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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 05:39:44
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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Eldenfirefly wrote:
More than one faction seems to be considering bring a lot of vehicles. And transports got a boost this edition too. So, I wonder if a list with few or zero vehicles would be kind of a counter meta list.
The Bile Subfaction actually looks pretty cool to me.
The fact I want to make Mutilators a thing and their the fastest in his subfaction is probably a big part of it lol.
Though I'm interested to try T4 Cultist hordes.The already great Melee/Plasma Contemptor is even better with Bile too.
Just fun to be throwing things into BS again before all enthusiasm gets wiped out again.
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/08/13 00:53:41
BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 15:24:50
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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Eldenfirefly wrote:Rihgu wrote:Well, yea that's what I'm doing... I'm giving a mobile firebase re-rolls but due to terrain I can't move out of deployment zone into good positions easily. And I can't get to objectives outside of my deployment zone.
edit: and because of obscuring terrain, I can't bring my firepower to bear on enough of the enemy army to matter much, and all of my units are squishy,
Can I ask why terrain is preventing you from moving out of deployment? Because If you are using Abaddon and mostly infantry units around him, then they are not stopped by terrain like ruins, they just go straight through. So unless your board has a lot of obstacles terrain ? If you are running Abaddon alongside daemon engines then yeah, it would be a problem, because he is significantly slower than Darmon Engines plus everything would be somewhat hindered by terrain. If you are doing that, you probably have to set him and his engines up in a clear lane to walk through from the very start and just take any shooting that comes his way.
One issue I face with Pairing up Abby with Havocs though. Abby tends to want to charge straight forward, while Havocs often want to position sideways to gain a better firing arc. (If its range, then lascannon Havocs are already in range, so moving forward doesn't benefit them at all). So, it is a bit of a conundrum.
More than one faction seems to be considering bring a lot of vehicles. And transports got a boost this edition too. So, I wonder if a list with few or zero vehicles would be kind of a counter meta list.
In the first game I played, the gap from deployment zone to center objective wasn't big enough to fit my deathball while still moving forward. I was able to get 10 terminators to advance onto the point just barely within abaddon's reroll range but they got shot off the board by rubrics and a double soulburner contemptor that hid behind obscuring terrain so couldn't be shot turn one. Same rubric unit used double shoot to take down my bikers on a side objective, too.
Last night's game I decided to do 2 units of chosen and 2 units of chaincannon havocs in land raiders, thinking protecting my high damage/low durability would be worth it, but I failed Illusory Supplication in the first battle round and the ork player was able to get angles. One land raider got bracketed (going from 10"->5" is absolutely brutal... should've read that before the game and I'd know this plan was bunk...) and because they were vehicles they couldn't move through the ruins.
Also I absolutely could not stick any damage on the ork units, not in any way that mattered. Especially irksome was the battlewagon that survived with 1 wound after Abaddon smashed it for 10 damage (also killed a deffkilla wartrike with split attacks) which then charged Abaddon with Snikrot to kill him. But that's probably because the only multi-damage weapons in the list were Abaddon and the Land raider lascannons.
Really not sure what sort of list to try next, maybe 30 terminators? Not sure if reaper autocannons are worth it over combi-bolters on them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 20:51:38
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Am i the only one taking issue with the sm turret autocannon beeing far superior than any we get?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 20:51:51
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 21:10:14
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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Isn't the sm turret autocannon a twin-linked butcher?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 21:18:57
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Rihgu wrote:Isn't the sm turret autocannon a twin-linked butcher?
Nope just a Double reaper but with d 2....
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 21:49:38
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Morphing Obliterator
The Void
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Not Online!!! wrote:Am i the only one taking issue with the sm turret autocannon beeing far superior than any we get?
Its a 6 shot autocannon. Aka 3 autocannons. Compared to Havocs with autocannons, its the same wounds and T, better save and BS, but much worse mobility. Havocs can lose models more easily, but the Turret is lascannon bait with no invul. So the comparison will come down to just how much less it costs. With points changes and all, I'm not exactly sure what Power Level 4 will mean. That could be up to like 100pts now right?
So it could be too efficient, or it could be about the same depending on the cost. I think Havocs are ahead on lascannons though. I'll take the full 48" over BS 2, even if the havocs cost more.
And it seems pointless for SM to use a 24" lascannon, even at 4 shots, when they can run Eradicators with 6 melta shots at the same range.
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Always 1 on the crazed roll. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 21:59:20
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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I meant more the fact that it is a single weapon that Beats even more specialiced Versions.
Granted as you said it's on the turret and i also am unsure if the rule of 1 pl about 20 pts still apply..
