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Plus, it's not that companies aren't wanting to BUY it (for one thing, the chaos it will cause with Crisis on Infinite Earths alone, would mean that Sky would want to put in at least a low bid).

It's that CW/WB aren't selling it. - They're not even making the attempt.

 Compel wrote:
Plus, it's not that companies aren't wanting to BUY it (for one thing, the chaos it will cause with Crisis on Infinite Earths alone, would mean that Sky would want to put in at least a low bid).

It's that CW/WB aren't selling it. - They're not even making the attempt.

Because it's almost certainly an attempt at a The Producers style write-off.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s a popular character with a popular actress as part of a popular shared universe. I know of your political leanings and the kind of other places you post, BCB, but even you can see through your political filter to see this isn’t a born stinker, surely... inbuilt audience is inbuilt.

Yup. Also as someone not in the built-in audience I was pleasantly surprised by the first couple of episodes - the marketing had led me to expect we were going to get something in the style of the worst episodes of Supergirl, which were basically "Vote Hillary/boys are dumb and stinky", but as of yet there's been none of that. I'm more interested in seeing where Batwoman goes than I am in whatever Canaries/future timeline kids brought back to present day mutant show is born out of Arrow's final season for sure.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s a popular character...

I dunno if I'd go that far.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... with a popular actress...

Definitely wouldn't say that.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... as part of a popular shared universe.

One out'a three ain't bad.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s a popular character...

I dunno if I'd go that far.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... with a popular actress...

Definitely wouldn't say that.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... as part of a popular shared universe.

One out'a three ain't bad.

Aw bless your agenda is showing. Ruby Rose was the breakout star (arf) of OITNB and has 14.3m followers on Instagram if you need a quick popularity check. The Batwoman comics run by JH Williams III was acclaimed and successful, and seems to be the template borrowed for the show. If you’re gonna snark at least try and do it by backing it up, eh?

As far as I know, every run of Batwoman since her introduction in '52' has been well received, even if perhaps a little underrated. - With the exception of, I think it was the latter half of the New52 series, where it was basically torpedoed by editorial mandate.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Aw bless your agenda is showing.

You know what happens when you assume...

Hell, and to think I'm one of the people who actually really likes this show.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ruby Rose was the breakout star (arf) of OITNB and has 14.3m followers on Instagram if you need a quick popularity check.

*bursts out laughing* Oh! Look at her Instagram! The real measure of fame.

Seriously dude, I'm Australian. We know about Ruby Rose because she's famous for being in a few minor roles and dating one half of a pair of twin singers from my country. She's not a big star, and most of the people I've seen commenting on her work don't rate her as a particularly good actor.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Batwoman comics run by JH Williams III was acclaimed and successful, and seems to be the template borrowed for the show.

And yet, if you asked most people who Batwoman was, they'd probably say "Don't you mean Batgirl?", or, failing that, "There's a Batwoman? Since when?".

Batwoman has a TV show because WB relented, but wouldn't let them had Batman or Batgirl. It's the best they could get with the backwards way WB/DC handles their various characters in different mediums.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If you’re gonna snark at least try and do it by backing it up, eh?

If by "backing it up" means quoting Instagram numbers, then I'm really not the one that needs to try harder.

I'm eager for Batwoman to get more violent as the season goes on, as so far it's slogging through a bunch of formulaic world building, with a couple of very quick fight scenes.

It's interesting for a non-comic reader like me to see what other characters might be in the show's particular universe, though, as Wonder Woman is mentioned in the first show? Does that mean there are other Justice League members in her universe, or are they just fictional characters rather then real superheroes? How will she react to the Flash showing up if she already knows of Wonder Woman?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm eager for Batwoman to get more violent as the season goes on, as so far it's slogging through a bunch of formulaic world building, with a couple of very quick fight scenes.

That's the annoying thing about the show. It's interesting, but we kinda want it to hurry up and get further in.

