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2019/01/23 23:04:26
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
So I see the whole roll of reivers which is a specialised lightning strike unit who use stealth. The question is will gw replace scouts with reivers in future or even just make a new scout equivalent?
Are there any examples in the fluff of scouts being turned prinaris
2019/01/23 23:06:34
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Very likely. I believe every Primaris released thus far is intended as an analogue to an already existing role:
Scouts -> Reivers
Tacticals -> Intercessors
Devastators -> Hellblasters
Assault Marines -> Inceptors
Terminators -> Aggressors
Dreadnought -> Redemptor Dreadnought
Rhino/Razorback/Land Raider -> Repulsor
And I fully expect each of the old roles above to be completely retired at some time in the - hopefully distant - future. I don't see any reason why Games-Workshop ought to feel beholden to the idea of "Neophytes," unless the community kicks up a fuss.
2019/01/24 05:42:39
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Very likely. I believe every Primaris released thus far is intended as an analogue to an already existing role:
Scouts -> Reivers
Tacticals -> Intercessors
Devastators -> Hellblasters
Assault Marines -> Inceptors
Terminators -> Aggressors
Dreadnought -> Redemptor Dreadnought
Rhino/Razorback/Land Raider -> Repulsor
And I fully expect each of the old roles above to be completely retired at some time in the - hopefully distant - future. I don't see any reason why Games-Workshop ought to feel beholden to the idea of "Neophytes," unless the community kicks up a fuss.
Except neither Aggressors or Reivers fulfill the same role as scouts, and both are inferior.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2019/01/24 06:27:00
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Very likely. I believe every Primaris released thus far is intended as an analogue to an already existing role:
Scouts -> Reivers
Tacticals -> Intercessors
Devastators -> Hellblasters
Assault Marines -> Inceptors
Terminators -> Aggressors
Dreadnought -> Redemptor Dreadnought
Rhino/Razorback/Land Raider -> Repulsor
And I fully expect each of the old roles above to be completely retired at some time in the - hopefully distant - future. I don't see any reason why Games-Workshop ought to feel beholden to the idea of "Neophytes," unless the community kicks up a fuss.
Except neither Aggressors or Reivers fulfill the same role as scouts, and both are inferior.
I won't argue that the analogues are good.
2019/01/24 06:48:02
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Basically in want to buy some scouts but worry they will be retconned some time in the future!
I wonder what the process of making Primaris is? Is it the exact same as normal marines or do they just make them straight into a Primaris instead of doing the neophyte stage
2019/01/24 23:42:20
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
I'm not sure what that slot is, specifically, but they're filling... something. And hey, I'm one of the odd people that really actually likes the general idea. There was a good short story in the recent White Dwarf about them scaling up spires in a hive city, and I think it's cool for Space Marines to have a 'lightweight, fast' variation of their power armor.
Scouts, however, are pretty solid and they do what they do, and Reivers can't cover that.
Until GW decides to merge Primaris and OldMarines into one hybrid thing or outright discontinue OldMarines and add more to the Primaris line... Scouts are gonna be around for a while.
But Good Lord are they in dire need of a new kit.
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2019/01/28 16:27:56
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
This is the thing, has there been any info in books about how new Primaris are made? Is it exactly the same process as before but it's just a different end result?
2019/01/28 16:36:09
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
The problem is that Reivers are the weakest of the analogues.
Intercessors are clearly Primaric Tacs
Aggressors are Primaris Terminators
Hellblasters are Primaris Devs, etc
But Reivers are not really like Scouts at all, save their forward advancing tactics. But I'd argue that they are more like Assault Marine without jump packs than like Scouts.
There is also the fact that Reivers are NOT Troops like Scouts.
So for me, there is just too many differences for Reivers and Scouts to be considered equivalents to one another
Trying to rewrite some of my homebrew chapter lore to fit Primaris, I encountered the same question. I agree though they are more like Assault Marines than Scouts. Fast at least through ruins with grapnels, get deep strike, essentially have a chainsword. I believe like Aggressors and Hellblasters both share the Fire Support role, Inceptors and Reivers both share Close Assault roles, and only Interceptors are Battleline. Not to mention Reivers are deployed along with Aggressors in the Elites part of the list rather than Fast Attack. In the field they do look like they do similar roles, ranging wide of the enemy, gathering intel, annihilating patrols, laying traps and ambushes so they can strike at the enemy's flanks when the main force engages in battle.
As for what Scouts actually do on the tabletop rather than the lore, they are the cheap bulk troop choice to support the Tactical core of the old gun line if you had them, spread out, infiltrate and scout move into no man's land and deny area and apply pressure.
Reivers deep strike or outflank and make surgical hits to break the enemy rank, remove an enemy's vital unit or force a distraction to allow the main force to go about its business, more like an Assault Squad or Vanguard Veteran Squad.
Back to the lore, some chapters don't run their neophytes as scouts. The Templars famously run their tactical squads with their neophytes as Crusader Squads and usually tend toward short fire support with special weapons and shotguns or heaps of bolters, or close combat, while others run veteran marines in the Scout Company like the Space Wolves. On the other hand, a Reiver is by definition a fully fledged Primaris marine who has undergone training, all implantation and given his battle armour. A chapter that runs experienced marines in their scout Company could employ Reivers in this role instead of regular scouts, besides snipers and camo cloaks they have roughly equivalent equipment. Bolt Carbines/Bolters, Heavy Pistols/Shotguns at S5, though the Reiver's have that load hybridised with the pistol and combat knife. Instead of Camo they get better armour and get rapid insertion options with their equipment instead of concealed positions.
