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 Wyrmalla wrote:
Wait, those heads are coming from Games Workshop? Oh. Oh...

They look bad. Like, really, really bad. The proportions are both shallow in places, and exaggerated in others. For one the noses are just awful. Neither do they look particularly feminine. And overall there isn't a great deal of detail, instead going for a chunkier approach which I guess is to fit in with some aesthetic, but which is the opposite of what some of their competitors have been doing with their own figures.

And I say all of this, as they must know that Statuesque Miniatures exists. That company will certainly be seeing a bump in sales for their products if Games Workshop are putting out this sort of quality. :/

Renders are generally more exaggerated in certain places, because parts have to be for the mould to catch the details. They’ll probably look a lot better in plastic.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Wait, those heads are coming from Games Workshop? Oh. Oh...

They look bad. Like, really, really bad. The proportions are both shallow in places, and exaggerated in others. For one the noses are just awful. Neither do they look particularly feminine. And overall there isn't a great deal of detail, instead going for a chunkier approach which I guess is to fit in with some aesthetic, but which is the opposite of what some of their competitors have been doing with their own figures.

And I say all of this, as they must know that Statuesque Miniatures exists. That company will certainly be seeing a bump in sales for their products if Games Workshop are putting out this sort of quality. :/

Renders are generally more exaggerated in certain places, because parts have to be for the mould to catch the details. They’ll probably look a lot better in plastic.

I'm aware, but that's not what I'm seeing here...

I'm the only one that doesn't like Statuesque Heads? They look just too... inhumane to me. Too... statuesque?

 Galas wrote:
I'm the only one that doesn't like Statuesque Heads? They look just too... inhumane to me. Too... statuesque?

I don't like any of their models.
Just took a look at their out of focus site.
All their males give comically large noses and their female heads all have Mohawks and cyborg eyes.
No thanks.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm the only one that doesn't like Statuesque Heads? They look just too... inhumane to me. Too... statuesque?

I don't like any of their models.
Just took a look at their out of focus site.
All their males give comically large noses and their female heads all have Mohawks and cyborg eyes.
No thanks.

Not that I have any investment in that company, but I'd have to interject. This is a misrepresentation of their ranges. Out of their "Heroic Scale" heads, 1/5th have Bionic eyes ...presumably as they're in their specific heads with bionics sets, and the same again for mohawks - as Bionics =/= cyberpunk. The male figures with the large noses seem to be in their cartoony fantasy range (where most are Dwarves or an old wizard), with not many of the men from the Pulp range have out of proportion faces. Whilst the two sci-fi men have large noses, they aren't comically large, but well chalk it up to personal taste.

So whilst I can admit that yes, Statuesque Miniatures may not be for everyone, the sculpts shown in that image from Games Workshop are unobjectively poor, and not what I would expect from a professional.

SW are an interesting case (as are Necrons). They underwent a series of releases that took their established aesthetic in a markedly different direction than previously. And some people have complained that this is the wrong direction, in their opinion. They already liked SW; they consider dramatically changing the faction focus to emphasize some kind of cartoonish werewolf theme as a negative. I certainly sympathize with people who like SW less because of the changes. I symapthize with people who would like to see development BACK to the previous direction.

This is very different from Sisters. As a playable faction, Sisters have never undergone a major shift in design. There is a unified, coherent aesthetic that has become iconic.

Going back to Necrons. I like the changes GW made to them. But I will readily admit that’s because I thought they were reallly boring before, despite the fact I liked the basic design of the Necron Warrior. I didn’t like Necrons as a faction, however (I certainly didn’t claim to be a fan) — which is exactly why I like the fact that GW changed them. But I didn’t show up in every Necron thread arguing that they should be radically redesigned to suit my taste because I’m a fan and I have special insight into how they should be. Rather, the changes came around and I took a greater interest in Necrons than previously.

 Manchu wrote:
Going back to Necrons. I like the changes GW made to them. But I will readily admit that’s because I thought they were reallly boring before, despite the fact I liked the basic design of the Necron Warrior. I didn’t like Necrons as a faction, however (I certainly didn’t claim to be a fan) — which is exactly why I like the fact that GW changed them. But I didn’t show up in every Necron thread arguing that they should be radically redesigned to suit my taste because I’m a fan and I have special insight into how they should be. Rather, the changes came around and I took a greater interest in Necrons than previously.

Excluding the definition of a 'radical' change in this context, which can be debated at a later date;

In the hypothetical situation that a player would have a similar approach to SoB as described in your necron example, do you feel those people should not be allowed to discuss those opinions in the SoB threads?

In what other faction's threads would those discussions be more appropriate?

