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Nope, they goofily stated the obvious: that, if you have more than one type of special/sgt weapons options, you're able to equip more than one squad's worth with them.

ceorron wrote:Really liking the look of the new chaos marines, and indeed all of the chaos range now. Chaos is going from the most neglected model wise to one of the better looking armies. Wouldn't start a new army until havocs are sorted so I hope havocs are next on the list to show off.
Congrats GW anyway.

umm Sororitas?

I'm really looking forward to what comes for both Chaos and Loyalists

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).

I'm starting to believe that as well.

ThatMG wrote:
I find it hilariously funny they gave us the rules for chaos shadow spear units for FREE but forgot the whole points costs so like there unplayable outside of Power Level games so...what no one plays so...

You're assuming that they forgot.

Model-wise this is an amazing wave, they've really revitalized the Chaos line.

Rules wise, it's pretty obvious that GW needs to solicit feedback for Chaos like it does for Sisters. They nerfed Cultists AGAIN (while leaving the far superior AM Infantry unscathed), and nerfed Obliterators while actually trumpeting their "new and improved" status. The fact that no one in the rules department understands basic math (charging 70% more for 50% more shots is NOT an improvement!) is disconcerting. I would say that the only thing left to nerf in the CSM book is Daemon Princes and you'd have an entire codex with no tournament-viable units, but Thousand Sons/Death Guard princes already outclass them enough that CSM Princes almost never see play anyway.

Yay Crimson Slaughter rules! Hopefully they buff possessed as that was always part of their thing.

Goddamn GW, tricking me into starting a Black Legion Army...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).

it's be a fools bet to bet against that GW has specificly stated the previewed mini with the chaingun was a Havok.

They stated it was a Havoc?

Would it be cynical, or optimistic to wonder if GW put four different heavy weapons into the chaos Marines kit, thus allowing you to build a Havoc squad out of it, but requiring four of them if you want to focus on a specific weapon?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They stated it was a Havoc?

Yes they did.

Sokhar wrote:
Model-wise this is an amazing wave, they've really revitalized the Chaos line.

Rules wise, it's pretty obvious that GW needs to solicit feedback for Chaos like it does for Sisters. They nerfed Cultists AGAIN (while leaving the far superior AM Infantry unscathed), and nerfed Obliterators while actually trumpeting their "new and improved" status. The fact that no one in the rules department understands basic math (charging 70% more for 50% more shots is NOT an improvement!) is disconcerting. I would say that the only thing left to nerf in the CSM book is Daemon Princes and you'd have an entire codex with no tournament-viable units, but Thousand Sons/Death Guard princes already outclass them enough that CSM Princes almost never see play anyway.

Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.
I agree with you on the cultists though. But I doubt it makes much difference to the meta because cultists weren't being used much for traits anyway. They were mostly used in black legion or iron warriors lists, both of which don't help them much. If they go back to 4 points, or could take special weapons like Guard can, then its okay. But right now this is just a nerf. Maybe they think CSM just arn't used because cultists are too good, rather than realizing its because vanilla marines one one the worst performance vs cost ratioed troops in the game?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They stated it was a Havoc?

the did, the exact quote is "What’s this Havoc carrying? Looks like the Warpsmiths have been cooking up some new guns. Emperor, help us all…"

 warboss wrote:



So in the video, they claim that we'll see how a human shape body fits in the armor as you assemble the model in part by bolting the armor pieces on one at a time. I'm definitely interested in seeing that for myself.

Well that video certainly did it's job - this might be the first model I've bought from GW in a long time purely for the sake of building and painting it(I don't use special characters). What I wouldn't give to have that guy do a modern unit of Indomitus Terminators with roughly Primaris sizing so they also actually fit people inside.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Goddamn GW, tricking me into starting a Black Legion Army...

You'll survive; just be brave. They did it to me back in 3rd edition and I've mostly gotten over it... mostly....

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They stated it was a Havoc?

Yes they did.

Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.

I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They stated it was a Havoc?

Yes they did.

Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.

I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.

well they got +1 to toughness, 2 more shots and a power fist so.. my guess is the points paid for the power fist aren't really worth it in most peoples eyes (although I do like them having it, it ... feels right)

Models look amazing, I'm incredibly excited.

Disappointed that the book doesn't give anything new though. I was really hoping Word Bearers would get a new or improved trait, but that doesn't seem very likely now.

nagash42 wrote:
Yay Crimson Slaughter rules! Hopefully they buff possessed as that was always part of their thing.

In 7th they had Fear, which is basically the Night Lords trait for all intents and purposes. Then there was Possessed as Troops (which amazingly they got before Word Bearers did!)

However, their relic section was pretty tasty to an extent. I don't imagine they'll get a lot of those back.

As I said, I'm still worried about how The Purge are going to be handled. They were always represented via Death Guard as they were originated from there as far as I remember.

I'm loving the new models, but would it have killed them to give Black Legion an actually good trait?

What am I talking about? It's Chaos, of course not.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I'm loving the new models, but would it have killed them to give Black Legion an actually good trait?

What am I talking about? It's Chaos, of course not.

yeah that's how I'm NOT gonna start a black legion army ....

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They stated it was a Havoc?

