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 Reivax26 wrote:
Where does it say they don't stack?

Faq

Is the FW Blood Slaughterer any good? Looking at its stats, it seems solid. I'm guessing that's it's best to replace the harpoon with anther blade to increase the melee damage output, but unlike 'ranged' weapons like the Maulerfiend's pistol, it's actually got an ok firing distance and gives the unit the charge bonus for any enemies hit, so I'm not sure on that point.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is the FW Blood Slaughterer any good? Looking at its stats, it seems solid. I'm guessing that's it's best to replace the harpoon with anther blade to increase the melee damage output, but unlike 'ranged' weapons like the Maulerfiend's pistol, it's actually got an ok firing distance and gives the unit the charge bonus for any enemies hit, so I'm not sure on that point.

Ehh, M 10 and allways advance 6" aswell as a good melee profile.
Otoh 165 pts. for a rather flimsy model...

I guess you can play decently around them and they are a daemonengine wich makes them nice with Discordant and jumppack sorcerer for wartptime and advance + charge from the special detachment.
But as it stands like most melee daemonengines it suffers from beeing melee and therefore often dead before it reaches the enemy and aswell from beeing overpriced .



I guess it's the price that makes it meh but since it is a daemon you can play around stacking synergy. Just like possessed.

Does anyone use the Noctolith Crown? I got one as part of an army I bought off a friend of mine and I was thinking that it might be useful for helping to hold objectives in your own deployment zone or just for helping with psychic stuff.

 Reivax26 wrote:
Does anyone use the Noctolith Crown? I got one as part of an army I bought off a friend of mine and I was thinking that it might be useful for helping to hold objectives in your own deployment zone or just for helping with psychic stuff.

2 issues with it.

-1 Denial of psy. you see the MoP, he does the same but more.

-2 5++ bubble, granted it grows but the units profiting the most of it are cultists, which also profit infinitely more from a Dark apostle. (which also has a 5++ bubble and a morale improvement on top of beeing a potential warlord with cult leader)

And at 80 pts it's also not as cheap and it is targetable and therefore easily destroyable.

Not to say you can't play around it, did some testing a while back and gave out the impression in this thread aswell, you can play around 2 for maximum efficency and cover alot of board with the effect, aswell as having alot of fodder that now suddendly is actually pretty durable in the form of cultists. Of course you can also use any other non Invul infantry on top of that and attempt to use the scoureged and the tzeentch spell to improve Invuls further to get 4++ csm mainline models and take advantage from the scourged trait by further hardening your gunline with msu and other options. Alternative is you use AL for the -1 to hit and the acces to more cultists interaction which overall are great at having stacked buffs on them, especially in regards to durability.

But that doesn't change the fact that you need to play specificaly around it.

I was thinking of it as something to help you hold objectives on your side of the board. Buffing units while throwing off the Psyker debuff on opponents seemed really useful for 80 points.

I would rather my Master of Possession be focused on buffing other stuff or trying to hurt my opponent than buffing Cultists or Chaos Marines holding a backfield objective.

The Crown works best with castle or gun line builds. But so far, other armies do such builds better. Not to say we can't try, but I think our best such builds would likely not match others.

Its fine for non-competitive play though. Provided your opponent uses fluffy lists rather than competition lists.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is the FW Blood Slaughterer any good? Looking at its stats, it seems solid. I'm guessing that's it's best to replace the harpoon with anther blade to increase the melee damage output, but unlike 'ranged' weapons like the Maulerfiend's pistol, it's actually got an ok firing distance and gives the unit the charge bonus for any enemies hit, so I'm not sure on that point.

Ehh, M 10 and allways advance 6" aswell as a good melee profile.
Otoh 165 pts. for a rather flimsy model...

I guess you can play decently around them and they are a daemonengine wich makes them nice with Discordant and jumppack sorcerer for wartptime and advance + charge from the special detachment.
But as it stands like most melee daemonengines it suffers from beeing melee and therefore often dead before it reaches the enemy and aswell from beeing overpriced .



I guess it's the price that makes it meh but since it is a daemon you can play around stacking synergy. Just like possessed.

I would definitely pair it with a disco lord, MoP and sorcerer (preferably a Terminator one since it can deep strike to where it needs to be). I've actually been leaning toward having one with a harpoon. Yes, that cuts back on the melee potential, but it's still a nasty weapon and a great boon to any charge that I make.

On a slightly different topic, I wish the Soulforged Pack had had some stuff to improve the ranged weapons of daemon engines, as both forgefiends and venomcrawlers could become much more potent.

honestly, preferably the aura on the lord discordant should also be applicable to warpsmiths, that would solve alot of issues. And make the warpsmith somthing that people want to field for more then just cheap fodder CP.

