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2019/05/12 19:55:40
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
I’m a reluctant painter, and the easier the products make it, the more enthused I am.
It also opens up a good number of armies to me, which I wouldn’t consider before due to the time it’d take to paint them. Guard, Orcs/Orks, Gobbos, Nids, Beastmen, Skaven. Loads.
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NinthMusketeer wrote: Having looked through more examples/experiences... I'm not sure. I'll have to try it for myself, because the potential seems there and despite claims otherwise do not see another product that actually behaves the same way.
Previous GW Washes did exactly the same, but they were never advertised as 1 Layer to get the job done but in addition to regular Citadel paints.
But lot of people used it that way and were therefore angry that GW removed them after while to promote their current Base/Layer/Shade system
I am really surprised that people forgot about those in such a short timeframe or just never believed those guys on the internet that White Primer + Citadel Wash allows very good results very fast, as GW told them they are not meant to be used that way.
GW 2019: this is the best Paint ever, there has never been something like this before and painting armies will be much fast now
People jumping the hypetrain as 1 Layer over white primer was impossible until that day
GW 2011:
Spoiler:
I could understand it if a different company would have made them in the past, but it was GW itself who did it. Therefore I won't understand the hate against people who say that this is nothing special. It is not, it was done by GW before but killed again for unknown reason (maybe they did not sold enough other paints any more) and now re-invented after people already have found alternatives
It is really good that GW brings those old Washes finally back, as my last bottle Asurmen Blue is getting empty and there is no similar dark blue Wash out there, with a wider range of colours.
But it is nothing new or special, more like correcting a bad mistake (killing their best painting product) and I do not jump on the hypetrain because I am not sure if they will stay longer or be removed again like the last time.
I used those washes quite a lot (I don't have any more because I used it all) and still have models that I speed-painted that way. So yeah, I 'remember' perfectly well how it looks. And it does not look like these new paints do. The passive-aggressive 'you are too blind to see it' tone certainly does you little favors; perhaps it is your eyesight simply lacking the clarity to make out the distinction?
Once i have tried them and they do a decent job then I'm probably going to pick up a set of the paints. Chances are I will still use my current time consuming (I am an especially slow painter) for my GW models but will instead use the Contrast paints to get through some of the miniature board game backlog I have.
Based on the videos I could see myself knocking out the entire wave 1 of the Hellboy board game in a weekend and the Journey in Middle-Earth models over a few evenings.
I will still stick to metallic paint and wash for the metals as I don't think Contrast pulls them off well enough I can see adding some Contrast techniques to my current painting method such as using them over metallic to get some nice coloured metal.
2019/05/12 21:33:56
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
Here's a great video if people haven't seen it of how quick you can paint with this and how dark/rich the colors are. There's also some good info in here.
For those that don't want to watch, here's the takeaway.
GW will release two primers that are made to work best with Contrast paints. They are NOT NECESSARY, but are formulated to be super smooth (much smoother than Corax White). This means that as long as you have a very smooth base coat, the Contrast paints will work just fine.
They will work over metallics, they work with other paints, you can use washes over them to change the colors, etc.
DO NOT ADD WATER. They need no thinning and actually work worse with water.
Those are the key things that I heard from the salesperson in the video
2019/05/12 21:48:09
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
Here's a great video if people haven't seen it of how quick you can paint with this and how dark/rich the colors are. There's also some good info in here.
For those that don't want to watch, here's the takeaway.
GW will release two primers that are made to work best with Contrast paints. They are NOT NECESSARY, but are formulated to be super smooth (much smoother than Corax White). This means that as long as you have a very smooth base coat, the Contrast paints will work just fine.
They will work over metallics, they work with other paints, you can use washes over them to change the colors, etc.
DO NOT ADD WATER. They need no thinning and actually work worse with water.
Those are the key things that I heard from the salesperson in the video
It's the same video that was posted by Chikout HERE if you've already seen The 2Ps Podcast video.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2019/05/12 22:13:26
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
DO NOT ADD WATER. They need no thinning and actually work worse with water.
So... what do we thin them with?