Yes they did.

Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.

I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.

well they got +1 to toughness, 2 more shots and a power fist so.. my guess is the points paid for the power fist aren't really worth it in most peoples eyes (although I do like them having it, it ... feels right)

What do obliterators do? They deep strike in and they shoot. If they get locked in close combat, they may as well be dead.

The stat boosts, along with the size increase, are, to many players, completely unnecessary. Now obliterators start to suffer from the same problems that helbrutes and daemon engines have: you're paying more for weapons and features you're not going to use. In order to keep points tight in a codex that was already struggling to get into the top brackets, people would happily have kept the cheaper obliterators.

Now, there could be more coming that will help, but I personally was hoping for an update to legion traits. Since that's not happening, I have to hope that the renegade traits and vigilus formations will give this codex a boost.

 warboss wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Goddamn GW, tricking me into starting a Black Legion Army...

You'll survive; just be brave. They did it to me back in 3rd edition and I've mostly gotten over it... mostly....

I can't be trusted. This would be my 5th power armor army! The rest are loyalist, so this would be my first Chaos army. Makes me sort of regret selling the CSM half of Shadowspear.

drbored wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They stated it was a Havoc?

Yes they did.

Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.

I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.

well they got +1 to toughness, 2 more shots and a power fist so.. my guess is the points paid for the power fist aren't really worth it in most peoples eyes (although I do like them having it, it ... feels right)

What do obliterators do? They deep strike in and they shoot. If they get locked in close combat, they may as well be dead.

The stat boosts, along with the size increase, are, to many players, completely unnecessary. Now obliterators start to suffer from the same problems that helbrutes and daemon engines have: you're paying more for weapons and features you're not going to use. In order to keep points tight in a codex that was already struggling to get into the top brackets, people would happily have kept the cheaper obliterators.

Now, there could be more coming that will help, but I personally was hoping for an update to legion traits. Since that's not happening, I have to hope that the renegade traits and vigilus formations will give this codex a boost.

I kinda disagree. With their new crushing fists. Now if they get into combat, they pack a pretty mean punch! They are by no means dead now. In fact, you might be surprised how many different kind of units in general they would 'obliterate" in close combat now. I would venture that after their change, anything less than a dedicated combat unit would now get stomped by Obliterators in a melee fight. In fact, if Oblits get off a charge on a dedicated but fragile unit and some death to the false emperor goes off. They may do so much damage the return strike won't phase them either. That d3 damage now on the new crushing fist is no joke.

Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.

Watch these renegade traits be better than the Codex traits.

Also, everyone freaking out about how you can build 'two sqads of five' out of one box. Yes, you can already do that with the current Chaos Marine box. You put a heavy weapon in one squad of five and a special weapon in another and then model two of the ten to be the aspiring champs, which can be bolter-carriers. If you're expecting more than one of each special weapon, prepare for disappointment. That said, the image didn't have any duplicate bodies, so there won't be 'two sprues of 5' in there either.

drbored wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.

Watch these renegade traits be better than the Codex traits.

My Legion that I'll be adding a Scourged detachment to is Thousand Sons so I don't think I'll have a problem with that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My cynicism kicks into overdrive here.

The elaborate and loving description of the box's possibilities (all of which are possible with the current box and have always been so since it changed from 8 to 10 miniatures) just looks like a smokescreen to me, like they know we don't like the far less modular and limited way recent kits have been made, so they're talking up the fact that the car has a steering wheel and an engine like they're somehow new...

I haven't heard of The Scourged, but everyone saying they like the name drop alone makes me excited for them.

drbored wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.

Watch these renegade traits be better than the Codex traits.

Also, everyone freaking out about how you can build 'two sqads of five' out of one box. Yes, you can already do that with the current Chaos Marine box. You put a heavy weapon in one squad of five and a special weapon in another and then model two of the ten to be the aspiring champs, which can be bolter-carriers. If you're expecting more than one of each special weapon, prepare for disappointment. That said, the image didn't have any duplicate bodies, so there won't be 'two sprues of 5' in there either.

It'd be hard for them to get worse then some of the Legion traits :(

the "parts for 2 squads of 5" thing seems to honestly be a common thing from GW, they seem to have learned most players run their marines 5 man squads

BrianDavion wrote:
the "parts for 2 squads of 5" thing seems to honestly be a common thing from GW, they seem to have learned most players run their marines 5 man squads

But again, it's nothing you couldn't do already with the existing 40K CSM kit.

Talking up a "feature" that isn't in any way new strikes me as odd.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I haven't heard of The Scourged, but everyone saying they like the name drop alone makes me excited for them.

The Scourged are the most "prominent" non-Thousand Sons Tzeentch CSM faction (prominent in air quotes because they've just been in a few paragraph-long codex blurbs). They originally worked for the Inquisition, murdering politically inconvenient people under the pretense of fighting heresy. The Chapter Master suspected the Inquisition was deceiving his chapter on the validity of their targets, and gave a prayer to the Emperor asking to know true from lie. The Emperor, being the useless corpse and false god, that he is, did not answer.

Tzeentch did, and now the entire chapter is cursed with the echoes of every lie told by humanity in their minds. They're really cool!