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Legion of the Damned - Deepstriking shooting ignores cover. probably a little too niche and definitely in need of an update to their index rules.

Legion of the Damned are famous enough to get an Index Astartes article...but then if they don't make the Primaris transition they'll be forgotten and disappear.

 Elbows wrote:
Legion of the Damned are famous enough to get an Index Astartes article...but then if they don't make the Primaris transition they'll be forgotten and disappear.

Thought about your statement before.
Imo it would br a shame.

Yep, normal scale marine units which were originally metal/resin because they were small-production or special units likely will all disappear. Sad for people running off-shoot chapters etc.

Lots of units come to mind just in my own collection:
Tactical Marines
Assault Marines
Land Speeders that aren't Sammael or Talonmasters
Nephilim Jetfighter (AKA the Dark Talon's idiot cousin)
Dreadnoughts
Land Raiders
Terminators of pretty much any flavor
Drop Pods
Possessed
Helbrutes (the generic ones; the FW ones actually are decent)
Flesh Hounds
Bloodthirsters
Vespids
Crisis Suits (yes, GW gave them some help in the last CA but they are still outperformed by other units sadly)

I'd like to see Ghaz featured in more lists. He's so iconic for modern Orkz, but because he's Kultur locked into a Goff, no one really runs him. Not that Goffs are bad, but compared to Bad Moonz, Deathskullz, and Evil Sunz, they don't bring enough to the table.

Also: Killa Kanz. I feel like they would be much more competitive and useful if they could utilize Kultur and Stratagems. As they are, they're just too expensive, too fragile, and too weak to field in anything but the most casual of settings.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

I dare you to field a renegades and heretics army even in a casual environment.

There's a guy in my town with a sweet R&H army and he does very well casually and in lighter tournies. One of the first armies I played against with my EC.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Lots of units come to mind just in my own collection:
Tactical Marines
Assault Marines
Land Speeders that aren't Sammael or Talonmasters
Nephilim Jetfighter (AKA the Dark Talon's idiot cousin)
Dreadnoughts
Land Raiders
Terminators of pretty much any flavor
Drop Pods
Possessed
Helbrutes (the generic ones; the FW ones actually are decent)
Flesh Hounds
Bloodthirsters
Vespids
Crisis Suits (yes, GW gave them some help in the last CA but they are still outperformed by other units sadly)

Helbrutes and Possessed are actually decent units, at least as Death Guard.

For me it's the Repentia, Arco flaggelants, death cult assassins and crusaders. Until recently I would have said penitent engines too, but they've found a place in my lists as a counter assault unit defending my back field exorcist castle.

I have repentia and arc is and even priests, but they never make my lists...Just don't fit my play style. I know Aegis are good right now with their stratagem but they're just not my go to.

I use lots of different things people think are bad. I'd like it if they were better. So while I can't really answer the question you asked - to answer the spirit of your question -

Edit To Add: One of my favorite compliments from a guy I used to play with was he hated my lists because he couldn't figure out a target priority Any given unit had about the same priority as any other unit. Even running the same lists the games were usually different based on what he prioritized opening up opportunities for another unit. Most of my wishlist is for each army to get more of that balance.

Nearly any and every troops choice, especially in larger than minimum loadouts.

Viable fluffy but non-standard lists - i.e. Death and/or Combi-wing, The Golden Host.

Rhinos with 10-ish man Tac Squads counting any characters - Fully Mechanised SM lists.

The Fallen - especially with rules that don't require Dark Angels so they aren't narrative niche.

Flamer type weapons.

The Primaris version of a Rhi.. oh. Oops, wrong wish list.

 purplkrush wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

I dare you to field a renegades and heretics army even in a casual environment.

There's a guy in my town with a sweet R&H army and he does very well casually and in lighter tournies. One of the first armies I played against with my EC.

K, nice, ask him about how he is feeling about the state of the index garbage fire, how many units and unit concepts he had to axe, I'll wait.
Because i could literally throw out my whole army at that point thanks to renegade grenadiers not existing anymore.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 purplkrush wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
When you stop trying to min/max and roll with the waac group, all of these units are actually fun to use. I've run SG, Tacticals and Land Speeders in 8th, with great success.

But in keeping with the theme, when it comes to playing more competitively, I wish terminators were actual matches to their fulff. Neigh unkillable death machines marching slowly into the bowels of the enemy stronghold.

I dare you to field a renegades and heretics army even in a casual environment.

There's a guy in my town with a sweet R&H army and he does very well casually and in lighter tournies. One of the first armies I played against with my EC.

K, nice, ask him about how he is feeling about the state of the index garbage fire, how many units and unit concepts he had to axe, I'll wait.
Because i could literally throw out my whole army at that point thanks to renegade grenadiers not existing anymore.

Dude, you're getting as bad as Karol...

 Horst wrote:
Storm ravens, Terminators, Assault Marines, Tactical Marines.

