Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes

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**Hesselhof**

Hey guys just one short question: would you play dragoons in a mixed detachment?

**Suzuteo**

No. You want them pure Stygies for the -2 to hit and ability to infiltrate at the top of round one.

**Hesselhof**

K thank you, just as i thought^

What do you think about this list for itc?

Spoiler:

Want to give neutronager a chance, otherwise i replace for 2 icarus.

The 2 arc rifle i put in because points where left ^^

**Iago40k**

solid list, no doubt. get rid of the Neutronagers though...they really arent worth their points and with IH in the meta they are even worse.

**Ideasweasel**

Hey dudes, just had a practice tournament game against a friends Martian forces.

I have to say I’m quite impressed with Daedalus and zappy hands priests

They did a lot of damage to one of my knights with wrath of mars.

Anyone had much chance to test them out?

**Suzuteo**

Infiltrators are usually a safer bet than Jazz Hands. You can hide them in reserves, drop them down, and put 9 mortal wounds on a unit of your choice.

Mars Jazz Hands need to be hidden in transports usually. Otherwise, mortar-type weapons will shred them.

**Rezolut**

Hesselhof wrote:
Hey guys just one short question: would you play dragoons in a mixed detachment?

Yes. If taken like stygies you can still put them in infiltration, even in mixed detachment. Losing -1 to hit is not so big loss because it makes opponent more confused where to put fire. With -2 to hit most opponent just ignored dragoons and its bigger fire pressure for rest of your army. Mixed detachment has good variability when you play admech just like add on to another main imperial detachment (stygies infiltration, graia psychyc canceling etc. all in one pack).

**Suzuteo**

If your opponents are ignoring your Dragoons, you're doing something wrong. The reason why they're so good is that they're impossible to ignore. If they don't put anti-vehicle into them right away, in spite of the -2 to hit, the Dragoons will be close enough the next turn to charge and wreck their vehicles or trap infantry and slide their way into the backline.

I would say in every game, Dragoons are either the first unit to die or one of the most valuable units. That is why people run them.

**Iago40k**

Suzuteo wrote:
If your opponents are ignoring your Dragoons, you're doing something wrong. The reason why they're so good is that they're impossible to ignore. If they don't put anti-vehicle into them right away, in spite of the -2 to hit, the Dragoons will be close enough the next turn to charge and wreck their vehicles or trap infantry and slide their way into the backline.

I would say in every game, Dragoons are either the first unit to die or one of the most valuable units. That is why people run them.

THIS!

Also, where are we in the thinking of sticking to stygies. Is the Space Marine threat with their reroll everything crap enough to go full on Mars or maybe even smth else? Stygies still rock due to infiltrate stratagem but as more and more Marines enter the field, the -1 gets irrelevant.

But maybe we really have to go full boat party, vanguards plas, hoplits maybe even peltasts and stuff.

**Hesselhof**

Tommorow and friday i havr test games with my previous posted list, one is defenetly against iron hands

**Iago40k**

Hesselhof wrote:
Tommorow and friday i havr test games with my previous posted list, one is defenetly against iron hands

with neutronagers?

**Suzuteo**

The problem with IH is that pretty much any unit becomes OP if you stack that many bonuses onto them.

There are two AdMech lists that my group thinks may have a shot. The first being Dakkabots and Ryzaphrons; you just have to alpha the crap out of them. Get ahead, stay ahead. The second being Boatspam. The one thing IH is not is mobile. So burn 6 CP and infiltrate your entire army onto objectives. Kill the Scouts and make good trades against anything they own that is anti-infantry. Definitely try to kill their TFCs.

But the big problem is that because IH is an OP faction rather than OP units, there is massive variety and no good build that handles all cases.

**Iago40k**

Suzuteo wrote:
The problem with IH is that pretty much any unit becomes OP if you stack that many bonuses onto them.

There are two AdMech lists that my group thinks may have a shot. The first being Dakkabots and Ryzaphrons; you just have to alpha the crap out of them. Get ahead, stay ahead. The second being Boatspam. The one thing IH is not is mobile. So burn 6 CP and infiltrate your entire army onto objectives. Kill the Scouts and make good trades against anything they own that is anti-infantry. Definitely try to kill their TFCs.

But the big problem is that because IH is an OP faction rather than OP units, there is massive variety and no good build that handles all cases.

well boatspam it is then. Dakkabots and ryzaphrons are, in my opinion, inferior to boatspam in any other match up and even vs IH you need to have T1.

Addition to a boatspamlist
mixed vanguard detachment
Deadalosus
Hoplites
Hoplites
10 Mars Infiltrators

and as mentioned...maybe Peltasts can do a decent job in this circumstances

**Hesselhof**

Iago40k wrote:
Hesselhof wrote:
Tommorow and friday i havr test games with my previous posted list, one is defenetly against iron hands

with neutronagers?

I am rly unsure about this =/ the icarus receive +1 to hit if i shoot executioners but str 7 is the highest, the neutronager will get the dmg reduce but wound on a 3 guess i try one game with neutro, the other with icarus, otherwise i ll buy two more bots for the points XD

Do you think breacher will fit in my list?

Or as you say, maybe instead of onagers, a 10 man bomb of infils?

**Iago40k**

Hesselhof wrote:
Iago40k wrote:
Hesselhof wrote:
Tommorow and friday i havr test games with my previous posted list, one is defenetly against iron hands

with neutronagers?

I am rly unsure about this =/ the icarus receive +1 to hit if i shoot executioners but str 7 is the highest, the neutronager will get the dmg reduce but wound on a 3 guess i try one game with neutro, the other with icarus, otherwise i ll buy two more bots for the points XD

Do you think breacher will fit in my list?