Kate had been Batwoman for a while when we first met her in Elseworlds, so I'm trying to figure out when Elseworlds was set compared to when she becomes Batwoman.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
It's interesting for a non-comic reader like me to see what other characters might be in the show's particular universe, though, as Wonder Woman is mentioned in the first show? Does that mean there are other Justice League members in her universe, or are they just fictional characters rather then real superheroes? How will she react to the Flash showing up if she already knows of Wonder Woman?

Well she's already met the Flash.

This is Earth-1, so she's coming into this in a world where we already have the Flash, Green Arrow and a few others. Wonder Woman should exist, and not just because of that throwaway line but because the Legends take Helen of Troy to Themyscira so she can live out her life among the warriors though (long story...), so we know it exists.

There's no Justice League on Earth-1 though, likely because Kal El never came to Earth in this version of history (unlike Earth 38 which has both Superman and Batman).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Aw bless your agenda is showing.

You know what happens when you assume...

Hell, and to think I'm one of the people who actually really likes this show.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ruby Rose was the breakout star (arf) of OITNB and has 14.3m followers on Instagram if you need a quick popularity check.

*bursts out laughing* Oh! Look at her Instagram! The real measure of fame.

Seriously dude, I'm Australian. We know about Ruby Rose because she's famous for being in a few minor roles and dating one half of a pair of twin singers from my country. She's not a big star, and most of the people I've seen commenting on her work don't rate her as a particularly good actor.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The Batwoman comics run by JH Williams III was acclaimed and successful, and seems to be the template borrowed for the show.

And yet, if you asked most people who Batwoman was, they'd probably say "Don't you mean Batgirl?", or, failing that, "There's a Batwoman? Since when?".

Batwoman has a TV show because WB relented, but wouldn't let them had Batman or Batgirl. It's the best they could get with the backwards way WB/DC handles their various characters in different mediums.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If you’re gonna snark at least try and do it by backing it up, eh?

If by "backing it up" means quoting Instagram numbers, then I'm really not the one that needs to try harder.

Hey, if you make an edgy hot take riposte and it doesn’t resemble reality that’s on you not me. You called what I posted rubbish when it wasn’t. Apologies for assuming your intent here... but let’s not be so pithy without any backup eh? Have a great day.

If they do Crisis on Infinite Earths right, hopefully by the end of the crossover, there at least have officially stated forming the Justice League.

Of course, I've not seen Batwoman yet (because WB are being jerks to the UK) but, broadly speaking, Wonder Woman should NOT be an active hero on Earth-1. However, like someone mentioned, Themyscira and the Amazons IS confirmed to have existed on the mortal planes in the times of Ancient Greece.

Roughly speaking the Earth-1 timeline of heroes is:

Before Common Era: Vandal Savage, Hawkman, Hawkgirl are created as a result of Thanagarian Nth metal asteroids crashing in Ancient Egypt.
The 6 Totems of Zambesi are created, imbuing defenders of African tribes with various magical powers.
Magic in general is A Thing That Exists.
The League of Assassins and the Lazarus Pits are founded

1800s: Jonah Hex battles Quentin Turnbull

1940s: The first major development of metahumans in the WW2 era secret 'Justice Society of America', including the wielder of the Anansi Totem of Zambesi, Amaya Jiwe, known as Vixen. The JSA are disbanded during McCarthy-ist purges. Other heroes of this time include: Obsidian, Hourman, Doctor Midnight, Stargirl

2007: Oliver Queen begins his '5 Years of Hell'. Separately, Bruce Wayne becomes Batman. Outside of Gotham, Batman is mostly thought of as an urban legend, a crazy conspiracy theory, or a GCPD branding exercise.

2012: The Starling City Vigilante makes the news.

2013: The Canary also makes the news.

2014: The Particle Accelerator Explosion at Star Labs in Central City, creating the second great wave of Metahumans as a result of dark matter shenanigans. While metahumans are somewhat rumoured to exist beforehand, this is the year that everything came out of the shadows. The chief hero is naturally, the Flash.

