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And I am sure a knight castellan would make short work of both sides of shadowspear at once. It's a silly way to judge the contents of a box of models. If the contents are not competitive enough for anyone they can simply not buy it and wait for the wider release.

ERJAK wrote:

 jake wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

tbf, there aren't a whole lot of sisters players full stop so... As far as I know there are only 3 in all of michigan for example.(U.S. State with 9millionish population.)

Thats... a ridiculous way to look at it. There may not be a ton of people playing Sisters at the moment, but thats hardly surprising for an army that hasn't had a proper release in over 15 years and has never been well supported anyway. what I think does exist is a large number of players who either previously played Sisters and are eager to come back or always wanted to but never did because the army was extremely poorly supported. there were hardly any Genestealer Cult players after 20 years of being ignored, but that didn't stop both new and old players picking up the army once it was available. From what I understand its now pretty popular.

I'm one of those players. I stopped playing 40K 10 years ago, and I'm only coming back because of Sisters. I know 5 other players locally who are excited to come back for the same reasons (and keep in mind, I have no contact with the local 40k community at all, so these are just 5 random gamers I know who are excited for this release). For over a decade the comments surrounding Sisters has been "I'll come back when they get a proper release" or "I'll start collecting them when they're in plastic". Your assertion that no one is going to be interested in sisters is ridiculous.

That's a ridiculous way to look at it. YOU asserted no one would be interested. I didn't say that at ALL.

You've said similar things before. For whatever reason you seem to enjoy spreading the idea that no one will be interested in buying new Sisters . I'm not sure why, but its become pretty obnoxious. You should knock it off.

A.T. wrote:
Four S10 AP -5 shots doing 3-6 damage each should be sufficient for the penitent, leaving roughly 27 AP -2 and 15 AP 0 shots at 3+ to wound plus a couple of S7 missiles and mortal wound potshots. Reroll 1s plus any other buffs.

This is an absolutely indecent amount of firepowerr for a single model and GW should feel bad about it!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
This is an absolutely indecent amount of firepowerr for a single model and GW should feel bad about it!

8th edition is just a continuation of GWs shift towards apocalypse 40k. It'll be interesting to see what GW does with the sisters to bring them along as the beta gave no indication.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
... and same with Repentias, so a 4 repentia unit!

You don't own any Repentia? Are their rules really that bad right now?

 warboss wrote:
Are they a digital download only? Or made of taffy and therefore edible/perishable? If you're referring to monopose kits, they're still real btw even if they don't necessarily suit your fancy. I too prefer in most cases fully poseable kits but it doesn't mean that more cinematic monopose ones should automatically get downgraded to imaginary status.

Don't be so needlessly obtuse. You know exactly what I mean.

These aren't the kits that will be released in individual boxes (Canoness aside) when the Sisters get their full release. They're like the Eliminators and Chaos Marines from Shadowspear. Like the Plague Marines from Dark Imperium. They're not the real kits.

And you knew that's what I meant.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Don't be so needlessly obtuse. You know exactly what I mean.

These aren't the kits that will be released in individual boxes (Canoness aside) when the Sisters get their full release. They're like the Eliminators and Chaos Marines from Shadowspear. Like the Plague Marines from Dark Imperium. They're not the real kits.

And you knew that's what I meant.

I told you ages ago that this would be the case.

And what does it matter? You need more than this amount of models for a proper army anyway, so you can get the multipose kits in addition to these, which increases the variety.

 Crimson wrote:
I told you ages ago that this would be the case.

You didn't know. You suspected that they would be. I didn't think they would be. Turns out you were correct. I still don't see why they bothered making them in the first place.

I mean, they obviously have the full kits, so why not just put them in there?

Because this way the can sell the both.

 Crimson wrote:
Because this way the can sell the both.

I don't see how that's a good reason.

It costs money to make new moulds, and if you're going to make the full kits why go to the expense of these other kits for something that isn't a starter-box? Do keep in mind that I'm not looking at just the Sisters box in this way; I think that Shadow Spear has the same issue. Why make a unique CSM squad when you've already gone to the trouble and expense of making a new full CSM kit?

You can do more unique poses on monopose models. You can also fit more models on the sprue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Because this way the can sell the both.

I don't see how that's a good reason.

It costs money to make new moulds, and if you're going to make the full kits why go to the expense of these other kits for something that isn't a starter-box? Do keep in mind that I'm not looking at just the Sisters box in this way; I think that Shadow Spear has the same issue. Why make a unique CSM squad when you've already gone to the trouble and expense of making a new full CSM kit?