Effectively my entire blood angels army I built in 5th edition. Completely useless now. :(

So what is remaining?
Scouts, Sanguinary Guard, smash Captains and whatnot?

Possessed, great concept, terribly outdated models and rules.

Chaplains. SM HQs have always had a revolving roster of who’s trash and who’s great. I think the last time the chaplain wasn’t at or near the bottom of that list was 3rd, where they were actually at/near the top. Which is a shame, as they really sum up the flavor of 40k in one awesome looking model.

Assault marines. The core of the marine army rests upon the tripod of Tac/Dev/Assault marines. So the lore tells us. They descend upon wings of fire to bring ruin to the foes of mankind in a maelstrom of violence. Or these days, get shot a lot before slapping their foes like a wet noodle. Even in prior editions where they were bemoaned as useless, they still could function as a bully unit. Lark around the backfield, find something weaker than them in CC, take their lunch money. But I think 8th is the weakest they’ve been, and that’s a pretty low bar. (I’m taking 20 in my next list despite this, just to get the dust off them)

Land speeders. Another unit that I enjoy that’s been classically panned. They used to have a number of useful jobs. Toss some MMs on them and they functioned as a piece of dangerous terrain. “Move your tank within 24” of here, and there is a good chance you die” I always got a lot of use out of my TML/HB speeders. They tossed enough fire downrange to be effective, but not so much to get to the top of the threat list. They could jink if things go tough, and had movement to take advantage of targets of opportunity. When wounds were allocated directionally, the ability of slide around to the right angle and drop some fire was nice. These days they are expensive, vulnerable, and lost the ability to project fire on the move effectively, which was kind of their thing.

I’d say Drop Pods, as they don’t see action. But I don’t like them. I like their concept, and the classic imagery of a marine force slamming down in planetfall. But the models never really thrilled me, and are a bear to build/paint. I’ve got 3 collecting dust. I occasionally include one, depending on the theme of a list.

Anyone with a flamer/metlagun. 8th edition really let them down in a bad way. DS range restictions, price point, rules, the list goes on. Two of the classic marine weapons are basically shelf warmers these days.

Terminators have alway sucked, but I field them anyway. They are better today then they have been in a while.

I’ll also go ahead and say assault marines. Love their esthetics and the idea of a future warrior with a jet pack rushing at you from the skies to swing a freaking chain sword at your face. They’re just very underwhelming game wise now.

Scout sentinels. I love the looks and the idea of it, but I just don’t get what it’s supposed to do. Never see it in games.

There are lots of possible contenders, but for me it has to be Terminators.

For my Dark Angel force I have 10 Knights, 5 regular, 10 Cataphractii, and various Deathwing characters such as ancients, apothecaries, captains as well as Terminator chaplain and Librarian. Hardly any of that sees play, because when I do take some they don't pull their weight at all and it's just not very fun.

Such a shame that this highly iconic line is so poor mechanically.

Assault Marines, Landspeeders (excluding characters), Dreadnoughts and Terminators are all units I used to enjoy fielding but now only see action out of nostalgia.

Some need only simple fixes: allow Landspeeders to move and shoot without penalty and give normal GW Dreadnoughts an invul save like the FW ones. Assault Marines and Terminators need more extensive overhauls.

Deathmarks. Cool looking models, nice lore, terrible, terrible rules that don't live up to their background. Best case scenario is that they will arrive, maybe kill that weak character with mortal wounds, and immediately get killed during your opponent's turn.
Worst (and more often) case scenario is that they arrive, fail to kill that character, and then get wiped out anyway.

They don't even have the marking ability from 5th ed that gave them their name, DeathMARKS.

What the gak GW?

Oh, I'd like to add Necron Warriors.

I still love the idea of a Silver Tide army, but Warriors just don't do enough to be worthwhile - and trying to buff them just feels like throwing good points after bad.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Deathmarks. Cool looking models, nice lore, terrible, terrible rules that don't live up to their background. Best case scenario is that they will arrive, maybe kill that weak character with mortal wounds, and immediately get killed during your opponent's turn.
Worst (and more often) case scenario is that they arrive, fail to kill that character, and then get wiped out anyway.

They don't even have the marking ability from 5th ed that gave them their name, DeathMARKS.

What the gak GW?

I forgot about Deathmarks. Yeah, I'll add them to my list, too.

 Nevelon wrote:
Chaplains. SM HQs have always had a revolving roster of who’s trash and who’s great. I think the last time the chaplain wasn’t at or near the bottom of that list was 3rd, where they were actually at/near the top.

Terminators have alway sucked, but I field them anyway. They are better today then they have been in a while.

Chaplains were pretty good in... 5th? I think. The one that introduced Demi- Companies who were led by either a captain or a chaplain. Chaplains took a huge hit this edition being out Special-ed by Captains and Masters.