Still annoys me because soon am are everything +1 Design wise...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 22:26:27
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 22:03:15
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Morphing Obliterator
The Void
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The extra BS concerns me more than the weapons profile. The extra armor gets balanced out by the difference in movement, and the havocs having another 2 shots could balance out the difference in price (depending on what it is), but that still leaves them with better BS by one. So there does seem to be inflation. Its too bad Havocs can't still take up to 10 models for more ablative bodies. That'd change a lot.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 22:03:36
Always 1 on the crazed roll. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 22:06:17
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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But Havocs can get Prescience and Warp-sight Plea! That's why the Loyalists need higher BS to compete.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 22:13:25
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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Rihgu wrote:But Havocs can get Prescience and Warp-sight Plea! That's why the Loyalists need higher BS to compete.
Both of those things havocs get require a precious HQ slot, extra points, and a dice roll. No....
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Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/04 22:26:00
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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macluvin wrote:Rihgu wrote:But Havocs can get Prescience and Warp-sight Plea! That's why the Loyalists need higher BS to compete.
Both of those things havocs get require a precious HQ slot, extra points, and a dice roll. No....
Obvious sarcasm from an iron warriors got missed somehow, they allready Mark danger mate
But yeah There is 0 reason for that thing beeing BS 2....
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/05 03:08:42
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I kind of like our Nortilith crown as a fortification, not withstanding the SM one. Gives us chaos flavor. But need to build a list around it. It gives our psykers reroll. That is actually pretty big and makes their casting alot more reliable. Especially if you are going for stuff like cursed earth. I have seen so many failed casts of that spell its not even funny. Prescience is also a warp charge 7 power as well. So it can sometimes fail too.
And that 5++ aura is pretty good. We have a fair number of units which would love that. The main problem is that its static.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 03:59:39
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Regular Dakkanaut
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What are the top five units for Chaos Marines 9th edition? Thank you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 04:44:31
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BillyN831 wrote:What are the top five units for Chaos Marines 9th edition? Thank you.
Honestly, nothing is a must take. It all depends on what kind of list you are building. We can build something interesting and thematic with Lord Discordant. But there are other lists that totally skips bringing him. Daemon Prince? Same thing. Most lists don't bring Lord of skulls. But there is a tournament list with three lord of skulls and it didn't get hit much with 9th ed changes.
Some love Obliterators. Others don't.
You can bring defilers in a list now, and they would be good now. But not quite S tier either.
Nothing in our range is a "must bring" honestly. lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 05:05:48
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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RCC havocs
Obliterators
JP sorcerer
That's my top 3.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 08:48:29
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Eldenfirefly wrote:BillyN831 wrote:What are the top five units for Chaos Marines 9th edition? Thank you.
Honestly, nothing is a must take. It all depends on what kind of list you are building. We can build something interesting and thematic with Lord Discordant. But there are other lists that totally skips bringing him. Daemon Prince? Same thing. Most lists don't bring Lord of skulls. But there is a tournament list with three lord of skulls and it didn't get hit much with 9th ed changes.
Some love Obliterators. Others don't.
You can bring defilers in a list now, and they would be good now. But not quite S tier either.
Nothing in our range is a "must bring" honestly. lol
debatable, considering sorcerers and DP's are mainstay of many lists.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/06 08:53:41
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 11:25:57
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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I dont see whats good about CSM DPs. They are 200 pts. now with wings, and they only have a 5+ inv. A codex daemon tzeentch DP is also 200, but he can get a 3+ inv. Stats wise they are identical.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 11:30:29
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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p5freak wrote:I dont see whats good about CSM DPs. They are 200 pts. now with wings, and they only have a 5+ inv. A codex daemon tzeentch DP is also 200, but he can get a 3+ inv. Stats wise they are identical.
i fully expect the other one to go up further.
Not saying the DP has been priced out ( atleast the winged version, non winged ones might see play with self warptiming..)
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 12:17:46
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
East of England
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I dunno. GW cleary want TS princes to be great, and they started off the same price, and stayed that way for ages, until SupCom Sons was just everywhere. Now they're locked behind a CP paywall, they might try the same approach again.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 12:26:04
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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BillyN831 wrote:What are the top five units for Chaos Marines 9th edition? Thank you.
for me:
Obilts
Forgefiends (yep i said it)
Rhinos
All the characters depending on your army, sorcerer is a standout
Spawn (i know, wtf, but take 3x 5 spawn units to these obj missions on their 50mm bases spread out and see what happens. Perhaps more realistic, 3 units of 1 of them 69pts and very handy)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/06 12:31:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 12:35:06
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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BillyN831 wrote:What are the top five units for Chaos Marines 9th edition? Thank you.
Obviously it depends on the legion and the list, but for Night Lords I'd say:
Combi-plasma terminators
Warp talons (though this is debatable considering how the asinine points change shakes out)
Contemptors
Rhinos (yes, boring, but transports seem to be key in 9th)
You can almost never go wrong with a jump sorcerer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 23:18:39
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Dakka Veteran
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Cultists. Taken every nerf gw could throw at them and they're still around and in every [competitive] list. Except maybe mastodons of course..
