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Yeah! Let's make them hit on a 4+ instead so when they wound on a 4+ against even pretty weak HQs they'll definitely never be able to accomplish their role of killing characters.
Gotta make sure their abilities are realistic when compared to those of a 10,000 year old winged space elf sniping with a magical missile launcher. Otherwise this would just be difficult to believe.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
You know, what really gets me is that new GSC stuff does literally the same thing the Primaris range was supposed to be, only five times better. Let's see, Reivers are supposed to be tasked with the same thing as Keler, deep striking in and hitting weak points - except, their 'heavy' bolt pistols are weaker than homemade junk he totes and you get 5 shots from 100 pts squad instead of 6/12 with exploding rolls on 60 pts model twice as accurate. Oh, and they need to deep strike 9 inches away instead of 3 and have zero mechanisms to actually get into melee unlike GSC.
The primaris stalker rifles not only look puny stat-wise next to small biker rifle, if they actually had same damage, MW potential, and free target choice, there would be finally a point to taking stalker squads, even though they would be still much less efficient and much less accurate than GSC guy for more points. Seriously, stalkers on primaris are such garbage no one ever takes them. Why GW didn't fix them by literally copy-pasting GSC rifle profile in CA Intercessors seeing they seemingly know what the sniper issues are given they fixed it with GSC book, I have no idea.
Ditto for primaris bodyguards. They could surely use a few of the rules GSC one packs. Not all, seeing some variety is always nice and there should be some race variation, but today preview made the new primaris kit look really bland in comparison. Vigilus now looks really underwhelming too, on both sides (why they couldn't give CSM Shakespeare some of terror based GSC rule lookalike too?).
Then there are GSC bikes. T4, W2, 4+ save, literally primaris statline. For 10 points. And you can apparently make them 3+ with a trait. Oh, and 14 inch move and -1 to hit. And to make it even funnier, they got power axes from get go. Which primaris still can't take after two years unless on one model in very specific subfaction which then needs to take terrible gun to go with it
And I especially like how random cultists are better than bike riding and vehicle operations than Astartes. Would it kill GW to amend chapter traits in CA to apply to everything like in every other book? I really have no idea why it would be even an issue, seeing what few broken FW models SM have already get to take traits while not a single SM tank would be anywhere near OP with them.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying GSC are OP or anything. That remains to be seen, the only thing I have issue with is why GW can't apply all that creativity to other armies. Virtually all xenos are good to excellent this edition, while power armoured factions are not only bad across the board, only kept afloat by one model or two at best, but also extremely bland and bereft of creative ideas. Primaris not only suffer from lack of options, half of what they have are plainly terrible or don't even work, making them effectively mono-build despite having more options than old SM on most of their models. Sister beta codex is extremely underwhelming and it just a let down all around even compared to their Index. Inquisition is, well, you know. Last 3 editions of GK books are junk compared to wealth of ideas that was 5th edition book. Etc, etc, I am happy for GSC players but it really looks like someone in GW hates PA with a passion and sabotages it on every possible occasion, with band-aids such as tiny point drops or new bolter rule being baby steps while xenos get to prance around willy-nilly...
slave.entity wrote: So a random genestealer cults terrorist dude can fire a heavy weapon off a moving vehicle better than a space marine can fire a boltgun standing still.
He literally snipes fools at BS2 while riding a 14" move dirtbike. Even a winged autarch with reaper launcher and the mark of the incomparable hunter can't do that.
Sniper rifles are Heavy, so she'd be at BS3--unless he's got a specific Cult(Rusted Claw's "Nomadic Survivalists") perk.
I mean yeah, you're not wrong that it's a ballistic skill oriented character that's going to be having good ballistic skill and working out well as such...but is that really such a bad thing?
slave.entity wrote: No need to get all serious and defensive about it guys. We all know 40k is all about absurd scenarios and this is just the latest addition.
Am I the only one who thinks its funny?
Or is this the competitive-discussion-only thread where we're not allowed to make fun of silly fluff discrepancies?
I think it's fething hilarious that these mutant underground terrorist miners are apparently shaping up to be some of the baddest mofos in the galaxy.
I see the humor in it, but after a while your genetic super soldiers have to do something to keep things interesting. I can't blame folks for getting a bit annoyed.
I blame the fact that marines are true north for the game. They are the vanilla ice cream everything else that's more interesting is based off.
