood crown relic so 6's to wound generate additional attacks, upgrade the bloodletters to have the 3d6 charge banner, and drop them in t2. They should tear the knight appart no matter the save.

As for guard themselves it depends on what kind of army he is running. Does he take infantry? Tanks? Are they russes or artillery? More info is needed there but a large blob of 40 cultists hanging around with a sorcerer with delightful agonies and Abandon can do some serious work and take a pounding.

He brings, Basilisks, mortar teams and Pask, and infantry of course. So, enough bubble wrap to make deep strike difficult and unlikely to pull off. Both Basilisks and mortar teams don't need line of sight, so he can just keep them in deep cover. If I can't see them, then I can't target them.

The mortar teams plus his other shooting can kill a team of 40 cultists, especially if he goes first. I tried this on him before, now he knows he must kill all 40.

 blood reaper wrote:
I'm currently running a 1,000 points list against a friend who plays Tau. I tried out this line up last game and struggled quite a bit. I've been playing around with a lot of unit combinations, but it's been a real struggle to have any success.

Spoiler:

HQ

Daemon Prince with Wings
* Mark of Slaanesh
* Malefic Talons
* Death Hex, Warp Time

Elites

Noise Marines
* 7 with Sonic Blasters
* 2 Blast Masters
* Champion with Power Sword, Sonic Blasters and Doom Siren

(In the last two games I've played, these have been by far the most useful)

Troops

Chaos Cultists
Usually around 30, sometimes more. Sometimes I'll stick heavy stubbers in

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikes
* 2 Bikes with Flamers
* Champion with Combi-flamer

Chaos Spawn
* 3 Spawn

Heavy Support
Predator
* 2 Las Cannons
* Twin Linked Las Cannon
* Havoc Launcher

I've got a pretty wide selection of models to switch out stuff with, but I don't have much in the way of access to new units (I've no real ability to start buying Forge World Drop Pods, for example). In addition to what's been listed.

Spoiler:

* A Leviathan dreadnought. Has a magantised arm so he can be given a Butcher Cannon or two Siege Claws

* About 6 Chosen with Power Fists

* 20ish Generic CSMs, 9 of whom who can be used with combi-bolters

* 11 Chosen with Plasma Guns

* 5 Warp Talons

* 7 Plague Marines, 2 with Plasma Gun, Champion with Plasma Gun and Power Fist

* 4 CSMs with Las Cannons

* 4 with Missile Launchers

* 8 Khorne Bezerkers, with an assortment of weapons

* 11 Raptors

* 9 Rubrics, 5 with Warp Flamers, 4 with Inferno Bolters, 1 Aspiring Sorcerer

* 3 Chaos Spawn

* A Rhino

Hmm. Have you tried getting Prescience cast on your Noise Marines and comboing Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony? Your Rubric unit leader could quite happily stand as a Sorcerer. Might be worth trading Spawn and Prince for a Lord and Sorc. If you took your Cultists as three units, that’d also yield 5CP. If you like a Cultist horde, an alternative could be to switch out the Bikers and take CSM units with las or mis?

Also, what’s your Legion?

 lindsay40k wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I'm currently running a 1,000 points list against a friend who plays Tau. I tried out this line up last game and struggled quite a bit. I've been playing around with a lot of unit combinations, but it's been a real struggle to have any success.

Spoiler:

HQ

Daemon Prince with Wings
* Mark of Slaanesh
* Malefic Talons
* Death Hex, Warp Time

Elites

Noise Marines
* 7 with Sonic Blasters
* 2 Blast Masters
* Champion with Power Sword, Sonic Blasters and Doom Siren

(In the last two games I've played, these have been by far the most useful)

Troops

Chaos Cultists
Usually around 30, sometimes more. Sometimes I'll stick heavy stubbers in

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikes
* 2 Bikes with Flamers
* Champion with Combi-flamer

Chaos Spawn
* 3 Spawn

Heavy Support
Predator
* 2 Las Cannons
* Twin Linked Las Cannon
* Havoc Launcher

I've got a pretty wide selection of models to switch out stuff with, but I don't have much in the way of access to new units (I've no real ability to start buying Forge World Drop Pods, for example). In addition to what's been listed.