What if they already have some level of interest in the faction (certainly more than you describe you had with the oldcrons) but still prefer that some changes be made?

In the far future, Nuns have pig noses

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
In the far future, Nuns have pig noses

Fwiw, assuming you mean the lower right one, I have seen people IRL with more pig-like noses than that.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Wait, those heads are coming from Games Workshop? Oh. Oh...

They look bad. Like, really, really bad. The proportions are both shallow in places, and exaggerated in others. For one the noses are just awful. Neither do they look particularly feminine. And overall there isn't a great deal of detail, instead going for a chunkier approach which I guess is to fit in with some aesthetic, but which is the opposite of what some of their competitors have been doing with their own figures.

And I say all of this, as they must know that Statuesque Miniatures exists. That company will certainly be seeing a bump in sales for their products if Games Workshop are putting out this sort of quality. :/

I like the new heads. I do think they look feminine, and yeah, some of the features are a bit out of whack on the initial renders, but considering the work GW has been coming out with, I like the synthases of nun/80's punk/modern soldier. I don't like the satuesque's take on that aesthetic.

Ashiraya, it’s never been about who is allowed to say what they want. That’s sort of a fundamental misconception, that we’re debating who gets to post their opinion. Anyone can post their opinion, obviously. But that opinion is also up for analysis. And it’s worth pointing out that some peole, like myself, want new Sisters models as opposed to other people, seemingly including you, who want a new take on Sisters. That’s a radical difference in perspective.

 Manchu wrote:
SW are an interesting case (as are Necrons). They underwent a series of releases that took their established aesthetic in a markedly different direction than previously.

This is very different from Sisters. As a playable faction, Sisters have never undergone a major shift in design.

You don't say...


Any change is only likely to screw things up.

 Manchu wrote:
And it’s worth pointing out that some peole, like myself, want new Sisters models as opposed to other people, seemingly including you, who want a new take on Sisters. That’s a radical difference in perspective.

For me those are not mutually exclusive, mind you.

More to the point, why did you argue for the non-participation of the latter group by using yourself as the example with Necrons if you did not intend to have that effect?

There's always the old Repentia art.



Though stepping back on the bondage gear and having them wear a mix of the existing cloth elements featured on the regular Sisters models, along with wrapped scripture could work too. Less sexualised nuns, and more raving flagellants (though given the regular Sisters are wearing corsets and have boob armour, that's maybe a big ask. I wonder if they'll include enough helmets in the sets to have them all fully armoured, or if showing off those pretty faces will be the default like the existing range...).

No, please take another look at what I wrote: I did not claim to be a fan, and therefore that Necrons should change according to my taste, while criticizing Necrons. Let’s just be honest: I did not like Necrons previously; that’s the actual basis for my opinion that they needed changing. But all I could say, as to why I wanted different Necrons, is that the existing ones did not suit my personal taste. To which, someone else might reasonably respond “so what?”

So there is this fundamental misconception that, because some people don't like some aspect of the current SoB formula, they don't like SoB at all?

Trust me, I wouldn't spend this much effort posting in SoB threads if I didn't care about them. I'd do like I do with IG threads and just not enter them.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Wait, those heads are coming from Games Workshop? Oh. Oh...

They look bad. Like, really, really bad. The proportions are both shallow in places, and exaggerated in others. For one the noses are just awful. Neither do they look particularly feminine. And overall there isn't a great deal of detail, instead going for a chunkier approach which I guess is to fit in with some aesthetic, but which is the opposite of what some of their competitors have been doing with their own figures.

And I say all of this, as they must know that Statuesque Miniatures exists. That company will certainly be seeing a bump in sales for their products if Games Workshop are putting out this sort of quality. :/

I like the new heads. I do think they look feminine, and yeah, some of the features are a bit out of whack on the initial renders, but considering the work GW has been coming out with, I like the synthases of nun/80's punk/modern soldier. I don't like the satuesque's take on that aesthetic.

Same here, as long as there is good variety of head (i.e. enuff to do whole squad helmet or not) options to choose from. Some should look feminine, some less so. to represent the female form correctly it should include all types, it's more realistic.

I'm hoping for scarring, bionics, serene, angry faces & great haircuts.

Wyrmalla, as to that Repentia art, I like it overall and it looks a lot like the existing models except that she looks a bit too well armed and armored. But that’s the right ballpark, along with the horrific art from the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
So there is this fundamental misconception that, because some people don't like some aspect of the current SoB formula, they don't like SoB at all?

This isn’t related to our line of conversation, so far as I can tell. Comes off as disregarding what I actually said and instead putting words in my mouth.

If so, I am not sure if you are being clear enough with your point (or maybe I just don't understand it).

