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2019/12/01 09:12:25
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
3 new flyers is awesome, really looking forward to seeing the datasheets and points costs for them. Not a bad time to be Ad Mech players really combined with the CA drops. Bad time to be my wallet though
Efficiency that does not consider other costs can lead to distorted thinking.
I agree with this massively Suzuteo - efficiency is very important but it needs to be balanced with effectiveness. One without the other doesn’t necessarily lead to a good list and it’s important to remember that the former doesn’t necessarily equal the latter.
As I see it calivers are for concentrated firepower on Vanguards in transports (particularly Drills) and arc rifles are for MSU Rangers if you have points spare. Even then I often find calivers a little underwhelming, but it’s a tactic that we can’t do in other ways without out-of-the-meta lists (like Lucius).
2019/12/01 13:38:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Tiberius501 wrote: I reckon the rumour engines of the wing, that’s similar to the new flyer’s, and the rifle are going to be for a flying character.
I'm personally thinking that it will be two different items entirely.
Yeah the rumour engine is definitely not the same wing as any of the archeopter variants.
It’s interesting that all ruststalker and infiltrator loadouts cost the same now and a priceps is the same cost as a regular now. 11 for a ruststalker, 14 for an infiltrator. Though the only time youd take Ruststalkers is if you didn’t have the 30 pts difference to a squad of fulgurites and you still wanted a melee option.
Nice drops on our hq, datasmiths are still worthless but hey, at least i now have a decent chunk of saved points to spend on other stuff.
6pt reduction on heavy grav is nice for me too as i personally dont get on with plasma.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 16:32:40
2019/12/01 17:03:20
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
still dont feel like heavy grav is worth it. The strength difference is my issue with it, even ignoring Ryza stratagem existing. For a measily 3 extra points (its actually cheaper than plasma now) you get +3 strength and proper AP. The extra damage against 2+ save targets is pretty meh given thats pretty much only TEQs, everything else with a 2+ save thats fielded have high toughness too. A lot of targets you want to remove quickly are Sv3+ atm, given primaris are everywhere.
It doesnt seem like as bad of an option now, but i still dont think i'll consider it over plasma. Upside for me though is my kataphrons are able to swap that weapon anyway so if im proven wrong, no harm to me lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 17:04:20
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/12/01 17:26:14
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: still dont feel like heavy grav is worth it.
The strength difference is my issue with it, even ignoring Ryza stratagem existing. For a measily 3 extra points (its actually cheaper than plasma now) you get +3 strength and proper AP. The extra damage against 2+ save targets is pretty meh given thats pretty much only TEQs, everything else with a 2+ save thats fielded have high toughness too. A lot of targets you want to remove quickly are Sv3+ atm, given primaris are everywhere.
It doesnt seem like as bad of an option now, but i still dont think i'll consider it over plasma. Upside for me though is my kataphrons are able to swap that weapon anyway so if im proven wrong, no harm to me lol
Your grav stats seem to be out a bit. Both grav and plasma are -3 ap and 1 damage. The difference comes against targets with a 3+ save, which is just about anything you’d want to take lots of wounds off. With a ryza and a strategm plasma is still better for sure, but i’ll nevr run ryza so i’m comparing them plain. The +2 str is the difference. A wound roll without increasing the plasma str you’re wounding t6 on 3, t7 on 4 and t8 on 5. Heavy grav wounds all those on 5+ but with a guaranteed 5 shots for less points and a potential for much more damage without having to spend cp.
I just dont like plasma, without the ryza benefits and strategms its just a high str high ap heavy bolter for many more points.
2019/12/01 18:38:55
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: @dadamowsky
Sure. But I run 8 Calivers right now. That means 44 Arc Rifles. I would need to run 22 MSUs to field that many; 248 points for the Calivers versus 858 for the Arc Rifles. Efficiency that does not consider other costs can lead to distorted thinking.
Actually, I think Calivers are more relevant than ever. In the current meta, good lists:
-Go first to alpha strike very hard (vs. Marines matchups)
-Take multiple units to prevent being focused down (vs. Tau, Eldar)
-Can go 6 rounds or table the opponent with 4 rounds
-Can handle hordes (vs. GSC, Orcs, Chaos)
-Can handle flyers (vs. Eldari, Tau, Necrons)
-Can handle Knights
-Have indirect fire (vs. Guard, AdMech, Tau)
When I have 8 special weapons slots (and I'm not running Ryza), I'd rather give my Skitarii more efficient option to bring more things to the table overall. And the actual points difference in these 8 slots is huge - 88 vs 16. It's 6 wounds and 4 HAR worth of T5 Breachers. It's 5 Fulgurites. A point short of a Dunerider. From my experience, Skitarii die no matter the Forgeworld and setup, and they do best being hidden behind a LoS-break claiming objectives with their obsec. So unless I build a specialist nuking option*, I'd rather have something to do less damage, but overall point for point more effective, claiming things for me mid-board.
