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 Kanluwen wrote:
The hate for Salvation makes me sad. It was a great start to a new potentially interesting timeframe(pre-Future War!) that we got kinda/sorta hinted at prior to it with how Kyle Reese grew up before Connor ever found him.

Its not one I love as much as the first two, but I really loved the future scenes in them and this was a treat. Great to have Kyle back too( sorely missing from T2 and T3 ). Shouldn't have had it, but I do enjoy it.

Only disappointment is that I got the Art book and...was expecting Marcus to fight the Harvester droid, after crashing - falling off the machine-aircraft - in a harryhausen style action sequence.

Very silly movie, but glad it was made.

I have complicated feelings about Salvation, because it has a lot of good stuff that never actually coalesced into a good movie. I mean, there is a lot of gold in them hills - a giant mech, A10 dogfighting, Moon Bloodgood, Michael Ironside...

I think the franchise's greatest sin was actually Terminator 3, in terms of creating continuity problems and screwing up everything.

Well, I revisited T3 last night.
Yup its still complete dog gak.
I think I'd work myself into a grump typing out all thats wrong with it so will just leave it there

IMO T3 is a decent action movie which falls flat as a Terminator movie. It spends too much time referring back to glorious past and poking fun at itself. The 'feel' of the movie is off, and T-X is not scary enough.

I didn't mind the "Arnie in a gay bar" gag at the beginning, but it was the combined effect of that and all the other gags that went a wee bit too far for me.

One thing that sticks out like a sore thumb since Terminator 2 is the "Arnold batch" of Terminators.

Since the "guardian" arrives at the beginning of T2, it was easy to accept that Arnold is playing a different Terminator( hes older, slightly less bulky and a different haircut ). But the film then tries to pass him off as the same one from the first film, and that all T-101s( or was it T-800s? ) have the same appearance...despite Kyle's memory sequence in the first film with another Terminator portrayed by Franco Columbu. By having each Terminator have a different appearance it becomes a nod to The Thing - the only warning you'll get that something is wrong is when the dogs start barking, and by then its probably too late. With the same appearance thats lost as they can be identified easier.

"Okay lads its so simple, just look for the Governor of California and we really can't **** this up!"

SamusDrake wrote:
One thing that sticks out like a sore thumb since Terminator 2 is the "Arnold batch" of Terminators.

Since the "guardian" arrives at the beginning of T2, it was easy to accept that Arnold is playing a different Terminator( hes older, slightly less bulky and a different haircut ). But the film then tries to pass him off as the same one from the first film, and that all T-101s( or was it T-800s? ) have the same appearance...despite Kyle's memory sequence in the first film with another Terminator portrayed by Franco Columbu. By having each Terminator have a different appearance it becomes a nod to The Thing - the only warning you'll get that something is wrong is when the dogs start barking, and by then its probably too late. With the same appearance thats lost as they can be identified easier.

"Okay lads its so simple, just look for the Governor of California and we really can't **** this up!"

Yeah, I kinda agree. The aging thing doesn't bother me so much considering the T-101s have real organic flesh. It makes sense that it would age. It was even a decent explanation for Old Arnie in Genysis, since he came back when Sarah was a little girl and has protected her to adulthood.
I could also except that a handful of T-101s used the same DNA for their flesh suits, hence all looking the same. But not all

But eventually, they would be recognizable and thus obsolete. So how have so many Arninators been sent back? I suppose that particular model may be easy to reprogram (or at least the resistance knows how to), but wouldn't Skynet realize this and STOP MAKING THEM!

-

I just assumed the terminators were made in batches and then dispersed throughout North America to terminate various resistance cells. Skynet just happened to have run off a couple of dozen model 101's (Arnienators) and had them on hand when Connor's army launched its final assault. If all the other models of terminators had been dispatched, then the only enfleshed terminators in proximity to the time displacer would be Arnies. Therefore, Skynet has little choice but to send back Arnies...and any time travel-capable prototypes it has nearby.

Yes, the aging thing is certainly a good'un.

It would have been good to introduce other body-builder actors. That said, the young cgi Arnold in Salvation and Genisys were very well done. There is only so much they can do with CGI( as much they would suggest otherwise ) but both were excellent attempts for their respective years. Genisys only becomes noticable when he responds to the punks "nice night for a walk".

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I just assumed the terminators were made in batches and then dispersed throughout North America to terminate various resistance cells. Skynet just happened to have run off a couple of dozen model 101's (Arnienators) and had them on hand when Connor's army launched its final assault. If all the other models of terminators had been dispatched, then the only enfleshed terminators in proximity to the time displacer would be Arnies. Therefore, Skynet has little choice but to send back Arnies...and any time travel-capable prototypes it has nearby.

