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Not Online!!! wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

Heafstaag wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:
Damnit, the Purge trait is rerolling to hits, which is so much worse than rerolling wounds that I initially thought. Ughhhhhhh.... Probably not worth giving up VOTLW in that case. What a shame, I really did like it when I thought it was rerolling wounds!

You're joking right? The Purge "re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by units with this trait that target enemy units that have lost one or more wounds already this turn" is probably the best of the Renegades, I'd argue that it's going to be the one we see in competitive builds. I ran it in a list with Contemptors and Oblits to try it out and my opponent was shocked at how powerful it was.

If you like re-rolling wounds then Arch-contaminator Death Guard are exactly that, super fun & powerful too IMO and experience.

I mean, sticking them beside a Chaos Lord/DP gives them rerolling 1s, already, so you are basically only getting rerolling 2s on the purge units. This is at the cost of losing VOTLW. I guess it depends on how you run your army and I could very well be wrong, but I think i'd rather stick an HQ near my guns and have access to another legion trait and/or VOTLW. Not to mention you do have to turn on your Legion trait. The Purge is fine, but it is just worse than what I thought is all

On first read it sounds good sure... but if you really think about it it's bonkers good if you're clever about your shooting and how you put wounds on units. Sure some stuff will be 2+ to hit but most is 3+ or 4+ in Chaos armies so already it doubles the Lord effectiveness, that stuff that has a 2+ probably degrades too as it takes damage and the game goes on... Because Purge helps there too. On the Lord, forget him, you don't need him now and you don't need to worry about keeping units within his 6" bubble either. This is big because now we can take other HQs that buff in other ways. Sure you won't get VOTLW but now you can take a Sorcerer with Death Hex, Warptime, Prescience, etc who also uses Smite to get a wound on a unit that you'll be shooting in the next phase (and re-rolling all hits). Also, as of now the Purge can be Slaanesh, so your Terminators or chaincannon Havocs can possibly shoot twice re-rolling all hits. Slaanesh Purge Terminators with a Terminator Sorcerer could be insanely brutal.
In melee re-roll all hits means you can fish for 5+/6+s to get extra attacks from DTTFE too if needs be.

Slaanesh purged? They are a nurgle warband.

And gw did not fix then to a mark, so what.

...Well I'm sure that will be fixed soon. Also, it butchers the narrative...its like having slaanesh thousand sons. Doesn't make sense.

So what gw butchered the narrative quite often.
Also like the typo situation, stop making me laugh.

Quoted from Vigilus Ablaze: "If your chosen Renegade Chapter does not have an associated Renegade Trait, you can instead pick the trait that you think best represents your army."

To me, this basically means that my Void Reavers CSM have the exact same trait as The Purge without actually being The Purge. Also, Void Reavers host raptorial outrider detachments just so happen to adopt a fighting style almost identical to the Flawless Host. Oh, and the souforged pack spearhead detachments fight just like the Brazen Beasts.
God-specific goes out of the window. I don't think GW is going to 'fix' this. Rather, this our recipe book for making delicious soup.

Snugiraffe wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

Heafstaag wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:
Damnit, the Purge trait is rerolling to hits, which is so much worse than rerolling wounds that I initially thought. Ughhhhhhh.... Probably not worth giving up VOTLW in that case. What a shame, I really did like it when I thought it was rerolling wounds!

You're joking right? The Purge "re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by units with this trait that target enemy units that have lost one or more wounds already this turn" is probably the best of the Renegades, I'd argue that it's going to be the one we see in competitive builds. I ran it in a list with Contemptors and Oblits to try it out and my opponent was shocked at how powerful it was.

If you like re-rolling wounds then Arch-contaminator Death Guard are exactly that, super fun & powerful too IMO and experience.

