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dominuschao wrote:
Hmm good point but hopefully they don't go up quite that much. Agreed on csm vs DG. I was talking about troops comparison where DG are looking like one of the strongest. In theory anyway.

Yeah. I also have a Death Guard army. Very different animal.

The way I think about CSM, they're not going to win any shooting matches and melee mechanics don't favor mid-range armies. They are going to have to have a couple glorious rounds of superior shooting coupled with strategic fights for specific objectives to win.

The way I think about Death Guard, they are not going to win any races. They are going to march across the table and beat opponents by attrition. The pure DG list I'm thinking about will have PMs with flails / axes, Blightlords with the same, and lots of armor.

Maybe I'm just crossing the streams, but it seems like the two armies might be better together. If I had the Chosen Party Drill and some Obliterators shooting up an opponent's backlines while some super tough Blightlords started tying up a couple units in combat, there are armies that won't have the tools to deal with that. Mix in a few Blighthaulers to maybe improve saves and this could be the best of both worlds.

I have no clue what to do with my Chaos Knights or Daemons. They both seem very vulnerable by comparison.

 techsoldaten wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Hmm good point but hopefully they don't go up quite that much. Agreed on csm vs DG. I was talking about troops comparison where DG are looking like one of the strongest. In theory anyway.

Yeah. I also have a Death Guard army. Very different animal.

The way I think about CSM, they're not going to win any shooting matches and melee mechanics don't favor mid-range armies. They are going to have to have a couple glorious rounds of superior shooting coupled with strategic fights for specific objectives to win.

The way I think about Death Guard, they are not going to win any races. They are going to march across the table and beat opponents by attrition. The pure DG list I'm thinking about will have PMs with flails / axes, Blightlords with the same, and lots of armor.

Maybe I'm just crossing the streams, but it seems like the two armies might be better together. If I had the Chosen Party Drill and some Obliterators shooting up an opponent's backlines while some super tough Blightlords started tying up a couple units in combat, there are armies that won't have the tools to deal with that. Mix in a few Blighthaulers to maybe improve saves and this could be the best of both worlds.

I have no clue what to do with my Chaos Knights or Daemons. They both seem very vulnerable by comparison.

Daemons feel like Codex: Nurglings at the moment. Very unfortunate, but hopefully we'll see an update soon

I saw a battle report of Slanaas daemon themed army that was pretty cool and looked good for certain matchups. Not every army can handle 4 keeper of secrets (3 exalted plus 1 named) plus a host of daemonettes running up the field.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I saw a battle report of Slanaas daemon themed army that was pretty cool and looked good for certain matchups. Not every army can handle 4 keeper of secrets (3 exalted plus 1 named) plus a host of daemonettes running up the field.

Not to drag it out discussions of fantasy armies, but there's a case to be made for blobs of 2W CCW Noise Marines who always fight first paired with fast moving Slaanesh Daemon infantry.

One could tie up an opponent while the other closes in to finish the job. They could tie up entire armies while other units seize objectives.

Just to add to the discussion. Deathguard are slow, but not that much slower than CSM. You are as fast as your transports. CSM and deathguard have access to the same transports. So, Rhinos and Drills and Land Raiders.

Footslogging wise, 1 inch difference movement between PM and CSM footsloggers is probably not going to make such a big difference. Especially if you have Brightbringers who allow for picking the higher dice of 2D advance rolls.

Sure, CSM has bikes, but I have yet to see any list that makes heavy use of CSM bikes. Arguably, if deathguard wanted to be fast, they can make heavy use of nurglings and chaos spawn with contaminated monstrosity. Nurglings can start on objectives like scouts. and chaos spawn and beasts with a 7 inch move and super resilient with DR.

The key thing here is firepower vs resilience. CSM can put out more ranged firepower, but are a lot more fragile compared to deathguard.

Right it's less about speed and more about what DG cant access such as oblits, heldrakes etc. I have a buddy thats been playing DG iron warriors and it's a really nasty combo. Potentally similar to BL/DG only more mechanized instead of the veteran focus.

