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No I understand, because I saw more than just what was on the screen, I applied critical thinking to what is going on.
And what is going on with in is, in Westoros, Dany is facing the first real pushback because she is already dealing with free men and is under accustomed to adversity.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No I understand, because I saw more than just what was on the screen, I applied critical thinking to what is going on.
And what is going on with in is, in Westoros, Dany is facing the first real pushback because she is already dealing with free men and is under accustomed to adversity.

Cause Dothraki aren't free men....

You're being willfully ignorant of the things she's gone thru to get to her current position. She's fought to take cities. She's fought to keep them. She's ruled in the face of rebellion. Is she unused to having Northerner style pushback yes but that's also because it's not "we hate you die" or "we love you yay!".

Hmm, if I remember, the Dothraki imprisoned her and then she magically didn't die from a fire...... So then they followed her
I also forgot Burning men Alive for not bending the knee is benevolent.
She is just as mad as her father, it's just starting to show.

Ruthlessness is not the same as being mad. That doesn't make her good by any means.

Killing someone for not bending the knee is hardly something unique to her. She wasn’t even going to burn Dikon. He was the stupid one who jumped out and said “you gotta burn me too!”

She wasn’t going to force him to bend the knee or die till he stood up. Only Randall was going to have that choice at first.

I don't get how you guys do not see that as a bad thing. She didn't chop their heads of, she burned them with a dragon. Just like her dad did minus the dragon part.
She is clearly just like all other Targaryans

Is chopping heads off really better than burning someone to death?

The Tarley's died relatively instantly, as opposed to beheading where you actually remain conscious for upwards of a minute afterwards.

Randal Tarley was a douche anyway, he deserved it. Dikon was unfortunate, but it was his own doing.

All im saying is it isnt out of left field for Dany to go all mad queen on everyone once people start to deny her more and more.
Hell, with Jon likely keeping his lineage a secret for a bit but she will find out from someone else and that can set her off.

That was the absolute definition of a "hey its the season opener. quick! - lets catch up with every possible character and group we can!".
Very ho hum for me.
That dragon ride/chase with dani and jon was just woeful (and crap CGI to boot).

Hopefully they'll start to ramp things up.....tick tock.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No I understand, because I saw more than just what was on the screen, I applied critical thinking to what is going on.
And what is going on with in is, in Westoros, Dany is facing the first real pushback because she is already dealing with free men and is under accustomed to adversity.

NO you took a few elements of the scene - twisted them to fit your wn narrative and ignored the rest because it didn't.

Dany leads thousands of other free men and women - she has no slaves or serfs - again do you even watch the show - the Dothraki choose to follow her, various free main cast follow her because she is a strong leader with a cuase - just like others such as Jon Snow (not my fav but he has gained a following by what he believes in). She has had push back from various people like Tyrion.

Pretending that the Unsullied are still slaves is pathetic.

Dany is facing push back in the North because:

* The plot needs it
* The (not unwarranted predjudice) of the remaining northerners.

She is relatively benevolant but has found that sparing enemies leads to more grief than sparing them, ALL other rulers including Jon do the same - he says so himself. Dany kills people, so does everyone else Your love of double standards when it comes to characters is frankly astounding and in line with your lack of understanding of key elements of the plot and characters as defined on screen!

Dany could go mad yep - maybe - so could Sansa after her treatment by Ramsey - so could Jon due to pressure and lefts face it - being a dead man walking. So could lots of people.

IF Dany was the character you think she is (with no evidence and ignoring the actual show) she would have done as her ancestors - burned the Seven Kingdoms, their armies and strongholds unitl they bent the knee - it would certainly have been much easier than the path she choose. But she didn't did she.

Many apologgies if this is a common theory....

But, Song of Ice and Fire.

Night King functionally Undead, has ice to thank by the look of it.

Jurrn Snurr. Functionally Undead. Has fire to thank?

Could they be destined to end each other?

Maybe - or get married.

The Lord of Light stuff has not had much screen time since the Red Witch was sent away - we know there were similar priestess in the East - I wonder if tehre will be anything else relating to them?

I’d be interested to see if The Golden Company have any in their aide du camp?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’d be interested to see if The Golden Company have any in their aide du camp?

Be amusing if they are worshippers of the Lord of Light

 Ratius wrote:
That was the absolute definition of a "hey its the season opener. quick! - lets catch up with every possible character and group we can!".
Very ho hum for me.
That dragon ride/chase with dani and jon was just woeful (and crap CGI to boot).

Hopefully they'll start to ramp things up.....tick tock.

I liked it, better at least than most of the last season, though obviously compression is showing up again - they need to pull the trigger on huge number of storylines and character arcs within only few episodes. Many thing seemed rushed again. But at least we are done with the stabbings now, or so it seems. Dear Lord I was sick of them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Many apologgies if this is a common theory....

But, Song of Ice and Fire.

Night King functionally Undead, has ice to thank by the look of it.

Jurrn Snurr. Functionally Undead. Has fire to thank?

Could they be destined to end each other?

