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Watch, they will lack the Fly keyword.

Anyhow, stubbers suck, so the transport and the bomber are probably going to be the best. However, the Dunerider is already excellent, so maybe just bombers.

That being said, we're going to end up out-raiding Drukhari if these are T5 MSU carriers. The idea of bringing a swarm of them and dropping them all over the place is amusing.

Also, this might not have the spoiled joint or the lever action rifle... so more to come? Maybe some Scourge equivalent for Skitarii?

New Ad mech Plane with 3 options bomber tranpost gunship Gotta be the best model of GW + sisters

I see two rumour engines here - the wings and the bombs, what about you guys?

Those could be heavy phosphor...because apparently they look the same lol

The Forgemaster wrote:I see two rumour engines here - the wings and the bombs, what about you guys?

Different Wings for sure. The rumored wings look like it belongs to infantry.

Octovol wrote:Those could be heavy phosphor...because apparently they look the same lol

Could be, might be the "smaller" phosphor variant from the kataphrons.

 0XFallen wrote:

The Forgemaster wrote:I see two rumour engines here - the wings and the bombs, what about you guys?

Different Wings for sure. The rumored wings look like it belongs to infantry.

Octovol wrote:Those could be heavy phosphor...because apparently they look the same lol

Could be, might be the "smaller" phosphor variant from the kataphrons.

Actually now i look again, the guns on the main picture are different to the ones in the detail breakout. Definitely not stubbers but not necessarily phosphor either.

The ‘feet’ intrigue me, are they purely aesthetic? That would be odd for an admech thing, what function they might have ai dont know. Perhaps it gets to ignore heavy weapon penalties by using its feet to perch on things lol

Octovol wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

The Forgemaster wrote:I see two rumour engines here - the wings and the bombs, what about you guys?

Different Wings for sure. The rumored wings look like it belongs to infantry.

Octovol wrote:Those could be heavy phosphor...because apparently they look the same lol

Could be, might be the "smaller" phosphor variant from the kataphrons.

Actually now i look again, the guns on the main picture are different to the ones in the detail breakout. Definitely not stubbers but not necessarily phosphor either.

The ‘feet’ intrigue me, are they purely aesthetic? That would be odd for an admech thing, what function they might have ai dont know. Perhaps it gets to ignore heavy weapon penalties by using its feet to perch on things lol

Maybe to simulate the hover rule.

Or, because like all admech vehicles( except skorpius??) have animalistic structures,
this one seems like a bird and or bunny. Our vehicles have a lot of purely aesthetic stuff too, in the search for knowledge our vehicles need to be prepared for anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://youtu.be/pAD_Saxsb-I?t=2636

Sweaping points changes again.

Dominus is meant to be one of the higher techpriests, right before arch magos. Is now barely 70 points.

Ruststalkers are really a joke at 9points per model, infiltrators too.

Alpha pistols are way cheaper, melee still arent though

Icarus and Neutronlaser got cheaper.

Snipers now at 12 points and more.

Anyone seen the knight changes?


It makes for funny reading. I won’t spoil the surprise...

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone seen the knight changes?


It makes for fun reading. I won’t spoil the surprise...

You mean points? It's rather expected. But Knights went out (from the European at least) meta, it has been clearly visible at the WTC championship how pressed they are. I guess the trend will continue. But drops for Armigers are actually welcomed for allying them IMO in less CP-dependant mechanized Admech variant.

You expected preceptor and gallant nerfs?

https://imgur.com/gallery/iqDeHPz

Flechette blasters cost 0, so they got significantly cheaper and the powersword stub carbine version is bad in comparison.

I want winning lotto numbers from you please

 Ideasweasel wrote:
You expected preceptor and gallant nerfs?

Yeah. Actually I thought all Questoris will go significantly up in points, as the CA was written at the time when Knights were at almost every table. The king is dead I guess.

aw i was hoping the wing rumor engine was a gargoyle-ish FA infantry.
Oh well, planes are cool too. Thing looks like its probably pricy points-wise though.
edit: actually, now that i look at it, that plane doesnt match the rumorengine wing.
HMMMM......

Let's talk Arc Rifles on Skitariii MSUs in Duneriders for a moment. I believe Arc Rifles at 2pts have became better than non-Ryza Plasma Calivers actually. For the cost of 1 Caliver (11 pts) we can field 5,5 Arcs now. So it's 2 shots vs 10 (assuming RF), and it allows to saturate 2,5 Skitarii units with special weapons. The math goes like:

T8 3+ vehs
Arcs in RF: 2,2
Caliver OC: 1,1

T7 3+ vehs
Arcs: 2,2
Caliver: 1,4

PEQ in cover
Arcs: 1,4
Caliver OC: 1,4

GEQ no cover
Arcs: 3,7
Caliver (no OC): 1,1

Also, I believe Serpentas on Dragoons might be a viable pick now, to side-shoot some pesky objective campers we dont want to charge, or to help clearing the screens that 0AP Stubbers have failed (as always) to finish off.