I mean, sticking them beside a Chaos Lord/DP gives them rerolling 1s, already, so you are basically only getting rerolling 2s on the purge units. This is at the cost of losing VOTLW. I guess it depends on how you run your army and I could very well be wrong, but I think i'd rather stick an HQ near my guns and have access to another legion trait and/or VOTLW. Not to mention you do have to turn on your Legion trait. The Purge is fine, but it is just worse than what I thought is all

On first read it sounds good sure... but if you really think about it it's bonkers good if you're clever about your shooting and how you put wounds on units. Sure some stuff will be 2+ to hit but most is 3+ or 4+ in Chaos armies so already it doubles the Lord effectiveness, that stuff that has a 2+ probably degrades too as it takes damage and the game goes on... Because Purge helps there too. On the Lord, forget him, you don't need him now and you don't need to worry about keeping units within his 6" bubble either. This is big because now we can take other HQs that buff in other ways. Sure you won't get VOTLW but now you can take a Sorcerer with Death Hex, Warptime, Prescience, etc who also uses Smite to get a wound on a unit that you'll be shooting in the next phase (and re-rolling all hits). Also, as of now the Purge can be Slaanesh, so your Terminators or chaincannon Havocs can possibly shoot twice re-rolling all hits. Slaanesh Purge Terminators with a Terminator Sorcerer could be insanely brutal.
In melee re-roll all hits means you can fish for 5+/6+s to get extra attacks from DTTFE too if needs be.

Slaanesh purged? They are a nurgle warband.

And gw did not fix then to a mark, so what.

...Well I'm sure that will be fixed soon. Also, it butchers the narrative...its like having slaanesh thousand sons. Doesn't make sense.

So what gw butchered the narrative quite often.
Also like the typo situation, stop making me laugh.

Quoted from Vigilus Ablaze: "If your chosen Renegade Chapter does not have an associated Renegade Trait, you can instead pick the trait that you think best represents your army."

To me, this basically means that my Void Reavers CSM have the exact same trait as The Purge without actually being The Purge. Also, Void Reavers host raptorial outrider detachments just so happen to adopt a fighting style almost identical to the Flawless Host. Oh, and the souforged pack spearhead detachments fight just like the Brazen Beasts.
God-specific goes out of the window. I don't think GW is going to 'fix' this. Rather, this our recipe book for making delicious soup.

Yes this pretty much sums it up.

Salt donkey wrote:
So I just got a my first game in with 3 x lord discordants. Honestly they preformed up to my high expectations, which is a good overall sign for their usefulness. Let me go into specifics

Durability: as expected this is his weakest area. 12 2+ 5++ wounds is enough to protect him from a stiff breeze, but dedicated firepower will wipe out Lord Discordants. I used the +1 wound 6+++ warlord trait on 1 guy as I was running red Corsairs over black legion for the CP, but now I’m seriously considering black legion even though I lose CP.

Offense: the lord discordant hits like a truck. I played knights today and he is certainly up to killing them. Daemon forge re-rolls plus 5+ death to false emporer triggers ensure the lord pumps out tons of attacks that will hit and wound fairly constantly. Even more so with buffs like diabloc strength, virluent touch, and Elixir. Point for point there isn’t anything as Efficient at killing as a lord discordant.

Speed: lord discordants are fast. You already knew this.

So if you get around the lord’s durbitly issues, he is well worth it. I think you’ll always have to run 3, and you’ll want something else to draw fire away from them (primarchs, Kitan, knight/, etc). Overall anyway you can increase the lord discordants ability to survive is a good thing as he wrecks face with only a little help.

I guess if we want to go with LD and not be BL, the FNP WT or at the very least a -1 to be hit DA prayer is a strong play, especially if we’re not keen on taking loads of the same character

If your budget, hobby pace, or mindset only allow for one LD and you want fast Daemon Engines, give him an endurance WT and a Warpsmith the Soulforged one

 lindsay40k wrote:


If your budget, hobby pace, or mindset only allow for one LD and you want fast Daemon Engines, give him an endurance WT and a Warpsmith the Soulforged one

I'm glad you posted this. I was beginning to get the impression that I was the only one who hadn't found the big bargain basket full of LDs...

Guys I've been tempted to run a Black Legion/ Daemon combined army for super fluffy Aspiring BL Chaos Lord starting to pick up momentum for his own crusade.

Now do the Chaos Daemon Heralds Locus ability (+1 str to daemons with same mark) WORK on the CSM daemon units? (demon engines, daemon units like oblits and warp talons?)

And vise versa do CSM buffs which target something with a specific mark also affect Chaos Daemon units?

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Guys I've been tempted to run a Black Legion/ Daemon combined army for super fluffy Aspiring BL Chaos Lord starting to pick up momentum for his own crusade.

Now do the Chaos Daemon Heralds Locus ability (+1 str to daemons with same mark) WORK on the CSM daemon units? (demon engines, daemon units like oblits and warp talons?)

