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 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Honestly, what more do people want? The updated chaos marines and terminators aren't super exciting, but why should they be? They are updated improved sculpts of existing units, with additional options included that weren't in the previous kit. They aren't a total re-imagining, but who wants that? They are just an improved sculpt. I kind of like that if you already own tons of chaos marines and terminators, you don't have to buy the new ones to get some great newly invented weapon that didn't exist for the old unit. They just look better.

Says you. These updates are what I've been waiting 12+ years for. The new models are SHARP, they've got a lot more flavor to them, and I know some people are butthurt by the new design philosophy for Chaos, but I love it. I refused to buy the old Chaos Marines because I knew new ones were coming. Now? I can go whole hog. The variety that you'll get just with Chaos marines by mixing the Shadowspear box with the full kit will be awesome.

As for the Terminators, we've seen one picture. There's a lot more upgrades, heads, weapon options, and other things that are sure to be in the box.

Are they reinventing the wheel with all of this? No, but they're giving us a wheel that's a smoother ride and looks a lot better on our cars. What you're saying is the equivalent of 'should have kept the older, worse-looking wheel'.

 Irbis wrote:

They didn't tho?

They had 5 pairs of different, nice ones, based on antelopes, rhinos, mammoths, elephants, etc, these have lazy, boring same-same boar tusks.

Funny, here I thought the full kit and its contents had not yet been announced. What insight you have from a single picture.

I'm surprised with the new Terminators being shown, that they haven't pulled the old ones yet.

With Terminators are getting redone, the strong implication of havoc squads and a new Dark Apostle... there aren't that many things left.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I'm surprised with the new Terminators being shown, that they haven't pulled the old ones yet.

With Terminators are getting redone, the strong implication of havoc squads and a new Dark Apostle... there aren't that many things left.

Havoc Squads were outright confirmed when the Abaddon reveal video dropped.



I'd imagine that we'll see the Havocs previewed with Iron Warriors and Dark Apostles with the Word Bearers, Sorcerer with Night Lords and any potential Cultist kit(they're currently "NO LONGER AVAILABLE ONLINE" in the US) with Alpha Legion.

So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...

Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?

Only the terminators, and they could've been a bit more baroque but they are good imo

 Red Corsair wrote:

Voss wrote:
Hmmm. The 'heretic Astarte's focus index' has me a little disappointed. Partly because world eaters and emperors children are in there, partly because renegades are a catchall (which doesn't really match up with special rules for specific renegade groups)

Well what did you expect? They need to have something for World Eater and Emperors Children players to utilize in the interim of potential stand alone books.

Was hoping for the chapter approved situation, where something coming soon doesn't eat space. So, as a sort of subtle alert that EC and WE will get their own books soonish.

The slaanesh range is so close to done, I'm looking for whatever signs I can find.

Might be suggestive that they’re close to release, and this is a literal stopgap.

Especially weird to announce the terminators this way, and in an article that encourages you to order some terminators with your Abaddon, and then shows a picture of the terminators you can't order yet. " If you’re picking up Abaddon, it’d almost be rude not to grab a bunch of Terminators to represent the Bringers of Despair as well."

 Crimson wrote:
So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...

Geeks being inconsistent and whiny by nature? Say it isn't so!

 Crimson wrote:
So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...

To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.

Hmm... so those are the new Termies huh?

They've ditched the blades on their guns and given them more side-by-side combi-weapons, likely to have combi-weapons where you pick what the second gun is on each one. No giant double-handed mace like in that artwork either.

There's nothing that makes these models pop like the redone Power Armour buys.

Weird choice for a refresh.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Especially weird to announce the terminators this way, and in an article that encourages you to order some terminators with your Abaddon, and then shows a picture of the terminators you can't order yet. " If you’re picking up Abaddon, it’d almost be rude not to grab a bunch of Terminators to represent the Bringers of Despair as well."

Honestly, I think it was actually a good way to do it.

They snuck in a preview of a new kit as part of a themed faction focus without doing what(I guarantee you!) someone would have complained about as a "marketing drive".

 Red_Five wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...

To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.

This. A lot of Chaos Players feel very slighted by GW ever since the blandening post 3.5th edition codex. We're hoping for good rules again to at least make us decently competitive and to bring regular power armor back into the limelight.

Ignore the people that are complaining about the models in any situation. There will always be complainers. You simply can't please everyone.

For every person that says "These look great!" you'll have five others that say "WAAAAAAAH, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY AESTHETIC!!! WAAAAAAH!!" and with that it will seem like they are louder and more numerous... but for every five of THEM there are 20 lurkers that are like "Hey, these look great!"

