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I saw it tonight. I think it might be my favorite Terminator movie. I will need to stew on that a bit to be sure. But the action was top notch, the shots of the future were the best they have ever been since T1 and the new Terminator is terrifying in a way that escalates from the T800 and T1000.

Well worth a watch.

Audience reviews on RT are a good laugh.

Pretty much enjoyed, except for a bunch of 1/2 star reviews whining about politics, womans and SJW. As if it’s yet another concerted goon effort to rubbish a film....

They're probably from folk who've not actually seen it but read the particular subset of reviews that played the film up as a "Smash the Patriarchy! It's better now 'cus it's all wimmins!" affair.

Whether that's actually true or not doesn't matter(not seen it myself, will wait for home media) - the reviewers got their clicks, and the Culture Warriors got their outrage dopamine hit.

Oh you can tell they've not seen it. Comments are literally 'muhhhhhh.......wimmins in mah movee, waaaaaaaaah.

Because if they'd actually seen it, then along the same lines as those in this thread that have seen it, they'd be confirming it's actually pretty decent and entertaining.

If I could be bothered, I'd work out what percentage of the 'reviews' are 1/2 star, one line whines, and recalculate the Audience Approval Score. Even with them factored in, it's an impressive 85%. The Terminator is currently on 89%, and Terminator 2, Judgement Day on 94%.

I really do feel that professional critics saying its 'The Terminator Awakens' are just being lazy. The sole similarity is that it's a late-in-the-day sequel to stone cold classics.

But there's real value here. Sarah Conner absolutely nails it, and Mackenzie Davies is frankly superb.

Yes there are a couple of bits which I feel land a bit flat - but not to the overall detriment. The fight and chase scenes are frankly superb. There's a genuine sense once again that the baddie Terminator is a terrifying foe.


There's no real Deus Ex that I noticed (others may have though?). The fights are beautifully choreographed, and feel suitably desperate, like the Goodies don't know they can actually win, but have to fight on regardless. Sure, they fight with arguably greater skill - but like a good Terminator, it just keeps on going.

And we actually care for the protagonists and their fates. Given half of them are newly introduced, that's no mean feat.

You know, it's opening weekend might not have been great - but I suspect this may be a slow burner thanks to word of mouth. Certainly I can see it doing pretty well on home media, once word of mouth has settled the nerves of those (entirely understandably) wary of yet another entry in The Series Of Diminishing Returns.

A lot of negative audience reviews quote lines that are heard in the trailers but aren't in the actual film, which sort of gives the game away really.

I have a very strong suspicion too that some of the sincere confusion over the plot comes from detail not visible or too clearly audible in the rip that's circulating, like Carl's scar or some of the future war stuff.

I think yeah, like you say, time will be kind to it, but it's pity it'll come too late for the movie franchise. They're talking about moving into a spin off cartoon - since this was R rated and didn't take - which is just freaking undignified.

But it was a good film for Sarah and Arnie to bow out on, and I'd very much like to see a Director's Cut, so I guess I'll live with it.

On the bright side of potential no sequel? The story is nicely self contained within the film.

Yes, there is room for more, but it's not a requirement in the way Gensisys set itself up (and I'm still disappointed we didn't even get a comic follow up)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh you can tell they've not seen it. Comments are literally 'muhhhhhh.......wimmins in mah movee, waaaaaaaaah.

Next thing you know they'll be made when the Aliens franchise adopts a female lead.

A bit of wee just came out.

Calm. Thats not why the movie did not meet forecast sales expectations.

Quite.

Its opening weekend was about the same as Genisys, which makes me wonder if the franchise has now hit a point where it's shed all but the real fans of the franchise who'll turn out for anything, and the population at large has developed enough apathy to it that they either won't bother or are content to wait for a home release.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Quite.

Its opening weekend was about the same as Genisys, which makes me wonder if the franchise has now hit a point where it's shed all but the real fans of the franchise who'll turn out for anything, and the population at large has developed enough apathy to it that they either won't bother or are content to wait for a home release.

there's likely something to that, the first movie is pushing 35, and everything after Judgement Day has been diminishing returns, or I could blame it on the Supers,,,

Yup.

As noted before, I quite get people’s reticence to see this. But when the vast majority of viewer comments are ‘ it’s decently entertaining, and easily the third best’, I still expect it’ll find its market on home media release, probably via online rentals.

I mean, globally it’s taken £129,000,000 or so, against a budget of £189,000,000 or so. It’s ad campaign seemed relatively low key compared to other blockbusters.

