Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
That seems to be the correct interpretation ~ every other player and Battlescribe reads the rules that way. That said, from page 168 from Vigilus Ablaze:

"This model can chant prayers. It knows the Dark Zealotry prayer and one prayer from the Prayers to the Dark Gods."

So let's check the prayers to the dark gods:

"Before the battle, generate the prayers for Priests that can chant prayers from Prayers to the Dark Gods... a <Mark of Chaos> Priest that can chant prayers from the Prayers to the Dark Gods also knows the appropriate <Mark of Chaos> prayer on the right."

So when I first read that, I thought you got Dark Zealotry, one Prayer to the Dark God, and also the <Mark of Chaos> prayer. I suppose the difference is the use of the word "know" - here it is used to refer to the available options before getting to the battlefield.

Reading over it (and the wording in the Chaos Codex is the same as Vigilus Ablaze - "... also knows...") I tend to agree with your interpretation of that.

Sounds like good YMDC thread.

saint_red wrote:
How quickly does a Storm Eagle with 15 Possessed in it go pop? What about with 5++ and additional -1 to hit (-2 total with Hard To Hit) from WB DA double prayer? It's further possible to get -3 with Miasma if you get first turn but that's not to be relied upon.

The main benefits of this approach is that it's immune to TFC shenanigans and is extremely mobile. Additionally, you aren't locked to AL / EC for the survivability strats and can instead pick WB for +damage and +attacks.

The downside is that you can be shot at T1 and will definitely take fire T2 as you attempt to get into position. It's also an additional 274 points for the ride.

This isn't really a strategy worth pursuing with the new FW rules to be released but it's something I've been thinking about.

Depends who you're playing, vs tau and guard or mele armies, not very quickly. If you play space marines, aeldari or csm with rerolls turn 1.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
That seems to be the correct interpretation ~ every other player and Battlescribe reads the rules that way. That said, from page 168 from Vigilus Ablaze:

"This model can chant prayers. It knows the Dark Zealotry prayer and one prayer from the Prayers to the Dark Gods."

So let's check the prayers to the dark gods:

"Before the battle, generate the prayers for Priests that can chant prayers from Prayers to the Dark Gods... a <Mark of Chaos> Priest that can chant prayers from the Prayers to the Dark Gods also knows the appropriate <Mark of Chaos> prayer on the right."

So when I first read that, I thought you got Dark Zealotry, one Prayer to the Dark God, and also the <Mark of Chaos> prayer. I suppose the difference is the use of the word "know" - here it is used to refer to the available options before getting to the battlefield.

Reading over it (and the wording in the Chaos Codex is the same as Vigilus Ablaze - "... also knows...") I tend to agree with your interpretation of that.

Sounds like good YMDC thread.

A good suggestion! I'll go ahead and set one up.

For a Tac list comprising three squads of 5 man CSMs at 1000-1500 points would you give them a combi plasma/plasma gun or a single gatling cannon?

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
That seems to be the correct interpretation ~ every other player and Battlescribe reads the rules that way. That said, from page 168 from Vigilus Ablaze:

"This model can chant prayers. It knows the Dark Zealotry prayer and one prayer from the Prayers to the Dark Gods."

So let's check the prayers to the dark gods:

"Before the battle, generate the prayers for Priests that can chant prayers from Prayers to the Dark Gods... a <Mark of Chaos> Priest that can chant prayers from the Prayers to the Dark Gods also knows the appropriate <Mark of Chaos> prayer on the right."

So when I first read that, I thought you got Dark Zealotry, one Prayer to the Dark God, and also the <Mark of Chaos> prayer. I suppose the difference is the use of the word "know" - here it is used to refer to the available options before getting to the battlefield.

hmm... battlescribe doesn't restrict you to just one, I don't know why it would allow multiple if you can't... that said... if you're right there's almost certainly no point in taking the apostle.

Well it seems like I was in the wrong about being in the wrong! It appears <Mark of Chaos> priests get three prayers.

Give your priests a mark of chaos, kids. Increase their prayer capacity by 50%!

Seems that dedication to a Chaos God has its perks.

Hi people! Now that we had time to test Faith and Fury and the point drops... What do you think of Terminators?

They surely are not tournament tier, but can they pull some weight in a casual game? Especially together with Obliterators and other elite infantry for target saturation.

I'm thinking khorne for reroll charges, axes for cheapness and bolters for troops clearing. WE for damage or IW for Dour Duty and ignore cover. Cacophony strategy is for Obliterators.

What's your take?