 Alpharius wrote:
Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?

I'm, gonna say no






they all look pretty good to me, someone wanting a "cleaner less chaos aestetic" might not like the new kit, but they have the MK3 and MK4 armor kits for that

Not Online!!! wrote:
Only the terminators, and they could've been a bit more baroque but they are good imo

I completely agree. I have always considered Araghast the Pillager from Dawn of War II: Chaos Rising (See spoiler below) to be the gold standard of terminator armor design with maybe the exception of the flayed skin face. I always preferred his helmet to that of the tusked ones and added as many as I could to mine own terminators. These new terminators could use just a little more 'baroque' (read: busy) to me, but I am sure they will fit right in with the terminators I already have well enough.

Araghast the Pillager


My current Black Legion Terminators


I am certainly going to pick up a set of them. It will definitely be nice to have more than combi-meltas for bolter options. I do hope their is a decent amount of options in the kit especially helmets.

I do like the new stratagems as they don't alter my army much since I already ran a Sorcerer in Terminator armor, two 5 man squads of terminators and a Hellbrute in a Vanguard deteachment. The Hellbrute was only there because I didn't have another squad of terminators. I know it is far from the best, but I really like terminators, so I always run them. Now I have some Stratagems I know I will actually use good or bad.

As for the Tip of the Spear Stratagem, I also think it should have a non-close combat clause which would make it really useful since my aura buffers usually are next to the units closest to the enemy particularly during the early game. Again, I am sure these rules aren't going to revolutionize Chaos Space Marines, but for a pretty casual 40k player who usually runs a heavy marine and terminator army already, these look like they will at least help out some.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Only the terminators, and they could've been a bit more baroque but they are good imo

I completely agree. I have always considered Araghast the Pillager from Dawn of War II: Chaos Rising (See spoiler below) to be the gold standard of terminator armor design with maybe the exception of the flayed skin face. I always preferred his helmet to that of the tusked ones and added as many as I could to mine own terminators. These new terminators could use just a little more 'baroque' (read: busy) to me, but I am sure they will fit right in with the terminators I already have well enough.

Araghast the Pillager

Spoiler:

My current Black Legion Terminators

Spoiler:

I am certainly going to pick up a set of them. It will definitely be nice to have more than combi-meltas for bolter options. I do hope their is a decent amount of options in the kit especially helmets.

I do like the new stratagems as they don't alter my army much since I already ran a Sorcerer in Terminator armor, two 5 man squads of terminators and a Hellbrute in a Vanguard deteachment. The Hellbrute was only there because I didn't have another squad of terminators. I know it is far from the best, but I really like terminators, so I always run them. Now I have some Stratagems I know I will actually use good or bad.

As for some Tip of the Spear Stratagem, I also think it should have a non-close combat clause which would make it really useful since my aura buffers usually are next to the units closest to the enemy particularly during the early game. Again, I am sure these rules aren't going to revolutionize Chaos Space Marines, but for a pretty casual 40k player who usually runs a heavy marine and terminator army already, these look like they will at least help out some.

I feel like they will fit perfectly for my little warband, that said i want to know what that havoc Rotor cannon does and sincerly hope that it is a hades autocannon.

I think you're really in luck Carvilli as it appears that the new kit even has the sword that your chosen example has!

Yay! More Tusky Termies!!!!!

Super glad they didn't change the style of them too much, they look great!

Hoping that the kit was made to take into account alternate sprues for specific factions of CSM. Would love IW, NW, WB, & AL centric Terminator options. I feel like the World Eaters, and Emp Chillies need their own sculpts of terminiators though. Why should Nurgle and Tzeentch have all the fun? At least FW did Khorne-centric ones. But I suppose those wouldn't be usable now that they're probably going to retire the current CSM Termie plastic kit (since they were just add ons for that).



Would love if they went more like Zhufor's helmet, for WE ones, with the roaring mouth and big fangs on them.

I don't believe Slaanesh has ever had terminators, aside from the never released 'multi-God' Terminator lord kit.

drbored wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...

To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.

This. A lot of Chaos Players feel very slighted by GW ever since the blandening post 3.5th edition codex. We're hoping for good rules again to at least make us decently competitive and to bring regular power armor back into the limelight.

Ignore the people that are complaining about the models in any situation. There will always be complainers. You simply can't please everyone.

For every person that says "These look great!" you'll have five others that say "WAAAAAAAH, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY AESTHETIC!!! WAAAAAAH!!" and with that it will seem like they are louder and more numerous... but for every five of THEM there are 20 lurkers that are like "Hey, these look great!"