However, most chapters do train their neophytes by combat in the 10th Company before their promotion to full Battle-Brother, so I doubt this radical shift would change procedure for many chapters.
I don't see Reivers actually replacing the Scouts for a long long time, though I am convinced many chapters would second some Reivers to Scout deployments. Maybe the 10th Company could run ~80 Scouts and ~20 Reivers if the chapter caps their Scout Company at all.
Pain is the illusion of the weak body. Fear is the illusion of a weak mind.
2019/01/29 16:46:19
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Primaris, at least other than the ones Cawl and Rouboute handed out like party favors from his cold storage, are trained and made in the same way as any other marine. The only difference is in the later stages of implantation, they get 3 new parts Cawl worked into the process.
Sinew Coils, the Magnificat and the Belisarian Furnace.
The coils are durametallic fiber mesh through their muscle structures, not I suppose unlike the electropolymer and fiber bundles in power armour itself, and act as durable, powerful artifical muscle. The Magnificat is part of the immortis gland the Emperor put in the Primarchs but Cawl only found some of the genetic blueprints. Whether the Emperor himself destroyed the records or other forces is unknown. It interfaces with the biscopea and osmodula and helps bulk the marine up. The Furnace is a gland between their primary and new heart that can release a massive healing boost and adrenaline rush, like a dose of combat stimms.
Honestly, the only reason Primaris units can't just fight like normal marines is Gulliman's decree to follow the old single armament legion style. I would love to see Primaris Tacticals with a Las Talon, Plasma Incinerator and Bolt Rifles. Deathwatch can kinda run these, besides stuck with Incnerator, Bolt Rifle variants with Reivers/Aggressors/Inceptors mixed in.
Pain is the illusion of the weak body. Fear is the illusion of a weak mind.
2019/01/30 17:59:32
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Come 9th edition Old Marines will be relegated to "Index Only" status or perhaps even "Just use them as "Counts as" Primaris Marines" because GW can't copyright the name "Space Marine".
2019/01/30 19:04:36
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Very likely. I believe every Primaris released thus far is intended as an analogue to an already existing role:
Scouts -> Reivers
Tacticals -> Intercessors
Devastators -> Hellblasters
Assault Marines -> Inceptors
Terminators -> Aggressors
Dreadnought -> Redemptor Dreadnought
Rhino/Razorback/Land Raider -> Repulsor
And I fully expect each of the old roles above to be completely retired at some time in the - hopefully distant - future. I don't see any reason why Games-Workshop ought to feel beholden to the idea of "Neophytes," unless the community kicks up a fuss.
I'd kick up a fuss. I'm in the middle of paying someone to commission what is essentially an entire space marine scout army, replete with custom angry marine scenes, dioramas, artwork, illustrations - I'd be pissed.
I'd kick up a fuss. I'm in the middle of paying someone to commission what is essentially an entire space marine scout army, replete with custom angry marine scenes, dioramas, artwork, illustrations - I'd be pissed.
That sounds utterly rad, I wish you the best for a legion of Angry Scouts.
Pain is the illusion of the weak body. Fear is the illusion of a weak mind.
2019/01/30 22:53:17
Subject: Re:Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
No, I don't think so. Reivers are melee and terror specialists at the end of the day. On the other hand, Scouts are stealth specialists who chiefly wield ranged weapons. Codex-wise, they don't line up. Not to mention the fact that Guilliman despised the similar 22nd Chapter of the Ultramarines back in the day.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/30 22:54:20
The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.
Scouts represent an important part of marine creation, specifically the implantation of human recruits with the marine organs, resculping of their bodies with hormones and inculcating the recruits in the chapter ethos.
We're told that the only difference between a normal marine and a Primaris marine is the addition of two extra organs, so there is nothing to suggest these new recruits wouldn't require the same acclimatisation and education process. I think Chapters would also be reluctant to change their recruitment process wholesale, the Primaris let out of cold storage from a time when these processes didn't exist is in fact a major point of tension in the lore.
In addition, the huge stocks of stable geneseed made available to chapters by Cawl and Guilliman should have increased by recruitment and implantation success rates. So there should actually be more scouts now than in previous centuries!
As to whether the GW commercial department with obsolete the scout model range, I don't think that is a topic for the background forum
2019/02/09 08:48:28
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Eliminators are dead-eye snipers. From concealed positions, these expert marksmen target and take out key enemy leaders, utilising a range of exotic and deadly ammunition tailored to their target.
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2019/02/09 10:13:00
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Andykp wrote: It certainly looks like they will replace the classic scout battle field roles. The recruitment part seems a grey area at the minute.
The thing with the recruitment is the specific primaris implants. When not implanted when the other implants are it is seen as dangerous like with Calgary.
This means that any new primaris recruits already seem to have skipped the scout stage of sorts.
I assume they learn all the skills in training whilst the body grows and graduate straight to the primaris role they are given.
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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2019/02/10 00:03:14
Subject: Will space marine scouts be replaced by reivers?
Oh my. Yeah, those Eliminators remind me strongly of the FWHH Recon Squads the legions would have used, I guess the G-Man is bringing a few more units forward. I would love to see the 40k Primaris version of a destroyer squad. I guess Inceptors are actually modernised, non-psychotic moritats as well. The Victrix Guards are a lot like the Ultramarine Suzerain squad. Turns out 40k 9th will actually be 30k with AoS rules. Who knew.
Pain is the illusion of the weak body. Fear is the illusion of a weak mind.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