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Hi people! Now that we had time to test Faith and Fury and the point drops... What do you think of Terminators?

They surely are not tournament tier, but can they pull some weight in a casual game? Especially together with Obliterators and other elite infantry for target saturation.

I'm thinking khorne for reroll charges, axes for cheapness and bolters for troops clearing. WE for damage or IW for Dour Duty and ignore cover. Cacophony strategy is for Obliterators.

What's your take?

Combiplas terminators do Show up in well placing csm lists you realize that right? And they are generally in a purgh detachment or al and marked as slaanesh.

Fwiw though the cheapo loadout is a Handy tool to bring regardless of legion /warband.

Yeah but Oblits are far superior for damage, range (12 vs 24), sinergies and easier to put in cover, if I use the Slannesh combo is gonna be them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Good to hear that you find the cheap termi useful!

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Yeah but Oblits are far superior for damage, range (12 vs 24), sinergies and easier to put in cover, if I use the Slannesh combo is gonna be them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Good to hear that you find the cheap termi useful!

i run 10 (2x5 with chainaxes combibolter and reaper autocannons in my massed marine list)
4 shots each within 24" aswell as beeing rather tough cookies makes for fun surprises. Alternatively depending on scenario, i run them in a 10 man blob with lord support as slaanesh, for obvious reasons.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Yeah but Oblits are far superior for damage, range (12 vs 24), sinergies and easier to put in cover, if I use the Slannesh combo is gonna be them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Good to hear that you find the cheap termi useful!

i run 10 (2x5 with chainaxes combibolter and reaper autocannons in my massed marine list)
4 shots each within 24" aswell as beeing rather tough cookies makes for fun surprises. Alternatively depending on scenario, i run them in a 10 man blob with lord support as slaanesh, for obvious reasons.

I like to take at least one squad, size varying depending on available points, combiplas and chainaxes. Drop in play "prey on the weak " safely overcharge hitting on 2s=primaris vaporizers.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
For a Tac list comprising three squads of 5 man CSMs at 1000-1500 points would you give them a combi plasma/plasma gun or a single gatling cannon?

I'd go with autocannons if they are objective lurkers.
It can Attack anything ok, and eats primaris for breakfast.

Got it, thank you very much for the feedback on Terminators!

Im not sure reaper auto cannons are worth picking up on terms. Correct me if im wrong but they are the 4 S7 -1 D1 shots right?

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Im not sure reaper auto cannons are worth picking up on terms. Correct me if im wrong but they are the 4 S7 -1 D1 shots right?

Yea, that's the one. If you have points to spare and want your terminators to sit back they're relatively inexpensive and do pretty decent shots. the D1 kinda kills em though. better to take havocs with real autocannons imho.

Rihgu wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Im not sure reaper auto cannons are worth picking up on terms. Correct me if im wrong but they are the 4 S7 -1 D1 shots right?

Yea, that's the one. If you have points to spare and want your terminators to sit back they're relatively inexpensive and do pretty decent shots. the D1 kinda kills em though. better to take havocs with real autocannons imho.

Wait? do havocs have access to actual auto cannons rather than reapers?

Havocs use autocannons heavy2 S7 AP-1 D2.

Played my first game with CSM for a good all while at the weekend, faced a GSC/nids list with ridge runners, hiveguard, aberants and some chaff with a load of characters.

I played Alpha legion with world eater support and I wanted to try some of the new stuff.
I had a big blob of 30 AL marines, some obliterated and devs, berserkers daemon princes and sorcerer backed up by a load of cultists. I also had a apostle and a bike chaos lord.

Takeaways - The bike chaos lord was a complete boss! I gave him the WL trait that allows him to snipe characters and cause a MW on a 6 to hit, combine this with the combi bolter relic (S5,-3,D2) and extra combibolter he can have on his bike and he was running around putting out 8 shots a turn doing mortalis and murdering all kinds of things. Took out a patriarch, Magnus, sanctus and alpha in 3 turns of shooting. I know it's an index option now but he was amazing!

Oblits are super powerful but we all know that. Havocs with long ranged weapons are very useful. I took a bare bones combibolter unit of terminators with chain axes and a fist on the srg who were great for their points.

Berserkers and daemon princes are really good when warptimed, no change there.

All the new alpha legion strats do a great job of posing your opponent questions and making them double guess there strategy- really like them.

Overall the army was great fun to use with more options and power than when I last ran it a year or two ago

 Dr.Duck wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Im not sure reaper auto cannons are worth picking up on terms. Correct me if im wrong but they are the 4 S7 -1 D1 shots right?