In the right build Warpsmith could be good. It's just that a lot of people don't play Mechanized gunlines.

 Reivax26 wrote:
In the right build Warpsmith could be good. It's just that a lot of people don't play Mechanized gunlines.

They don't do well there either. The problem is how low a D3 heal is. If an opponent wants a model dead, you won't get to heal it. If it's near death, the two wounds you'll likely heal will be pelted by small arms the next turn. The only real reason healing was mildly working with Iron Hands because they stacked it absurdly to make it even worth looking at, and GW promptly nerfed that for...reasons.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is the FW Blood Slaughterer any good? Looking at its stats, it seems solid. I'm guessing that's it's best to replace the harpoon with anther blade to increase the melee damage output, but unlike 'ranged' weapons like the Maulerfiend's pistol, it's actually got an ok firing distance and gives the unit the charge bonus for any enemies hit, so I'm not sure on that point.

Since CA2019 I feel maulerfiends are better value when paired with a Discordant.

I've used Bloodslaughterers. They're real killy, do as advertised, but can be hard to maneuver and vulnerable for the points.

 Reivax26 wrote:
In the right build Warpsmith could be good. It's just that a lot of people don't play Mechanized gunlines.

i fail to see how such a list would look like and work in the first place.

Because neither daemonengines nor regular tanks are atm imo worth a consideration between the odd vindicator and the wierd venomcrawler stack list.

Would it be feasible to build a force based on daemon Engines and summoned daemons of various kinds, buffed by MoPs and Lord Discordants?

Malefic Discipline and Lord Discordant powers specify <Legion> daemons and <Legion> daemon engines respectively, so I suppose allied Bload Drones and Plagueburst Crawlers don't benefit from either.

Having said that, do summoned daemons benefit from Melefic Discipline powers at all? They don't have the <Legion> keyword, do they?

I don't think that they benefit from it. Which is a shame but I kinda understand why. With all the keyword shenanigans we could make some seriously interesting lists.

Also does anyone think it's viable to play Alpha Legion without Disco Lords? I don't have any yet and I am trying to brainstorm ideas on other viable options for them.

I realize how good they are but I don't like sinking all those points into HQs when so many of the scenarios and ITC missions revolve around Troops.

Alpha legion is HQ centric, like all CSM forces, but can do anything and any style due to a combination of the best reacionary and actionary option in stratagem, traits and mark restricitons.

So yes it is viable to run AL without lord discordants, if any legion can do it really well then they can do it.

Also the Lord discordant is less of an HQ and more of a schizophrenic failure of a Heavy support slot.

So, I made a mixed Nurgle list. Any critique would be appreciated!

Warpsmiths can be good with the right setup. I used one with a master of possession, a lord of skulls, and 2 defilers as the main backbone of my line a few months ago. In 1 game my opponent got 1st turn and dropped my lord of skulls down to 2 wounds. My turn? Heals 1 on its own, warpsmith healed d3 (think I rolled a 2), then master cast sacrifice and healed it another 3. Putting it back up to 8 wounds allowed him to really hit that sweet middle bracket. Add warp time in after the heals to get maximum range, and then proceed to slaughter primaris.

My point is if your running a warpsmith a master of possession for the sacrifice spell is almost a nessesary choice to make it worth while. Bonus points if you make the Smith mark of nurgle and heal the wounds he losses with grandfathers blessings.

Except that's a lot of resources to do just that. The FW dude would do the same but better as he's also kinda dangerous.

Is Abaddon worth taking in ITC? And if so how do you generally field him?

Azuza001 wrote:
Warpsmiths can be good with the right setup. I used one with a master of possession, a lord of skulls, and 2 defilers as the main backbone of my line a few months ago. In 1 game my opponent got 1st turn and dropped my lord of skulls down to 2 wounds. My turn? Heals 1 on its own, warpsmith healed d3 (think I rolled a 2), then master cast sacrifice and healed it another 3. Putting it back up to 8 wounds allowed him to really hit that sweet middle bracket. Add warp time in after the heals to get maximum range, and then proceed to slaughter primaris.

My point is if your running a warpsmith a master of possession for the sacrifice spell is almost a nessesary choice to make it worth while. Bonus points if you make the Smith mark of nurgle and heal the wounds he losses with grandfathers blessings.

ehh, Klos, is a superheavy and not a mechanized unit imo.
also there's no way you could've not cut the defielers and got another klos.

and that shows the issue, everything medium not a daemonengine doesn't even get considered anymore and the lack of traits dosen't help in that regard. And most daemonengines are like all legion daemons just buff recievers with the exception that infantry is better which makes the possessed bomb more effective.