2015: Through an incredibly complicated chain of events, The Green Arrow is publicly known as a hero (as opposed to The Hood, or The Arrow). He is known to be working with other vigilantes, such as Black Canary, The ATOM and Spartan.

2016: The public finds out that Aliens are real as a result of the Dominator Invasion. Earth-1 is introduced to Supergirl, an alien visitor from Earth-38.

2018: Supergirl, The Green Arrow and The Flash come to be known as 'The Trinity of Heroes.' Superman from Earth-38 also visits Earth-1 for the first time. Additionally, they visit Gotham and meet Batwoman.

2040: The Green Arrows daughter, becomes a vigilante, following in her parents footsteps.

2042: Zari Tomaz becomes the wielder of the Air Totem of Zambesi, passed down from her brother and, presumably, her family before them.

2049: The Flash's daughter becomes a superhero, XS. Or doesn't.

22nd Century: Rip Hunter (Time Traveller)

There are other various heroes too, including: The Elongated Man, White Canary, Kid Flash, Wild Dog, Mister Terrific, Firestorm and others, that aren't necessarily big or prominent names.


As for Earth 38 (The Supergirl show), the main heroes are:

Superman
Supergirl
Guardian
Martian Manhunter
Dreamer
Mon'El the Daxamite.
Referenced: Batman, but like Earth-1, is primarily a Gotham based urban legend. Is confirmed to be frenemies with Superman.

Supergirl's Earth also has the time travelling "Legion of Superheroes" from the 30th century, including Brainiac-5 and Saturn Girl


--------------

Hopefully, Crisis on Infinite Earths will result in Earth-38 and Earth-1 combining together, where we'll have a proper Justice League together and something similar to a classical DC universe.

Also, probably Earth Whatever Number Black Lightning Is On will be merged in, if that's what ends up happening, since he's in the Crisis crossover as well.

Dunno if they'll be merged, but that's more of a logistical things (BL is filmed in a different place to the rest of them). So this might be a nice bit of fun, but not something permanent.

Of course, having said that, Batwoman is filmed in Chicago (that main street they keep using is the same one as the truck flip from The Dark Knight!), and that seems integrated right away.

Supergirl was filmed in LA, but moved to Canadia when it switched to the CW.

My own feeling for Black Lightning is that we'll end up having like Earth-38 Black Lightning, rather than the TV show Black Lightning, they just end up looking the same.

I also kinda feel like, if they don't merge Supergirl and Flash together, like, what was the point of picking that Crisis?

I dunno like, I'd have thought if they were going to do an alt-Black Lightning just for the crossover, they'd have given him a different suit like the alt-Superman etc, but in the cast pic he's wearing the brand new one he just got in the last episode.

Also I kinda want to see Jennifer Pierce banter with Team Flash and the Legends at some point, so I'm hoping they do merge it in. I get that they wanted to do their own thing with the show initially, but the original reasoning that the main shows were too whacky and full of superheroes to tell a more serious story about race kinda falls flat now that BL is rampant with powered people and not-Russian covert invasions(lol).

 Yodhrin wrote:
I dunno like, I'd have thought if they were going to do an alt-Black Lightning just for the crossover, they'd have given him a different suit like the alt-Superman etc, but in the cast pic he's wearing the brand new one he just got in the last episode.

I agree, but I also did have the thought that the BL in Crisis would be a BL, not the BL.

It would be fun watching Iris trying to deal with Jen.

 Yodhrin wrote:
...not-Russian covert invasions(lol).

Never let it be said that Berlanti shows don't wear their politics on their sleeve. And forehead. And in neon lighting all around them.

It wasn't so much that making me laugh, it was the idea of a fictional former-soviet state landing hundreds of covert operatives outside an American city and the USA doing...pretty much nothing about it?

Like, the ASA knows where they are enough to send Jeff & Jen to have a pop at them, at that point would they not just call in a few of those ludicrously expensive and over-engineered tanks & planes and vapourise the lot of them?