Yea, that's the one. If you have points to spare and want your terminators to sit back they're relatively inexpensive and do pretty decent shots. the D1 kinda kills em though. better to take havocs with real autocannons imho.

Wait? do havocs have access to actual auto cannons rather than reapers?

If Havocs had access to "REAPER"- Autocannons, then i 'd honestly doubt we'd see the reaper chaincannon that often.

Also imo the investment into the reaper AC on terminators off 10 pts, is allways paying off for me atleast.
It's an immensly usefull tool against heavy infantry or dreadnoughts.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WisdomLS wrote:
Played my first game with CSM for a good all while at the weekend, faced a GSC/nids list with ridge runners, hiveguard, aberants and some chaff with a load of characters.

I played Alpha legion with world eater support and I wanted to try some of the new stuff.
I had a big blob of 30 AL marines, some obliterated and devs, berserkers daemon princes and sorcerer backed up by a load of cultists. I also had a apostle and a bike chaos lord.

Takeaways - The bike chaos lord was a complete boss! I gave him the WL trait that allows him to snipe characters and cause a MW on a 6 to hit, combine this with the combi bolter relic (S5,-3,D2) and extra combibolter he can have on his bike and he was running around putting out 8 shots a turn doing mortalis and murdering all kinds of things. Took out a patriarch, Magnus, sanctus and alpha in 3 turns of shooting. I know it's an index option now but he was amazing!

Oblits are super powerful but we all know that. Havocs with long ranged weapons are very useful. I took a bare bones combibolter unit of terminators with chain axes and a fist on the srg who were great for their points.

Berserkers and daemon princes are really good when warptimed, no change there.

All the new alpha legion strats do a great job of posing your opponent questions and making them double guess there strategy- really like them.

Overall the army was great fun to use with more options and power than when I last ran it a year or two ago

Yeah , the F&F AL shenanigans that are now possible are quite imppresive.
I absolutely love shuffeling my 3 lord discordants and helldrake for funsies.

Not to mention that the infiltration stratagem is great utility.


I will probably tommorow try a slightly abstuse list in a fun match but basically i want to play around a core of cultists, cult leader apostle and a noctilith crown in a 1000 pts game.
I also honestly think that it is quite possible for AL, to run cultists lists again, but with a significantly diffrent spin on it. ( Apostles, Sorcerers and lords, probably 2 each, benediction of darnkess, - the Slaanesh spell for FNP and the lords for rerolls.

Even with +1 to hit and +1 to wound a Reaper is only dealing 1 wound per 4 shots at a dreadnought. About the same vs Terminators. About 1.5 wounds to a Primaris.

Im not completely sold. Still firmly in the combiplas camp. Shorter range but hey

Reaper is for a footslogging unit with Combi-bolters.

Struggle to think of an instance where this is efficient. Especially with a meta adapting to abundant Primaris. 2W does not go as far as it used to. Maybe midfield objective camping? Even then, you either have to walk there, or teleport onto it, and that depends on an opponent letting you control the early game.

You could post Nurglings on the ground, ensuring you don’t get out-teleported if you lose first turn, but then if you want to drop Nurgle terminator gunners on an objective you take Blightlords

The other day I posted a list in the daemon thread, but it was wrong since I forgot about the rule of three for my princes. Here's the corrected version with a greater emphasis on CSM. The berzerker with the pistol is in the same unit as the others, I just separated him out for clarity's sake. The remaining points that I have are going to be used for deepstriking the bloodthirster, prepared positions if I need it, with one left over. One question I had is if the apostle is worth it since Benediction of Darkness can only buff one unit at a time.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The other day I posted a list in the daemon thread, but it was wrong since I forgot about the rule of three for my princes. Here's the corrected version with a greater emphasis on CSM. The berzerker with the pistol is in the same unit as the others, I just separated him out for clarity's sake. The remaining points that I have are going to be used for deepstriking the bloodthirster, prepared positions if I need it, with one left over. One question I had is if the apostle is worth it since Benediction of Darkness can only buff one unit at a time.