Or as you say, maybe instead of onagers, a 10 man bomb of infils?

unsure about breachers at this point. i think they will die to early to weight of fire by the marines.
neutronagers will do you no good against repulsors and the like. if you want to kill them take either mars dakkabots or try laser balistarii but neutronagers with d3 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s against a 5++, dealing -1 and/or half dmg and a 6+++ following..that wont work. if you are not able to kill a repulsor with sub average dice you have to come up with something else.

**Hesselhof**

Mhhhhh rly weird o.O

**Suzuteo**

Iago40k wrote:
well boatspam it is then. Dakkabots and ryzaphrons are, in my opinion, inferior to boatspam in any other match up and even vs IH you need to have T1.

Addition to a boatspamlist
mixed vanguard detachment
Deadalosus
Hoplites
Hoplites
10 Mars Infiltrators

and as mentioned...maybe Peltasts can do a decent job in this circumstances

Well, I lack 5-6 Duneriders, though I do have 3 Duneriders and 3 Drills...

Spoiler:

Lol. Maybe a bit too weird. I don't have that many Calivers anyway.

Even still, the plan is mostly just to outscore them on objectives. You will likely get pounded by Lascannons every turn, but as long as they have to break through a transport then the infantry, you can outlast them with Kill 1, Hold 1, Hold More.

**Ideasweasel**

How long before GW realises their folly and nerfs iron hands into the ground in a ham fisted nature

I still can’t believe it went to print as it did. Wave 2 of the codices better be nice to Admech.

**Suzuteo**

Well, us, Grey Knights, and Necrons could all use a rewrite.

And Ynnari, I guess.

**VladimirHerzog**

Suzuteo wrote:
Well, us, Grey Knights, and Necrons could all use a rewrite.

And Ynnari, I guess.

To be fair, our codex is nowhere near as bad as Gks,Necrons and Ynnari. Its mostly that msot of our options are non-existent when it comes to non-unit choices (Dogma, Relic, Warlord traits).

We're a pretty lucky codex that got a lot of love this year with the multiple releases. All of which were good (Manipulus, Skorpius, Daedalosus).

We can also go toes to toes with the top dogs of the format (pre IH supplement).

Still, i wouldnt mind getting a codex 2.0, as long as we dont get nerfed in it.

**Vineheart01**

really all i hope for in an Admech 2.0 dex is better dogmas and the dogma-specific stratagems to make souping the various forgeworlds less of an attractive idea.
I find it annoying to keep track of whats what since i loathe painting my army in different schemes. But mono-forgeworld is kinda crap, even in a casual setting.

**VladimirHerzog**

totally agreed, having agripiina/metallica/ryza/graia/lucius playable as a mono-dogma list would be amazing. Right now mars and stygies get all the attention.

I mean, for a relentlessly advancing faction, metallica didnt even get our scout move....

**Suzuteo**

The fact that we got multiple releases is why I think we definitely will get a 2.0. Few of our stratagems work with the new stuff. Looking at the SM codex, it's 90% the same, with a few additions and reworks. And really, it's hard to see a rework being worse than what we have for WLT, relics, etc.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Last tourney Top 4s before the IH meta comes in:

Spoiler:

Funny, looks like the list I was running, only with Fulgurites instead of Hoplites and no Ryza Vanguard in the Drill. Very interesting how Cyle is just filling his Duneriders with naked Skitarii. I think it's pretty smart to just scoot them onto objectives and disembark them behind the transport, which blocks LOS.

Also interesting how he went with Mars instead of Stygies. But then again, maybe he still expected Eldar to be his greatest threat.

Spoiler:

Technically not an AdMech list. But it's a really interesting throwback. Knights with a Cawlstar.

**tneva82**

Ideasweasel wrote:
How long before GW realises their folly and nerfs iron hands into the ground in a ham fisted nature

I still can’t believe it went to print as it did. Wave 2 of the codices better be nice to Admech.

Well 2 week faq would be first but has there been any major balance changes outside those that come from fixing bugged rules(like chance to get 2++ meganobz for orks if vehicle nearby blows).

Ca is done so unless gw realised before supplement release nothing there.

Then spring faq in april.

Don't think gw has done balance fixes outside that so my guess is spring faq. So we are looking at half a year before we might see changes

**bmsattler**

When does the Chapter Approved typically drop?

**tneva82**

December.

**Pomguo**

@Suzuteo who says IH aren’t mobile? Every IH list I’ve seen from local top players has been cramming Attack Bikes, Land Speeders (and Storms), various flyers, etc to take advantage of the army-wide Machine Spirit with rerolls. They’re crazy mobile!

On another sad note I saw that the Termite Drill gets Angels of Death after the recent round of FAQs. So they get their extra AP and extra attack, while ours doesn’t even get Canticles!

**Suzuteo**

@Pomguo
If they're running that list, why not White Scars or Raven Guard?

Yeah, I saw that they get AoD and immediately had a salt storm too.

**Slayer-Fan123**

For what it's worth, I think a two detachment Graia and Stygies/Lucius can work pretty well as a Skitarii outside the standard Cawlstar. Graia with camping Rangers and infiltrating...Infiltrators (make better use of the Strat that way), and Lucius/Stygies Vanguard making their way downtown, walking fast. With or without Drills, but I preferred Drills.

**Pomguo**

Iron Hands work better for those fast Heavy weapons platforms because they give Machine Spirit “no move+shoot heavy weapon penalties” and free rerolls to all of them, which makes them much better units. White Scars and RG don’t really help these units nearly so much.