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Still torn if I like them or not.

CB

When did I claim to like the old minis? There’s a reason I said compare them to the old art.

I go through this same gakky argument with video gamers too - just because I think the newest iteration is trash, doesn’t mean I think the previous one was good.

 Melissia wrote:
Would be pretty easy to make them fit any of the Orders Majoris color schemes, actually.

Well yes - but that would be quite different from the post/scheme I was replying to.

Will be interesting to see them painted up in a sisters rather than catachan/scifi zombie apocalypse scheme.

 zend wrote:
When did I claim to like the old minis?

When did I claim you liked the old minis? Oh wait I didn't. Stop overreacting.

All that Is aid was that the new minis are actually a step closer to what you called the "good, old art".

People used to liken SoB to female marines, but I think they've been moved more inm that direction. I think in trying to portray them heroically while making their technology better fit the setting and giving an explanation to how their abilities stand out over normal humans, we're getting a version of SoB with cybernetic augmentation and the sorts of gene-treatments that help make normal humans stronger and live longer but without going anywhere near as far as what Space Marines get. So we have have these Repentia with muscles and implanted power armor interfacing sockets.

I have mixed feelings. On one hand I think they feel less Blanchian... and so in a sense less 40k than the most extreme sort of 40k flavor... but they're still 40k feeling. I think this is a less stylized approach to Repentia which may or may not be GW's intention, but the look of the models seems a consequence of trying to keep down sexualized undertones while trying to make the look of the concept better fit how SoB and Imperial technology fit in.

I think the style choices make sense, but makes them feel less miraculous... and these maybe a bit less insane.

 insaniak wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:
And I think they look too much like men
[...]
Fortunately we have brands like Raging Heroes

Well I guess the average woman look too much like a man, and only the most spine-bended top models look like women enough or something?

Unfortunately, for decades heroic' scaling meant female models with tiny waists, giant boobs, and no visible muscles.

Heroic scaling is always going to be something of a caricature, but the trick for manufacturers is finding a new direction that isn't insulting or embarrassing.

Raging Heroes clearly choose to stick to the 'traditional' path, while GW are clearly trying to find a better visual... And honestly, I think they've nailed it, and I suspect that those few peope claiming these don't look 'female enough' are just having trouble getting out of that traditional heroic scale mindset.

For all that I don't like the fashion choice, these models are, for me, a perfect 'heroic' female warrior style.

Pretty much agreed with all of this. I think they could have been a touch more space-gothic in sensibility, with some more chains and whatnot and maybe some more expressive faces, but it's really a matter of degree. The one with the bionic arm looks great; the others look fine. Glad they look closer in sensibility to stuff like the Cawdor line, where they're wearing pretty minimalist, functional stuff than just parchment pinned to them to show off their curves and not much else, and they're sure better than the old metal awkward kinda' power armor thing.

 Sqorgar wrote:

From what I understand, reading the background lore people have been posting, the Repentia are the equivalent to the scene in A Feast For Crows where Cersei is walked naked through the streets while a nun walks behind her yelling "Shame! Shame!" Their nakedness, if I'm not mistaken, is not because they have been turned into sex objects for the pleasure of onlookers, but because they have been stripped of their very identities - literal objectification. They aren't the equivalent of a Yakuza cutting off his pinky, but instead a religious zealotry that goes beyond physical suffering into a sort of damnation of soul.

Despite having said really love these minis, I do agree with everything you said in this paragraph. They’re not perfect by any means and their “costume” could have been so much better. However, I find a lot more to like about them than dislike. The brands, the cropped hair, the self inflicted wounds are a bid step towards what you describe. They’re 80% there and I’ll take that. I know that I’ll paint them and convert them more to my taste.

I can see why people think they are not grimdark enough, the lines are a little too clean. Paint will indeed make this better.
However, I seriously don't understand people seeing masculine in the models. Take Sister Serena for example. Look at the real Serena, and she's swinging a 1lb tennis racket, not a metal, powered chainsaw. Of course they will have had chemical enhancements, no PED-police in the 40K universe.

I do wish they looked a little more scarred, but the clean grey appearance is certainly attributed a lot to the images and not to how a final painted model will look.

I'll hold judgement until I see painted renditions.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
They’re not perfect by any means and their “costume” could have been so much better. However, I find a lot more to like about them than dislike. The brands, the cropped hair, the self inflicted wounds are a bid step towards what you describe. They’re 80% there and I’ll take that. I know that I’ll paint them and convert them more to my taste.