* And as a matter of fact, I will bring 8 Calivers in Ryza, to ride two boats for mid ruins. But the event is next weekend and rules cut-off will not include CA, so this is the very instance where Calivers are obviously superior. Otherwise, I would be seriously torn whether I should have those 72 points free or plasma heavy Skitarii for smoking out Primaris out of their holes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 18:40:06
Vineheart01 wrote: still dont feel like heavy grav is worth it.
The strength difference is my issue with it, even ignoring Ryza stratagem existing. For a measily 3 extra points (its actually cheaper than plasma now) you get +3 strength and proper AP. The extra damage against 2+ save targets is pretty meh given thats pretty much only TEQs, everything else with a 2+ save thats fielded have high toughness too. A lot of targets you want to remove quickly are Sv3+ atm, given primaris are everywhere.
It doesnt seem like as bad of an option now, but i still dont think i'll consider it over plasma. Upside for me though is my kataphrons are able to swap that weapon anyway so if im proven wrong, no harm to me lol
Your grav stats seem to be out a bit. Both grav and plasma are -3 ap and 1 damage. The difference comes against targets with a 3+ save, which is just about anything you’d want to take lots of wounds off. With a ryza and a strategm plasma is still better for sure, but i’ll nevr run ryza so i’m comparing them plain. The +2 str is the difference. A wound roll without increasing the plasma str you’re wounding t6 on 3, t7 on 4 and t8 on 5. Heavy grav wounds all those on 5+ but with a guaranteed 5 shots for less points and a potential for much more damage without having to spend cp.
I just dont like plasma, without the ryza benefits and strategms its just a high str high ap heavy bolter for many more points.
In practical terms though I am never not overcharging plasma - because with three sources of +1 to hit, there’s always a way. And even if I somehow couldn’t pull them all off, there’s always the chance to overcharge one and then revive one later. Yes, it costs a CP but admech has a lot of CP for this exact reason, imo. Adding +1s here and there. Meanwhile, we have a glut of S5 and S6 attacks (electropriests, skorpius mortars, robot shooting, etc) but very little at S8 or above.
2019/12/01 23:47:39
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Anyone have a link to the CA19 Admech wargear points pdf? I read on the Goonhammer review article that the enhanced data tether went down to one point. True? I like to add those when I have the free points to large squads of vanguard with plasma jumping out of drills and using the stratagem to increase hit rolls along with wrath of mars.
2019/12/02 02:08:53
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Is an infantry based horde of skitarii any viable ? Probably supported by a few onager and I really like the look of the dragoons. No duneriders or flyers or Cawl or kataphrons.
Since I discovered Contrast, a whole new world of horde armies opened to me (yeah I'm a bit late).
godardc wrote: Is an infantry based horde of skitarii any viable ? Probably supported by a few onager and I really like the look of the dragoons. No duneriders or flyers or Cawl or kataphrons.
Since I discovered Contrast, a whole new world of horde armies opened to me (yeah I'm a bit late).
I would think that infantry horde can work well, with Duneriders. Without them you’re kinda just letting the opponent get an extra turn or two of free shooting on them while slowing your own board control and threat range by a turn or two also. Footslogging is not very good this edition.
2019/12/02 13:54:21
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I'm pretty damn happy about our CA reductions. All stuff that is cool but too expensive is now cheaper giving me spare points to upgrade more efficient units.
2019/12/02 14:06:10
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
godardc wrote: Is an infantry based horde of skitarii any viable ? Probably supported by a few onager and I really like the look of the dragoons. No duneriders or flyers or Cawl or kataphrons.
Since I discovered Contrast, a whole new world of horde armies opened to me (yeah I'm a bit late).
I would think that infantry horde can work well, with Duneriders. Without them you’re kinda just letting the opponent get an extra turn or two of free shooting on them while slowing your own board control and threat range by a turn or two also. Footslogging is not very good this edition.
Of course it's not for Skitarii. We lost our footslogging perks.
2019/12/03 08:46:04
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Heavy Support - 304 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Smoke Launchers
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 383
HQ - 50 1x Daedalosus
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Suzuteo wrote: Infantry horde is not viable in general. You actually have to build your entire playstyle around being able to manage large numbers of infantry.
I really think mechanized infantry is the way to go for AdMech right now:
Heavy Support - 304 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Smoke Launchers
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 383
HQ - 50 1x Daedalosus
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
@Suzuteo priests go in the drills or plasma goes in the drills?
ALSO, probably a good idea to move Daedalous to the Stygies detachment and an Enginseer to the Mars one so that you only have one useless guy who can’t repair anything, and one extra Mars repairman for your parking lot, no? Or are you sending the Enginseers in the drills to... repair one if it survives?
2019/12/03 13:42:58
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
What do you guys think of Hydraulic claws on breachers and a manipulus with prime hermeticon in a Ryza detachment, alongside maybe destroyers, although I don't know if they are good as they are so glasscannon, if taking them, at which size?
In that battalion I have an enginseer for a drill and either 2x5 plasma rangers, or vanguards? Or take a full squad of 10 with edt, 3 plasmas to better use the + to hit and plasma specialist?
