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GW saw how well horus heresy sold, and now primaris are turning into a full legion setup.

It also makes fluff sense considering the mandate he was working under was pre-codex as well.

what's next? we've now got recon/seekers, line tacticals (intercessors), special weapons units (hellblasters), and a jump element (inceptors), as well as the land raider equivalent (repulsor)

just flipping through the red book, core elements we're missing are a rhino-equivalent, and a veteran equivalent

Surprised that some want these kits to be ETB. I pray that they are multiparts and full of customisation (though I seriously doubt it)

 streetsamurai wrote:
Surprised that some want these kits to be ETB. I pray that they are multiparts and full of customisation (though I seriously doubt it)

That hasn't been the trend with any of the Primaris releases so far. Seems odd that they'd start now.

 Nevelon wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Well these sniper rifles seem based on the bolt rifle. I imagine they use specialist ammo like deathwatch - though perhaps with other options.

If I was a betting man, I’d guess Heavy 1, 36” range, always wounds on a 2+, AP 1, D1 targets characters, and MW’s on a 6+ to wound.

That is rampant speculation based on nothing but the twisted ravings of the voices in my head. YMMV. Don’t quote me on that (unless I’m right, of course )

I’d bet closer to d3 Damage myself.

I like the etb's buy 2 when you buy a 10 marine squad and with the bits you can make a ton of different poses. same goes for the space marine heroes.

I want a cheap way to get troops on the field. it helps me build up my nephews force while saving some $. he said he doesnt care if they look exactly alike.

 WindstormSCR wrote:
GW saw how well horus heresy sold, and now primaris are turning into a full legion setup.

It also makes fluff sense considering the mandate he was working under was pre-codex as well.

what's next? we've now got recon/seekers, line tacticals (intercessors), special weapons units (hellblasters), and a jump element (inceptors), as well as the land raider equivalent (repulsor)

just flipping through the red book, core elements we're missing are a rhino-equivalent, and a veteran equivalent

Any primaris bikes yet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:
I like the etb's buy 2 when you buy a 10 marine squad and with the bits you can make a ton of different poses. same goes for the space marine heroes.

I want a cheap way to get troops on the field. it helps me build up my nephews force while saving some $. he said he doesnt care if they look exactly alike.

Agreed on the cheap part and I also like the EZ part.
Quick to build, paint and field.

I don’t mind easy to build and repeated poses so much, but I dislike the lack of options in them. Ended up getting a full Reavers box so I could use the grapnels from it on the etb ones.

EDIT - nvm I am dumb

 fraser1191 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Eliminators are gonna have ammo types. I wonder if those will be somewhere along the lines of SiA and if these guys will have like 7 ammo types when in Deathwatch

What's your source on this beyond teaser fluff?

Warhammer Community LVO article: "Eliminators are dead-eye snipers. From concealed positions, these expert marksmen target and take out key enemy leaders, utilising a range of exotic and deadly ammunition tailored to their target. No heretic lord or xenos commander is safe."

Teaser fluff aint rules.

And yet reivers were called terror troops and have a rule that affects morale....

I was at the seminar, they said they will have Hellfire rounds and other types as well. ala Deathwatch.

Khalan wrote:
I was at the seminar, they said they will have Hellfire rounds and other types as well. ala Deathwatch.

So they take special ammo away from sternguard and make it DW exclusive, then give it to the new guys?

Are you sure that’s not just for the DW version of the snipers and the codex guys just get a basic profile?

An option removed from Old Marines and subsequently given to New Marines?

Where's the surprised Pikachu when you need him?

Khalan wrote:

I was at the seminar, they said they will have Hellfire rounds and other types as well. ala Deathwatch.

Iiinteresting. Thank you very much.

None of us know what’s even in the box, let alone its rules. We’re all speculating for now – but based on what we’ve seen before.

I do think that it looks like these are easy to build kits. It’s very hard to tell nowadays though, as for the most part easy to build kits are now very good. And the full kits are now less poseable than they once were, with legs designed to fit onto specific torsos for the Primaris guys, for example. The difference between easy to build and full kits is much reduced nowadays anyway. I use the Primaris guys from the starter set alongside the full kit ones and you’d have no idea which was which without picking them up.