Because they can sell you both, as he said. See also just about every 8th box set from Dark Millennium onwards. Not even any point refuting it as it’s how they do things.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
See also just about every 8th box set from Dark Millennium onwards. Not even any point refuting it as it’s how they do things.

This comment confuses me. Please elaborate.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
See also just about every 8th box set from Dark Millennium onwards. Not even any point refuting it as it’s how they do things.

This comment confuses me. Please elaborate.

Sure. GW’s current MO is to sell you the monopose box set as the only option to begin with, then release regular multipart kits some time later usually at a higher price. They quite often get to double dip people’s wallets as they buy the new shiny-shiny when the box comes out, then buy more when the multipart kits come out (to expand army or for posing variety).

 JohnnyHell wrote:
GW’s current MO is to sell you the monopose box set as the only option to begin with, then release regular multipart kits some time later usually at a higher price.

Is it though?

'Cause they've only released 2 (soon to be 3) monopose boxes this edition - the starter-box, which is always like that (and, before Irbis comes in to "Well ackshually!" the thread, the spin-off simpler starter-kits), and then Shadow Spear.

Have there been other fully-mono-pose kits that I'm missing?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You don't own any Repentia? Are their rules really that bad right now?

I don't own any not for rule reason but because I just don't like the current models.
But yeah the rules never struck me as good. They have always been very fragile, and used to hit last. Sure, they hit strong... but will they ever get the chance to?
Always thought they would work better as a cheap throw-away unit than as one with power fist on every model, especially given the lore.

I also don't own no arcoflagellants, no penitent engine, no official crusaders, no official death cultist, no official priest.
I did find some very nice count-as DCA and crusaders though. Warmachine's Daughter of the Flame make for DCA that looks way more at home in a Sisters army than the official DCA, they have the same cloth tabard over armor, they have nice hoods, they have big pauldrons, they look religious...

Yeah, Repentia worked in 3rd ed when their 4+ steel bra meant something and the game favored close combat. They just got worse with every iteration of their rules after that until I didn't bother reading them anymore.

Frankly I can't imagine how the unit is supposed to work in 8th ed.

 Geifer wrote:
Yeah, Repentia worked in 3rd ed when their 4+ steel bra meant something and the game favored close combat. They just got worse with every iteration of their rules after that until I didn't bother reading them anymore.

3e repentia were 20 points a model for 1 base attack and randomly activating forced movement. 4+ armour, no inv/fnp, no transports. They were dead the second you came within range of a heavy bolter and good luck stopping them from running out of cover.
The 5e WD repentia under 6e rules were 4 attacks on the charge, fleet, FnP and 6++, and strike on death for 17 points. Could steal transports.
6e dropped the repentia all the way down to 14 points and change their faith to be an FnP booster. Could take transports.
And 8e handed them the gimp-eviscerators. Up until order traits they were actually outdamaged by death cultists with power knives against light vehicles like rhinos.

Of course 8e also lets them attack if they do actually get across the table. The fragility of past editions was one thing but IIRC after overwatch came in a firewarrior squad would beat them in close combat by simply shooting their points worth of repentia off the board on the charge. The could do with some of that 3e mad rush speed back now.

A.T. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If a single model that isn't a titan or anything can kill 24 infantry models, in 5 different units, with 2 of thow 24 infantry models being characters, and most of them having a 3+ save, AND a walker on top of it all, in a single shooting phase there is really a big problem with GW's rules!

Well they are all T3 (currently), mostly single wound and seven with no armour saves.

Four S10 AP -5 shots doing 3-6 damage each should be sufficient for the penitent, leaving roughly 27 AP -2 and 15 AP 0 shots at 3+ to wound plus a couple of S7 missiles and mortal wound potshots. Reroll 1s plus any other buffs.

I guess the character targetting rules would mean that the canoness and mistress would walk away.

Yaknow, I'm looking at the executioner, and I'm having a real hard time seeing where does all that firepower come from.

I mean, assuming laser destroyer, its 2 S9AP-4 shots, not 4 S10AP-5 shots. Using the current engine statline-that will NOT take it down, that will not even take half of it down. (hits on 3s, wounds on 3s with just 2 shots-that's 0.88 wounds, dealing 3.555 damage, and only 2.37 wounds on average will get through it's FnP)
If it stays still to shoot twice (meaning it had clear line of sight, was not engaged, etc.) it will still only deal about 4.74 wounds on average, of the engine's 7. not taking it out in a volley.