Makes perfect sense.

-

 Ouze wrote:
I have complicated feelings about Salvation, because it has a lot of good stuff that never actually coalesced into a good movie. I mean, there is a lot of gold in them hills - a giant mech, A10 dogfighting, Moon Bloodgood, Michael Ironside...

Plus "Salvation" gave us that epic Christian Bale rant, right?

I've heard some pretty awesome techno/dance remixes of that...

BE A PROFESSIONAL

SamusDrake wrote:
all T-101s( or was it T-800s? ) have the same appearance...despite Kyle's memory sequence in the first film with another Terminator portrayed by Franco Columbu.

The Terminator from T2 is a Cyberdyne Systems model 101. As I understand it (and this is from ancillary material, not the films), the chassis is the T-800 and the model is the skin over it; the one we see in Kyle's memory is presumably a T-800 model something else. The one in T3 is apparently a T-850 chassis (a mid-life upgrade of the T-800) and cromartie from the TV series is a T-888 (another upgrade) and Cameron was a T-900. It appears that each chassis type comes in a variety of sizes, too (depending on who the casting agency had available that day for filming )

I miss Cromarty and Cameron.

 Alpharius wrote:


Plus "Salvation" gave us that epic Christian Bale rant, right?

I've heard some pretty awesome techno/dance remixes of that...

"...duh! Its distracting!!!"

What a legend!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

The Terminator from T2 is a Cyberdyne Systems model 101. As I understand it (and this is from ancillary material, not the films), the chassis is the T-800 and the model is the skin over it; the one we see in Kyle's memory is presumably a T-800 model something else. The one in T3 is apparently a T-850 chassis (a mid-life upgrade of the T-800) and cromartie from the TV series is a T-888 (another upgrade) and Cameron was a T-900. It appears that each chassis type comes in a variety of sizes, too (depending on who the casting agency had available that day for filming )

Cheers for that. I would have asked Kyle but I think he would have said something about "not having built the thing."

 Ratius wrote:
I miss Cromarty and Cameron.

The series was SO good. A shame we didn't get S3, it was getting really promising and interesting. So much could have been done !

SamusDrake wrote:

 Galef wrote:
In fact, there is a deleted alternate ending with adult John & Old Sarah Connor chilling at that playground Sarah kept having nightmares about. No apocalypse happened.

-

Agreed. It was cute when she ties her grand daughter's laces together!

When in the series, when he is in the park, with a younger himself (I think he is tying his laces too), do you think it's a nod to this ?

 godardc wrote:

When in the series, when he is in the park, with a younger himself (I think he is tying his laces too), do you think it's a nod to this ?

I totally forgot about that bit! Yeah, that could very well be a nod indeed!

Sarah Connor Chronicles were pretty superb.

Perhaps lacking in overall consistency, but a solid end product all the same.

You know, given how much there is to explore in the Terminator background, maybe follow ups are simply better suited to TV than Cinema?

I mean, with cinema, you’ve perhaps 2 hours tops to tell your story, beginning to end. And there’s no option to tweak your tale once it’s released.

TV? You’ve got 6-12 hours to spin out the initial story. And if you get a follow up Season, you’ve got the opportunity to switch things up on the fly. This is particularly important were a character or actor just isn’t gelling with the audience. Or indeed a plot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sod it. Just hopped on Amazon and grabbed the digital versions.

See you in a few hours!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something that I’ve just realised.....

How did Skynet send the T-1000 and T-X back through time?

It’s established that nothing inorganic can go back. Hence the T-800 was the choice, as it had a fully organic covering. And why everyone appears in the past naked (one assumes pure cotton or silk clothing etc was lost).

T-1000 and T-X don’t have that covering though?

Shhhhh, T2 cannot be blamed. Don't think about it. Thinking is bad for enjoyment.



Or maybe Skynet slathered them in stem cells Futurama style. Don't wonder why evil Skynet didn't surgically insert a plasma rifle into some poor shmuck and shove him through with Arnie, either. Or coat an HK (or heck, a nuke) with one metric Louie Anderson of human skin tissue and send that back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kyle Reese: "I have to fight and kill a terminator without any energy weapons??"

Resistance tech: "Actually, we've figured out a way for you to bring back a plasma grenade, maybe two. But we'll need a lot of lubricant..."

Kyle Reese: "No weapons at all?"

And watching Sarah Connor Chronicles?

Why didn’t the resistance at least try to install metal detectors?

Because that’d eff the infiltration units square in the a!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

How did Skynet send the T-1000 and T-X back through time?

It’s established that nothing inorganic can go back. Hence the T-800 was the choice, as it had a fully organic covering. And why everyone appears in the past naked (one assumes pure cotton or silk clothing etc was lost).