Personally I'm sticking to alpha legion but I splash EC for flavor or sometimes Tsons. Now EC feel like a more viable choice which is cool since before I ran them more for the models. My dilemma is what to do with the 10 primaris Infiltrators I'm sitting on. I'm thinking converted chosen now with the latest info. Any other ideas?

dominuschao wrote:
Right it's less about speed and more about what DG cant access such as oblits, heldrakes etc. I have a buddy thats been playing DG iron warriors and it's a really nasty combo. Potentally similar to BL/DG only more mechanized instead of the veteran focus.

Personally I'm sticking to alpha legion but I splash EC for flavor or sometimes Tsons. Now EC feel like a more viable choice which is cool since before I ran them more for the models. My dilemma is what to do with the 10 primaris Infiltrators I'm sitting on. I'm thinking converted chosen now with the latest info. Any other ideas?

Sell them on Facebook.

Infiltrators are popular because they block deep strike for 12 inches, but most people don't have enough for their army.

Have you worked up an EC list yet? Are there units you are looking for? See to it you get enough for at least a CSM boxed set.

What are people's thoughts on the Creations of Bile legion traits, strat and etc. ? I am asking because I am still unsure of which legion to choose for my CSM main detachment.

Bile is freaking amazing, adding 1 str and movement is terrific. His strats are all quite useful. Finally his dp with supreme creation can be a beast.

Having said all of that, his tricks and strats only really help infanty (not cultists) so to take maximum advantage of him thats what you have to focus on. Possessed, beserkers, plauge marines, noise marines, havocs, oblits, normal marines, those kinds of things. If his strats could affect bikers I would say this army is just terrific but alas only the chapter tactic works on bikers and hellbrutes. But even then a double fist brute is only 100 pts. At m 9" and str 14 in cc, and warptime being a thing, you could easily overwhelm your opponent with threat saturation quite easily.

Finally biles change to the entire unit needing to he wholy within 6" hurts. You can't really buff a big blob without wasting a turn on them. So that leaves smaller squads and stuff bile can keep up with t1, which can limit things a bit.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Just to add to the discussion. Deathguard are slow, but not that much slower than CSM. You are as fast as your transports. CSM and deathguard have access to the same transports. So, Rhinos and Drills and Land Raiders.

Footslogging wise, 1 inch difference movement between PM and CSM footsloggers is probably not going to make such a big difference. Especially if you have Brightbringers who allow for picking the higher dice of 2D advance rolls.

Sure, CSM has bikes, but I have yet to see any list that makes heavy use of CSM bikes. Arguably, if deathguard wanted to be fast, they can make heavy use of nurglings and chaos spawn with contaminated monstrosity. Nurglings can start on objectives like scouts. and chaos spawn and beasts with a 7 inch move and super resilient with DR.

The key thing here is firepower vs resilience. CSM can put out more ranged firepower, but are a lot more fragile compared to deathguard.

I get your point and agree the difference in movement is small. While an inch or two may matter in some situations, my concern about transports is the cost in an army with expensive units.

I'm not sure what DG unit comes out of a Drill with enough power to justify the points. Terminators all have deep strike and there's also Strategic Reserves. The reason you do it with CSM Plasma Chosen is that's 10 plasma shots in your opponent's backlines plus the meltas on the drill itself. What is the DG unit that's going to ride in the Drill and how does it compare with the CSM options?

I need to reread the rules on the Drill to see if it can handle Dreads. If so, maybe a cc Contemptor or Leviathan would be a good payload.

Maybe there's a case to be made for cc Plague Marines jumping out of a Rhino. But I'm pretty sure Land Raiders / Assault Klaws / other methods of delivery are less efficient than taking another squad of Plague Marines.

With DR, they can handle some shooting while the footslog. The fastest units are Spawn, Drones, Blight Haulers, PCBs and Mortarion. Not ideal, but maybe they can cover situations where it's important to grab a point mid-table in the early turns. That's really what people should be concerned about. And DG do have enough deep striking Terminator options to handle it.

 techsoldaten wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Right it's less about speed and more about what DG cant access such as oblits, heldrakes etc. I have a buddy thats been playing DG iron warriors and it's a really nasty combo. Potentally similar to BL/DG only more mechanized instead of the veteran focus.

