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2019/12/09 05:53:58
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: So I thought about it, and I just realized that I can use a Greyfax instead of Assassins. Same point cost, and it pretty much covers both Culexus and Vindicare in the Chaos matchup.
Assassins have flexible deployment though and the ability to just pick one on the fly is SUPER beneficial.
Though I guess not having to pick between them and instead getting both is even more beneficial? If only against Chaos then meh, though. Still, saves 2CP on top of that.
You get both on a model that had no flexible deployment, would have to steal a transport for you to get anywhere, and most importantly isn't all that deadly.
It isn't like it's that hard to get CP either with this army.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/12/09 08:50:01
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Gareth_Evans wrote: I think the painting requirements are insane. This is from someone who spends a lot of time painting models. For example,
My rangers have brown leather "ranger" jackets
My vanguard have "soviet storm" red jackets
Special Weapons dudes have green jackets
For my upcoming Sisters army, its hard to tell the difference between say a Celestian and a basic Battle Sister squad. Celestians are going to be painted a different color to identify them.
I mostly paint my tanks an off-white color. etc.
I don't understand the fascination with mono-schemes? Why is it that anally retentive people must always get their way. An anal personality is defined by Sigmund Freud as a persnickety personality - a person is a person who pays such attention to detail that it becomes an obsession and may be an annoyance to others. This is the antithesis of the creative spirit.
Even in real life the air-force does not use the same color "scheme" as the navy or the army, and the army has different uniforms too. So thanks to these requirements we've got to paint model after model after model All. The. Same. Yawn.
Moreover, with my army it's easy to identify exactly which units are which, and to tell which models in a unit are armed with special or heavy weapons. So from what I can see it really is simply being anal for the sake of it.
I think they make an exception for fluff, such as Librarians being in blue or Apothecaries in white, as long as your paint scheme is consistent.
But I agree. The rules now place the burden on you to make sure your opponent can distinguish between your rules. And since this is a requirement, your opponent can ask a TO to take your models that don't comply off the table, so this is actually a radical shift. For you, the only safe choice in a tourney might be to declare a single faction, as recommended above. Which sucks because I feel these rules were written for Marines (just like "if it fits, it sits"), and we all just have to suffer for it.
Niiru wrote: So I've heard a few bad points about ruststalkers lately, are they as bad as people are saying? What about infiltrators?
Edit: Also, which of the priests are the favorite choice these days?
Ruststalkers might be okay in areas where Hoplites are banned, actually. But yes, generally speaking, they are bad.
Fulgurites are the favorite. They went down to an amazingly cheap 14 points. Load them into transports, kill some unit to get the 3++/5+++, and either charge something and force them to fall back or just hunker down on an objective with Acquisition.
Suzuteo wrote: So I thought about it, and I just realized that I can use a Greyfax instead of Assassins. Same point cost, and it pretty much covers both Culexus and Vindicare in the Chaos matchup.
Assassins have flexible deployment though and the ability to just pick one on the fly is SUPER beneficial.
Though I guess not having to pick between them and instead getting both is even more beneficial? If only against Chaos then meh, though. Still, saves 2CP on top of that.
You get both on a model that had no flexible deployment, would have to steal a transport for you to get anywhere, and most importantly isn't all that deadly.
It isn't like it's that hard to get CP either with this army.
Pomguo wrote:Suzuteo often brings 10 man squads in 12-capacity drills though, so probably no issue with deployment or space.
Greyfax is valuable in and of herself though. She makes disengaging from Fulgurites extremely difficult and shuts down enemy melee really hard. She also has two solid denies. In shooting matchups such as Tau, she can stop OW; shutting down a Riptide from being able to OW is huge.
