Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Not really a fan of the predator, also wouldn't 6 5 man suqds be a better option? more split fire and less blast weaponry?
On the Predator: I think it really comes down to personal preference. I'd definitely like to stick some more Butcher Cannons in there instead. It does dish out D3, which I definitely like.
For the troops: It becomes harder to take advantage of the Lord's aura. Also, with how controlling objectives works, I'm finding that I prefer to have more bodies in a squad to persist.
All that being said, I'm going to test out smaller squads + 1-2 Rhinos to block LoS for Havoc protection.
Not really a fan of the predator, also wouldn't 6 5 man suqds be a better option? more split fire and less blast weaponry?
On the Predator: I think it really comes down to personal preference. I'd definitely like to stick some more Butcher Cannons in there instead. It does dish out D3, which I definitely like.
For the troops: It becomes harder to take advantage of the Lord's aura. Also, with how controlling objectives works, I'm finding that I prefer to have more bodies in a squad to persist.
All that being said, I'm going to test out smaller squads + 1-2 Rhinos to block LoS for Havoc protection.
aye, maybee a defieler instead of a predator, considering it didn't go up really?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Wow shocker... The Chaos Index FAQ got updated and the Sonic Dreadnought in still and option for Emperor's Children in the 9th Edition. So, 125 pts for two Blastmasters, a Doom Siren, and a Power Scourge. So bad at all considering the Blastermaster has blast in both firing modes, apparently. You can fire them into combat but you have the Doom Siren and Power Scourge for that.
Latro_ wrote: 1's inst always instant death i dont think cmd re-roll is restricted but you can still re-roll to hit.
Also nothing stopping a lord still giving you a re-roll 1 to hit.
It was changed so that plasma guns on get hot on unmodified ones, which is a buff because -1 to hit no longer makes your gun more likely to explode. You can still reroll it, it's only the end result that matters.
On a similar note, I'm really liking Helbrutes w/ Fist/Scourge and Plasma Cannon. Blast has come in handy for me against 6-model squads of Aggressors and Centurions and it serves as a pretty nice follow-up/bodyguard for a Daemon Prince.
Plasma in general seems to be ideal for CSM right now. We're already a mid-field army and we can always use more high strength, high AP, and D2 weapons.
I'm currently brewing:
Spoiler:
Alpha Legion
Devastation Battery Battalion
1 Daemon Prince w/ Wings and 2x Malefic Talons - Warptime or Diabolic Strength
1 Daemon Prince w/ Wings and 2x Malefic Talons - Clandestine, Intoxicating Elixir, & Diabolic Strength or Warptime
1 Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor with Combi-Melta and Chainfist - Armourbane & Daemon's Eye
- I've had to cut Obliterators because they are feeling really bad with the price hike and losing the reroll, but Havocs still benefit greatly
1 Helbrute w/ Plasma Cannon and Helbrute Fist w/ Combi-Bolter
1 Helbrute w/ Plasma Cannon and Helbrute Fist w/ Combi-Bolter
- They are fast enough to stay within the aura of Daemon Princes and provide an excellent follow-up.
10 Chaos Space Marines, Sarge has Combi-Bolter & Chainsword, 2 Plasma Guns
10 Chaos Space Marines, Sarge has Combi-Bolter & Chainsword, 2 Plasma Guns
10 Chaos Space Marines, Sarge has Combi-Bolter & Chainsword, 2 Plasma Guns
5 Chaos Bikers w/ 2 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer, Chainswords replacing Pistols on the others.
5 Havocs w/ 4 Lascannons
5 Havocs w/ 4 Lascannons
1 Predator w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolters
2000 on the nose.
I feel that this list has a ton of board pressure. It can alpha strike with the Prince slingshot if needed, followed up by another Prince, 2 Helbrutes, and Bikers.
The rest is a potent firebase that can safely move up the board with no penalties to shoot.