Personally I'm sticking to alpha legion but I splash EC for flavor or sometimes Tsons. Now EC feel like a more viable choice which is cool since before I ran them more for the models. My dilemma is what to do with the 10 primaris Infiltrators I'm sitting on. I'm thinking converted chosen now with the latest info. Any other ideas?

Sell them on Facebook.

Infiltrators are popular because they block deep strike for 12 inches, but most people don't have enough for their army.

Have you worked up an EC list yet? Are there units you are looking for? See to it you get enough for at least a CSM boxed set.

Haha ya that might happen. On the other hand I came across a kickass pic of some AL converted infiltrators which makes me wanna try that. Just need to dig through the bits boxes. But no I really don't need more units. I can't play all the ones I have anymore which is why my lists are stuck. I end up cutting back my flavor units.

My better list is not really where I want to be, but its solid.




The theoretical list that I want I can't fit everything in a way thats satisfying to me.
It would probably lose the spawn, defilers, maybe even the oblits and thus the MOP in order to squeeze an emperors children detachment with rapa talons lord (if hes even playable now), noise marines, terminators and maybe some chosen since I'll lack anti tank. And I want to run my warp talons again but with 2w around the corner I'll leave them out for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On DG drills the only time I have seen them use one it had 3 foul blightspawn inside along with something I don't recall, maybe PMs. They ended up being a pain a turn later but now if they get 12" range they would be pretty nasty.

So i started playing Night lords with the release of faith and fury and now with the release of 9th it seems like bikers are a super strong pick considering how the missions changed.

I run a MSU of plasma bikers with mark of slaanesh and they always overperform. Would it be crazy to run bigger squads?

Idk man haven't ever used heretic bikers alhtough I've owned several full bike armies.

I'd say part of the reason they over perform is related to their relatively cheap cost.
Adding a couple ablatives would protect the plasma a bit but more bodies also makes it harder for the unit to perform at its pts value.

Another thought.. if it works and its that good don't change it just double up and run 2.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Just to add to the discussion. Deathguard are slow, but not that much slower than CSM. You are as fast as your transports. CSM and deathguard have access to the same transports. So, Rhinos and Drills and Land Raiders.

Footslogging wise, 1 inch difference movement between PM and CSM footsloggers is probably not going to make such a big difference. Especially if you have Brightbringers who allow for picking the higher dice of 2D advance rolls.

Sure, CSM has bikes, but I have yet to see any list that makes heavy use of CSM bikes. Arguably, if deathguard wanted to be fast, they can make heavy use of nurglings and chaos spawn with contaminated monstrosity. Nurglings can start on objectives like scouts. and chaos spawn and beasts with a 7 inch move and super resilient with DR.

The key thing here is firepower vs resilience. CSM can put out more ranged firepower, but are a lot more fragile compared to deathguard.

I get your point and agree the difference in movement is small. While an inch or two may matter in some situations, my concern about transports is the cost in an army with expensive units.

I'm not sure what DG unit comes out of a Drill with enough power to justify the points. Terminators all have deep strike and there's also Strategic Reserves. The reason you do it with CSM Plasma Chosen is that's 10 plasma shots in your opponent's backlines plus the meltas on the drill itself. What is the DG unit that's going to ride in the Drill and how does it compare with the CSM options?

I need to reread the rules on the Drill to see if it can handle Dreads. If so, maybe a cc Contemptor or Leviathan would be a good payload.

Maybe there's a case to be made for cc Plague Marines jumping out of a Rhino. But I'm pretty sure Land Raiders / Assault Klaws / other methods of delivery are less efficient than taking another squad of Plague Marines.

With DR, they can handle some shooting while the footslog. The fastest units are Spawn, Drones, Blight Haulers, PCBs and Mortarion. Not ideal, but maybe they can cover situations where it's important to grab a point mid-table in the early turns. That's really what people should be concerned about. And DG do have enough deep striking Terminator options to handle it.