Warpsmith can repair <LEGION> VEHICLE. KLOS is a vehicle, if its from the same LEGION the warpsmith can repair it.

 p5freak wrote:
Warpsmith can repair <LEGION> VEHICLE. KLOS is a vehicle, if its from the same LEGION the warpsmith can repair it.

which was not my statement, at all.

My point was that the medium sized vehicles ,everything between and including rhino and landraider size , get's basically easily disregarded for good reasons.

Warpsmith is a safe pair of hands for Soulforged Pack warlord trait

If you lose first turn, he’s more likely to survive to donate +2”M to your dinobots than a freely targetable LD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonus: if your Legion has access to an endurance warlord trait, that also means the LD can benefit from it

Throw in a DA’s -1 to be hit and it might even survive losing T1

I am thinking about a headhunter Warpsmith with CB atm.

Imagine a sniper with a melta gun

Had my first game as a Chaos player today. Managed to squeeze out a win against a Death Guard list with Mortarion and Typhus. Those Poxwalkers are annoying to get rid of.

I used the models that I have so far which is far from the meta build.

Terminator Lord with Combi Plasma, Power Sword and Mark of Khorne.
Master of Possession with Cursed Earth and Infernal Power.
Sorcerer with Warptime and Presience.

Greater Possessed
5 Terminators. 3 combi meltas, 1 Reaper Autocannon. 4 of them had Power axes
5 Chosen. 3 with PP and Chainaxe, 1.Plasmagun, and one with BP and Chainsword

10 Chaos Marines. 2 Autocannons, 7 Bolters. Champ with PF
10 Chaos Marines 2 Plasmaguns, 7 BP and Chainsword, Champ with PF
11 Cultists

3 Oblits Mark of Slaanesh
2 Oblits Mark of Slaanesh
3 Venomcrawlers

3 Rhinos with Combi Bolters

I used the Rhinos to try and corral the Poxwalkers while my Obliterators and Autocannon Chaos squad melted Mortarion. I used the Master of Diversion trait and put all my big guns on Mortarions side with the Lord and both the Sorcerer and Master of Possession behind the 5 Oblits. He died on Turn 2. Dealt more damage when he popped than he did during the game.

I was quite nervous going into the game as it was my first game with them and I had never beaten that guy with my Dark Angels. So now I'm 1-4 lol

Dude I admire the fact that you have a squad of marines with ccw and bp. And a pf... rule of cool right there. Bolters are better about 99% of the time in a csm squad because marines are crap in close combat. Especially with plasmaguns. Your chosen squad is interesting as well. I admire the rule of cool that you use in those squads though.

macluvin wrote:
Dude I admire the fact that you have a squad of marines with ccw and bp. And a pf... rule of cool right there. Bolters are better about 99% of the time in a csm squad because marines are crap in close combat. Especially with plasmaguns. Your chosen squad is interesting as well. I admire the rule of cool that you use in those squads though.

ccw csm aren't half bad with the right support.
Tend to run in my hordes a squad which also somtimes poses as Khorne berzerkers, it's a good tool to have to tie up something occaisonally aswell.

Overall though, i feel like the enemy player got leftfooted due to the master of diversion and the promtly met the wrong end of dakka.

Not Online!!! wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Dude I admire the fact that you have a squad of marines with ccw and bp. And a pf... rule of cool right there. Bolters are better about 99% of the time in a csm squad because marines are crap in close combat. Especially with plasmaguns. Your chosen squad is interesting as well. I admire the rule of cool that you use in those squads though.

ccw csm aren't half bad with the right support.
Tend to run in my hordes a squad which also somtimes poses as Khorne berzerkers, it's a good tool to have to tie up something occaisonally aswell.

Overall though, i feel like the enemy player got leftfooted due to the master of diversion and the promtly met the wrong end of dakka.

You get more flexibility from bolters though. Rapid fire Bolters at what you are about to charge gives you 2 attacks vs the one attack from the ccw and one attack from the bolt pistol. I have ccw marines as well and I will use them as well with a flamer because... awesome! But you do end up with exactly the same number of attacks on the charge (ccw gives you one, plus bolt pistol before you charge, vs rapid fire for 2 shots from the Bolter) as without and you lose the ability to shoot stuff 24 inches away for that ccw. I guess you do have to worry about shooting the gap bigger making you have to roll higher for the charge... it’s not like you can’t shoot a different target to mitigate that though.Counts as them as berserkers would be an awesome use of them...

i use them in my RC band they solely exist to tie down things and that they do, i 'd like to say well but really just okay.

it's a shame imo that they do so badly really overall in regards of damage.