After all, they're in GW pots, so some will be half dried out when you buy them. The rest will dry out rapidly like most GW paints seem to in those pots.
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I tried dabbling with 40k9/10 again and tried AoS3 - Nice models, naff games, but I'm enjoying HH2 and loving Battletech Classic and Alpha Strike.
2019/05/12 22:20:40
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
DO NOT ADD WATER. They need no thinning and actually work worse with water.
So... what do we thin them with?
After all, they're in GW pots, so some will be half dried out when you buy them. The rest will dry out rapidly like most GW paints seem to in those pots.
... to help you experiment with this new paint, we’ll also be launching a new Contrast Medium which gives pros even more opportunities to play with this new paint’s unique properties...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2019/05/12 22:21:27
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
DO NOT ADD WATER. They need no thinning and actually work worse with water.
So... what do we thin them with?
After all, they're in GW pots, so some will be half dried out when you buy them. The rest will dry out rapidly like most GW paints seem to in those pots.
The Contrast Medium they announced. Similar to Lahmian Medium, but will maintain the Contrast properties.
Freeflow44 wrote: Contrast paint sounds great, but if GW really want to get me excited, just start selling paint in proper dropper bottles
I detest roller bottles, but I paint straight from the pot and I am not a great painter. I’ve only had three pots since they switched from the old bolted shell style bottles to these that have dried out, each of those were because I either added water or left the lid off .i have army painter and some Vallejo in dropper bottles and have them all set aside as I hate wasting it by pouring out more than I ever use.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
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2019/05/13 03:18:22
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
Freeflow44 wrote: Contrast paint sounds great, but if GW really want to get me excited, just start selling paint in proper dropper bottles
I detest roller bottles, but I paint straight from the pot and I am not a great painter. I’ve only had three pots since they switched from the old bolted shell style bottles to these that have dried out, each of those were because I either added water or left the lid off .i have army painter and some Vallejo in dropper bottles and have them all set aside as I hate wasting it by pouring out more than I ever use.
This is me. I've never had issues with Citadel paints drying out unless I left the bottle open. Dropper bottles would be great, but there's too much hyperbole about the Citadel paint pots.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
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2019/05/13 03:23:19
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
I dunno, I think they suck, and this is after 20+ years with GW. The lid is especially bad, as paint always wicks into the lid at the back under the hinge, so I periodically have to scrape out the inner ring of dried paint.
Not as bad as the old style with a twist lid, but still behind all the competitions' offerings. Hell, I still have pre-bolter shell snap-top hexagonal pot GW paints that are still good (anyone remember colored metallics like Amethyst Purple?). Even those would be better than the current bottles. The tops just suck.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2019/05/13 04:11:12
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
hotsauceman1 wrote: IMO with these new paints, there is no excuse for unpainted armies
Honestly with coloured primers, washes, etc...there hasn't been an excuse for years.
Coloured primer does one colour. Models generally have more than 1 colour in them. No good method to do in one step what has been shown with stock colours(mixing with water etc isn't quick and consistent enough). Ap's products might be similar but availability is issue. These will be available at your store without needing specific order with delay. Definite plus
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/05/13 04:37:34
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
These are great for new painters, but they still demand accuracy and patience. Paint all at once and you will have colours running into each other and causing havoc, much better to take the time and let each colour dry. Neatness is also a necessity, so thinking you are going to get a 100+ model army painted up in a week may be taking it a bit far.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: These are great for new painters, but they still demand accuracy and patience. Paint all at once and you will have colours running into each other and causing havoc, much better to take the time and let each colour dry. Neatness is also a necessity, so thinking you are going to get a 100+ model army painted up in a week may be taking it a bit far.
They will probably be fine for batch painting. By the time you reach the end of the line, the initial color will probably be dry enough to move on to the next one. If you just work on just one dude at a time, it will be a disaster.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: These are great for new painters, but they still demand accuracy and patience. Paint all at once and you will have colours running into each other and causing havoc, much better to take the time and let each colour dry. Neatness is also a necessity, so thinking you are going to get a 100+ model army painted up in a week may be taking it a bit far.