Considering GW is using the two unit types per kit formula, we could easily get two variations of a Repentia-type unit. I think a dual pistol fallen-seraphim sans wings would be pretty sweet.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Wait, those heads are coming from Games Workshop? Oh. Oh...

They look bad. Like, really, really bad. The proportions are both shallow in places, and exaggerated in others. For one the noses are just awful. Neither do they look particularly feminine. And overall there isn't a great deal of detail, instead going for a chunkier approach which I guess is to fit in with some aesthetic, but which is the opposite of what some of their competitors have been doing with their own figures.

And I say all of this, as they must know that Statuesque Miniatures exists. That company will certainly be seeing a bump in sales for their products if Games Workshop are putting out this sort of quality. :/

You seem to think that GW artists have ever actually seen humans before. Remember, they've officially, under oath, never seen any robots depicted in anything ever. Or animals. Or the middle ages.

Is it any wonder they can't sculpt a non screaming bald male head for gak?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I would be fine with sisters losing the boob armor.
I hope the new heads will give option for full bobs, other haircut, and full helmet.
Some Sisters model don't have corset already (but I think they aren't really good though)
I want Sisters to stay without combat heels.

Sounds about right.

I am a bit bothered by the attitude towards those who do want something changed though. If someone walked into a SW thread and said 'I do like SW, but I wish they dialed down on the wolfiness a bit' they wouldn't be told 'yeah well clearly you don't like space wolves as they are, and if you changed them in any way they would not be space wolves, so there is your problem'. But that seems to be a common attitude in SoB threads.

Maybe they should do it the Runescape way - leave the originals untouched for the old fans and keep the designs moving for those who prefer that.

I'm a bit bothered that people who want to make changes to a classic aesthetic seem to think they should be allowed to push for that outcome without any resistance. It's almost as if they're aware their viewpoint on this and similar issues is a minority one that won't get anywhere with the bean counters pulling the strings at GW, unless they can quiet down those who disagree and create the perception that the "change it" faction is much bigger than they actually are.

Space Wolves as an army have been supported pretty much non-stop since 2nd edition. They have an extensive plastic range, and always have. Anyone collecting them has access to the full and complete range of potential interpretations of their aesthetic through the SW and Marine model range.

Sisters have been pretty much abandoned since 2nd ed. They have no plastics, and chunks of their metal range have been unavailable for long stretches of time. If their new incarnation was to deviate from the established aesthetic, existing fans would have zero practical options for representing their preferred(and currently, the only) aesthetic. And frankly, since pretty much the only reason the Sisters are getting a new release at all is those existing fans keeping their appreciation for the faction going for twenty years while GW ignored them and the "change faction" denigrated them as weirdo pervs or cryptomisogynists, I'd say catering to their preference first and, frankly, exclusively is entirely fair.

Also, err, you do get that in your example, you wouldn't be the person asking for the Wolves to be less wolfy-wolf, right? You'd be the person insisting that Thunderwolves and Santa Grimnir's Hoversleigh were valid changes to the existing SW aesthetic of space-vikings, because it's that original aesthetic that is equivalent to Sisters.

Exactly, what would be the point of bringing a beloved and neglected faction back (by request from the loyal fans, no less) into the light, only to change what makes them so beloved in the first place?

I've loved the Adepta Sororitas aesthetic since I bought and painted my first sister back in... 1997 or so? And the previews (including the heads) look great to me - just enough of keeping the aesthetic and developing it by widening variety of poses and personality.

Some people are very quick to judge though, even based on early concept designs. Tell me about it, I work as a designer, and sometimes I dread showing concepts to certain people because they cannot grasp the concept of "work in progress" and that you by showing early work are asking for feedback in order to keep developing it. Also, constructive feedback is always welcome but comments like "oh, those look horrible, I can't imagine how they could do this, it is very unprofessional" etc. is frankly quite useless.

Dunno, I like what I'm seeing so far, but some new stuff would be cool too. Maybe heavier-armored sisters, for example (more like Mk II SM breachers or something, not really terminators). Doing new stuff could allow them to diverge somewhat from the already established stuff (we've already seen they are being faithful with those, so far) while keeping the aesthetics.

Adding some new options would be cool, too.

Part of it is that simply there isn't much point in bringing back the line and being too conservative with the launch. The beta codex is one example of this- bland mediocrity with yet another unreliable faith gimmick. Again. (Yes, I'm sure someone has found something to cheese, whatever)

For the models, jamming every single element that makes up their aesthetic is an equally conservative mistake. They can keep the aesthetic sane and grow it a bit with new things. So far, if they're doing that at all they aren't showing it.

It feels like they're plasticizing the metals because they received a mandate from the survey, not because they have any enthusiasm or ideas for the project. But an uninspired, conservative rehash of the same old stuff with the same old rules problems isn't healthy for the long term growth of the line.