Not a single one of his weapons is AP-2, it DOES feature about that many AP-1 shots though. so hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s. (simplifying the rocket pod that hits on 4s and wounds on 3s) so you get 12 wounds, half gets blocked by armor so its 6 dead sisters.

For the AP0 shots, 2d6+4 (because like hell you are in rapid bolter range without moving) so lets say 11 shots. again hitting on 3s wounding on 3s, its 4.88 wounds. enough to remove either the repentia of the flags, but not both, and would hardly harm actual sisters if pointed at them (taking down 1.6 actually armored sisters)



Not QUITE taking them down in a single shooting round. two shooting rounds are also not going to finish them off. (it will be enough to clear the engine, the repentia/flags and about 16 of the armored sisters, leaving about 3 more sisters, and the two chars)
And all this is generously assuming he has clear lines of sight, sisters not in any cover, it's in perfect range for every gun to actually target it's desired target (including it's 18" guns), the tank doesn't get bracketed, or even assaulted after it's first shooting-and above all, that the sisters models get NO UPDATE AT ALL that might improve their durability, speed, range, or whatever,

Considering they are a bad matchup (infantry and a dread against something that chews infantry and dreads) and the tank is great to begin with-i'd say enduring for over 2 turns and possibly dishing some damage in return under the most unfavorable of circumstances is not that bad.
I mean, this "army" is obviously far from optimized as it's a mishmash of units. plus its just about 450 points worth of models anyways (current pricing, and with unknown gear). Its a starter, not a tournament list.


I actually want the sheraps quite bad, and I'm not even an IoM player.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yaknow, I'm looking at the executioner, and I'm having a real hard time seeing where does all that firepower come from.

I was thinking with the forge master and lieutenant buff, but also probably mixing it and the dreads up with doctrines.

My comment on whether or not a buffed executioner would wipe out the box was just idle speculation after watching the new Iron Hands in action (or rather inaction, crawling 5" a round as they did)

So, you pack and exe, with a nearby forgemaster and lieutenant, pile up doctrines and such (putting aside they are now FAR more expensive than the sisters)-and compare it to the poor sisters without using ANY of their special rules, let alone the new upcoming ones?

Doesn't seem like quite a fair assessment of the value of this kit?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Doesn't seem like quite a fair assessment of the value of this kit?

Who said anything about the value of the kit? I said 'it'd be interesting to see the odds of a single buffed-up Iron Hands executioner wiping out the entire box in a single shooting phase' - having just prior to the post been watching the new Iron Hands in action for the first time since the marine update and the five minutes it took to fire it's dozen weapons off.

Arco flaggelants look cool. I guess that counts as another pilot body, though it's just a different pose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

One on the right looks like he's running off his sillies!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like he's running off his sillies!

"She" also looks like a Borg from Star Trek

-

Yeah, I like how she's just floppy running. The two repeated bodies are the ones on the left



Noooo, why does she have her helmet on her belt?

Arcos looks fairly appropriately silly and horrifying. I think they are decent. I still have an unopened box of metal ones, somewhere.

I love the "sidearm" book on the "Mistress." I converted my old Sister Superiors to all be holding books (I think BoSL was wargear back then), so I already love a good book theme.

I still have my old metal Penitent Engines, so I can likely salvage the old pilots to replace the new, if I really feel the need.

Is it just me, or do these Repentia looks "better" than what we saw in the preview? Or is it just a small picture and a different angle?

Wonder if they've move the arcos profile a little further from the other elite cc units. They've been squashed together ever since the 5e GK dex.

 H wrote:
Is it just me, or do these Repentia looks "better" than what we saw in the preview? Or is it just a small picture and a different angle?

The further away you get, the better they look :p

A.T. wrote:
The further away you get, the better they look :p

Well, good thing I am getting old and will likely need to hold them well away to see them soon! Of course, I do have some of the old metals, so I can mix them in and dilute the look as needed, depending on how the scales look together.

Might be my old eyes, but looks like there is no melta lady in the Sister squad, just a flamer and a Stormbolder. Not sure what that "means" though...

The old arco flagellants were way more menacing. These look silly.

They're growing on me quite quickly.

Main body pose is sprinty, limbs more 'flailing incoherently', which I find fitting to their concept.

But I can see why they may yet prove marmite. Perhaps once seen as a larger squad they'll look better?