They will probably be fine for batch painting. By the time you reach the end of the line, the initial color will probably be dry enough to move on to the next one. If you just work on just one dude at a time, it will be a disaster.
For sure, just concentrating on one colour at a time will be best and it will be amazing for troop types that are mainly one colour of skin or armour (well I am not fully sold on the technique for non-organic surfaces but time will tell). I am intrigued to see how Apothecary White works as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/13 04:52:29
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: These are great for new painters, but they still demand accuracy and patience. Paint all at once and you will have colours running into each other and causing havoc, much better to take the time and let each colour dry. Neatness is also a necessity, so thinking you are going to get a 100+ model army painted up in a week may be taking it a bit far.
According to some of the reviews, the paints actually dry relatively fast, like 10 minutes. That's a lot faster than most washes which take closer to 30 to completely dry on a model.
And a lot of the speed comes down to the kind of model/army you're painting.
Skeletons? Prime > Contrast bone > metal parts > Done
Orks? Prime > Contrast green > Contrast cloth > metal parts > Done
Tyranids? Prime > Contrast A > Contrast B > Done
Seraphon? Prime > Contrast scale color > Contrast shield color > metal parts > Done
Imperial Fists? Prime > Contrast yellow > Red trim > metal parts > Done
As soon as you throw in more detail or a more complicated scheme, it gets a lot more difficult and you have to be pickier about how you use these paints. Things like the checkerboard pattern on Orks will not be contrastable. Howling Griffons, just no. Ulthwe eldar? Better off painting the old fashioned way between that black and bone color. Black Legion? They're black and gold... Sure you could use the black Contrast, but that doesn't help you with the gold part. Same with Custodes. No gold Contrast. You're better off priming gold and then washing agrax or reikland.
But for a good 90% of armies, these paints will be a godsend. Anything organic (daemons, goblins, sylvaneth) are all going to be stupidly easy. I'm already regretting priming some of my models black. My next army I'll be priming white in prep for Contrast.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/13 04:56:36
2019/05/13 05:19:47
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: These are great for new painters, but they still demand accuracy and patience. Paint all at once and you will have colours running into each other and causing havoc, much better to take the time and let each colour dry. Neatness is also a necessity, so thinking you are going to get a 100+ model army painted up in a week may be taking it a bit far.
Batch painting is your friend. Unless they take significantly more to dry than shades shouldn't be issue. I have never really had to wait. If i feel like continuing just start with models i washed first
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/05/13 06:01:11
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
I can see what GW is trying to accomplish with these paints, but I don't really like the results that much. A lot of the photos of Contrast painted miniatures have a very particular look, a kind of watercolor-like effect for lack of a better word, and that's not compatible visually with anything I've ever painted (aside from maybe some of my wash painting experiments). This is a completely subjective viewpoint, but I'd go so far as to call a lot of the contrast-painted models actually unpleasant-looking in some undefinable sense.
I can see the use of some of the shades for particular effects, but for an established painter with a preset workflow and preexisting paint schemes, they have less to offer than for those looking to start new armies from scratch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/13 06:03:36
The supply does not get to make the demands.
2019/05/13 06:25:33
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
I can see the use of some of the shades for particular effects, but for an established painter with a preset workflow and preexisting paint schemes, they have less to offer than for those looking to start new armies from scratch.
Those people aren"t really the target audience though. Guys with tons of unpainted are
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/05/13 06:47:24
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
NinthMusketeer wrote: The passive-aggressive 'you are too blind to see it' tone certainly does you little favors; perhaps it is your eyesight simply lacking the clarity to make out the distinction?
the passiv-agressive was not intended, sorry if it read that way.
The difference is there, but there are also 4 times the colours and different primer available, allowing different combinations. There is a special medium to thin them down and a new varnish, also effecting the outcome.
Of course, I am not sure until I tested and compared them to others, but I don't expect them to be that different or being something completley new (most intresting one will be White anyway, as if this one works well over grey Primer it will speed up a lot my Napoleonic armies and I have a good reasons to finally get some Austrians)
But I can already see people being disappointed if their expectations are not met after the first trial, as it will still take time to learn how to handle them to get something like those models shown on the promo pictures (as those have seen some additional work and not just 1 Layer out of the bottle).