And vise versa do CSM buffs which target something with a specific mark also affect Chaos Daemon units?

MARK and DEITY are mostly interchangeable once the game begins. They’re a specific exeption to the ‘you may well give your Craftworld and Coven the same name, but they’re still not on speaking terms’ rule. So:

Chaos Daemons: all aura buffs that affect <MARK/DEITY> DAEMON units can benefit Astartes; Stratagems that create such auras need to be generated by a CD unit (a World Eaters Greater Possessed cannot be the origin of a Locus of Wrath).

CSM DP: aura buff affects all <MARK/DEITY> DAEMON units, regardless of origin

CSM GrPo: aura buff only affects <MARK> <LEGION> DAEMON units; a new variation on buffs that’s going to complicate Daemonkin lists

What is the Flawless Host trait again? I’m considering some FH Daemon Princes with a couple small infantry blocks, so I’m curious.

Found it on 1d4chan. So basically...Magnus, Mortarion, Kytan Ravager, two Flawless Host Daemon Princes and minimum sized Flawless Host Marine squads to be a CP battery. Add in “field commander” to the Flawless Host Princes and watch blended hilarity ensue. Will be about 2k in points, maybe a bit less.

Death to the False Emperor against everything. It also stacks with DttFE so you still do more damage against Imperium.

I'm loving the look of the Lord Discordant but I can't bring myself to run more than 1, and I don't think running 1 on it's own would be effective. I might have to kitbash a Warpsmith for my Soulforged Pack.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What is the Flawless Host trait again? I’m considering some FH Daemon Princes with a couple small infantry blocks, so I’m curious.

Found it on 1d4chan. So basically...Magnus, Mortarion, Kytan Ravager, two Flawless Host Daemon Princes and minimum sized Flawless Host Marine squads to be a CP battery. Add in “field commander” to the Flawless Host Princes and watch blended hilarity ensue. Will be about 2k in points, maybe a bit less.

FH trait is generate one additional attack in close combat for every 6+ to hit you roll. This stacks with DttFE. It's extra cool fun on a DP with the FH warlord trait, as the WT turns the one additional attack to three additional attacks. Get your +1s from prescience and the Dark Apostle (if you can get him to keep up) and enjoy the added fun the FH strat gives you (re-roll all hit rolls in CC). Unfortunately, this does mean you need to make the FH DP the warlord. And you can only get the +3 on one model. Not sure it will really stand out much in your Daemon Primarch party.
I like the idea of the FH prince, but I'm beginning to think it's more of a party trick for smaller games.

What about that field commander ability for 1CP? Use it for both princes and have two field commanders smashing face.

lindsay40k wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
Thanks, guys, so possessed it is. I was just worried that people might find them to big compared to the new GPs. The Gellerpox Hulks are already planned as Greater Possessed for my Death Guard, so I will build some other flavour of GPs for my Word Bearers. Maybe a Khornate one based on the AoS Warboss.

It’s my understanding that you can’t take any of the Daemonkin stuff as DG (or, for that matter, TS)

Platuan4th wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
Thanks, guys, so possessed it is. I was just worried that people might find them to big compared to the new GPs. The Gellerpox Hulks are already planned as Greater Possessed for my Death Guard, so I will build some other flavour of GPs for my Word Bearers. Maybe a Khornate one based on the AoS Warboss.

It’s my understanding that you can’t take any of the Daemonkin stuff as DG (or, for that matter, TS)

This is correct. None of the new stuff can use Death Guard or Thousand Sons to replace <Legion>.

Ok, I meant "the Greater Possessed that are totally not part of the Death Guard but like to hang out with the not-Death Guard bikers and Lord on bike that I made from parts of dozens of kits in a labour of love only to be dropped by GW when DG got a codex, as well as the Terminator sorcerer I used left-over Deathshroud bits on and the havoc fire support squad I'll do with those tasty new missile launchers...and stuff"

My DG are a splinter warband that broke from the Legion, led by a guy who might be a former Deathshroud and the only reason Mortarion hasn't put the boot in so far is the fact that they managed to corrupt some small warbands from IW stock during a campaign and that ticks Perturabo off even more than Mortarion himself is.

Together with their R&H support I don't even know how to build that army anymore. On the flip side I have a chance to ally some monstrous Oblits now and chose between a billion traits for those not-DG guys.