I think the go to right now for DG with a drill is to put a biologus putrifier along with a large squad of 9 or 10 plague marines. Then they jump out of the Drill with the Biologus. The Biologus then makes all the blight grenades on the plague marines str 4, damage 2 plus when they roll a 6+ on their wound roll for the blight grenades, it causes a mortal wound. So, the idea is you jump out, you use the strategem blight bombardment (1cp) and veterans (1cp) and overwhelming generosity from war of the spider (1cp). So, for a total of 3 CP, your blight grenades are now 12 inch range, every single model of your PM squad can throw a grenade (so that's 10d6 grenades attacks) and finally, on every 5+ to wound, you will cause a mortal wound. I have heard stories of one big squad of PM bringing down an imperial knight with a barrage of blight grenades when they roll well. It costs 3CP though. But its deadly, and invuls do nothing against this attack.

The math. 10d6 grenade attacks on a T7 vehicle would result in 35 attacks, 23 hits, 11.5 wounds, two thirds of these 11.5 wounds will be mortal wounds. So, 7.6 mortal wounds even before rolling for the grenade damage which is 2D each. Also, I haven't factored in the blight grenades are plague weapons, so reroll 1s to wound. That would further increase the wounding attempts, which boosts this even further. So, the mortal wounds is already at least 8 or more, and each failed grenade save is 2D.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Just to add to the discussion. Deathguard are slow, but not that much slower than CSM. You are as fast as your transports. CSM and deathguard have access to the same transports. So, Rhinos and Drills and Land Raiders.

Footslogging wise, 1 inch difference movement between PM and CSM footsloggers is probably not going to make such a big difference. Especially if you have Brightbringers who allow for picking the higher dice of 2D advance rolls.

Sure, CSM has bikes, but I have yet to see any list that makes heavy use of CSM bikes. Arguably, if deathguard wanted to be fast, they can make heavy use of nurglings and chaos spawn with contaminated monstrosity. Nurglings can start on objectives like scouts. and chaos spawn and beasts with a 7 inch move and super resilient with DR.

The key thing here is firepower vs resilience. CSM can put out more ranged firepower, but are a lot more fragile compared to deathguard.

I get your point and agree the difference in movement is small. While an inch or two may matter in some situations, my concern about transports is the cost in an army with expensive units.

I'm not sure what DG unit comes out of a Drill with enough power to justify the points. Terminators all have deep strike and there's also Strategic Reserves. The reason you do it with CSM Plasma Chosen is that's 10 plasma shots in your opponent's backlines plus the meltas on the drill itself. What is the DG unit that's going to ride in the Drill and how does it compare with the CSM options?

I need to reread the rules on the Drill to see if it can handle Dreads. If so, maybe a cc Contemptor or Leviathan would be a good payload.

Maybe there's a case to be made for cc Plague Marines jumping out of a Rhino. But I'm pretty sure Land Raiders / Assault Klaws / other methods of delivery are less efficient than taking another squad of Plague Marines.

With DR, they can handle some shooting while the footslog. The fastest units are Spawn, Drones, Blight Haulers, PCBs and Mortarion. Not ideal, but maybe they can cover situations where it's important to grab a point mid-table in the early turns. That's really what people should be concerned about. And DG do have enough deep striking Terminator options to handle it.

I think the go to right now for DG with a drill is to put a biologus putrifier along with a large squad of 9 or 10 plague marines. Then they jump out of the Drill with the Biologus. The Biologus then makes all the blight grenades on the plague marines str 4, damage 2 plus when they roll a 6+ on their wound roll for the blight grenades, it causes a mortal wound. So, the idea is you jump out, you use the strategem blight bombardment (1cp) and veterans (1cp) and overwhelming generosity from war of the spider (1cp). So, for a total of 3 CP, your blight grenades are now 12 inch range, every single model of your PM squad can throw a grenade (so that's 10d6 grenades attacks) and finally, on every 5+ to wound, you will cause a mortal wound. I have heard stories of one big squad of PM bringing down an imperial knight with a barrage of blight grenades when they roll well. It costs 3CP though. But its deadly, and invuls do nothing against this attack.

The math. 10d6 grenade attacks on a T7 vehicle would result in 35 attacks, 23 hits, 11.5 wounds, two thirds of these 11.5 wounds will be mortal wounds. So, 7.6 mortal wounds even before rolling for the grenade damage which is 2D each. Also, I haven't factored in the blight grenades are plague weapons, so reroll 1s to wound. That would further increase the wounding attempts, which boosts this even further. So, the mortal wounds is already at least 8 or more, and each failed grenade save is 2D.