The Havocs ignore cover, are fairly durable, and eat tanks. I could definitely see an argument for dropping the Predator for an Autocannon Forgefiend.
I also don't think it would really work with any other Legion. That -1 to hit is still pretty critical to making Helbrutes and Havocs anything close to viable. Even then, it's very tempting to switch to 2 Patrols/1 Battalion and 1 Patrol to pick up a Sorceror and a Lord Discordant.
No combi-plasmas on the CSM?
Oblits haven't really gotten any worse. Their increase wasn't disproportional to the average increase.
Also, forgive me if I'm wrong but we haven't seen a list of HQs that will receive the 'Supreme Commander' keyword yet have we? I would have thought that should be included in these recent FAQs.
Does that mean we can expect further FAQs?
Oblits haven't really gotten any worse. Their increase wasn't disproportional to the average increase.
You can't use a CP to reroll a weapon stat anymore so you're stuck with worse RNG stats or playing Iron Warriors.
Its not great, but it's not going to stop them from being what they are. They're just a bit less reliable. This isn't enough of a change to have their role be usurped by another unit as Havocs are still fragile, and Plasma Terminators are still much shorter range.
Oblits haven't really gotten any worse. Their increase wasn't disproportional to the average increase.
You can't use a CP to reroll a weapon stat anymore so you're stuck with worse RNG stats or playing Iron Warriors.
Its not great, but it's not going to stop them from being what they are. They're just a bit less reliable. This isn't enough of a change to have their role be usurped by another unit as Havocs are still fragile, and Plasma Terminators are still much shorter range.
This is fair. I love Obliterators and own 8 of them. They’re always at least Assault 6 at S7 AP-1 D1 on a durable, deep striking platform and you roll for stats before picking a target.
Maybe they’d have a good home in a Daemon Engine package or at least with a Master of Possession? Infernal Power is very strong and you can also cast Cursed Earth or Mutated Invigoration. Or perhaps something more aggressive like possessed.
Oblits haven't really gotten any worse. Their increase wasn't disproportional to the average increase.
You can't use a CP to reroll a weapon stat anymore so you're stuck with worse RNG stats or playing Iron Warriors.
Its not great, but it's not going to stop them from being what they are. They're just a bit less reliable. This isn't enough of a change to have their role be usurped by another unit as Havocs are still fragile, and Plasma Terminators are still much shorter range.
This is fair. I love Obliterators and own 8 of them. They’re always at least Assault 6 at S7 AP-1 D1 on a durable, deep striking platform and you roll for stats before picking a target.
Maybe they’d have a good home in a Daemon Engine package or at least with a Master of Possession? Infernal Power is very strong and you can also cast Cursed Earth or Mutated Invigoration. Or perhaps something more aggressive like possessed.
It looks like Chaos is going to be moving towards using lots of durable hybrid weapon daemon engines now with a mid-field pressure strat, so I think Oblits will be even more essential than ever as they'll fit right in with a bunch of forgefiends, venomcrawlers, and even defilers.
Are there any spreadsheets of the points changes floating about? Me and my buddy looking to draft up some lists and give them a whirl so we have an idea of things before the edition truly hits.
McMagnus Mindbullets wrote: Are there any spreadsheets of the points changes floating about? Me and my buddy looking to draft up some lists and give them a whirl so we have an idea of things before the edition truly hits.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
McMagnus Mindbullets wrote: Are there any spreadsheets of the points changes floating about? Me and my buddy looking to draft up some lists and give them a whirl so we have an idea of things before the edition truly hits.
Not really a fan of the predator, also wouldn't 6 5 man suqds be a better option? more split fire and less blast weaponry?
On the Predator: I think it really comes down to personal preference. I'd definitely like to stick some more Butcher Cannons in there instead. It does dish out D3, which I definitely like.
For the troops: It becomes harder to take advantage of the Lord's aura. Also, with how controlling objectives works, I'm finding that I prefer to have more bodies in a squad to persist.