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2019/05/13 06:55:39
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
NinthMusketeer wrote: The passive-aggressive 'you are too blind to see it' tone certainly does you little favors; perhaps it is your eyesight simply lacking the clarity to make out the distinction?
the passiv-agressive was not intended, sorry if it read that way.
The difference is there, but there are also 4 times the colours and different primer available, allowing different combinations. There is a special medium to thin them down and a new varnish, also effecting the outcome.
Of course, I am not sure until I tested and compared them to others, but I don't expect them to be that different or being something completley new (most intresting one will be White anyway, as if this one works well over grey Primer it will speed up a lot my Napoleonic armies and I have a good reasons to finally get some Austrians)
But I can already see people being disappointed if their expectations are not met after the first trial, as it will still take time to learn how to handle them to get something like those models shown on the promo pictures (as those have seen some additional work and not just 1 Layer out of the bottle).
I know you feel strongly they are the same. But this pic kinda proves they really aren't. No wash new or old GW has made would saturate the gold so much to create a effect like this. You would see alot more of the gold/silver showing thru instead
Spoiler:
Even GW's glazes don't give you a effect like that. I think their is a lot of interesting effects one will be able to achieve
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/13 07:00:43
2019/05/13 07:26:25
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
I can see the use of some of the shades for particular effects, but for an established painter with a preset workflow and preexisting paint schemes, they have less to offer than for those looking to start new armies from scratch.
Those people aren"t really the target audience though. Guys with tons of unpainted are
Well, yes and no. I mean, I am a guy with tons of unpainted. But the thing is, they're all unpainted models for armies I already own, and I would have to do considerable experimentation to match existing paint schemes for (insofar as that's even possible). I don't know how common the scenario of someone with an entirely unpainted army is.
I am curious about the potential for Contrast paints for painting white armor and other light tones, where traditional washing and highlighting is often either too aggressive and darkens the result too much, or requires you to custom-mix your own washes and paint tones to an infuriating degree.
The supply does not get to make the demands.
2019/05/13 07:26:46
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
I know you feel strongly they are the same. But this pic kinda proves they really aren't. No wash new or old GW has made would saturate the gold so much to create a effect like this. You would see alot more of the gold/silver showing thru instead
Spoiler:
Even GW's glazes don't give you a effect like that. I think their is a lot of interesting effects one will be able to achieve
That looks more like Tamiya Clear Red over Gold, but there are also additional Silver Highlights on the Red colour.
So it is difficult to say if it is one layer or more and what other additional steps were done.
Freeflow44 wrote: Contrast paint sounds great, but if GW really want to get me excited, just start selling paint in proper dropper bottles
GW's current lids are the best they've ever had; easy to clean and if kept clean they form a decent seal IME. By comparison, my Vallejo bottles have split lids, split nozzles, it's hard to get the paint out of the screw threads and when they separate, there always seems to be a build-up of pigment-free medium collected in the nozzle, no matter how hard I shake. And then there's the unexpected paint volcanos - I only want to paint a couple of gems and suddenly the red paint is fountaining out of the bottle like an arterial wound.
The latter is probably something I'm doing, perhaps by storing them horizontally like wine bottles, but then with flip-top pots I can store them whatever way I want and the paint stays where it should.
Dropper bottles are fine for those who want them, but "proper"? Nah, just "different".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah I've tried glazes over stormhost silver. Takes a lot of coats to build up a metallic colour effect.
I used Druchii Violet over Army Painter Plate Mail Metal for Fulgrim and some Phoenix Terminators. Two coats did the trick.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/13 08:03:04
2019/05/13 08:20:41
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- see page#8
GW seems to be learning their lesson. Instead of watering down (and thereby making more use of the scant 12 mL bottles they use...) they're creating a product you apply quite heavily to the mini - much in line with their "douse the entire model in wash" approach of years past. At $4.55 per bottle (12 mL @ $4.55 vs. something like Vallejo at 17 mL @ $2.75-3.00) they're going to make a load of money if they bump this by a buck or two.