I reckon it’ll at least break even on production budget, and then make the profit when people can rent it, enjoy it, and then add it to their collection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mind you, brief research shows Genisys took £440,000,000, making it the second biggest take next to T2.

So if Dark Fate follows that box office, it will turn at least a small profit in the cinema.

Got a feeling that word of mouth might still help this slow mover, and there aren't that many big-name action-franchise movies between now and Jumanji and Star Wars.

If you go in accepting that its a cockup in continuity for the sake of Cameron getting back his franchise, then you'll find there is still a well made sci-fi action thriller to be enjoyed. If you have a cinema subscription or just fancy a good action flick for the evening - don't deny yourself. The "road movie" part is genuine as the gang attempt to cross the border and keep Dani alive, and the cast get on very well together considering the weak material they have to work with.

Oh, Mackenzie Davis is butt naked in this one! You know it was inevitable given the tradition, but there is something to be said for "seeing is believeing"! Definitely worth the ticket price alone!

I genuinely like most of the Terminators films - even the ones that are considered terrible. I like what they're going for and the casting/action/timeline rewrites so far have been great. I saw the film this week and I'd probably rate is a 6/10. Worth a watch sure but I'm not sure introducing a friend to the Series and watching T2 followed by this.

It was dramatically better than the recent Star Wars films. I liked it but the only gripe I had is the casting. Mild casting rant:

The actor Gabe Luna as the terminator, Dani as the chosen one, and the Mackenzie Davis actress as Grace.... were all terrible choices. The music, the action, and the pacing was great and carried the film. These three actors just seemed terribly out of place and awkward in their roles. Lets have the Terminator as another jacked bodybuilder that looks dangerous, Dani as a younger Edward Furlong aged kid instead of a generic teenager. Grace just seemed bad at acting. I prefer to awkward boob scene of the T3 terminator to the entire character of Grace. The CGI didnt seem really high budget - but very "okay". I didn't like renaming things / Legion. Seemed out of place or some IP related thing. No idea



My new rule for watching movies at a theater is to never watch trailers or read reviews so I can go in blind. This worked with this film. The trailer is TERRIBLE. After the fact I understand why critiques didnt like the movie and agree the highway scene was terrible how they introduced Sarah into it.

 Stevefamine wrote:
My new rule for watching movies at a theater is to never watch trailers or read reviews so I can go in blind. This worked with this film. The trailer is TERRIBLE.

Agree 100%. The trailers for this made it look absolutely execrable. I too think I need to just avoid trailers for stuff I want to see now.

I agree with you on the actress who played Grace - she was a little underwhelming. You can tell from the dialogue when they were trying to build her up into what she is supposed to become, but I don't think she sold it super well.

I disagree with you on Gabriel Luna, though. He wasn't physically large, but had a terrific sense of menace, and what's more... I don't think the giant buff bodybuilder type really works that well as a concept. Yes, it's cool, and yes, I loved the first 2 blah blah, but if you think about it - if you're making an infiltrator unit designed to blend in until it's killing time, what works better: a guy of average build with the ability to emote on a basic level, or a 7 foot jacked roid monster who can barely speak the language? Anyway, it's not like there isn't a male precedent - Robert Patrick certainly wasn't ripped by any definition.

Legion wasn't renamed -

Interestingly, the original Terminator role was meant to go to Lance Henriksen.

And I feel making it a relatively skinny bloke adds to the horror, and works better as the concept of an infiltration unit.

Consider that post Judgement Day, humanity is down to the bones of its collective arse. Society is gone. Which means people are eking out an existence.

Yet the 6’2” muscle man wanders into your camp, and nobody blinks?

Really? Really really? Everyone else is a starving waif......and someone well fed and totally ripped isn’t even in the slightest bit suspicious?

Again, I like that Lima’s Terminator has better social skills. Body shape apart (ways and means, such as Lord Haw Haw broadcasts, promising well fed and trained military support), that he can chat the breeze makes it far more convincing.

And in my mind, makes him more convincing than the T-1000 (but not the actor, Robert Patrick nailed the role). Physically looks the part, but the behaviour is off.

Particularly today we live in Uncanny Valley. Humans are very good at picking up on oddities. Consider all the times you’ve been out and about, and there’s been someone you just know isn’t quite the full shilling. And how you react to them.

Luna’s Terminator is properly convincing. Speech cadence is better. The body size is better. He plays not necessarily a better Terminator (because respect to Arnie), but a better infiltration unit.

I didn't think it was possible to make a film worse than the last jedi.
But they managed to pump some life into this bloated long dead corpse and managed to pull it off flawlessly.