Yeah, this is where I landed. I have loved everything in the SoB relaunch so far except these... but I don't hate them either. They're just not as good as they could be. I will see about greenstuffing some tabards or whatever to extend the top a little more and call it good.

Also, after some thought, I think I agree with the barefoot contingent. Sure, the sneakers are practical and make actually redeeming themselves much more likely, but in a setting where one of the best ways to deal with a tank is punching it with a magic glove, practicality is overrated. I think bare feet would indeed go a long way towards that sackcloth and ashes theme.

But, it is what it is. As a man once said about 3.6 roentgens, "not great, not terrible".

Whoa! The negativity here is insane, and it seems to be pretty much disconnected from what the miniatures actually look like. They do not look manly and there is plenty of grimdark self flagellation stuff, certainly more than any sister model ever released.

I am pretty damn pleased with these. They look like strong, athletic warrior women in active combat poses. There is a lot of cool gothic craziness. I really hope the there are plenty of extra heads, I want to use these on my normal sisters as well. Granted, I would have preferred bare feet and a bit more tattered tabards etc, but at least the latter is easy to add with GS. Overall a great upgrade though.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.

The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...

....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.

What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.

WHAT.

COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.

BEEN GOING FOR THERE?

The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!

I'm a big fan of the models. My only issue with how buff they are (which is not itself the issue), is that it makes the Sisters in armor look even smaller by comparison. Like, if the Sisters are that big in their cloth and skin, their power armor would be paper thin. I realize it's an issue of Heroic scale, and maybe it's just seeing both renders in isolation, rather than next to each other. (I have the new Sister Superior model "in the plastic" as it were, but that's even less useful for comparison.)

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

From what I understand, reading the background lore people have been posting, the Repentia are the equivalent to the scene in A Feast For Crows where Cersei is walked naked through the streets while a nun walks behind her yelling "Shame! Shame!" Their nakedness, if I'm not mistaken, is not because they have been turned into sex objects for the pleasure of onlookers, but because they have been stripped of their very identities - literal objectification. They aren't the equivalent of a Yakuza cutting off his pinky, but instead a religious zealotry that goes beyond physical suffering into a sort of damnation of soul.

Despite having said really love these minis, I do agree with everything you said in this paragraph. They’re not perfect by any means and their “costume” could have been so much better. However, I find a lot more to like about them than dislike. The brands, the cropped hair, the self inflicted wounds are a bid step towards what you describe. They’re 80% there and I’ll take that. I know that I’ll paint them and convert them more to my taste.

I'm amazed that you could quote that post, since it seems to have mysteriously disappeared.

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm a big fan of the models. My only issue with how buff they are (which is not itself the issue), is that it makes the Sisters in armor look even smaller by comparison. Like, if the Sisters are that big in their cloth and skin, their power armor would be paper thin. I realize it's an issue of Heroic scale, and maybe it's just seeing both renders in isolation, rather than next to each other. (I have the new Sister Superior model "in the plastic" as it were, but that's even less useful for comparison.)

I don't like to make such comparisons before I can hold the respective models in my hands, so while that thought occurred to me I'm not going to assume that they are off until I have actual proof.

I do think it's not a problem of heroic scale, though. Provided of course that armored and unarmored Sisters look way to close in mass, but again there's no actual proof yet. Rather I could never think of it as anything other than a competence issue on part of the designer or their manager. It's literally the sculptor's job to get proportions and dimensions right.

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm a big fan of the models. My only issue with how buff they are (which is not itself the issue), is that it makes the Sisters in armor look even smaller by comparison. Like, if the Sisters are that big in their cloth and skin, their power armor would be paper thin. I realize it's an issue of Heroic scale, and maybe it's just seeing both renders in isolation, rather than next to each other. (I have the new Sister Superior model "in the plastic" as it were, but that's even less useful for comparison.)

GW has always chosen to go with dynamic scaling rather than realistic scaling. Is Roboute G scaled to a normal (or even primaris) space marine? Is terminator armor even possible to wear?

I'll just assume Repentia are jacked full of combat drugs once they're handed their eviscerator and they put on 20kg of muscle for the duration of their penitence.

 Melissia wrote:

 zend wrote:
When did I claim to like the old minis?

When did I claim you liked the old minis? Oh wait I didn't. Stop overreacting.

All that Is aid was that the new minis are actually a step closer to what you called the "good, old art".

“Overreacting” k.