Especially against marines, as they seem to be the majority now?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 13:55:06
2019/12/03 14:08:05
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Pomguo wrote: @Suzuteo priests go in the drills or plasma goes in the drills?
ALSO, probably a good idea to move Daedalous to the Stygies detachment and an Enginseer to the Mars one so that you only have one useless guy who can’t repair anything, and one extra Mars repairman for your parking lot, no? Or are you sending the Enginseers in the drills to... repair one if it survives?
I usually put the Fulgurites (used to be Hoplites, but CA 2019 lets me upgrade) in the Drills and infiltrate them forward to hold the midfield. I put the Calivers in them when I need to deep strike them. Usually against artillery-heavy lists that aren't going to challenge me for the midfield and instead want to just focus on bombarding me to death.
I split the HQs this way so I would have one less drop when stuff one each into the Drills.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 14:09:44
2019/12/03 14:17:42
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Alkaline_Hound wrote: So uhm, if my list is heavy on kataphrons and other special infantry like the priests and sneaky boys, then how many models will I need for a 2k list?
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS has anyone of you tried converting the transport tank? If so how did it look?
I've seen a 3d model in Thingiverse thats a Dunerider on Dunecrawler legs that looks really cool as a conversion.
Anyone have a link to the leg conversion file? I'd love to kitbash that up.
Also, not sure if this picture has been posted yet:
Spoiler:
Seems like the front guns might be Phosphor Blasters.
| | Krieg | | 30k: Alpha Legion | | Blackshields
2019/12/03 15:48:28
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Alkaline_Hound wrote: So uhm, if my list is heavy on kataphrons and other special infantry like the priests and sneaky boys, then how many models will I need for a 2k list?
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS has anyone of you tried converting the transport tank? If so how did it look?
I've seen a 3d model in Thingiverse thats a Dunerider on Dunecrawler legs that looks really cool as a conversion.
Anyone have a link to the leg conversion file? I'd love to kitbash that up.
Also, not sure if this picture has been posted yet:
Spoiler:
Seems like the front guns might be Phosphor Blasters.
Here’s the link on Thingiverse. I saved it in case I ever get around to buying a 3D printer for modeling conversions.
So on a more unrelated question... I know that asking this in general is most likely not answerable, but I dont want to dive into list discussion here on rnd non-tourney lists
At what point level do you guys usually switch over to 2 Battalions or even a Brigade?
When do additional CP outweigh the addition of more firepower like Skorpius and Onagers?
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2019/12/03 18:51:20
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Thairne wrote: So on a more unrelated question... I know that asking this in general is most likely not answerable, but I dont want to dive into list discussion here on rnd non-tourney lists
At what point level do you guys usually switch over to 2 Battalions or even a Brigade?
When do additional CP outweigh the addition of more firepower like Skorpius and Onagers?
I run one battalion at 1000 and smaller games and switch to two Battalions at 1500 points. Two Battalions works better for most armies than a Brigade in my opinion, especially with Admech as three separate Fast Attack units is generally not feasible or desirable.
2019/12/03 19:19:15
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
If you are building tourney, it's hard to justify Ironstriders now that Fists bolter spam exists. That means Brigade is out of the question. Furthermore if you do do Brigade, it probably is either Mars, Stygies, or Mixed, which reduces versatility.
Maybe if the rumored new flying infantry are Sicarians in the Fast Attack slot?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 19:19:24
2019/12/03 20:03:07
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: The Kharon Walker has one set too many legs IMO.
If you are building tourney, it's hard to justify Ironstriders now that Fists bolter spam exists. That means Brigade is out of the question. Furthermore if you do do Brigade, it probably is either Mars, Stygies, or Mixed, which reduces versatility.
Maybe if the rumored new flying infantry are Sicarians in the Fast Attack slot?
Yeah, the Kharon Walker would look better with just the 6 side legs (skip the 2 on the back side).
Also, we really need a fast attack option that isn't the Ironstrider/Dragoon model. I had not heard about this rumored flying Sicarian, but that would be a welcome addition!
2019/12/03 20:06:48
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The rumor is stemmed from the Rumormill very mechanicus-looking wing. It doesnt match the flier we got a moment ago at all, and its design follows usual ranger-sized model design not big vehicles. So lot of us (myself included) are hoping for some kind of gargoyle like thing to show up that counts as our jumppack models. And of course it would make sense for it to be FA, both because we are painfully lacking that slot and why would a jumping unit not be FA? edit: this thing https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/05/the-rumour-engine-november-5th-2019/
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 20:12:54
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/12/03 21:37:00
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Don't forget there's that skitarii looking lever action in the holster that was also previewed. I'm assuming it's some sort of jetpack style harassment unit, a scout unit, or perhaps something intended to assassinate things. That or it's a third unit, but unless it's the skitarii alpha we've been asking for since skitarii dropped, who knows what it could be
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2019/12/03 22:33:51
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
i cant imagine theres yet another unannounced unit for admech but then again i was not expecting the flier at all so.... no idea what could come next.
Someone at GW loves admech lately.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/12/03 23:14:57
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
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Krieg | 
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