It's even more gross if you've got a character with Arch Contaminator around (which you can give to the Biologus Putrifier for 1 CP if you'd like) letting you reroll all wounds instead of 1s. You can also get a DP or Lord near them for reroll 1s to hit. Its a fairly expensive and positioning intensive delete button of a combo, but I like the sound of it for a couple of reasons. First, it's a solid amount of spike damage that you can use somewhat surgically against an opponent in what is otherwise a very much war of attrition style army. Hitting a key target or two with the grenade bomb seems like it could easily turn the tide for the rest of the army weathering out the remainder of the games on objectives. Second, all the units needed to perform the first wham-blam-thank you maam combo are all reasonably durable and threatening after the fact so it's not like the whole thing is just a one and done fireworks display. The Termite and the PMs are both solid units in their own right and will require your opponent spend significant resources to remove the, lest you just do the whole thing grenade thing over again or the Termite runs around mucking with anything it can touch in their back lines.

I just ordered some twin las arms for my Contemptors. Took forever to find them. Can't wait to use them in my Alpha Legion.

I thought of a list that is based on counter charging whatever the opponent puts on objectives. But the issue I have is that only 2 of the charges from deep strike seem to be more certain. The world eater charges are still based on making a rerollable 8 inch charge, which... is not reliable. Anyway, let me know what you guys think of this concept.

World Eaters and Emperor's Children List.

World Eaters Battalion.
1 more relic - 1cp

Chaos Lord with Jump pack, and demon weapon Z'aall. Warlord trait : Violent urgency (will go into deep strike)

Daemon Prince with Wings, taliman of nurning blood, Daemonic axe.

CSM squad, 5 man, with reaper chain cannon

Two squads of 8 Berserkers, power fist, icon of wrath, chain axes. (using 2 CP to put both in reserve).

1 Havoc squad with 4 reaper chain cannons.

Emperor's children patrol

Daemon Prince with Wings

10 man squad of Noise Marines with 2 blastmasters and the rest sonic blastors.

2 squads of 5 man bolter, power fist terminators (both will go into deep strike as well).

2 Havocs squads with 4 reaper chain cannons each.

And that's it. So, its kind of a beta strike kind of list. So the idea is that I will have the jump pack lord and 2 zerker squads in reserve, plus 2 terminator squads in deep strike.

The rest of the army will hide. And then first turn, the job of all those reaper chain cannons is to clear out all the infantry chaff in the midboard to clear the way for all the stuff coming in from deep strike and reserve.

Then on turn 2, the 2 zerker squads and jump pack lord can come in, and the lord's warlord trait violetn urgency will give the zerker squads a +1 on the charge.

The 2 terminator squads are Emperor's children, so they will come in on turn 2 and 3. And use the strategem "honor the prince" to change 1 dice roll of the charge into a 6. Its a very high chance both units will make the charge using this strategem.

The two daemon princes will hide first turn, and then fly up to mid board to charge and fight on turn 2, when most of the stuff comes in. And turn 3, if I have cleared the midboard hopefully, I will have the last Termi squad deep striking into enemy deployment zone assisted by the 2 flying daemon princes and possibly the warlord on jump pack as well.

I don't know if this kind of list can last the whole 5 turns. But I will have nasty surprises for my opponent on turn 2 and 3.

But I don't know if my turn 2 strike will go well. Its dependent on making a rerollable 8 inch charge with my warlord and the 2 zerker squads. And I am banking that with all the reaper chain cannons and sonic blasters, there won't be much chaff left to screen out all my stuff coming in from deep strike and reserve.

So, what do you all think?

Honestly this list will have a hard time. There is too much in reserve so we're looking at most of your scoring from round 3 which is too late. And without any pressure/push units your deep strike LZs are going to be very restricted leaving a lot hinging on those s5 ap1 shots. If you see a mechanized infantry list or anything benefiting from cover it's just not gonna be impactful. Then the list is looking at making multiple charges from ds or be stuck outside of scoring shooting bolter/hvy bolter rounds.