All that being said, I'm going to test out smaller squads + 1-2 Rhinos to block LoS for Havoc protection.
If I am going to run predators, I would consider 3 for the kill shot. And I would also definitely consider Norlith crown. Its quite cheap now, and since its a chaos fortification, it returns 1 cp, so you don't lose any CP adding it to your army. It creates a big ever growing 5++ aura bubble which not just your predators, but a lot of your other troops can benefit from. And since your predators can now move and fire without any -1 to hit, the Norlith crown won't constrain your predators to being stationary that much since it has a pretty big base.
The crown itself is tough too. And if they want to blow it up to get rid of your invul bubble, that's probably at least one whole turn of shooting gone where they aren't targeting your predators, in which case it has done it job well enough.
Not really a fan of the predator, also wouldn't 6 5 man suqds be a better option? more split fire and less blast weaponry?
On the Predator: I think it really comes down to personal preference. I'd definitely like to stick some more Butcher Cannons in there instead. It does dish out D3, which I definitely like.
For the troops: It becomes harder to take advantage of the Lord's aura. Also, with how controlling objectives works, I'm finding that I prefer to have more bodies in a squad to persist.
All that being said, I'm going to test out smaller squads + 1-2 Rhinos to block LoS for Havoc protection.
If I am going to run predators, I would consider 3 for the kill shot. And I would also definitely consider Norlith crown. Its quite cheap now, and since its a chaos fortification, it returns 1 cp, so you don't lose any CP adding it to your army. It creates a big ever growing 5++ aura bubble which not just your predators, but a lot of your other troops can benefit from. And since your predators can now move and fire without any -1 to hit, the Norlith crown won't constrain your predators to being stationary that much since it has a pretty big base.
The crown itself is tough too. And if they want to blow it up to get rid of your invul bubble, that's probably at least one whole turn of shooting gone where they aren't targeting your predators, in which case it has done it job well enough.
Didn't Killshot get removed for loyalists? I'm not sure it'll be around for us much longer.
Oblits haven't really gotten any worse. Their increase wasn't disproportional to the average increase.
You can't use a CP to reroll a weapon stat anymore so you're stuck with worse RNG stats or playing Iron Warriors.
Its not great, but it's not going to stop them from being what they are. They're just a bit less reliable. This isn't enough of a change to have their role be usurped by another unit as Havocs are still fragile, and Plasma Terminators are still much shorter range.
This is fair. I love Obliterators and own 8 of them. They’re always at least Assault 6 at S7 AP-1 D1 on a durable, deep striking platform and you roll for stats before picking a target.
Maybe they’d have a good home in a Daemon Engine package or at least with a Master of Possession? Infernal Power is very strong and you can also cast Cursed Earth or Mutated Invigoration. Or perhaps something more aggressive like possessed.
On the subject of Oblits. Good players will still be able to screen out deep strikers, especially cos the board has now gotten smaller.. Guardsmen infantry are still 5 points per model. And even leaving that aside, a lot of armies will now tend towards high pressure pushing to the middle of the board, as everyone will soon realise how important it is to contest the midboard objectives. Sp, Oblits can be screened from good targets by a good player. Any good player will know how devastating a squad of Oblits can be on the turn they deep strike in.
Having said that, Obits are 105 points each now. Putting 3 into deep strike means putting 315 points into deep strike just from that unit alone. Given even CSM also wants to push to the midboard, we have to consider the disadvantages of fighting with just 1685 points on the board for as much as two of our opponent turns if he goes first. Its a rather big numberial disadvantage.
I am actually leaning towards fielding single or double oblits instead of three. Not quite as big a commitement to points in deep strike. And also, its a smaller footprint for 1 or 2 Oblits to deep strike down on, so it may be alot harder to zone out against. And 1 Oblit is 105 points, but opponent still has to consider that with Cacophony, thats still 12 shots, could easily wreck a tank. Plus with 1 Oblit, I would not hesitate to deep strike it into the rear, shoot it and then charge it into a tank just to turn off its blast weapons and force it to shoot me for one turn.