There are endless ice and fire themes in the books. GRRM layers that stuff so there are multiple possible answers to the story’s prophecies and such. So sure, it’s possible. I think the more obvious answer is that Jon himself is the (Rhaegar’s) SOIAF. Stark and Targaryen. The latter with their ties to dragons, the former with their possible ties to the Others/WWs (the books seem to hint at that last item).

The Night King is a different dude in the books. Historically there was a leader of the Nights Watch who took a bride from north of the wall with pale white skin and clear bright blue eyes. He declared himself the Night King and turned the Nights Watch into an army and attacked the 7 kingdoms from the wall. After a Targaryen beat them back he added the stipulations to the nights watch oath about taking no wives and wearing no crowns along with ensuring that their keeps had no walls to protect them from the south.

The guy they call the Night King in the show just doesn't exist in the books thus far.

And the tale of the NK also says that his name was Stark. The Starks and the Others/WWs seem to have a lot of ties.

Why must there be a Stark in Winterfell? What exactly is going on with those crypts? Why are they part of the oldest construction of the castle, which was mostly built later? Why are the crypts always cold, despite Winterfell being built over hot springs? Is the oldest section really collapsed...or sealed?

Most of this speculation may nowhere...or not. There's just such incredible depth to the books.

 gorgon wrote:
And the tale of the NK also says that his name was Stark. The Starks and the Others/WWs seem to have a lot of ties.

Why must there be a Stark in Winterfell? What exactly is going on with those crypts? Why are they part of the oldest construction of the castle, which was mostly built later? Why are the crypts always cold, despite Winterfell being built over hot springs? Is the oldest section really collapsed...or sealed?

Most of this speculation may nowhere...or not. There's just such incredible depth to the books.

Well, the Starks, and most of the houses that ruled the 7 kingdoms pre Targaryen, are the ones that fought and beat the Others during the Long Night. The wall was built by Bran the Builder after the Long Night and founded House Stark. The Others don't appear to be humans made into monsters in the books. In fact, right from opening chapter 1 of book 1 they are VERY clearly something completely other than human (Hence them being called the Others). White Walker is the name given mostly to the Wights who are just undead minions.

If there is any link in the books to the Starks in general and the Others it's that the Starks helped beat them and then (at least helped and took credit for) built the most lasting defense against them.

While I agree that the Others don't *seem* to be former humans, Old Nan's story says the NK gave his soul to her when he gave her his seed. A transformation then? I think it's possible. Only GRRM and the show runners really know what the upcoming books will say about it.

Also, that story suggests interbreeding. And it may be that her story isn't a literal truth but an allegory about the Starks and Others sharing a bloodline. Warging is a magical ability that comes from somewhere, and multiple Starks have it. It also has some parallels in the Others' ability to control the wights.

Having said that, I think the blood source is the Children of the Forest. The Starks are closer to the old religion than any other house, as demonstrated by the weirwood inside the walls of Winterfell. The crannogmen also seem close to the CotF, and Jojen had similar abilities.

GRRM has said that the Others control over the wights is not the same as what a Warg does. In all ways in all his descriptions of them they are always set apart. Mankind and life in general are things supported by the lord of light. The others are children of the Dark Other. A cruel god of death and dark and cold.

If any of the gods in GoT are real its those 2 gods.

How brutal would it be, if the wight leading the attack on Winterfell happened to be a badly rotten body, with a Direwolf head stabled to the neck?

Are any of the wolves left?

Ghost and numeria

I never even thought who the Night King was as being that Important, what I thought was important was their origin, being First Men transformed children, who those men where is not important, being so long ago.
But that is just me.

Bank Holiday in the U.K. tomorrow.

So I can totes stay up to watch it this week. Yay!

Undead Hodor returns, too slow to remember he's actually supposed to be dead and under magic control he fights and kills the Night King, saving the entire kingdom and is crowned King. Best ending ever.

 gorgon wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Many apologgies if this is a common theory....

But, Song of Ice and Fire.

Night King functionally Undead, has ice to thank by the look of it.

Jurrn Snurr. Functionally Undead. Has fire to thank?

Could they be destined to end each other?

There are endless ice and fire themes in the books. GRRM layers that stuff so there are multiple possible answers to the story’s prophecies and such. So sure, it’s possible. I think the more obvious answer is that Jon himself is the (Rhaegar’s) SOIAF. Stark and Targaryen. The latter with their ties to dragons, the former with their possible ties to the Others/WWs (the books seem to hint at that last item).

One of the few times it’s specifically called out is when Danny sees the visions across time in the house of the undying where she sees Rhaegar with baby Jon saying “his is the song of ice and fire. “

 Lance845 wrote:
Ghost and numeria

It doesn't appear that the show are bothering with either any more - too costly I bet.

Undead Hodor returns, too slow to remember he's actually supposed to be dead and under magic control he fights and kills the Night King, saving the entire kingdom and is crowned King. Best ending ever.

Never seen what the big deal is about Hodor.

From what I understood was it wasnt cost, but annoyance with filming them and animal filming laws.
Same reason why horses dont appear THAT much when in the books, they should have.