Correct. I prefer the versatility that comes with choosing if I want to Deep Strike or not. (I was about to say Infiltrate, but I guess I don't do that anymore with an all-Mars list.)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/09 10:09:34
2019/12/09 10:23:54
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
*edit: After the event I have to admit the Ascertainment spell seems to be handy to trap something in combat with Fulgurites, and not die in the process. T3 are really susceptible to the bolters spam, even with a decent inv and FnP. The 12" cast is hard to setup though, and T3 on Greyfax doesn't help - she does take a lot of damage if she gets hit in shooting or combat. This time FW was allowed despite it being an ETC event, hence I could ride her in the Drill. Normally I'd have to give up a slot in Dunerider, and force the enemy to shoot with Mortis rounds every time (only 1 damage each wound).
I am meditating whether Greyfax should be swapped to the generic Ordo Hereticus character with a -1 to wound roll relic for that reason. It would help a bit to keep the Inquisitor alive long enough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/09 16:51:10
GW have been using these painting restrictions at WHW for a LONG time. It's not that much of a stretch if you ask me. Essentially the philosophy is (for example) if you have 1 unit of Rangers from one Forgeworld and 1 unit from another both have to be consistently modelled to be recognisable as (your) Rangers and you have to be able to tell which unit is from which Forgeworld consistent with the rest of your army.
If you've been painting all your Rangers exactly the same colour and claiming they're from different Forgeoworlds, then technically you've been low-key screwing people over by not designating your forces clearly.
That's not to say that all Mars have to be red, though if you say they are Mars Forgeworld they DO have to be red, otherwise they are the equivalent of a successors Forgeworld of Mars. That's easy you just come up with you're own Forgeworld name and claim they are a Mars successor, same as space marines and any other army.
Personally I hate all the multi-Forgeworld shenanigans. And that goes for any army doing it. Two Forgeworlds helping each other out in separate detachments, yeah feasible, believable. Go for it. Several Forgeworlds present in one location for one battle or detachments of mixed crap where no-one knows who or what you are; Can't stand it. Would never happen unless the fate of the imperium were at stake. And even then some of them would rather let the Imperium burn.
But that's the crap we have to put up with while all these restrictions on army construction for CP and strategm usage exist. Doesn't stop me disliking it.
2019/12/09 14:56:18
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Octovol wrote: GW have been using these painting restrictions at WHW for a LONG time. It's not that much of a stretch if you ask me. Essentially the philosophy is (for example) if you have 1 unit of Rangers from one Forgeworld and 1 unit from another both have to be consistently modelled to be recognisable as (your) Rangers and you have to be able to tell which unit is from which Forgeworld consistent with the rest of your army.
If you've been painting all your Rangers exactly the same colour and claiming they're from different Forgeoworlds, then technically you've been low-key screwing people over by not designating your forces clearly.
That's not to say that all Mars have to be red, though if you say they are Mars Forgeworld they DO have to be red, otherwise they are the equivalent of a successors Forgeworld of Mars. That's easy you just come up with you're own Forgeworld name and claim they are a Mars successor, same as space marines and any other army.
Personally I hate all the multi-Forgeworld shenanigans. And that goes for any army doing it. Two Forgeworlds helping each other out in separate detachments, yeah feasible, believable. Go for it. Several Forgeworlds present in one location for one battle or detachments of mixed crap where no-one knows who or what you are; Can't stand it. Would never happen unless the fate of the imperium were at stake. And even then some of them would rather let the Imperium burn.
But that's the crap we have to put up with while all these restrictions on army construction for CP and strategm usage exist. Doesn't stop me disliking it.
alright, i play mars and lucius with the official schemes, please tell me the difference on the tabletop.
2019/12/09 17:33:51
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Araablane wrote: My local gaming club is starting a escalation league (starts at 500pts), im thinking about starting with this list.
Never played Admech before so need advice before i start building.
alright, i play mars and lucius with the official schemes, please tell me the difference on the tabletop.
I'm not sure what you want me to say. I know you know the differences, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make otherwise.
They're different and should be painted differently to show it. That's the crux of the matter.
im trying to make the point that unless you know what t he differences between some factions are, it wont be obvious at first glance, making the whole goal of the rule useless.