Spoiler:

* A Leviathan dreadnought. Has a magantised arm so he can be given a Butcher Cannon or two Siege Claws

* About 6 Chosen with Power Fists

* 20ish Generic CSMs, 9 of whom who can be used with combi-bolters

* 11 Chosen with Plasma Guns

* 5 Warp Talons

* 7 Plague Marines, 2 with Plasma Gun, Champion with Plasma Gun and Power Fist

* 4 CSMs with Las Cannons

* 4 with Missile Launchers

* 8 Khorne Bezerkers, with an assortment of weapons

* 11 Raptors

* 9 Rubrics, 5 with Warp Flamers, 4 with Inferno Bolters, 1 Aspiring Sorcerer

* 3 Chaos Spawn

* A Rhino

Hmm. Have you tried getting Prescience cast on your Noise Marines and comboing Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony? Your Rubric unit leader could quite happily stand as a Sorcerer. Might be worth trading Spawn and Prince for a Lord and Sorc. If you took your Cultists as three units, that’d also yield 5CP. If you like a Cultist horde, an alternative could be to switch out the Bikers and take CSM units with las or mis?

Also, what’s your Legion?

I'll try out using Prescience and VOTLW with Endless Cacophony. I'll also try switching out the Bikers, since so far they've really struggled to do anything.

I've been switching between Renegades and Iron Warriors, though I've been interested in trying out the Alpha Legion trait.

 blood reaper wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I'm currently running a 1,000 points list against a friend who plays Tau. I tried out this line up last game and struggled quite a bit. I've been playing around with a lot of unit combinations, but it's been a real struggle to have any success.

Spoiler:

HQ

Daemon Prince with Wings
* Mark of Slaanesh
* Malefic Talons
* Death Hex, Warp Time

Elites

Noise Marines
* 7 with Sonic Blasters
* 2 Blast Masters
* Champion with Power Sword, Sonic Blasters and Doom Siren

(In the last two games I've played, these have been by far the most useful)

Troops

Chaos Cultists
Usually around 30, sometimes more. Sometimes I'll stick heavy stubbers in

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikes
* 2 Bikes with Flamers
* Champion with Combi-flamer

Chaos Spawn
* 3 Spawn

Heavy Support
Predator
* 2 Las Cannons
* Twin Linked Las Cannon
* Havoc Launcher

I've got a pretty wide selection of models to switch out stuff with, but I don't have much in the way of access to new units (I've no real ability to start buying Forge World Drop Pods, for example). In addition to what's been listed.

Spoiler:

* A Leviathan dreadnought. Has a magantised arm so he can be given a Butcher Cannon or two Siege Claws

* About 6 Chosen with Power Fists

* 20ish Generic CSMs, 9 of whom who can be used with combi-bolters

* 11 Chosen with Plasma Guns

* 5 Warp Talons

* 7 Plague Marines, 2 with Plasma Gun, Champion with Plasma Gun and Power Fist

* 4 CSMs with Las Cannons

* 4 with Missile Launchers

* 8 Khorne Bezerkers, with an assortment of weapons

* 11 Raptors

* 9 Rubrics, 5 with Warp Flamers, 4 with Inferno Bolters, 1 Aspiring Sorcerer

* 3 Chaos Spawn

* A Rhino

Hmm. Have you tried getting Prescience cast on your Noise Marines and comboing Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony? Your Rubric unit leader could quite happily stand as a Sorcerer. Might be worth trading Spawn and Prince for a Lord and Sorc. If you took your Cultists as three units, that’d also yield 5CP. If you like a Cultist horde, an alternative could be to switch out the Bikers and take CSM units with las or mis?

Also, what’s your Legion?

I'll try out using Prescience and VOTLW with Endless Cacophony. I'll also try switching out the Bikers, since so far they've really struggled to do anything.

I've been switching between Renegades and Iron Warriors, though I've been interested in trying out the Alpha Legion trait.

Cool. AL will probably be pretty decent - T’au don’t want to get within 12” of Chaos, and you’ll take 33% fewer Marker Lights. I play a lot of 1K games, and I’ve found the extra CP from a Battalion - or even a Vanguard or Spearhead - to be pretty critical. It’s the difference between a reroll on a key psychic power not affecting a VotLW-EC combo, and even opening the door to doing it again.

Bikers can be decent in smaller games - especially if the table size is also small - but it’s situational and can be very Trait dependent. If your opponent’s not screened well, they can potentially run over three support characters... but that’s a big ‘if’.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
He brings, Basilisks, mortar teams and Pask, and infantry of course. So, enough bubble wrap to make deep strike difficult and unlikely to pull off. Both Basilisks and mortar teams don't need line of sight, so he can just keep them in deep cover. If I can't see them, then I can't target them.

The mortar teams plus his other shooting can kill a team of 40 cultists, especially if he goes first. I tried this on him before, now he knows he must kill all 40.