dadamowsky wrote:
Let's talk Arc Rifles on Skitariii MSUs in Duneriders for a moment. I believe Arc Rifles at 2pts have became better than non-Ryza Plasma Calivers actually. For the cost of 1 Caliver (11 pts) we can field 5,5 Arcs now. So it's 2 shots vs 10 (assuming RF), and it allows to saturate 2,5 Skitarii units with special weapons. The math goes like:

T8 3+ vehs
Arcs in RF: 2,2
Caliver OC: 1,1

T7 3+ vehs
Arcs: 2,2
Caliver: 1,4

PEQ in cover
Arcs: 1,4
Caliver OC: 1,4

GEQ no cover
Arcs: 3,7
Caliver (no OC): 1,1

Also, I believe Serpentas on Dragoons might be a viable pick now, to side-shoot some pesky objective campers we dont want to charge, or to help clearing the screens that 0AP Stubbers have failed (as always) to finish off.

But you also lose more standard weaponry this way. And having more quality and expensive models in transports is better, isnt it?

Thats a shout on the serpentas, will probably try that out at some point.

I was quite upset when i realized that Arc Rifles werent that great after i had already painted 6 of them on my rangers.
With that price drop...and the math shown...now im glad

 0XFallen wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
Let's talk Arc Rifles on Skitariii MSUs in Duneriders for a moment. I believe Arc Rifles at 2pts have became better than non-Ryza Plasma Calivers actually. For the cost of 1 Caliver (11 pts) we can field 5,5 Arcs now. So it's 2 shots vs 10 (assuming RF), and it allows to saturate 2,5 Skitarii units with special weapons. The math goes like:

T8 3+ vehs
Arcs in RF: 2,2
Caliver OC: 1,1

T7 3+ vehs
Arcs: 2,2
Caliver: 1,4

PEQ in cover
Arcs: 1,4
Caliver OC: 1,4

GEQ no cover
Arcs: 3,7
Caliver (no OC): 1,1

Also, I believe Serpentas on Dragoons might be a viable pick now, to side-shoot some pesky objective campers we dont want to charge, or to help clearing the screens that 0AP Stubbers have failed (as always) to finish off.

But you also lose more standard weaponry this way. And having more quality and expensive models in transports is
better, isnt it?

Arc is better than Galvanic or Rad Carbine, assuming RF range (without RF Carbine wins in clearing GEQs). My reasoning here is - we trade a Caliver punch in surgical strike in a specific point of the table, for a high saturation of medium quality shooting on all of our Skitarii. Added value is lower points cost on the said Skitarii, so the attrition is less painful, while points being saved can be spent on something else.

Octovol wrote:

Actually now i look again, the guns on the main picture are different to the ones in the detail breakout. Definitely not stubbers but not necessarily phosphor either.

The ‘feet’ intrigue me, are they purely aesthetic? That would be odd for an admech thing, what function they might have ai dont know. Perhaps it gets to ignore heavy weapon penalties by using its feet to perch on things lol

There's two different 'versions' of the feet, at least.
1:06 in the video shows the 'skids' for what looks to be the transport variant, which lacks the side guns that the one we have the picture of. That has the 'wings' on the landing assembly closed, while the gunship or whatever it is that we have a picture of has the 'wings' open and they match the rumor engine picture in that way.

More than likely the "feet" are its excuse to getting Hover access.
Would be interesting for it to have some oddly complex rule that drops the Fly keyword entirely using those legs but given they didnt do anything with the Ramp on our transport, doubt anything fancy will come from it. Its just the usual admech mechano-leg thing in the end.

So uhm, if my list is heavy on kataphrons and other special infantry like the priests and sneaky boys, then how many models will I need for a 2k list?


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PS has anyone of you tried converting the transport tank? If so how did it look?

We must be getting some sort of jetpack style model. The new model doesn't have the lever actions and the wing looks a little different. Maybe flying infiltrators? Those would look pretty sweet, or at least an equivalent

Wowwww... our army is ridiculously cheap now. What to do with these points? Lol.

Ugh so I guess I won't be finishing painting my second unit of Hoplites anytime soon. At 14 ppm, Fulgurites are absolutely nuts. They just gobble up Marines, and they're now comparable in points.

I don't have my formatter on my phone, but I'm thinking:

Mars Spearhead
Cawl
3x Crawlers
8x Infiltrators

Mars Spearhead
Daeda
3x Grators

Stygies Battalion
2x Enginseer
4x5 Vanguard with 2x Calivers
2x10 Fulgurites
2x Dunerider
2x Drills

Alkaline_Hound wrote:
So uhm, if my list is heavy on kataphrons and other special infantry like the priests and sneaky boys, then how many models will I need for a 2k list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS has anyone of you tried converting the transport tank? If so how did it look?