I like some aspects of the list like the zerks, NM, and maybe 2 units of havocs, but I would reduce the number of reserve units for starters. Getting rhinos instantly makes it more flexible and competitive.
Also I'm not convinced by the combi bolter terminators or the double DPs. The bolters lack impact especially vs cover. Even cbplas termies flop pretty often without reroll and strat support.
The DPs are now sadly barely worth taking. While still semi appealing they are certainly not good enough to double up on.

For some things to consider, I would lose/downgrade at least 1 DP for some rhinos. Either get some better anti tank or combine those terminators and adding plasma so you have a serious target for EC and votlw at least giving you 2 units to force multiply.

Caveat- this could be built for a very specific meta in which case some of this won't apply.

Hmm, yeah, its kind of an off meta type of list. Actually, the two squads of bolter termis aren't relying on their shooting. They are all rocking 5 man power fists. The idea is when they deep strike in, they will make their charge because of the Emperor Children strategem and then do most of their business in close combat.

While we won't be able to score much in Turn 2. The idea is that because we have so much stuff charging in from reserves or deep strike on turn 2, we will also prevent the opponent from scoring much as well.

I did consider more Rhinos. But Rhinos, you have to have at least a few. Else they would definitely be destroyed if they are the only vehicles I have. All my anti vehicle comes from melee actually. Thats why both DP are using axes, the zerkers champs has their power fists and weight of attacks, and the two termi squads are full power fists.

On the note of Rhinos. Anyone tried a mass Rhino type list with CSM? Has it had any success? I got 5 Rhinos and I would love it if such a mechanised list would work now.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
On the note of Rhinos. Anyone tried a mass Rhino type list with CSM? Has it had any success? I got 5 Rhinos and I would love it if such a mechanised list would work now.

Had a bit of giggle with my massed csm list and mechanized 6 squads.

I can't really say if it works on every Level but for certain an improvement over 8th.

As an aside , havoc launchers got cheaper and better...

I guess it kinda works the issue is the staying power for the Units to embark on mid needs to be factured in, soooo...

Also probably more firemagnets, maybee even Run 5csm squads x2 per rhino to take advantage of msu.

I guess one advantage we have right now is that we can run such a mechanized list and still have some points left to spend on other stuff because comparatively, our marines are the cheapest around.

Any1 know what Rapier batteries cost? they cheaper than Havocs for Heavy Bolter/Las/Whatever?

It's like 100ppm for a heavy bolter hellforged rapier battery, so basically comparable to Havocs (when taking into account the strengths/weaknesses as well).

Is anyone playing Crusades with a Chaos force, and is anyone going to start a 9ed CSM thread? I’ve started a 9ed Daemonkin thread, but that’s a niche sub subgroup

Delete

Hey all, I'm seriously considering starting a Word Bearers army for 9th later this year, though I'll probably wait for the Codex before making big purchases. I'm already hyping myself by reading the codex and Faith & Fury and think I'll go down the theme of Possessed, Greater Possessed, Apostles and the likes, supported by regular SMC, Havocs and the likes. I have yet to write the list but there's a setup that I like a lot, and I'd like your opinion on it if you'd be so kind:

I'd like to make my Warlord a Word Bearers Dark Apostle, with the Dark Council upgrade, the idea being using him as a buffer and beatstick. By using the Exalted Possession WL trait, the Cursed Crozius relic, and the Omen of Potency prayer I end up with a guy that deals 7 attacks at WS 2+, S7, AP-4, D3 that rerolls wounds against Imperium. The obvious downside I see is the mobility, being only 7", so he'll rely on transports or footslogging. But the theme of my army will turn around footslogging or transports too anyway.

Considering he can cast two Prayers he can either buff the units around him with rerolls, or I use the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch on him, for either a +2S or d3 wounds regen. Both seem good to me. S9 looks a tad overkill though, so with 4 wounds base the regen is more appealing.

To accompany him and his Possessed, I'm thinking a pair of Greater Possessed (who can push the Dark Apostle to S8 with the above buffs), a Master of Possession with a mix of Cursed Earth, Sacrifice or Mutated Invigoration, and a Jump Pack Sorcerer with Weaver of Fates and something. Sub-question: am I correct in assuming that if I pass Cursed Earth and Weaver of Fates on a unit of <Tzeentch> Possessed they end up with a 3++ ?