Bring a Khorne Daemon detachment of a daemon prince with skullreaver relic and 20 or 30 bloodletters. Skullreaver prince will munch his gallant usually in 1 turn of combat and at least take 16 or so wounds off him. Bloodletters are hell for a gunline especially those that are light on anti infantry.
By shooting at his gallant you're falling unto his trap and leaving his gunline alone. Which for him is a great way to spend 350 points and a couple of CP.
If you want to only use CSM then mutilators just got much cheaper or a large blob of khorne bezerkers with VotLW and chain axes will also do a decent job.

just an update for everyone, me and my mate went to the doubles tournament and came first with out chaos list.

1st:: Death Guard/Renegades and heretics, Thousand sons
2nd: Tau/Tyranids
3rd: Double Orks IIRC

I took

Vanguard detachment
Ahirman on disc
2 x Hellbrute with fists
2 x contemptors with fists, combi bolters
1 x Decimator siege engine with soulburner petard and fist
Renegades and heretics brigade
Company commander
company commander
10 mutants
10 mutants
10 mutants

My Partner took
Nurgle prince with wings
Leviathan with dual butchers
Leviathan with dual Butchers
Doredeo with extoplasma cannons
10 cultists for... reasons im not sure of ??

Our first game was against Eldar/Necrons, we pulled an easy win, our 2nd was a world Eaters/Thousand sons list with Ahirman and Kharn, they conceded end of turn 4 and last game was .... imperial soup, mechanicus, custodes jetbikes lords, chaos alpha legion with lots of guns, they conceded end of our turn 4

 small_gods wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
He brings, Basilisks, mortar teams and Pask, and infantry of course. So, enough bubble wrap to make deep strike difficult and unlikely to pull off. Both Basilisks and mortar teams don't need line of sight, so he can just keep them in deep cover. If I can't see them, then I can't target them.

The mortar teams plus his other shooting can kill a team of 40 cultists, especially if he goes first. I tried this on him before, now he knows he must kill all 40.

Bring a Khorne Daemon detachment of a daemon prince with skullreaver relic and 20 or 30 bloodletters. Skullreaver prince will munch his gallant usually in 1 turn of combat and at least take 16 or so wounds off him. Bloodletters are hell for a gunline especially those that are light on anti infantry.
By shooting at his gallant you're falling unto his trap and leaving his gunline alone. Which for him is a great way to spend 350 points and a couple of CP.
If you want to only use CSM then mutilators just got much cheaper or a large blob of khorne bezerkers with VotLW and chain axes will also do a decent job.

I will try your suggestion. I actually did deep strike in with 20 blood letters in that game I played. But they failed their charge when I rolled a 7 on 3d6 ... And he has 6 mortars shooting as well so he has lots of anti infantry weapons. I just find IG infantry really irritating to remove with shooting. I had a big squad of horrors shooting and I still managed to only dent two 10 man infantry squad. (He used a strategem to give them a 4+ save but I also used a spell to give mine 2+ to wound, plus I had a change castor nearby so I considered it even). But even if I had managed to remove both squads (which I failed to do so), I used a 210 point unit plus hero support to remove 2 units that in total only cost 80 points. Just to have an idea, I brought 4 squads of nurglings (12) and after first turn, he had killed it down to 2 squads of 1 and 2 models each). So his anti infantry shooting was formidable.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
He brings, Basilisks, mortar teams and Pask, and infantry of course. So, enough bubble wrap to make deep strike difficult and unlikely to pull off. Both Basilisks and mortar teams don't need line of sight, so he can just keep them in deep cover. If I can't see them, then I can't target them.

The mortar teams plus his other shooting can kill a team of 40 cultists, especially if he goes first. I tried this on him before, now he knows he must kill all 40.

Bring a Khorne Daemon detachment of a daemon prince with skullreaver relic and 20 or 30 bloodletters. Skullreaver prince will munch his gallant usually in 1 turn of combat and at least take 16 or so wounds off him. Bloodletters are hell for a gunline especially those that are light on anti infantry.
By shooting at his gallant you're falling unto his trap and leaving his gunline alone. Which for him is a great way to spend 350 points and a couple of CP.
If you want to only use CSM then mutilators just got much cheaper or a large blob of khorne bezerkers with VotLW and chain axes will also do a decent job.