I've seen a 3d model in Thingiverse thats a Dunerider on Dunecrawler legs that looks really cool as a conversion.


As for model count, I run 2 transports of 10 Fulgurites with my Kataphrons personally. I guess it depends on how many points you plan on spending on kataphrons vs skitarii and how many detachments you are running.

dadamowsky wrote:
Let's talk Arc Rifles on Skitariii MSUs in Duneriders for a moment. I believe Arc Rifles at 2pts have became better than non-Ryza Plasma Calivers actually. For the cost of 1 Caliver (11 pts) we can field 5,5 Arcs now. So it's 2 shots vs 10 (assuming RF), and it allows to saturate 2,5 Skitarii units with special weapons. The math goes like:

T8 3+ vehs
Arcs in RF: 2,2
Caliver OC: 1,1

T7 3+ vehs
Arcs: 2,2
Caliver: 1,4

PEQ in cover
Arcs: 1,4
Caliver OC: 1,4

GEQ no cover
Arcs: 3,7
Caliver (no OC): 1,1

Also, I believe Serpentas on Dragoons might be a viable pick now, to side-shoot some pesky objective campers we dont want to charge, or to help clearing the screens that 0AP Stubbers have failed (as always) to finish off.

Just saying, you can't just compare Calivers to Arc Rifles like this. There's a Skitarii MSU tax per special weapon slot. Not to mention opportunity cost. Anyhow, in this case, it's 62 points for two Calivers on Vanguard versus 39 points for two Arc Rifles on Rangers. The end math is that Calivers are still better against most targets. But Arc Rifles are sort of a why not proposition for anyone bringing Rangers.

Because the range doesn't mesh well with Rangers. I know Arqs are a hard sell, but honestly they're one of the few dangerous sniping you can do as long as you get 3 in a squad and Strat them to be BS2+. That hits supporting characters HARD.

Granted I used Graia so I'm okay with the max squad sizes.

 Suzuteo wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
Let's talk Arc Rifles on Skitariii MSUs in Duneriders for a moment. I believe Arc Rifles at 2pts have became better than non-Ryza Plasma Calivers actually. For the cost of 1 Caliver (11 pts) we can field 5,5 Arcs now. So it's 2 shots vs 10 (assuming RF), and it allows to saturate 2,5 Skitarii units with special weapons. The math goes like:

T8 3+ vehs
Arcs in RF: 2,2
Caliver OC: 1,1

T7 3+ vehs
Arcs: 2,2
Caliver: 1,4

PEQ in cover
Arcs: 1,4
Caliver OC: 1,4

GEQ no cover
Arcs: 3,7
Caliver (no OC): 1,1

Also, I believe Serpentas on Dragoons might be a viable pick now, to side-shoot some pesky objective campers we dont want to charge, or to help clearing the screens that 0AP Stubbers have failed (as always) to finish off.

Just saying, you can't just compare Calivers to Arc Rifles like this. There's a Skitarii MSU tax per special weapon slot. Not to mention opportunity cost. Anyhow, in this case, it's 62 points for two Calivers on Vanguard versus 39 points for two Arc Rifles on Rangers. The end math is that Calivers are still better against most targets. But Arc Rifles are sort of a why not proposition for anyone bringing Rangers.

I'm comparing from a purely points efficiency cost. Beaides, you pay the MSU anyway, whenever you bring a double battalions setup (which is in my case a default go to, that got cheaper by 30 pts on HQs). Calivers indeed win if you need a concrete punch in the very specific place of the table from the very specific special weapon slot, but I believe they've lost a lot of the attractiveness in the big picture. As far as opportunity cost goes, well... opponent's is dropping when he pummel your forward Skitarii squads, so it's not like we are only losing strength for gaining points.

I'm imagining my 2 or 3 boats with Vanguards bringing a mixed setup - 2/2, maybe 3/1 of Arcs and Calivers now. Maybe, if I want to run Fulgurites along, it would be purely Arcs as the solid punch carry a stick.

I reckon the rumour engines of the wing, that’s similar to the new flyer’s, and the rifle are going to be for a flying character.

@dadamowsky
Sure. But I run 8 Calivers right now. That means 44 Arc Rifles. I would need to run 22 MSUs to field that many; 248 points for the Calivers versus 858 for the Arc Rifles. Efficiency that does not consider other costs can lead to distorted thinking.

Actually, I think Calivers are more relevant than ever. In the current meta, good lists:
-Go first to alpha strike very hard (vs. Marines matchups)
-Take multiple units to prevent being focused down (vs. Tau, Eldar)
-Can go 6 rounds or table the opponent with 4 rounds
-Can handle hordes (vs. GSC, Orcs, Chaos)
-Can handle flyers (vs. Eldari, Tau, Necrons)
-Can handle Knights
-Have indirect fire (vs. Guard, AdMech, Tau)