Together with their R&H support I don't even know how to build that army anymore.

By buying the FW astra militarum index, and despairing, until you realise that you can spam your elites and mortar teams.
To get a halfway (actually that is a lie nearly halfway) decent list.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What about that field commander ability for 1CP? Use it for both princes and have two field commanders smashing face.

The field commander stratagem only lets you choose warlord traits that are specific to a specialist detachment (like the host raptorial one for a 7" charge for jump pack units, or the 2" movement bonus for daemon engines in the soulforged pack).
No multiple 'true' warlord traits for anyone who isn't Black Legion

Not Online!!! wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

Heafstaag wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:
Damnit, the Purge trait is rerolling to hits, which is so much worse than rerolling wounds that I initially thought. Ughhhhhhh.... Probably not worth giving up VOTLW in that case. What a shame, I really did like it when I thought it was rerolling wounds!

You're joking right? The Purge "re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by units with this trait that target enemy units that have lost one or more wounds already this turn" is probably the best of the Renegades, I'd argue that it's going to be the one we see in competitive builds. I ran it in a list with Contemptors and Oblits to try it out and my opponent was shocked at how powerful it was.

If you like re-rolling wounds then Arch-contaminator Death Guard are exactly that, super fun & powerful too IMO and experience.

I mean, sticking them beside a Chaos Lord/DP gives them rerolling 1s, already, so you are basically only getting rerolling 2s on the purge units. This is at the cost of losing VOTLW. I guess it depends on how you run your army and I could very well be wrong, but I think i'd rather stick an HQ near my guns and have access to another legion trait and/or VOTLW. Not to mention you do have to turn on your Legion trait. The Purge is fine, but it is just worse than what I thought is all

On first read it sounds good sure... but if you really think about it it's bonkers good if you're clever about your shooting and how you put wounds on units. Sure some stuff will be 2+ to hit but most is 3+ or 4+ in Chaos armies so already it doubles the Lord effectiveness, that stuff that has a 2+ probably degrades too as it takes damage and the game goes on... Because Purge helps there too. On the Lord, forget him, you don't need him now and you don't need to worry about keeping units within his 6" bubble either. This is big because now we can take other HQs that buff in other ways. Sure you won't get VOTLW but now you can take a Sorcerer with Death Hex, Warptime, Prescience, etc who also uses Smite to get a wound on a unit that you'll be shooting in the next phase (and re-rolling all hits). Also, as of now the Purge can be Slaanesh, so your Terminators or chaincannon Havocs can possibly shoot twice re-rolling all hits. Slaanesh Purge Terminators with a Terminator Sorcerer could be insanely brutal.
In melee re-roll all hits means you can fish for 5+/6+s to get extra attacks from DTTFE too if needs be.

Slaanesh purged? They are a nurgle warband.

And gw did not fix then to a mark, so what.

...Well I'm sure that will be fixed soon. Also, it butchers the narrative...its like having slaanesh thousand sons. Doesn't make sense.

So what gw butchered the narrative quite often.
Also like the typo situation, stop making me laugh.

The factions are meant to represent styles, not necessarily specific groups (unless you personally want it to for your army.) Hell you could paint your dudes blue, call them The Spank Monkeys and use iron legion rules. This allows people to make their own chapters/warbands ECT. And if that isn't obvious enough it's even written in the rules that you can do that. I would never force someone or play with anyone who thought paint scheme dictated rules.

To me the only good way to run 1 lord discordant is...

Black legion warlord w/ half damage trait
Artifact that decreases its bs by 1 to increase its weapons dmg by 1.
Baleflamer because d6 18" autohitting str 6 3 flat dmg attacks is nasty as gak vs so many different armies....


It becomes an incredibly dangerous and powerful unit with crazy levels of speed and durability. An opponent who doesnt known what it is will learn quickly and if they do they will target it quickly. Give it mark of nurgle, put a sorcerer on bike and a dark apostle near it to give it -1 to hit if you dont go first, -2 if you do, and run it with venom crawlers and defilers. Profit and enjoy.

Hmm. RAW, Flawless Host’s Death to the False Everyone isn’t buffed by Icon of Excess. Given their vanilla allegiance is Slaaneshi, I’d like to ask anyone with the inclination to drop 40kfaqs a line about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
To me the only good way to run 1 lord discordant is...