Arnie is a waste of time. Stop bringing him back just for the memes. Nobody cares. Put him back in his wheel chair.

Nobody cares about your Mexican border political bullcrap.

Saying "skynet is gone" to only then replace it with the exact same thing is not clever writing.

Boring characters.
Boring plot.
Boring action.
Boring boring boring.

I found Luna to be the most menacing terminator since the T-1,000. Perhaps equally menacing, really. It wasn’t so much that he was physically dangerous so much that he came across like a sociopath who could manipulate or kill anyone at the drop of a hat. So, I found him to be scariest when he wasn’t stabbing people.

With the benefit of hindsight, I probably shouldn't have posted that Forbes article.

My B.

 ValentineGames wrote:

Nobody cares about your Mexican border political bullcrap.

To be fair, the mexican setting and getting across the border quest was something that helped connect Dark Fate to T2:JD(evading the T-1000 and aquiring arms and supplies), when all else was sandbagged.

Yeah, there probably is a political agenda behind it, but politics aside border control is an example of a system that could one day be part of our downfall - if we are not careful. And that is the strength of the Terminator series; its future is a dark mirror of the present. Its warning to us is to take responsibility for our technology - our systems - lest it becomes our downfall. Its a deep subject with many examples throughout modern life and history, but I think you see my point.

That said, fair play to your view of the film. I used to get jumped on for liking the Star Wars prequels and now The Last Jedi, which is the other end of the spectrum of this...

 Azreal13 wrote:
That wasn't aimed at you Bob, you just interrupted my addendum. But equally, a discussion would be most welcome, the same three or so people telling each other they liked the movie on a loop isn't all that interesting.

A lot of what I found most interesting in the film delves deeply into the lore and spoiler territory. The throw away line about there having been at least two other terminators/time travelers really made me wonder who or what sent them and why. The implications are that AI/sapient computing is a technology that is fairly easily achieved, that time travel technology is a generation or so away or much easier to discover for inhuman intelligences, and that the time stream will select for timelines that actively attempt to protect themselves (via desperate machines weaponizing time travel in this case). I’d love to see the next order implications, where machines learn that time travel has failed before and send units back specifically to enforce their own causality loop pasts. I don’t think a modern movie would develop that well at all, but a series could.

I also enjoyed how the future of Legion was different, and yet familiar. It sold the idea that certain technological trends will be inevitable.

I also liked how the internet-age Legion has more socially manipulative and quippy robots.

The border patrol scene seemed to be filmed as inoffensively as possible. The illegal immigrant detainees seemed pretty bland. The guards seemed pretty cynical, but when push came to stab they threw themselves between the RAV4 and their detainees. I’d say it was on par with the police in T1 in terms of “politics”, more a setting for a set piece right than a statement.

Yeah the "shoehorning in a political angle" seems like a far reach. Sarah Connor has always had connections to Mexico, certainly in the second movie - and the idea she was a wanted felon in the US wasn't exactly a reach given her actions in Terminator 2.

There was no bigger commentary involved other than what the logistics of the plot required, and if you're seeing one, then you are probably inventing one to fulfill something you require.

People who dont like particular political leanings dont like accurate representations of the issues they raise on film.

Sorry the border situation sucks and that wasnt sugar coated in the film?

I've seen precisely one accurate portrayal of the border situation on film, and it's not in a Terminator film. Always amusing to see what people "think" though, particularly those with zero experience or information on the situation down there...

Was it that Fast and Furious film where they drive through the underground tunnels?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Was it that Fast and Furious film where they drive through the underground tunnels?

Everyone knows F&F is the best franchise for political awareness

 cuda1179 wrote:
So.... What's up with this terminator? Metal endoskeleton with polymemetic alloy skin, kind of like the T-X in Terminator 3. The difference being that the liquid metal can at least temporarily split off from the skeleton to do it's own thing? I wonder if this is actually 2 terminators acting together, or a networked single entity.

Weirdly enough, now that the movie came out, I still can't answer that. They never explain how the Rev9 works at all. So, pretty much what you saw in the trailer, or barring that, what you saw with Transformers: Pretenders.

And, not to be pendantic, but

I've just gone through and pruned the thread. Going forward, please keep it civil and leave the politics at the door.

Legion and the Rev9 seem really, really predisposed to hand-to-hand combat.

Also, it takes a plasma rifle or powerful rpg to kill a Terminator or HK. Dani’s Resistance were using what looked like large caliber assault rifles. A T-800 is built for a whole other level of fighting.