A big blob of Possessed boosted this way looks good to me, especially if I use the Revered Hosts strat to give them +1D. If every star aligns on a squad of 20 that's 20d3 attacks (rerollable, so 40-60 attacks), 3+ to hit rerollable, S6, +1 to wound (prayer or strat), AP-2, D2 (strat). Defensively that's 40W at T4, 3+/5++ up to 3++. I really like the idea, considering the focus on aggressively assaulting objectives this edition they look ideal for that work. The obvious problem being the mobility... Everything save the MoP will have 7" move but I can't Warp Time everyone at once of course. So either I do multiple units of 10 as well as the characters in Rhinos and rush up the table, or I footslog a unit of 20 and hide it out of LoS and buff the hell out of their invulnerable save and try to engage as soon as I can. Rhino strat costs a but of points in Rhinos but splits the units in 10s so less efficient for buffing. Rhinos die really easily, too. Need to have T1. The footslogging option is really slow however and takes space, they'll get shot easier too.

I'd really like your thoughts on all this mess of ideas please, I've faced SMC in games multiple times but have never played them, so I don't know what's viable. I won't do tourneys but I'd like to be able to build a solid list around this theme, in Word Bearers.

If you are focusing on stacking crazy whack buffs on possessed, then you are definitely running possessed right. Summoned heralds can also buff possessed, I believe. Anyways, outside of a competitive meta I think you'll enjoy playing possessed as the back bone of your army. Everything else is just support at that point. The WL trait that adds attacks to possessed is probably one of the most vital fixes to really make possessed pop off, as d3+1 attack on the charge makes them more expensive than berzerkers, less punchy, and not that much more resilient. Adding that extra attack IMO via the warlord trait is vital.

I've faced WB possessed but never used em myself, although I've brewed a bit. My feeling is that your ideas are on target. But the uber dark apostle warlord is not ideal. It's thematic as hell and hits hard. But is too fragile, slow and has a lot of working parts. Better to build a dedicated beatstick for the combat role I think and then dedicated support character(s).
From my experience (against) WB possessed the revered host is the most vital buff to their success. And of course defensive buffs. Anything else is gravy. On that note I would consider delightful agonies and cursed earth. In a straight single wound attack setting they are identical but overall fnp is stronger than 3++ vs multi damage weaponry.

The mechanized approach is cool. It's faster and protects the bodies more while splitting their threat while allowing you to target RH where it's needed. The deathstat version is probably nastier overall but more "all in" and more susceptible to being focused down.

Whatever way you go post the list up around here!

Thanks for the input guys, really appreciate it ! I've written a test list to see which direction I can go. This list will probably never see the light of day as I don't own any Chaos models, and I'll probably wait until 9th to start, however it's too fun to write lists and speculate. Also things will change with the upcoming wargear and wounds bump (3W Possessed ? ). ALSO I really hope a remake of the Possessed model is underway, as it's currently really old and expensive on top of that.


I've followed your advice and made the Dark Apostle more of a support character than a beatstick (though I'll try it someday), and so gave him the +1A aura for Daemons. The Beatstick™ is the DP of Khorne, 8 attacks of pure rage, accompanied by 10 melee SMC in a Rhino to have some ObSec assault to help contest the objectives in enemy territory (and provide Look out, Sir!).

I'll go the mechanised approach with this list, having 2 Rhinos for the 2x10 Possessed and a third for the Dark Apostle, MoP and Disciples. HOWEVER it poses me a serious problem due to the timing of the Prayers. They're made at the start of the battle round and so can't be made while in a transport. So turn 1 I can Pray, embark him manually and then ride, but it'll be useless, and turn 2 when I disembark I won't have any buffs, turn 3 will see me having probably less models and the game almost decided by then. I don't know how to counter this save for running a footslog version, which will be slower, but can be boosted defensively with Cursed Earth and Delightful Agonies, as well as the Benediction of Darkness prayer. But then it's slower...

I included 2 Obliterators because I figured I needed a bit of anti-big stuff weaponry, and that Endless Cacophony on Obliterators can still be good I guess. If needed I can give them rerolls on the random stuff with the MoP but that's not the point of the MoP in this list. Also, I'll get Obliterators in the Start Collecting boxes.

What do you think of this ?