Black legion warlord w/ half damage trait
Artifact that decreases its bs by 1 to increase its weapons dmg by 1.
Baleflamer because d6 18" autohitting str 6 3 flat dmg attacks is nasty as gak vs so many different armies....


It becomes an incredibly dangerous and powerful unit with crazy levels of speed and durability. An opponent who doesnt known what it is will learn quickly and if they do they will target it quickly. Give it mark of nurgle, put a sorcerer on bike and a dark apostle near it to give it -1 to hit if you dont go first, -2 if you do, and run it with venom crawlers and defilers. Profit and enjoy.

Yeah, my army is from a Word Bearers Forge world and I’m getting one, but not expecting it to get much use outside of smaller games where it can conceivably survive a TAC army’s firepower, or Cities of Death games with plenty of LOS blocking terrain.

The artifact increases AP by 1, not Damage.

Anyone fancy running a Lord Discordant with the 2" extra movement warlord trait and Warptiming him into the enemy turn 1? He'd move 14" twice, if you run the run-and-charge relic he can run an additional 3.5" for a 31.5" move before charge rolls turn 1. That's pretty fast for something that ridiculously killy, especially if you add something like an allied Tzaangor bomb.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Anyone fancy running a Lord Discordant with the 2" extra movement warlord trait and Warptiming him into the enemy turn 1? He'd move 14" twice, if you run the run-and-charge relic he can run an additional 3.5" for a 31.5" move before charge rolls turn 1. That's pretty fast for something that ridiculously killy, especially if you add something like an allied Tzaangor bomb.

Moving 12” twice is perfectly fine to get in the enemy’s face, and when doing so I’d prefer to focus on endurance. That means either BL WT to halve damage, or loads of -1’s to be hit, or Fiends of Slaanesh forcing a screen to be your human shields.

The strength of the +2” aura is in getting a cavalcade of giant death robots up the board, and the best multipliers for that will be:
- the aura bearer surviving to T2 so it can give them a total of +4” (easily doable on a Warpsmith who makes use of LOS blocking against snipers and advances on T2 to be wishing shouting distance of the mechs) (also this enables an endurance WT LD to go ahead and trot 28”)
- Gnarlmaw or Daemons of Slaanesh enabling those that roll high on their Advances to charge on T1
- using Warptime on the slower elements of a horde (Defilers, low Advancers) to keep the tsunami hitting as a crushing wave
- using it with Warptime and -1 prayer to launch a Lord of Skulls or Kytan

Also please note the advance + charge thing is a Stratagem, not Relic. If you’re going to Boromir with a LD, give it the serpents

Danny slag wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

Heafstaag wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:
Damnit, the Purge trait is rerolling to hits, which is so much worse than rerolling wounds that I initially thought. Ughhhhhhh.... Probably not worth giving up VOTLW in that case. What a shame, I really did like it when I thought it was rerolling wounds!

You're joking right? The Purge "re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by units with this trait that target enemy units that have lost one or more wounds already this turn" is probably the best of the Renegades, I'd argue that it's going to be the one we see in competitive builds. I ran it in a list with Contemptors and Oblits to try it out and my opponent was shocked at how powerful it was.

If you like re-rolling wounds then Arch-contaminator Death Guard are exactly that, super fun & powerful too IMO and experience.

I mean, sticking them beside a Chaos Lord/DP gives them rerolling 1s, already, so you are basically only getting rerolling 2s on the purge units. This is at the cost of losing VOTLW. I guess it depends on how you run your army and I could very well be wrong, but I think i'd rather stick an HQ near my guns and have access to another legion trait and/or VOTLW. Not to mention you do have to turn on your Legion trait. The Purge is fine, but it is just worse than what I thought is all

On first read it sounds good sure... but if you really think about it it's bonkers good if you're clever about your shooting and how you put wounds on units. Sure some stuff will be 2+ to hit but most is 3+ or 4+ in Chaos armies so already it doubles the Lord effectiveness, that stuff that has a 2+ probably degrades too as it takes damage and the game goes on... Because Purge helps there too. On the Lord, forget him, you don't need him now and you don't need to worry about keeping units within his 6" bubble either. This is big because now we can take other HQs that buff in other ways. Sure you won't get VOTLW but now you can take a Sorcerer with Death Hex, Warptime, Prescience, etc who also uses Smite to get a wound on a unit that you'll be shooting in the next phase (and re-rolling all hits). Also, as of now the Purge can be Slaanesh, so your Terminators or chaincannon Havocs can possibly shoot twice re-rolling all hits. Slaanesh Purge Terminators with a Terminator Sorcerer could be insanely brutal.
In melee re-roll all hits means you can fish for 5+/6+s to get extra attacks from DTTFE too if needs be.