T-1000 and T-X don’t have that covering though?

Iirc, sending something inorganic back would make it explode in a horrible mess. But I suppose that wouldn't actually harm the T-1000, he could go back, explode, and then pull himself together and go about his business anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You completely misunderstood his meaning. T1 is a closed loop in that the ending position of all the characters and pieces is the starting position. Cause and effect are complete. T2 screws all that up for a schmaltzy feel-good ending. It retcons the rules that make the first movie work, weakens the dramatic effect and character arcs, and then introduces an open-ended, causality-free space-timeline for the benefit of a happy ending that explores literally the most boring possibility out of the myriad of potential paths the timeline could take from there. I mean, I love T2, but that film really broke the franchise.

I disagree with it being schmaltzy, I think having an undefined future is far more interesting generally. It can go really well.... or far worse. The initially established timeline at least has the humans win in the end. The new one Sarah's managed to trigger doesn't even have that guarantee.

I'd be interested in what you think of how Dark Fate seems to have approached that aspect, if you've seen the spoilers.

Ah sod it, lets have a good bout of T2 bashing...

ROUND 1

The Terminator: "YOU'RE TERMINATED ****ER!!!!"
Terminator 2: "I know now why you cry..."

VICTOR: The Terminator

ROUND 2

The Terminator: "MOVE IT REECE! ON YER FEET SOLDIER! ONYERFFFEEEEETTTT!"
Terminator 2: "Come on! lets go! Come on!"

VICTOR: The Terminator

ROUND 3

The Terminator: "Reece! Reece!"
Terminator 2: "There are over 200 bones in yer body...THATS JUST ONE!"

VICTOR: The Ter...urgh, oh crap. Okay, T2.

Casualty, I guess I'm including the canon-adjacent deleted scene with old Sarah Connor enjoying not having been nuked. With the "open ended" timeline, I'll continue to believe Sarah is hilariously wrong about having averted Jedgement Day, and everything she has done is still part of the same causality loop from T1.

Yes, that would mean ignoring the main theme of T2 and the existence of every other Terminator movie*. Oh no.



*The T-1,000,000 from Terminator 3D: the stunt show is still canon and always will be. I won't hear otherwise.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

*The T-1,000,000 from Terminator 3D: the stunt show is still canon and always will be. I won't hear otherwise.

Great fun! Was given a Digital Domain book as a gift years ago, and they covered the making of it. I do recommend it to you.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Something that I’ve just realised.....

How did Skynet send the T-1000 and T-X back through time?

It’s established that nothing inorganic can go back. Hence the T-800 was the choice, as it had a fully organic covering. And why everyone appears in the past naked (one assumes pure cotton or silk clothing etc was lost).

T-1000 and T-X don’t have that covering though?

Apparently the "mimetic poly-alloy" is close enough to count.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Or maybe Skynet slathered them in stem cells Futurama style. Don't wonder why evil Skynet didn't surgically insert a plasma rifle into some poor shmuck and shove him through with Arnie, either. Or coat an HK (or heck, a nuke) with one metric Louie Anderson of human skin tissue and send that back.

If Skynet had had more than tghree milliseconds to shove the closest infiltrator unit into the time machine and give it a rudimentary mission briefing, it might have done that.

Mind you, the amount of Terminators sent back in the SCC series kinda messes with that idea. Perhaps it lost because it had sent all the Terminators available back in time and there were none left to fight off the human forces in its present?

I think SCC plays by different time travel rules than the later films. - As in various Terminators were from different timelines as a result of alterations that people were making to it.

And of course, the potential that some of them weren't even working for skynet at all...

The T-1000 being sent back without being organic is pretty much glossed over with the hope that the audience doesn't notice. Theres a few other things that don't quite add up with T2 but I guess at the end of the day its just a movie and because we were having a good time we're happy to play along.

Honestly, the whole "nothing inorganic can go back, unless it's a robot with human flesh wrapped around it" mechanic, was probably the dumbest thing in the original movie. Minor enough to be handwaved away, but mechanically nonsensical. I don't really care that it was ignored in future films.

 LordofHats wrote:
Honestly, the whole "nothing inorganic can go back, unless it's a robot with human flesh wrapped around it" mechanic, was probably the dumbest thing in the original movie. Minor enough to be handwaved away, but mechanically nonsensical. I don't really care that it was ignored in future films.

Can just imagine all the build up and then Arnold appears and just sags to the floor.

It was always a bit silly logic wise, but I think it's been a useful plot "rule", I was never very interested in the future war itself and preventing the time traveller characters from bringing future gear back is a smart move.

Plus, you know, butts.