If it flounders, they're very likely to just kill it for good.

I don't see why the two options cannot coexist either. GW will not do the Sisters release without some new kit or options that were not previously represented. Every major rebuild of a 40k force has done this- Necrons, DE, GSC all got a plethora of new units alongside the updated core. Some of these were alternate duel-builds (like Necron Immortals), some were straight-up new, like Aberrants or the flyers.

So we will most likely get the core Sisters units- battle sisters/dominions/retributors, celestians, repentia, canoness, seraphim. But many of those are likely to have a duel-build alternative with a similar aesthetic to the classic design.

However we are also likely to get a brand new unit kit or two. These could easily be a fairly radical aesthetic change that still ties in. Something like lightly-armoured infiltrators or heavily armoured Terminator equivalents perhaps. Both of these would be great candidates for Sisters models with moulded breasts on the armour, for example. That way, we get a variety of complementary aesthetics within the faction, people can build their force as they see fit, and the range is richer for the variety.

 Manchu wrote:
Wyrmalla, as to that Repentia art, I like it overall and it looks a lot like the existing models except that she looks a bit too well armed and armored. But that’s the right ballpark, along with the horrific art from the codex.

Meh, she doesn't look very repentant to me. Where's the religious fervor and punishment of self? She could be a Seraphim in beachwear.

Voss wrote:
Part of it is that simply there isn't much point in bringing back the line and being too conservative with the launch. The beta codex is one example of this- bland mediocrity with yet another unreliable faith gimmick. Again. (Yes, I'm sure someone has found something to cheese, whatever)

For the models, jamming every single element that makes up their aesthetic is an equally conservative mistake. They can keep the aesthetic sane and grow it a bit with new things. So far, if they're doing that at all they aren't showing it.

It feels like they're plasticizing the metals because they received a mandate from the survey, not because they have any enthusiasm or ideas for the project. But an uninspired, conservative rehash of the same old stuff with the same old rules problems isn't healthy for the long term growth of the line.

If it flounders, they're very likely to just kill it for good.

Out of interest, how do you propose a less conservative approach to look like. I have a little trouble seeing what you mean,

We have the short haircut so far an at least speculation that it belongs to a novitiate, so we might get something along the lines of a Sister equivalent of Scout to full Marine. No certainty yet, of course, but considering that the bob is part of the uniform and we have evidence that that's not the only haircut available, there's evidence that GW is willing to broaden the Sisters aesthetic to a degree.

On the point of enthusiasm and ideas, do you think Sisters would have suffered 20 years of neglect if there was any of that in anyone remotely in a position to push for new Sisters releases? I'll take conservative any day not just because I don't like undue change to faction aesthetic, but because I expect the designers to do their fething job instead of jerking around and doing only the projects they care about.

Less conservative? Not every model has to have a corset AND robes AND armored boots AND shoulder pads that would stagger a marine. Leaving several out would keep the model looking like a Sister without overloading each one.

When I (and I suspect others) say 'Definitely looks like a Sister.'. That isn't a compliment. It's that they've done the minimum necessary to replicate an old model for mass production in plastic. There is zero 'wow' factor. Just an acknowledgement that they've successfully passed the lowest bar possible, and it can join the third (fourth? Fifth?) iteration of tactical marines as a box on the shelf. Not that it will ignite fervor and produce lots of sales.

As to the other, I'm not sure what you mean. Several factions were neglected for decades because GW didn't know where to go with them, several flavors of elf in both systems, Bretonnians, tomb kings. Without a designer pushing a project, GW has a history of producing nothing at all.

Their jobs as you put it, is to make models or rules. It isn't to reproduce the back catalog of citadel miniatures. They're either put on projects by management or they successfully argue why their pet project would be good for the company. If management doesn't want to do wood elves and no one had a convincing plan for wood elves, then a decade passed without any wood elves. Which actually happened. Sisters are nothing special in that regard.

I expect the basic sister to look like a Sister of Battle.

They have room for making new units and double-builds to sprinkle all that variety. I also expect things like Seraphim and Celestiants to become more ornate and different from the basic Sister of Battle as all elite units have become (Like Vanguard and Sternguard veterans), instead of just being the basic model with a halo or something like that.

Well good news! Their pauldrons are already smaller!

As for the rest, they are called uniforms for a reason...

And for most people 'Definitely looks like a sister' is a complement. As in GW didn't do anything stupid like make them generic fem-marines.

No one wants them to reproduce the old models. Most of us however want to keep the same aesthetic, and improve on overall quality. To have SISTER models that are as good as the best that GW has made for other lines.