Slaanesh purged? They are a nurgle warband.

And gw did not fix then to a mark, so what.

...Well I'm sure that will be fixed soon. Also, it butchers the narrative...its like having slaanesh thousand sons. Doesn't make sense.

So what gw butchered the narrative quite often.
Also like the typo situation, stop making me laugh.

The factions are meant to represent styles, not necessarily specific groups (unless you personally want it to for your army.) Hell you could paint your dudes blue, call them The Spank Monkeys and use iron legion rules. This allows people to make their own chapters/warbands ECT. And if that isn't obvious enough it's even written in the rules that you can do that. I would never force someone or play with anyone who thought paint scheme dictated rules.

Exactly. I really want to run a Possessed melee list for fun casual games, I’ll prob use purge or flawless host rules for them depending on which I fancy. I’m not going to collect a whole new pink/purple Slaanesh army just to try different rules. GW already gets enough of my monthly pay packet as is!

Snugiraffe wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

Heafstaag wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:
Damnit, the Purge trait is rerolling to hits, which is so much worse than rerolling wounds that I initially thought. Ughhhhhhh.... Probably not worth giving up VOTLW in that case. What a shame, I really did like it when I thought it was rerolling wounds!

You're joking right? The Purge "re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by units with this trait that target enemy units that have lost one or more wounds already this turn" is probably the best of the Renegades, I'd argue that it's going to be the one we see in competitive builds. I ran it in a list with Contemptors and Oblits to try it out and my opponent was shocked at how powerful it was.

If you like re-rolling wounds then Arch-contaminator Death Guard are exactly that, super fun & powerful too IMO and experience.

I mean, sticking them beside a Chaos Lord/DP gives them rerolling 1s, already, so you are basically only getting rerolling 2s on the purge units. This is at the cost of losing VOTLW. I guess it depends on how you run your army and I could very well be wrong, but I think i'd rather stick an HQ near my guns and have access to another legion trait and/or VOTLW. Not to mention you do have to turn on your Legion trait. The Purge is fine, but it is just worse than what I thought is all

On first read it sounds good sure... but if you really think about it it's bonkers good if you're clever about your shooting and how you put wounds on units. Sure some stuff will be 2+ to hit but most is 3+ or 4+ in Chaos armies so already it doubles the Lord effectiveness, that stuff that has a 2+ probably degrades too as it takes damage and the game goes on... Because Purge helps there too. On the Lord, forget him, you don't need him now and you don't need to worry about keeping units within his 6" bubble either. This is big because now we can take other HQs that buff in other ways. Sure you won't get VOTLW but now you can take a Sorcerer with Death Hex, Warptime, Prescience, etc who also uses Smite to get a wound on a unit that you'll be shooting in the next phase (and re-rolling all hits). Also, as of now the Purge can be Slaanesh, so your Terminators or chaincannon Havocs can possibly shoot twice re-rolling all hits. Slaanesh Purge Terminators with a Terminator Sorcerer could be insanely brutal.
In melee re-roll all hits means you can fish for 5+/6+s to get extra attacks from DTTFE too if needs be.

Slaanesh purged? They are a nurgle warband.

And gw did not fix then to a mark, so what.

...Well I'm sure that will be fixed soon. Also, it butchers the narrative...its like having slaanesh thousand sons. Doesn't make sense.

So what gw butchered the narrative quite often.
Also like the typo situation, stop making me laugh.

Quoted from Vigilus Ablaze: "If your chosen Renegade Chapter does not have an associated Renegade Trait, you can instead pick the trait that you think best represents your army."

To me, this basically means that my Void Reavers CSM have the exact same trait as The Purge without actually being The Purge. Also, Void Reavers host raptorial outrider detachments just so happen to adopt a fighting style almost identical to the Flawless Host. Oh, and the souforged pack spearhead detachments fight just like the Brazen Beasts.
God-specific goes out of the window. I don't think GW is going to 'fix' this. Rather, this our recipe book for making delicious soup.