Guys gotta lighten up a bit. I want to see that 1000 year old magical space elf get head shot by a terrorist on a dirt bike as much as anyone here. Imagine the look on the eldar player's face...
slave.entity wrote: No need to get all serious and defensive about it guys. Am I the only one who thinks its funny?
Or is this the competitive-discussion-only thread where we're not allowed to make fun of silly fluff discrepancies?
I think it's fething hilarious that these mutant underground terrorist miners are apparently shaping up to be some of the baddest mofos in the galaxy
You seem awfully obsessed with what other people think. As long as no one is criticizing you for thinking it's funny, why do you care so much about whether or not other people think its funny too?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/31 01:31:43
Quick, nobody do the math on how much the re-roll to charge from BT tactics improves your success rate vs the +1 from GSC! Marine CTs are why theyre so bad!
(no, it's because they don't apply to everything and their individual units/stratagems/etc tend to be bad)
PS also don't compare UM to hivecult.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
slave.entity wrote: No need to get all serious and defensive about it guys. Am I the only one who thinks its funny?
Or is this the competitive-discussion-only thread where we're not allowed to make fun of silly fluff discrepancies?
I think it's fething hilarious that these mutant underground terrorist miners are apparently shaping up to be some of the baddest mofos in the galaxy
You seem awfully obsessed with what other people think. As long as no one is criticizing you for thinking it's funny, why do you care so much about whether or not other people think its funny too?
Why not? We're having a friendly discussion here. I think the people in this thread could stand to relax a little bit and not take everything as a personal attack.
Apparently the caster can be buffed to Ld13 and the target can be debuffed to -3 using a combo of various Vigilus rules, traits, or relics meaning that the spell instakills anything Ld10 or lower, regardless of wound count. Day 1 patch incoming? Or maybe we're missing some critical info here.
Copy/pasted more info from the Reddit comment below:
Spoiler:
So I used Excel to simulate Mental Onslaught against various targets, under the assumption that it will say "unit" rather than "model" because Geedubs probably wants all psychic powers for an underselling faction to be useful.
I simulated 30 rolls (don't think units get bigger) for each Mental Onslaught and I did this 2000 times.
Here are the results
TLDR: Holy gak, this makes the patriarch good. Combine with the Horror psychic power from a Tyranid psyker for -1 to enemy leadership to deal an average of ~5 wounds to a LD9 leader, which is "most of them" or if it's actually all models in the unit, then just fething wipe off entire squads of most infantry. And all this is assuming there's no relic that adds leadership. If there is a relic which gives leadership to units close to the holder, then patriarchs are going to become one of the most dangerous units in the entire game, being able to reliably obliterate any target they choose, in a 26+D6" threat range. For the sheer insanity available here, I think that perhaps there's a reason why it's only 1 model.
Edit: Jormungandr monsters can take the Infrasonic Roar relic, which reduces the leadership of models within 6" by 1. Could be useful.
Edit 2: Pretty clear from the maths that you can simply shift them down, but according to u/Khaanik, the iconward gets a LD aura from the vigilus book and I realised you can add the Inspiring Leader warlord trait, resulting in a potential leadership for the Patriarch of 13. If you then use a Jormungandr flyrant with the relic to apply the Horror to a knight (-2 leadership), you can deal an average of TWENTY wounds. Even without the relic, it's still 10.339.
Edit 3: Locus also reduces enemy leadership by 1. This means that with all of that, anything with leadership 10 or lower (reduced to 7, vs your 13.) cannot beat your roll and you instantly kill anything you desire with this power (if you roll 1 and they roll 6, you have 14 and they have 13). A guardsman to a 2000 point tyranid biotitan. Just dead. Instantly. Move over Eldrad, move over Emperor, move over Tzeentch, there's a new Psyker god in town.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/31 02:19:25
You could do similar tricks with Harlequins and a farseer plus Swooping Hawks Exarch casting Mind War. It’s interesting that we get an Ld attack option, but this type of strategy tends to require a lot of buffs/debuffs to go off/be in range to pull off, and hence don’t really work out that well in real life. Just as often you fail one of the psychic rolls and face plant. If this makes the Patroarch better, though, I am all for it. I never take the Patriarch as it stands. Two magi are pretty much always better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 02:21:07
Also the psychic power is only ever going to do wounds to one model. So yeah if you can get into an infinite loop vs an imperial knight, gg knight. But if you do the same thing on a 40 man cultist squad, the most you can kill....is one cultist.
Therein lies the balance IMO. And as others have pointed out, you need multiple psychic powers and buff/debuff auras, plus a relic to do all of that.