Terminators have not always sucked. Just since 3rd Edition. In 2nd they were awesome. They had a 3+ on 2D6 armor save modified by weapon negatives and a Lascanon was only a -6, so they still saved ~25% of the time not that you saw that many Lascannon.

Saggitarii. Custodes riflemen would be great if they were Troops rather than Heavy Support and had serious weapons instead of being a glorified heavy bolter Devastator squad for three times the price.

Not Online!!! wrote:
My renegades and heretics.

This! All day long!

FWs idea of being progressive - can a perfectly good range and make you scour eBay for BSF cast offs. Way to go.

Eh, I think it's entirely too obvious that there will be a renegade guard style force which will be replacing the Renegade and Heretics. Heck, you'll probably even get an actual codex.

With the Blackstone Fortress minis you already have:

-Traitor Guard
-Rogue Psykers
-Chaos Commissar
-Chaos Beastmen
-Chaos Bulgryn/Ogryn dude

If anything, Renegades and Heretic players should be excited. I've never seen a more obvious "you're about to get an army". But then...if I'm wrong, you at least have access to new models with your crap rules.

 Elbows wrote:
Eh, I think it's entirely too obvious that there will be a renegade guard style force which will be replacing the Renegade and Heretics. Heck, you'll probably even get an actual codex.

With the Blackstone Fortress minis you already have:

-Traitor Guard
-Rogue Psykers
-Chaos Commissar
-Chaos Beastmen
-Chaos Bulgryn/Ogryn dude

If anything, Renegades and Heretic players should be excited. I've never seen a more obvious "you're about to get an army". But then...if I'm wrong, you at least have access to new models with your crap rules.

Meh, i hope IA13 like dark MEch will be included aswell, then again negavolt cultists are also there.

Burna boyz for me. They look awesome and I use them in my kommandos squads whenever i can, but as a standalone unit, they just do too little while costing too much. I feel like the Mekboyz in the unit should actually do something in their respective Lootas/Burna units to actually make their weapons more reliable. Like have it so the Mekboy in the unit allows them to reroll their random number of shots, or to add +1 to the total for each one. That would actually justify their horrendous price tag and the fact that they don't do anything for them despite costing the same and not having the same weapon as the unit.

FWIW, I also think it is blindingly obvious that a Traitor Guard Faction is coming, and soon.

Also, R&H aren't all that bad as part of a soup. 210pts (ish) buys you a 'Heretic 32', 5CP and 3 OS Troop units. Kiss-kiss, bang-bang.

 Elbows wrote:
Eh, I think it's entirely too obvious that there will be a renegade guard style force which will be replacing the Renegade and Heretics. Heck, you'll probably even get an actual codex.

With the Blackstone Fortress minis you already have:

-Traitor Guard
-Rogue Psykers
-Chaos Commissar
-Chaos Beastmen
-Chaos Bulgryn/Ogryn dude

If anything, Renegades and Heretic players should be excited. I've never seen a more obvious "you're about to get an army". But then...if I'm wrong, you at least have access to new models with your crap rules.

Isn't a Chaos Commissar really unfluffy? As Commissars are super loyal.

pm713 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Eh, I think it's entirely too obvious that there will be a renegade guard style force which will be replacing the Renegade and Heretics. Heck, you'll probably even get an actual codex.

With the Blackstone Fortress minis you already have:

-Traitor Guard
-Rogue Psykers
-Chaos Commissar
-Chaos Beastmen
-Chaos Bulgryn/Ogryn dude

If anything, Renegades and Heretic players should be excited. I've never seen a more obvious "you're about to get an army". But then...if I'm wrong, you at least have access to new models with your crap rules.

Isn't a Chaos Commissar really unfluffy? As Commissars are super loyal.

"The higher they rise the more catastrophal the fall. It's as if a dam bursts" Somewhere in a codex regarding traitor marines.
If marines can get disloyal a commisar can just aswell.

Not Online!!! wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Eh, I think it's entirely too obvious that there will be a renegade guard style force which will be replacing the Renegade and Heretics. Heck, you'll probably even get an actual codex.

With the Blackstone Fortress minis you already have:

-Traitor Guard
-Rogue Psykers
-Chaos Commissar
-Chaos Beastmen
-Chaos Bulgryn/Ogryn dude

If anything, Renegades and Heretic players should be excited. I've never seen a more obvious "you're about to get an army". But then...if I'm wrong, you at least have access to new models with your crap rules.

Isn't a Chaos Commissar really unfluffy? As Commissars are super loyal.

"The higher they rise the more catastrophal the fall. It's as if a dam bursts" Somewhere in a codex regarding traitor marines.
If marines can get disloyal a commisar can just aswell.

Honestly I'd expect a commissar to be more resistant than Marines seeing as they're basically Guard Chaplains. I would've guessed they'd all be trained as Chaos supporters from the start and be assigned to traitor guards later but there you go.