Daemon engines. They're all pretty similar in a sense so pick some and bring multiples. And RIP forgeworld I enjoyed you but now codex is back. With few exceptions.
Discos. I tried writing them off but they're still great.
Master of possession- see above.
Honestly I think thats about it for CSM. Bring in Tsons, DG, daemons or if we're talking legion specific (IW oblits etc) and the list gets bigger.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/07 04:25:53
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Quick list of what I am thinking for straight CSM
Abaddon
Scorpius Whirlwind
Havocs
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought
Defiler
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/09 04:20:35
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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I noticed that Zhufor the Impaler is still temporarily out of stock on FW. Is there a good chance that he will be coming back or do you think he will be axed by GW? I think that he does have points in the new Chapter Approved.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/09 12:07:52
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
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ArcaneHorror wrote:I noticed that Zhufor the Impaler is still temporarily out of stock on FW. Is there a good chance that he will be coming back or do you think he will be axed by GW? I think that he does have points in the new Chapter Approved.
Who knows but FW has been moving out of the 40k space for the last few years and Zhufor is now a very old model for a campaign that isn't in production anymore. My feeling he and the other FW 40k characters are destined for legends.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/09 13:26:17
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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buddha wrote: ArcaneHorror wrote:I noticed that Zhufor the Impaler is still temporarily out of stock on FW. Is there a good chance that he will be coming back or do you think he will be axed by GW? I think that he does have points in the new Chapter Approved.
Who knows but FW has been moving out of the 40k space for the last few years and Zhufor is now a very old model for a campaign that isn't in production anymore. My feeling he and the other FW 40k characters are destined for legends.
Also Zhufor is invariably linked to the Vraksian renegades, so even doubly bad for his existence...
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/10 00:14:31
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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buddha wrote: ArcaneHorror wrote:I noticed that Zhufor the Impaler is still temporarily out of stock on FW. Is there a good chance that he will be coming back or do you think he will be axed by GW? I think that he does have points in the new Chapter Approved.
Who knows but FW has been moving out of the 40k space for the last few years and Zhufor is now a very old model for a campaign that isn't in production anymore. My feeling he and the other FW 40k characters are destined for legends.
Not Online!!! wrote: buddha wrote: ArcaneHorror wrote:I noticed that Zhufor the Impaler is still temporarily out of stock on FW. Is there a good chance that he will be coming back or do you think he will be axed by GW? I think that he does have points in the new Chapter Approved.
Who knows but FW has been moving out of the 40k space for the last few years and Zhufor is now a very old model for a campaign that isn't in production anymore. My feeling he and the other FW 40k characters are destined for legends.
Also Zhufor is invariably linked to the Vraksian renegades, so even doubly bad for his existence...
These are both excellent points. I do love the character and the model (and rules), but I might end up using a regular terminator Chaos lord with the helmet on, possibly putting teeth on it to mimic Zhufor's monster mouth.
Also on the topic of terminators, I've read that a squad of double lightning claws is best for World Eaters/Khorne melee terminators. Is this true, or is there a better loadout? What do you all use for your terminators' weapons, regardless of legion/warband? I just bought a box yesterday.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/10 00:36:44
Subject: Re:Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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ArcaneHorror wrote:Also on the topic of terminators, I've read that a squad of double lightning claws is best for World Eaters/Khorne melee terminators. Is this true, or is there a better loadout? What do you all use for your terminators' weapons, regardless of legion/warband? I just bought a box yesterday.
Night Lords: combi-plasma + chainaxes, "Prey On The Weak", overcharge, hitting anything LD8 or less on 2s, watch Loyalist Scum burn. Add an Icon of Vengeance and it works on anything LD 9 or less, good against Gulliman's Big Blue Boy Scouts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/10 02:54:33
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Dakka Veteran
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The NL combo is solid although now they still want a lord unfortunately.
My terminator unit size varies from 5-10 all cbplas and then mostly chainaxes except for 2 chainfists one on the champ. Basically never deviate from this setup. Around 10 models I'll add a 3rd chainfist.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/10 05:46:53
Subject: Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I am starting to think that if we want to stick to CSM but not deathguard, then we should go for killy. I was trying to many ways to make my CSM more resilient, and then I looked at the deathguard and they can do it so much more easily that if thats your concern, then just go deathguard.
But in going killy, the issue is then we become glass cannons... Kind of like the berserker squad issue. A berserker squad that gets it charge in will delete whatever it charges (mostly). But in turn, it doesnt take much to wipe that squad out. lol
So, we can have havocs with cacophony, thats double the killing power, but again, havocs are glass cannons.
The only way we can sort of mitigate that to a certain extend is to go daemon engine army. But, in actual fact, deathguard does that even better than CSM. So... sigh... I don't know. Maybe it would be fun to just go world eaters, give up trying to be resilient and just go for killy.
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