TLDR: that’s not how we’re going to kill knights. But oh...we are going to kil knights
Seems like insane character assassination ability is one of the major themes for this release. Their book has incredible tools for point/click deleting single models.
luke1705 wrote: Also the psychic power is only ever going to do wounds to one model. So yeah if you can get into an infinite loop vs an imperial knight, gg knight. But if you do the same thing on a 40 man cultist squad, the most you can kill....is one cultist.
Therein lies the balance IMO. And as others have pointed out, you need multiple psychic powers and buff/debuff auras, plus a relic to do all of that.
TLDR: that’s not how we’re going to kill knights. But oh...we are going to kil knights
Yes, though it feels a little too easy.
Fortunately it's "the roll is higher", which means a standard LD9 v LD10 is 58%. That's pretty easy to slip up on.
-1 is 72%, so 3 to 4 wounds on average.
-2 is 83% (5 to 6 wounds) -- here is where it gets really dangerous
-3 is 92%
If it's an LD8 model then it's much worse, but hopefully those have stayed away from the caster.
I'm going to bring back the topic of codex creep with relation to what we know about the GSC codex, and bring up what I think is really going on.
When 8th Edition first came out, started releasing codexes (codices? codiqueue?) rapidly. Even with lead time, this didn't leave much time to test a bunch of new rules and their interactions (keep all "GW does or doesn't playtest" comments to yourself please). This meant that there was a TON of overlap between the codexes for abilities, stratagems and warlord traits. GW was, if I make my guess, a bit worried about unpredicted interactions and severely unbalanced forces, so they kept things relatively simple for a while. It wasn't until the Dark Eldar Codex that we really started to see a shift away from the previous codexes, and while the Space Wolves were more "8th Ed Standard", Orks have changed it up a bit as well.
What I think we're seeing here is an evolution. Even though I don't play Loyalist Marines, I'm very curious to see what their next codex looks like, or what their next rules add-on looks like. Genestealer Cult seems like it's the first out of the gate in the true second generation of codexes, and I'm assuming everyone else will get the same treatment.
the_scotsman wrote: I am quite curious to see what distinguishes a neophyte squad from a brood bro infantry squad. If brood brothers don't get cult tiles or cult ambush I can see the 5pts vs 4pts being justified bur otherwise I hope neos have some increased stats to justify them existing beyond the 1pt of leadership.
Since this is the kit they're selling for Brood Brothers, I'd assume that it means the Neophytes are losing access to the Guard options, with Brood Brother units being the only way to access them.
Spoiler:
I'm, personally, not too fussed by that. I would not be surprised to see a rudimentary "Orders" mechanism on the unit either.
I suppose this means taking neophytes vs brood brothers will just depend on which weapons you favor in your shooty cult squads. Mining weapons go on neos, and HWT's go with brood brothers.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
Lorek wrote: Yes, but I meant the re-releases for the loyalist codexes. They're bound to be updated somehow, and I don't see GW being averse to this idea.
The great thing about GSC is that they can STILL ally with Tyranids and Astra Militarum. So even if this big release leaves some holes in their lines, they can still supplement all of that with allies.
Now, with GSC getting some really potent charactes and fast new units, they're going to be even better.
the_scotsman wrote: Reading the leaks for the ridge runner it just seems to invalidate the existence of the rock grinder.
For 40 points you get:
2 wounds (with a degrading profile yippee)
6 transport cap.
2 toughness, from 5 to 7 (any marine players want to talk about his much that gets you on your rhinos vs ravagers?)
Crappy dozer blade thing that hits on 5s.
4" less movement and no scout move, no bike buff.
Shame. They could have added something gsc don't have yet with our second of 2 vehicle kits and instead they went the "you must buy the new thing it's the old thing but better" route.
Stats have been leaked? It can transport 4 figures? I did not see that.
>Tau invent complex computer aided laser targeting system to increase their marksmanship
>If five separate guns all hit an enemy, Tau get +1 to shooting
>Gsc give a motorcycle riding bimbo a sniper rifle, hold her beer, and automatically get +1 to shooting
I think it's clear that this book is throwing away the established relationships between stats and fluff. Which is annoying. But the rules themselves seem pretty rad, and should be fun to play with (although that one power may break the freakin game.)
I'll be happy if this is the first in a new trend of codices, and if marines also get updated to be like this.
<Dynasty> 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
~3250pts
Admech (TBN) 