You can always choose to use difference chapter tactics- paint scheme doesn't really matter so people with their own paint schemes can play what they want.

However, the flawless host have been a Slaanesh dedicated warband for quite some time. I think when I started in 5 edition they were a slaanesh warband. I don't think having khorne marked flawless host guys is going to last long, and I personally wouldn't do it- even though you could have really cool combos!

Hopefully questions about the new renegade chapter's mark restrictions will be answered soon. Its seems apparent in the fluff that the Flawless Host are Slaanesh. Brazen Beasts are khorne, Scourged are Tzeentch, and the Purged are Nurgle. I think its an oversight that those restrictions aren't in the codex/campaign book.

However, until its fixed (if it is ever fixed), I wouldn't be too bothered by someone having berzerkers in a flawless host list, for example. I'd furrow my brow and keep playing.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Also please note the advance + charge thing is a Stratagem, not Relic. If you’re going to Boromir with a LD, give it the serpents

There's the Codex Khorne relic that lets you charge after advancing and gives rerolls to charge. The +2" trait can also be taken without making the Lord Discordant your Warlord. It does give him an awful lot of defense though.

Has anyone actually used the Proteus Pattern FW guns on their Havocs yet as stand-in Reapers? I'm a pretty mediocre hobbyist but I worry about their compatibility. That said, Reapers are going for $12-15 a piece on Ebay which is just offensively stupid.

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Kuklops wrote:

gruyere wrote:

Damnit, the Purge trait is rerolling to hits, which is so much worse than rerolling wounds that I initially thought. Ughhhhhhh.... Probably not worth giving up VOTLW in that case. What a shame, I really did like it when I thought it was rerolling wounds!

You're joking right? The Purge "re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by units with this trait that target enemy units that have lost one or more wounds already this turn" is probably the best of the Renegades, I'd argue that it's going to be the one we see in competitive builds. I ran it in a list with Contemptors and Oblits to try it out and my opponent was shocked at how powerful it was.

If you like re-rolling wounds then Arch-contaminator Death Guard are exactly that, super fun & powerful too IMO and experience.

I mean, sticking them beside a Chaos Lord/DP gives them rerolling 1s, already, so you are basically only getting rerolling 2s on the purge units. This is at the cost of losing VOTLW. I guess it depends on how you run your army and I could very well be wrong, but I think i'd rather stick an HQ near my guns and have access to another legion trait and/or VOTLW. Not to mention you do have to turn on your Legion trait. The Purge is fine, but it is just worse than what I thought is all

On first read it sounds good sure... but if you really think about it it's bonkers good if you're clever about your shooting and how you put wounds on units. Sure some stuff will be 2+ to hit but most is 3+ or 4+ in Chaos armies so already it doubles the Lord effectiveness, that stuff that has a 2+ probably degrades too as it takes damage and the game goes on... Because Purge helps there too. On the Lord, forget him, you don't need him now and you don't need to worry about keeping units within his 6" bubble either. This is big because now we can take other HQs that buff in other ways. Sure you won't get VOTLW but now you can take a Sorcerer with Death Hex, Warptime, Prescience, etc who also uses Smite to get a wound on a unit that you'll be shooting in the next phase (and re-rolling all hits). Also, as of now the Purge can be Slaanesh, so your Terminators or chaincannon Havocs can possibly shoot twice re-rolling all hits. Slaanesh Purge Terminators with a Terminator Sorcerer could be insanely brutal.
In melee re-roll all hits means you can fish for 5+/6+s to get extra attacks from DTTFE too if needs be.

Reroll to hit versus reroll to wound and which is more worthwhile comes down to which part of the shooting phase tends to result in more failed dice rolls.

If you start your shooting with X shots, without any sort of reroll to hit you will lose 1/3 of your shots to misses. With a reroll to hit you gain back 2/3 of that third... or in other words you lose 1/6 of you dice to misses and have 5/6*X to wound rolls.

In the case of having rerolls to wound you have 2/3*X to wound rolls.