I will try your suggestion. I actually did deep strike in with 20 blood letters in that game I played. But they failed their charge when I rolled a 7 on 3d6 ... And he has 6 mortars shooting as well so he has lots of anti infantry weapons. I just find IG infantry really irritating to remove with shooting. I had a big squad of horrors shooting and I still managed to only dent two 10 man infantry squad. (He used a strategem to give them a 4+ save but I also used a spell to give mine 2+ to wound, plus I had a change castor nearby so I considered it even). But even if I had managed to remove both squads (which I failed to do so), I used a 210 point unit plus hero support to remove 2 units that in total only cost 80 points. Just to have an idea, I brought 4 squads of nurglings (12) and after first turn, he had killed it down to 2 squads of 1 and 2 models each). So his anti infantry shooting was formidable.

7 on a 3d6 such a pain! I usually deepstrike my skulltaker with 20 of them. So they're still hitting on 2s or get my DP nearby so at least they're rerolling crappy charge rolls like that!

Yeah guard can be a pain but i normally leave guardsmen alone so i can focus on mortar teams and other easy targets. If he's hiding and screening everything well you could try deepstriking oblitorators and horrors. That should clear them fairly well and you only need to get within 18"/24"

 Formosa wrote:
just an update for everyone, me and my mate went to the doubles tournament and came first with out chaos list.

1st:: Death Guard/Renegades and heretics, Thousand sons
2nd: Tau/Tyranids
3rd: Double Orks IIRC

I took

Vanguard detachment
Ahirman on disc
2 x Hellbrute with fists
2 x contemptors with fists, combi bolters
1 x Decimator siege engine with soulburner petard and fist
Renegades and heretics brigade
Company commander
company commander
10 mutants
10 mutants
10 mutants

My Partner took
Nurgle prince with wings
Leviathan with dual butchers
Leviathan with dual Butchers
Doredeo with extoplasma cannons
10 cultists for... reasons im not sure of ??

Our first game was against Eldar/Necrons, we pulled an easy win, our 2nd was a world Eaters/Thousand sons list with Ahirman and Kharn, they conceded end of turn 4 and last game was .... imperial soup, mechanicus, custodes jetbikes lords, chaos alpha legion with lots of guns, they conceded end of our turn 4

Company Commanders? Also what you took was a battalion not a brigade.

well did the 5 cp atleast come in handy?

I get battlion and brigade mixed up all the time, and yep those 5cp were very very helpful, mostly for keeping ahirman alive, re rolls and swapping powers when needed.

Might be mixing up the name of the company commanders but that's basically Thier statline without orders of course, these and the mutants were just to hold down OBS anyway, the dreads and ahirman did most of the killking, ahirman even somehow killing a custodes captain on a bike that fluffed all its saves after charging.

 Formosa wrote:
I get battlion and brigade mixed up all the time, and yep those 5cp were very very helpful, mostly for keeping ahirman alive, re rolls and swapping powers when needed.

Might be mixing up the name of the company commanders but that's basically Thier statline without orders of course, these and the mutants were just to hold down OBS anyway, the dreads and ahirman did most of the killking, ahirman even somehow killing a custodes captain on a bike that fluffed all its saves after charging.

Did you reroll Mutation throws?

Has anyone used a Hell Talon before? It is the big FW bomber. I got one for christmas and am using it for the first time this weekend. How should I go about using it? Is there any "best" bomb of the 3 choices?

 vaklor4 wrote:
Has anyone used a Hell Talon before? It is the big FW bomber. I got one for christmas and am using it for the first time this weekend. How should I go about using it? Is there any "best" bomb of the 3 choices?

First: lucky you.

Secondly,the bombs differ in target choice.
If you expect blobs, get yourself pyrax bombs and wipe it.

Shatter charges are kinda the allrounder it seems, not to mention that 6d6 mortal wounds on 3 + seem like a good way of removing a knight, or seriously hurting it

Warp pulse bombs could be very interesting against monster squads, or if you want to lower the aim and leadership. Altough, seems to be the iffiest out of it.

I'd take shatter charges.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I get battlion and brigade mixed up all the time, and yep those 5cp were very very helpful, mostly for keeping ahirman alive, re rolls and swapping powers when needed.

Might be mixing up the name of the company commanders but that's basically Thier statline without orders of course, these and the mutants were just to hold down OBS anyway, the dreads and ahirman did most of the killking, ahirman even somehow killing a custodes captain on a bike that fluffed all its saves after charging.

Did you reroll Mutation throws?

nope, didnt know I could, most games they just got +1 attack anyway, a couple got +2 move, which only came into play in the last game when they made a mad dash to an objective in the centre of the board.

in hindsight I think traitor guard would be better for that army, but again its just for holding down obs, so its neither here nor there.