Even the psychological impact of just having 1 Oblit in deep strike may force your opponent to play a lot more defensively than he would have, and that might end up losing him the game as you take advantage of that to push up with the rest of your entire army.
I am feeling more and more strongly that CSM will run spearhead detachments as our main detachments instead of batallion in 9th ed. Our heavy support choices are much stronger than our troop choices and we all acknowledge that our troops choices are bad compared to other factions. So, no point spending more points than we need to to make them "average". Might as well go for spearhead so that we bring less troops and now we can bring more heavy support.
I also feel that Demon princes with wings and lord discordants are a trap now. Both are pushing 200 points. Our demon engine vehicles are much cheaper on a per model basis. So are any other decent unit. Heck even a squad of 5 terminators are alot cheaper than 200 points for us. I am going to experiment with going character lite so that I can maximise the number of points I put into units.
The thing we need to consider is this. For 100+ points, space marines can field a unit of intercessors that can take objectives, can shoot well, can fight well, and yet, are also quite sturdy because they are 2W each. Its a very well rounded unit and its a Troop choice for marines. Then add all the other slots. They can have multiple such 100+ point units all over the board contesting all of the midboard objectives. 1 for 1, our CSM squad will lose to such an inteccesor squad. So, we have to think about other units that can or might be able to stand up against this. (because all else being equal, both of us have the same points). So, its quite possible that a far off, near the edge objective might end up with just one such unit on either side duking it out for control.
Leaving aside obsec, then a vehicle is a decent choice in a 1 v 1 unit situation over an objective. Because our daemon engines and hellbrutes can shoot and fight. And at T7, they are a tough nut for an intercessor unit to crack. Assuming a hellbrute or a daemon engine is left a lone to fight a squad of inteccesors, I would say the hellbute or daemon engine should eventually win. Though we may have to lose that objective for 1 turn initially because the intercessors have obsec. But once they get killed off in a 1 v 1 unit situation. Then we start to have a good advanrage, and this then forces the opponent to have to divert more resources towards that objective, or if he doesn't then the lone vehicle can just stand there until the end of the game, claiming that objective.
This kind of supports my thoughts on single oblits. 1 oblit is 105 points, Shoots very well, and is no slouch at fighting too. It is the the perfect unit on its own to deep strike into far off places, and put alot of pressure on a lightly defended spot. And yet, its not so expensive putting 1 or 2 such units into reserve will weaken the rest of your army that much. Small footprint, yet cannot be ignored. The only thing is we need all those heavy support slots, so thats why I would say spearhead detachment is the way to go for us.
Didn't Killshot get removed for loyalists? I'm not sure it'll be around for us much longer.
Until they get around to coming out with a new codex for us (not sure when that will be), I am pretty sure killshot is still a thing for us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/16 01:04:06
So with the emphasis on mobility, lethality and durability, has anyone looked at bikes? Between movement, 2 wounds, 3 combibolters and the potential to add 2 plasma/melta and a combiplasma/melta, for 114 points... I don’t think it’s that bad of a deal and they can put 3 melta shots up a tank’s tail pipe, or 6 plasma shots into a flanked elite squad, and 12 Bolter shots into anything squishy enough to warrant that, while being able to charge anything weakened enough to hit with 10 attacks on the charge and potentially contest/seize an objective.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut
Bikes are decent for us, So yes. I would consider bikes too, if I had the points ... lol It would probably be heavy support > elites > fast attacks. So, the question is by the time you max your compulsory character, min troop slots and then your heavy support and elite choices, do you still have points left for fast attack.
Because heavy support and elites have the beefiness to take and hold an objective and shoot well too. In comparision, bikes don't really want to sit on an objective. And their durability is likely to be less on a unit to unit comparision.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 01:21:51
Definitely something I'd think could be useful. Outflanking them as a solid possibility too.