Hh = 5/6*X
Hw = 2/3*X

Lets consider the to wound chart, where we have 5 conditions that dictate odds.
A. If 2T >= S then 1/6 of the successful hits cause wounds
B. If T>S<2T then 1/3 of the successful hits cause wounds
C. If T=S then 1/2 of the successful hits cause wounds
D. If S>T<2S then 2/3 of the successful hits cause wounds
E. If 2S>T then 5/6 of the successful hits cause wounds



The resulting wounds when you have reroll to hits vs the resulting wounds from when you have reroll to wounds for an equal number of dice to roll to hit:
A. 15/108*X < 22/108*X
B. 30/108*X < 40/108*X
C. 45/108*X < 54/108*X
D. 60/108*X < 64/108*X
E. 75/108*X > 70/108*X

In this way we can see in all but the case where you're shooting with a high strength weapon against a low toughness target a reroll to wound has a bigger positive impact than a reroll to hit. Its simply because there is greater likelihood of losing dice from your starting number of dice when rolling to wound.

 McGibs wrote:
Slaughterers dont need much help from Lord Discordants, but the advance/charge strat helps a tonne for their auto 6" advance. Berserkers in a termite has been a staple of my lsits for a while, and it always performs awesomely. Just start it on the table, otherwise deepstriking+charging can leave them out of the fight for way too long.

I can back this. In my experience you get the most mileage with renegade aka red corsair for the advance and charge threat. With the 32mm base added to the 3" deployment + the 6+d6" move and then the 2d6" charge with a reroll from the icon you can stifle the entire middle of the table as your opponent will want nothing to do with getting hit by them You essentially create a ~27" threat radius from the termite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xirax wrote:
Have to say that a Red Corsairs 10man csm squad with 2x RCC, bolters and combi-bolter on champion with, MoS is a decent screen/shield drone removal unit with " there's more where they came from" and endless cacocphony strat. Yes it's 4cp total, but at T1 it has proven really valuable. Anyone else have any similar success?

That actually eats up 5 CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Also please note the advance + charge thing is a Stratagem, not Relic. If you’re going to Boromir with a LD, give it the serpents

There's the Codex Khorne relic that lets you charge after advancing and gives rerolls to charge. The +2" trait can also be taken without making the Lord Discordant your Warlord. It does give him an awful lot of defense though.

Correct, I played a test game with my 3 LD. (I kitbashed 2 from demon engine parts) One had the talisman of burning blood, another had the +2" movement WLT and used the stratagem to advance and charge and the third one I warp times for double movement. All three made it in turn 1.

I don't think you can give a relic from one codex to a unit from another codex.

To be more precise, you can only give relics from the codex chaos daemons to units with the daemon faction keyword. Check the codex chaos daemons FAQ.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Has anyone actually used the Proteus Pattern FW guns on their Havocs yet as stand-in Reapers? I'm a pretty mediocre hobbyist but I worry about their compatibility. That said, Reapers are going for $12-15 a piece on Ebay which is just offensively stupid.

I used two Space Crusade assault cannons plus the old heavy bolter ammo belt. Nobody's complained so far. I stuck them in regular CSM squads.

 p5freak wrote:
I don't think you can give a relic from one codex to a unit from another codex.

To be more precise, you can only give relics from the codex chaos daemons to units with the daemon faction keyword. Check the codex chaos daemons FAQ.

Talisman of burning blood is from the CSM codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xirax wrote:
Have to say that a Red Corsairs 10man csm squad with 2x RCC, bolters and combi-bolter on champion with, MoS is a decent screen/shield drone removal unit with " there's more where they came from" and endless cacocphony strat. Yes it's 4cp total, but at T1 it has proven really valuable. Anyone else have any similar success?

That actually eats up 5 CP.

Quick bit of help; can I take two heavy weapons in a squad of ten CSM? Or is it one heavy, one special like regular marines? My copy of the codex is in the room where my wife is sleeping, and I don’t want to wake her up over something this trivial. Trying to see if I can arm the squad I’m building now with two chain guns or if I’m stuck with only one.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Quick bit of help; can I take two heavy weapons in a squad of ten CSM? Or is it one heavy, one special like regular marines? My copy of the codex is in the room where my wife is sleeping, and I don’t want to wake her up over something this trivial. Trying to see if I can arm the squad I’m building now with two chain guns or if I’m stuck with only one.

You can go with two chaincannons
Both of the two Chaos Space Marines who get the option in a 10-man+ squad can choose either a special or a heavy weapon. Because Chaos is badass.