But excuse me, I should’ve specified Karl Kopinski’s Art when I said good old art. I’m having trouble finding an exact date when his pieces were originally done, but they at least predate the official release of the Repentia models, which do match some depictions of them, just not the good Kopinski depictions everyone is referring to. His art is amazing anyways, but his Ministorum pieces nail grim dark perfectly.

hrm. how much of the Repentia lore as i recall it is intact still. i wonder if they completely removed the Flagellant references...

The only thing that looks a little off for me are the shoes and the... trousers?

Everything else is very cool. Not something I fall in love with but ey, cool.


And I know we all want the art come true. As others have said, Warhammer is full of Artwork pieces that are much superior to the miniatures that had come after them. But at this point I think thats something everybody has accepted as a compromise between the freedom one has when drawing vs the reality of 28mm plastic figurines.

I don't know why so many people is, in this specific case, forgetting that realization that we all accepted as reasonable for most other models, and using that Repentia drawing as some kind of Ten Commandments on How Shall You Made a Repentia Miniature

 Galas wrote:
The only thing that looks a little off for me are the shoes and the... trousers?

Everything else is very cool. Not something I fall in love with but ey, cool.


And I know we all want the art come true. As others have said, Warhammer is full of Artwork pieces that are much superior to the miniatures that had come after them. But at this point I think thats something everybody has accepted as a compromise between the freedom one has when drawing vs the reality of 28mm plastic figurines.

I don't know why so many people is, in this specific case, forgetting that realization that we all accepted as reasonable for most other models, and using that Repentia drawing as some kind of Ten Commandments on How Shall You Made a Repentia Miniature

No one said they had to be 1:1 with Kopinski’s art, but they could stand to take a lot more design cues from it.

As a matter of fact, the art and minis being 1:1 now a days is a bit of a problem. I guarantee every single one of the models we’ve seen will show up directly in new art for the codex, right down to the pose. GW’s been doing it for awhile and I don’t like it.

But thats because now art comes after miniatures.

In the past, art came first, and them the miniatures.

I like them.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.

The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...

....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.

What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.

WHAT.

COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.

BEEN GOING FOR THERE?

The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!

Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.

Maybe some one should do a poll - like 'em , indifferent or hate 'em

The more I think about this, I think there’s actually a subtle tonal shift in the lore too; my reading of the article is that Repentia are now more in a bushido “I have failed my master and must labour to remove my dishonour” than the original, driven into a religious fervour by their failure. I.e. less savage insanity and more driven humility, which I think carries through into the models.

 Jadenim wrote:
The more I think about this, I think there’s actually a subtle tonal shift in the lore too; my reading of the article is that Repentia are now more in a bushido “I have failed my master and must labour to remove my dishonour” than the original, driven into a religious fervour by their failure. I.e. less savage insanity and more driven humility, which I think carries through into the models.

I think even in the recent article both are possible.

They also have to be careful that the penetance does not become the goal rather than the journey - that way Slaanesh beckons. I seem to recall a short story with a Canoness talking about this and it being another thing that they must be watchful for.

 insaniak wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:
And I think they look too much like men
[...]
Fortunately we have brands like Raging Heroes

Well I guess the average woman look too much like a man, and only the most spine-bended top models look like women enough or something?

Unfortunately, for decades heroic' scaling meant female models with tiny waists, giant boobs, and no visible muscles.

Heroic scaling is always going to be something of a caricature, but the trick for manufacturers is finding a new direction that isn't insulting or embarrassing.

Raging Heroes clearly choose to stick to the 'traditional' path, while GW are clearly trying to find a better visual... And honestly, I think they've nailed it, and I suspect that those few peope claiming these don't look 'female enough' are just having trouble getting out of that traditional heroic scale mindset.

For all that I don't like the fashion choice, these models are, for me, a perfect 'heroic' female warrior style.

Hear, hear.

Damn, this thread went dumpster fire QUICK. SoB tradition holding strong.

Anyway, I wanted to see what the the models would look like under a GW like coat of paint



And it ain't bad. Not great, but not bad. the shoes are still kinda out of place and the ports feel wrong, but I think they're fine models.

I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.

 Sim-Life wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.

The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...

....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.

What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.

WHAT.

COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.

BEEN GOING FOR THERE?

The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!

Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.

Not the person that they were replying to, though. If you read the quote that the poster you're replying to quoted, it's "Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them."


I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
If Sisters have plug ports on their heads like these repentia, how do they not get their hair caught up in them all the time?

My head canon was always that their heads are covered in implants and they wear wigs.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.