Thinking up Daemon Engine focused lists I'd had a thought I didn't expect. Are Mutilators worth considering?
Small footprint. Cheap 105. Benefit from the Possession auras. Focus on mid board makes their movement less of a liability. Take up minimal room in reserves to put pressure somewhere or drop in to bail out something in your zone (can someone reiterate the restrictions on deep striking in your own zone nearly right into melee?)
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
The issue with mutilators is their movement. We better make sure they get the charge in, else they are going to do nothing and then get shot at. At least Oblits will definitely pull their weight on the turn they deep strike in.
If I was running Emperor's children, so I can use the strategem to give my mutilators a super high chance to get into combat on the turn they come in, I would consider them. If they were the only unit I have in deep strike.
Its an interesting consideration, now that you brought them up.
Mutilators are definitely beefy relative to their points. Especially now that everything else went up in points. I think the focus on objectives has changed the entire game somehwat. Before, the opponent could take their time, eliminating other priority shooting threats and then come back to killing your mutilators. But now, they have to consider that if your mutilators are on an objective, they are losing VP points to you if they don't take care of that unit..
Alpha legion mutilators might be a consideration. Use forward operatives, scout move them 9 inches up and then move advance them onto a table edge midboard objective turn 1. Now opponent has to deal with them. Is forward operatives still a scout move 9 inches up, or is it now deploy 9 inches away ? They keep changing that strategem until I also can't remember whats the latest iteration... lol
Maybe someone can do the math for a unit of intercessors shooting and then charging into a unit of Mutilators on an objective. Who would eventually win and how many rounds of combat would it take on average?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/07/16 01:40:21
I am feeling more and more strongly that CSM will run spearhead detachments as our main detachments instead of batallion in 9th ed. Our heavy support choices are much stronger than our troop choices and we all acknowledge that our troops choices are bad compared to other factions. So, no point spending more points than we need to to make them "average". Might as well go for spearhead so that we bring less troops and now we can bring more heavy support.
I also feel that Demon princes with wings and lord discordants are a trap now. Both are pushing 200 points. Our demon engine vehicles are much cheaper on a per model basis. So are any other decent unit. Heck even a squad of 5 terminators are alot cheaper than 200 points for us. I am going to experiment with going character lite so that I can maximise the number of points I put into units.
Troops still feel relevant, especially now that Actions are a thing.
Originally, I wrote "I think at 200 pts, flying DP's are still incredibly relevant." in this spot and started working out the following reasons:
1. They still have character protection on top of a 12" move and decent durability.
2. Especially with double Talons, they will chew through primaris, chaff, and vehicles, especially if you invest in buffs.
Without any relics or charging, a 2x Talon DP will kill 3.02 Primaris bodies per round of combat.
- If charging, that goes up to 3.46.
- With Intoxicating Elixir (no charge), that's 4.32 and with a charge, 4.86.
- Tack on Diabolic Strength (no charge), that's 4.86, and 5.4 with charge.
Of course, if you're only charging Primaris, that doesn't feel too great as you're wasting some precious S10.
3. Flying affords us the ability to punch planes.
Against a Hemlock Wraithfighter, we can put out an average 6.91 wounds with just a charge or 8.64 wounds with the previously mentioned buffs.
I got to about this point and looked at the old cost of 165 points and...yeah...
I quickly ran the math for a Lord w/ Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer (145) and he can smack that Hemlock for 6.48 wounds on a basic charge, up to 11.34 with the same buffs and that can fight twice.
A Power Fist shaves off 30 points (and no -1 to hit, but d3 damage sucks) and will do 5.4 with a basic charge up to 9.45 with buffs.
Even those don't feel great as you're losing durability, volume of attacks against infantry, and a psychic power (you can fight twice though with the Khorne strat).