Spoiler:

World Eaters Battalion:

Master of Executions [HQ] [Warlord: Violent Urgency] [Relic: Bloodhunger] – 60

Kharn the Betrayer [HQ] – 120

Dark Apostle [HQ] (Dark Zealotry, Benediction of Darkness) – 72

Dark Disciples (2) – 10

Aspiring Berzerker Champion: Combi-melta and power axe – 35

Khorne Berzerker x 1 [Relic: Crimson Killer]: Plasma pistol and chainaxe – 21

Khorne Berzerkers x 4: Bolt pistol and chainsword – 60

Icon of Wrath – 10

Aspiring Champion: Boltgun and bolt pistol – 11

Chaos Space Marine Heavy: Reaper autocannon and bolt pistol – 21

Chaos Space Marines x 3 – 33

Aspiring Champion: Boltgun and bolt pistol - 11

Chaos Space Marine Heavy: Reaper chaincannon and bolt pistol – 31

Chaos Space Marines x 3: Boltgun and bolt pistol – 33

Havoc Champion: Bolt pistol and chainsword – 14

Havoc x 4: Lascannon – 156


Khorne Daemon Supreme Command Detachment:

Skarbrand [HQ] – 290

Karanak [HQ] – 70

Skullmaster [HQ] – 90

Bloodmaster [HQ] – 56

Skulltaker [HQ] – 84


Khorne Daemon Supreme Command Detachment:

Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [HQ] [Relic: Armour of Scorn] – 210

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [HQ]: Malefic talons – 165

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [HQ] [Relic – Skullreaver]: Daemonic Axe – 165

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [HQ] [Relic – King of Blades]: Hellforged Sword – 165

Points: 1993

Command points: 6

Please play this list and tell us how it does! It's wild, it's out there. I will say CSM Daemon princes are likely better than their cousins in the Daemon codex... mostly due to Hateful assault and relics.

Maybe worth considering them instead.

Im curious what people really think about warp talons having played them? They only deny overwatch when they deepstrike so thats T2. Is that Viable?

They can fairly easily get of T1 charges but not sure if they beat some of our other options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Im curious what people really think about warp talons having played them? They only deny overwatch when they deepstrike so thats T2. Is that Viable?

They can fairly easily get of T1 charges but not sure if they beat some of our other options.

I feel like the marine meta has kinda shoved all other factions into fringe and gimmicks.

weaver9 wrote:
Please play this list and tell us how it does! It's wild, it's out there. I will say CSM Daemon princes are likely better than their cousins in the Daemon codex... mostly due to Hateful assault and relics.

Thanks. I had to make some more changes, so I edited it some more and did indeed moved a prince to the WE battalion, with no wings. I'll probably replace the Obliterator with a Rhino once I've finished building the Rhino. For now, I'll teleport the Obliterator.

Curious about Alpha Legion Possessed Bombs. Anyone running such a list right now?

I played against one last night with my Grey Knights. It ended badly for Alpha Legion, they had no answer to smite spam, but I could see the potential.

His Possessed were very hard to hit, it was -4 the whole game. They managed to catch up with a GMNDK and a Terminator squad, hitting and wounding on 2+. I'm pretty sure they had 4 attacks per model, which made saves a moot point.

He also had a disco lord that was very hard to hit, I might have done a couple wounds with a Psilencer. There were so many buffs being applied to so many models, I honestly had a hard time figuring out what was doing what.

Aside from mortal wound spam, are there any good strategies for taking them down?

 techsoldaten wrote:
Curious about Alpha Legion Possessed Bombs. Anyone running such a list right now?

I played against one last night with my Grey Knights. It ended badly for Alpha Legion, they had no answer to smite spam, but I could see the potential.

His Possessed were very hard to hit, it was -4 the whole game. They managed to catch up with a GMNDK and a Terminator squad, hitting and wounding on 2+. I'm pretty sure they had 4 attacks per model, which made saves a moot point.

He also had a disco lord that was very hard to hit, I might have done a couple wounds with a Psilencer. There were so many buffs being applied to so many models, I honestly had a hard time figuring out what was doing what.

Aside from mortal wound spam, are there any good strategies for taking them down?

anything that doesn't rely on hit rolls, crack the discordant or that which stands infront of the bomb to make conceal work and you are golden.
Smite spam is an obvious candidate for destroying it.
Snipers can potentially eliminate the buffers (depends if your army has actual sniper units worth their salt so all not SM ones are not really an option)
A giant tarpit or two to just stop the bomb in it's tracks, rather unlikely to work though.
Orks with their 6+ allways hit.
Units that can easily get +1 to hit for stacking reasons.
A smash captain.

Just make sure you don't play grey knights because 4MW smites will kill you super quickly.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Just make sure you don't play grey knights because 4MW smites will kill you super quickly.

I guess the new Grey Knights may actually be the worst case hardcounter.

Further, Possesed bomb is based on "daemons" which makes GK even worse potentially and also since the new tides i believe came out GK tend to show up and win some tournaments.