Both easy to build and the new more restrictive full kits actually allow for more realistic poses than the traditional multi-part kits let you do. The flat waist joint on oldmarines means you can’t tilt the model’s shoulders relative to its hips, making realistic poses much harder to achieve. Poses like you see on the chaos marine sergeant wouldn’t have been easily possible with oldmarines. If he’s a multi-part kit I’m curious to know how he fits together.

If you look at those three chaos marines it’s pretty clear to me that they don’t fit together like oldmarines. Where are the joins? The guy with the bolter has his gun square to his body in a way that’s common to ETB kits. The running guy has a knife with a handle moulded to his waist and stomach.

Actually, GW is great at cutting minis so it’s possible that these are multipart and I’m just not seeing how they’ve done it. So I’m not sure about this, I’m just saying what it looks like to me. My impression is that these are extremely well-designed monopose minis.

The other thing is the sheer number of models we seem to be getting in the set. So there are three marine characters on the box art, all of them new. Chaos have that spider thing, the sorcerer, CSMs obliterators and what looks like a possessed CSM very prominently in the bottom right of the picture. It’s potentially so many models that it would be weird if they were anything but easy to build.

I hope I’m wrong because I prefer full kits, but that’s what it looks like to me.

Mandragola wrote:
None of us know what’s even in the box, let alone its rules. We’re all speculating for now – but based on what we’ve seen before.

I do think that it looks like these are easy to build kits. It’s very hard to tell nowadays though, as for the most part easy to build kits are now very good. And the full kits are now less poseable than they once were, with legs designed to fit onto specific torsos for the Primaris guys, for example. The difference between easy to build and full kits is much reduced nowadays anyway. I use the Primaris guys from the starter set alongside the full kit ones and you’d have no idea which was which without picking them up.

Both easy to build and the new more restrictive full kits actually allow for more realistic poses than the traditional multi-part kits let you do. The flat waist joint on oldmarines means you can’t tilt the model’s shoulders relative to its hips, making realistic poses much harder to achieve. Poses like you see on the chaos marine sergeant wouldn’t have been easily possible with oldmarines. If he’s a multi-part kit I’m curious to know how he fits together.

If you look at those three chaos marines it’s pretty clear to me that they don’t fit together like oldmarines. Where are the joins? The guy with the bolter has his gun square to his body in a way that’s common to ETB kits. The running guy has a knife with a handle moulded to his waist and stomach.

Actually, GW is great at cutting minis so it’s possible that these are multipart and I’m just not seeing how they’ve done it. So I’m not sure about this, I’m just saying what it looks like to me. My impression is that these are extremely well-designed monopose minis.

The other thing is the sheer number of models we seem to be getting in the set. So there are three marine characters on the box art, all of them new. Chaos have that spider thing, the sorcerer, CSMs obliterators and what looks like a possessed CSM very prominently in the bottom right of the picture. It’s potentially so many models that it would be weird if they were anything but easy to build.

I hope I’m wrong because I prefer full kits, but that’s what it looks like to me.

I'm not convinced.
For ETB kits, they would actually are way to few models unless we have multiple units of the Reivers 2.0 and CSM.
And even then, it would have to include the full BRB to pull equal with Dark Imperium or the AoS starter sets.
And if it would include the BRB, they would market it as the next starter and not the next battle box.

Khalan wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Eliminators are gonna have ammo types. I wonder if those will be somewhere along the lines of SiA and if these guys will have like 7 ammo types when in Deathwatch

What's your source on this beyond teaser fluff?

Warhammer Community LVO article: "Eliminators are dead-eye snipers. From concealed positions, these expert marksmen target and take out key enemy leaders, utilising a range of exotic and deadly ammunition tailored to their target. No heretic lord or xenos commander is safe."

Teaser fluff aint rules.

And yet reivers were called terror troops and have a rule that affects morale....

I was at the seminar, they said they will have Hellfire rounds and other types as well. ala Deathwatch.

I'm skeptical because of how Sternguard were fixed.

At least they'll be easier to make fit in Deathwatch.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I'm skeptical because of how Sternguard were fixed.

At least they'll be easier to make fit in Deathwatch.

I've been wondering, personally, if we're going to see a new CSM and Space Marines book that addresses some of the wonkiness those books have compared to newer ones. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sternguard get SIA again, if not with SIA returning as a unit perk at least a Stratagem.

I'm also wondering if the Eliminaters having access to those rounds is as a Stratagem.