CSM as a faction feel really awkward right now.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Is forward operatives still a scout move 9 inches up, or is it now deploy 9 inches away ? They keep changing that strategem until I also can't remember whats the latest iteration... lol
macluvin wrote: Probably the classic greater than 9” away from enemy units.
If this is in answer to my query I don't think it is. It was from something early on. Can't remember if it was any units in reserve or specifically the new outflanking version (Also is there a distinction between the two?)
Something to the effect of: If arriving on your table edge can be placed directly into melee but it wasn't worded "completely" so you could chain your way deeper onto the board.
Also wondering what shenanigans you could add with some Lindsay40k style Daemonkin with the Mutilators. Khorne reroll charges, Slaanesh run and charge + Warptime, Nurgle Tree etc.
First thought is Khorne Daemon Patrol or leaving points aside for Slimux.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
I am feeling more and more strongly that CSM will run spearhead detachments as our main detachments instead of batallion in 9th ed. Our heavy support choices are much stronger than our troop choices and we all acknowledge that our troops choices are bad compared to other factions. So, no point spending more points than we need to to make them "average". Might as well go for spearhead so that we bring less troops and now we can bring more heavy support.
I also feel that Demon princes with wings and lord discordants are a trap now. Both are pushing 200 points. Our demon engine vehicles are much cheaper on a per model basis. So are any other decent unit. Heck even a squad of 5 terminators are alot cheaper than 200 points for us. I am going to experiment with going character lite so that I can maximise the number of points I put into units.
Troops still feel relevant, especially now that Actions are a thing.
Originally, I wrote "I think at 200 pts, flying DP's are still incredibly relevant." in this spot and started working out the following reasons:
1. They still have character protection on top of a 12" move and decent durability.
2. Especially with double Talons, they will chew through primaris, chaff, and vehicles, especially if you invest in buffs.
Without any relics or charging, a 2x Talon DP will kill 3.02 Primaris bodies per round of combat.
- If charging, that goes up to 3.46.
- With Intoxicating Elixir (no charge), that's 4.32 and with a charge, 4.86.
- Tack on Diabolic Strength (no charge), that's 4.86, and 5.4 with charge.
Of course, if you're only charging Primaris, that doesn't feel too great as you're wasting some precious S10.
3. Flying affords us the ability to punch planes.
Against a Hemlock Wraithfighter, we can put out an average 6.91 wounds with just a charge or 8.64 wounds with the previously mentioned buffs.
I got to about this point and looked at the old cost of 165 points and...yeah...
I quickly ran the math for a Lord w/ Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer (145) and he can smack that Hemlock for 6.48 wounds on a basic charge, up to 11.34 with the same buffs and that can fight twice.
A Power Fist shaves off 30 points (and no -1 to hit, but d3 damage sucks) and will do 5.4 with a basic charge up to 9.45 with buffs.
Even those don't feel great as you're losing durability, volume of attacks against infantry, and a psychic power (you can fight twice though with the Khorne strat).
CSM as a faction feel really awkward right now.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Is forward operatives still a scout move 9 inches up, or is it now deploy 9 inches away ? They keep changing that strategem until I also can't remember whats the latest iteration... lol
It's a 9" move.
The issue I have is that we don't really want to risk flying our demon prince solo to an edge of the board mid point objective. That would risk letting the opponent snipe it to death because it would not be within 3 inches of another unit. If we back that up with a suitably sturdy unit, or an ob sec CSM troop, then now we are talking about sending 260 to 275 points or more to take one objective. (if this is against just one intercessor unit, the points are working against us now, we are deploying far too many points compared to our opponent to go after the same one objective). And this is a character, so it risks us giving up VP points for kill character, or even kill warlord. So, I think if our demon prince is part of our main force going for a central objective, that's fine. But if its for a daring strike in the rear enemy lines objective, or because we want to contest a edge of the board midpoint objective, then I rather do that with a unit like a Termi squad, or a daemon engine, or even a mutilator rather than a Demon Prince. And in the first place, consider that there could be as many as 4 mid board objectives. We don't have 4 flying demon princes plus units to throw at all the objectives.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/16 03:54:36
macluvin wrote: Probably the classic greater than 9” away from enemy units.