This. I find the direction they are going very encouraging. They are re-doing the existing models, not introducing new ones that would take chaos in a radically new direction (ala Primaris.) This is good. I like what Chaos is. It doesn't need to be changed, it needs to be executed properly.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...

To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.

This. A lot of Chaos Players feel very slighted by GW ever since the blandening post 3.5th edition codex. We're hoping for good rules again to at least make us decently competitive and to bring regular power armor back into the limelight.

Ignore the people that are complaining about the models in any situation. There will always be complainers. You simply can't please everyone.

For every person that says "These look great!" you'll have five others that say "WAAAAAAAH, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY AESTHETIC!!! WAAAAAAH!!" and with that it will seem like they are louder and more numerous... but for every five of THEM there are 20 lurkers that are like "Hey, these look great!"

This. I find the direction they are going very encouraging. They are re-doing the existing models, not introducing new ones that would take chaos in a radically new direction (ala Primaris.) This is good. I like what Chaos is. It doesn't need to be changed, it needs to be executed properly.

Exactly. They're doing enough by making Daemon Engines and giving us a broader variety of those to pull away from the old complaints of 'Well, space marines get that, so why don't Chaos marines get a Chaos variant of it?' which got old real fast.

I just want another tentacle arm that has no real rules attached to it.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I feel like they will fit perfectly for my little warband, that said i want to know what that havoc Rotor cannon does and sincerly hope that it is a hades autocannon.

I will be happy to just have plastic Havocs. I haven't been all that keen on CSM vehicles (too much $$$ for a plastic box) and don't want to deal with finecast/resin (which is also too much $$$) for the Havocs that did exist. If the autocannon spits a decent amount of dakka, I might think about creating a second anti-infantry Havoc squad. But right now, my army could really use lascannons or even missile launchers. My current army has a Land Raider more as a battle tank than anything else since the next best ranged anti-armor I have is a Ectoplasma forgefiend or maybe my Havoc Launcher Rhinos. Sad but true.

Kanluwen wrote:I think you're really in luck Carvilli as it appears that the new kit even has the sword that your chosen example has!

I completely forgot the old kit only had fists (chain and power), power axes and power mauls. I guess it also had combi-flamers. I modeled one of them with it, but I usually ignore it or say that is my count-as combi-plasma.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?

I'm, gonna say no

Spoiler:

they all look pretty good to me, someone wanting a "cleaner less chaos aestetic" might not like the new kit, but they have the MK3 and MK4 armor kits for that

The Night Lords scheme looks particularly good, in my opinion.

 Alpharius wrote:
Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?

That was the case with the old models as well. They eye of horus and the eight pointed star being very prevalent on the iconography always made heavy converting necessary for cult legions.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... so those are the new Termies huh?

They've ditched the blades on their guns and given them more side-by-side combi-weapons, likely to have combi-weapons where you pick what the second gun is on each one. No giant double-handed mace like in that artwork either.

There's nothing that makes these models pop like the redone Power Armour buys.

Weird choice for a refresh.

Unless that mace was for a Lord in Termie armor, or is part of the kit, but not shown in the photograph?

ImAGeek wrote:
The Night Lords scheme looks particularly good, in my opinion.

I always felt to do the Night lords properly, you didn't need the lightning effect on their armor, but they kinda do need the winged helmets. These are nice though. Me, I like the Word Bearers color scheme. Not as much as Black Legion, but I do think crimson and steel work great together. I think maybe the GW example went a little too bright on their Word Bearer mostly with the steel. I think it reads too white and not grey-metallic.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?

That was the case with the old models as well. They eye of horus and the eight pointed star being very prevalent on the iconography always made heavy converting necessary for cult legions.

Yes and no. I mean Horus was the Warmaster of all traitor legions, so some warbands might still honor (or shame him wearing his symbol openly) even if they completely now pledge themselves to one of the four. Horus was their stooge champion. At the same time, I could see a player wanting to create a warband that wants nothing to do with Horus and not wanting to use any of the Eye of Horus stuff. The Chaos star is just an icon of Chaos though. It gets used a lot for Chaos Undivided in place of any other icon, but I don't think it is actually the symbol for it. It just indicates Chaos and is neutral of any particular god.

As much as I like the Primaris, these guys make me sad that we probably wont see a loyalist Tartarus redo outside of the SM heroes line.

Edit eeep I meant Indomitus

GoatboyBeta wrote:
As much as I like the Primaris, these guys make me sad that we probably wont see a loyalist Tartarus redo outside of the SM heroes line.

Go renegade. Raise the sword of rebellion against the Guilliman and his minions!