Like GW will buff old toys with new toys to sell... ;-)

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Like GW will buff old toys with new toys to sell... ;-)

Oh, you mean like they literally just did with Vigilus' Victrix Guard Specialist Detachment that calls out Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans?

Yes yes we know, "hurr they won't buff old stuff with new stuff to sell!"...but what exactly is competing with the Sternguard and Vanguard from the Primaris range?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Like GW will buff old toys with new toys to sell... ;-)

Oh, you mean like they literally just did with Vigilus' Victrix Guard Specialist Detachment that calls out Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans?

Yes yes we know, "hurr they won't buff old stuff with new stuff to sell!"...but what exactly is competing with the Sternguard and Vanguard from the Primaris range?

Gotta love a conspiracy theory. Trouble with this one is that GW routinely buffs old stuff as well as new. The points changes in CA buffed loads of old SM stuff, and potentially made land raiders usable (though probably not).

GW's commercial interest is obviously best served by producing the best overall game possible, so that people like their product and buy more of it. They cunningly force us to buy the new shiny stuff because it's new, shiny, and better every time.

Honestly, the funniest concept with the whole thing is that it implies Primaris aren't actually "Meh" outside of Deathwatch or a few select units/builds.

Every time GW releases a new model that's good the cry goes out "codex creep!" "they always make new stuff better!" But when the release a new model that's bad the same people don't seem to notice. There is not really a trend to new stuff being better overall, people just confirmation bias away evidence otherwise. Last I checked those new Ork vehicles aren't sweeping the meta.

or they say 'this is rubbish, far too expensive for the points, why would I buy this and not X'

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Every time GW releases a new model that's good the cry goes out "codex creep!" "they always make new stuff better!" But when the release a new model that's bad the same people don't seem to notice. There is not really a trend to new stuff being better overall, people just confirmation bias away evidence otherwise. Last I checked those new Ork vehicles aren't sweeping the meta.

Yeah, the idea that they deliberately make new stuff awesome to sell has never held water, as there’s easily as much stuff that’s been crap when it was released. They just aren’t fantastic at balance.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Every time GW releases a new model that's good the cry goes out "codex creep!" "they always make new stuff better!" But when the release a new model that's bad the same people don't seem to notice. There is not really a trend to new stuff being better overall, people just confirmation bias away evidence otherwise. Last I checked those new Ork vehicles aren't sweeping the meta.

or the much maligned Primaris.

so, is Abbaddon gonna be IN shadowspear? because if so this is easily my most wanted set in ages

BrianDavion wrote:
so, is Abbaddon gonna be IN shadowspear? because if so this is easily my most wanted set in ages

It is unlikely that he will be in Shadowspear, but if that really is Telion and not just a generic Captain that happens to look like him/has a head option for him...it's possible.

The battleboxes have tended towards generic characters, albeit with names being given to them in the box itself but that doesn't tend to carry over to rules.


With those caveats out of the way, I'm thinking that the way it will work is:
Shadowspear---->Vigilus Book II+Abaddon
Wake the Dead went up on September 29th while Vigilus went up on December 8th.

He will not be in the box set; at the LVO preview they called out the librarian and master of possession as the opposing leaders.

Also, y'know, they'd have probably put him front and center in the promo art...

I'll be honest this box is gonna be a hard sell for me unless either bikes, a small transport, and or SS melee units are included.

The snipers aren't game changing(so far) and neither is the librarian unless he has new powers. I also don't see the new troop choice being significantly better since they would defeat the point of intercessors. I also don't play normal chaos so the half is of no interest.

Umbros wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Every time GW releases a new model that's good the cry goes out "codex creep!" "they always make new stuff better!" But when the release a new model that's bad the same people don't seem to notice. There is not really a trend to new stuff being better overall, people just confirmation bias away evidence otherwise. Last I checked those new Ork vehicles aren't sweeping the meta.

or the much maligned Primaris.

But the 140 point Squigbuggy still takes the cake


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'll be honest this box is gonna be a hard sell for me unless either bikes, a small transport, and or SS melee units are included.

The snipers aren't game changing(so far) and neither is the librarian unless he has new powers. I also don't see the new troop choice being significantly better since they would defeat the point of intercessors. I also don't play normal chaos so the half is of no interest.

Those Vanguard Marines sound more like Elites to me... Still, they seem to carry some kind of sword so if they're troop choices my Space Puppies will rejoice. Will just have to outflank them or wait until a Primaris Rhino EQ arrives (which it will sooner or later).