If this is in answer to my query I don't think it is. It was from something early on. Can't remember if it was any units in reserve or specifically the new outflanking version (Also is there a distinction between the two?)
Something to the effect of: If arriving on your table edge can be placed directly into melee but it wasn't worded "completely" so you could chain your way deeper onto the board.
Also wondering what shenanigans you could add with some Lindsay40k style Daemonkin with the Mutilators. Khorne reroll charges, Slaanesh run and charge + Warptime, Nurgle Tree etc.
First thought is Khorne Daemon Patrol or leaving points aside for Slimux.
Mutis have teleport strike as an ability which bypasses using CP to put in reserves, and gives it the ability to deep strike anywhere that is >9” away from enemy models. As for rule book strategic reserves, it explicitly states that if you have rules (like muti teleport strike) you use those in place of strategic reserves. Also the muti does this at the end of any movement phase... don’t know if you can use cp to put it in reserves.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Or deploy using rule book reserves rules. Or if you would even want to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 04:17:03
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut
If my maths is correct, 5 intercessors would be lucky to take 2 wounds off mutilators rapid firing them charging. Whereas the mutilators should, as long as they roll a 2 or more for damage kill at least 4 primaris in melee.
I am very interested in them now!
The issue I have is that we don't really want to risk flying our demon prince solo to an edge of the board mid point objective. That would risk letting the opponent snipe it to death because it would not be within 3 inches of another unit. If we back that up with a suitably sturdy unit, or an ob sec CSM troop, then now we are talking about sending 260 to 275 points or more to take one objective. (if this is against just one intercessor unit, the points are working against us now, we are deploying far too many points compared to our opponent to go after the same one objective). And this is a character, so it risks us giving up VP points for kill character, or even kill warlord. So, I think if our demon prince is part of our main force going for a central objective, that's fine. But if its for a daring strike in the rear enemy lines objective, or because we want to contest a edge of the board midpoint objective, then I rather do that with a unit like a Termi squad, or a daemon engine, or even a mutilator rather than a Demon Prince. And in the first place, consider that there could be as many as 4 mid board objectives. We don't have 4 flying demon princes plus units to throw at all the objectives.
Raptors? They're definitely more fragile than what's ideal, but they can be held in reserve and carry 3 plasma guns.
Helbrutes still move 8" and will laugh at intercessor squads, but no invuln really hurts.
I have a game against some flavor of Eldar tonight, so I'm trying:
Spoiler:
1 Daemon Prince w/ Wings and Sword (going to try out the AL relic sword)
1 Daemon Prince w/ Wings and 2x Malefic Talons
1 Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor with Combi-Bolter and Chainfist
5 Chaos Space Marines with Combi-Plasma/CS, 1 Plasma Gun
5 Chaos Space Marines with Combi-Plasma/CS, 1 Plasma Gun
5 Chaos Space Marines with Combi-Plasma/CS, 1 Plasma Gun
5 Chaos Bikers w/ 2 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer
5 Raptors w/ 2 plasma guns and a Combi-Plasma
I'm aiming for a lot of mobility and hopefully being able to consistently take down planes and bikes. It still feels terrible having fewer HQ slots. I can only imagine how bad Chaos Daemons feel.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 21:02:27
An interesting quirk of 9th edition that I noticed today. If you took a black legion terminator armed with a combi-plasma, and you:
-Advance
-Fire both the bolter and plasma profiles at the same time
-Target someone benefiting from dense cover or a -1 to hit trait
All at the same time, that terminator would still be hitting on 4s, as to hit penalties don't stack.
Also, combi weapons are the same price as all their non-combi equivalents, so there's never any reason to take say a plasma gun or melta gun over a combi plasma or combi melta if you have a choice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/17 02:20:57