BL has some cool ideas and characters, but the actual plots they use to move those things around on the show are often fully pants-on-head.

 Yodhrin wrote:
BL has some cool ideas and characters, but the actual plots they use to move those things around on the show are often fully pants-on-head.

That's pretty much why I stopped watching it.

If it were revealed someone's fourteen-year-old kid wrote for the show, I wouldn't be surprised because it's bizarre how much BL resembles "my first fanfic."

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Plus, it's not that companies aren't wanting to BUY it (for one thing, the chaos it will cause with Crisis on Infinite Earths alone, would mean that Sky would want to put in at least a low bid).

It's that CW/WB aren't selling it. - They're not even making the attempt.

Because it's almost certainly an attempt at a The Producers style write-off.

How’s that hot take aged given they’ve just commissioned an extra 9 episodes to extend the debut season thanks to a great reception to early episodes?

Full Season Order!

I don't know if they still call it 'the back nine' these days, but whatever the case Batwoman now has a full season order.

I think that means Legends remains the only show that gets shorter seasons, but that might be because of budget reason (big cast, lot of FX and period-based episodes).

It's still going to be weird having Kate go from newly minted super-hero to the version we saw in Elseworlds for the upcoming crossover.

Maybe we've got it all wrong. Maybe this Batwoman show isn't about the Batwoman we saw in Elseworlds, but a Batwoman from a different Earth?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s a popular character...

I dunno if I'd go that far.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... with a popular actress...

Definitely wouldn't say that.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... as part of a popular shared universe.

One out'a three ain't bad.

Aw bless your agenda is showing. Ruby Rose was the breakout star (arf) of OITNB and has 14.3m followers on Instagram if you need a quick popularity check. The Batwoman comics run by JH Williams III was acclaimed and successful, and seems to be the template borrowed for the show. If you’re gonna snark at least try and do it by backing it up, eh?

"Popular"

"Instagram"


Brotha, please.

On a related note, I will never understand "hero" worship. People get all into a tipsy over this stuff and it really doesn't matter. Like the show or don't like it, but why waste time trying to change minds?

"The baterangs were calibrated for Bruce. He had longer arms."
People actually defend this?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"The baterangs were calibrated for Bruce. He had longer arms."
People actually defend this?

People don't need to defend that. It's a comic book show. Comic book things happen in it.

 insaniak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"The baterangs were calibrated for Bruce. He had longer arms."
People actually defend this?

People don't need to defend that. It's a comic book show. Comic book things happen in it.

Being a Comic Book show is not an excuse for being bad. Daredevil exists. Iron Fist exists. Batman TAS exists.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Being a Comic Book show is not an excuse for being bad. Daredevil exists. Iron Fist exists. Batman TAS exists.

'Bad' is subjective. I found that scene amusing, and in keeping with the character setup. YMMV, obviously.


But given all of the logical, scientific, mechanical and medical incongruities scattered throughout comic book continuity, a mechanical flying gadget being calibrated to the height of the person throwing it in order to return to their hand seems an odd thing to draw the line at...

I loved that scene just for her reaction when she missed it.

My favourite line: "Are you Batsplaining to me?"

I am enjoying the show overall, despite some stunningly bad action bits.

(Batwoman and the exploding pearls. The cyanide gas bit.)

I know it's a TV show of a comic book but sometimes things just smash though my usual cheery sense of disbelief.

(I mean, I am fine with how quickly Kate manages to swap in and out of her outfits while cleaning and reapplying her eye make up.)

But overall, it's good enough to keep watching.

 Souleater wrote:

I am enjoying the show overall, despite some stunningly bad action bits.

Hopefully they'll improve once Ruby recovers from her injury.

So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, the wider Arrowverse.

As someone who greatly enjoyed Gotham, and had no real objection to the early bits of Arrow he saw....is it worth getting into? And in which case, can anyone link me to a ‘watch order’?

If you're a fan of The Room then by all means watch it.