Lets take tau for example, the color of their armors can be anything for any sept, its the small markings that make the difference between them. So lets say that i make myself a tau list but painted different roles different colors (flyers blue, pathfinders with camo pattern, ghostkeel/stealth suits with various "coming out of camo" effects) it would make sense lore-wise, but a TO might rule against it because they have different colors.
Honestly i feel like forcing any painting rules is a huge gatekeeping move. If i use rubberbands or base clips to differentiate between my subfactions, i shouldnt be penalised for any aspect of the paint. If i want paint to matter, i'd join a painting tournament.
2019/12/09 19:41:12
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
anybody else annoyed that the CA19 book has dataslates in it but they didnt include the dataslates for ALL of our out of codex releases?
Dr. D isnt listed in the points but he probably popped up late enough to not be included, But i dont see the manip or skorpius/dunerider dataslates so still gotta carry around loose papers
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/12/09 20:18:50
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: anybody else annoyed that the CA19 book has dataslates in it but they didnt include the dataslates for ALL of our out of codex releases?
Dr. D isnt listed in the points but he probably popped up late enough to not be included, But i dont see the manip or skorpius/dunerider dataslates so still gotta carry around loose papers
Dr. D is listed with all Blackstone releases, at the very end of the points part.
dadamowsky wrote: *edit: After the event I have to admit the Ascertainment spell seems to be handy to trap something in combat with Fulgurites, and not die in the process. T3 are really susceptible to the bolters spam, even with a decent inv and FnP. The 12" cast is hard to setup though, and T3 on Greyfax doesn't help - she does take a lot of damage if she gets hit in shooting or combat. This time FW was allowed despite it being an ETC event, hence I could ride her in the Drill. Normally I'd have to give up a slot in Dunerider, and force the enemy to shoot with Mortis rounds every time (only 1 damage each wound).
I am meditating whether Greyfax should be swapped to the generic Ordo Hereticus character with a -1 to wound roll relic for that reason. It would help a bit to keep the Inquisitor alive long enough.
I will probably take Terrify a lot more, I think. Depends a lot on terrain. If they do the whole double-L setup in the midboard, I don't need it as much. I would definitely use Ascertainment to shut down Deathstar-type melee threats like Warlock Conclaves, Possessed, etc. though.
I imagine that I would be using Greyfax to trap things that specialize in shooting. It is hilarious how you can disembark 3" then do a 6" Heroic Intervention. Also, I believe you can command reroll the No Escape; it says it's your dice, not the opponent's; so 75% chance to stop something like a Riptide or Executioner from falling back.
Only real downside is that if I decide to do this monofaction thing, I cannot shove things into their face right off the bat anymore. Sigh.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In any case, let's discuss the alternatives to Greyfax. What do you guys think is the best setup for a generic Inquisitor? I am going to assume Ordo Xenos for the 5+ CP recycling and Terrify?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/09 21:56:25
2019/12/09 23:10:33
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
In any case, let's discuss the alternatives to Greyfax. What do you guys think is the best setup for a generic Inquisitor? I am going to assume Ordo Xenos for the 5+ CP recycling and Terrify?
That is my plan, Xenos with 5+ CP recycle, Bio-corrosive poisons & Force Sword, either a plasma pistol or a storm bolter, and Terrify.
Seemed to work quite nicely, the CP regen was really useful and the Poisoned force sword went through CSM rather nicely.
funnily enough that same game the opponents warlord was close to my lines (chaos/emp. children) and I managed to get my Inquisitor within 3" of him, I shot him with a couple of Arquebus, which dropped to one wound then finished off with my vindicare. so I coupld play the vindicare strat that gained CP for killing the warlord (net gain of +2 CP) followed by the Inquisitorial "Take for Interrogation" strat (spend a CP to gain back D3 when character is killed within 3" of Ordo unit) (I rolled a 6 here so again another net gain of 2CP)...
Spoiler:
EDIT: After CA 2019 this list was spot on 1750...[u]
Oh. Hm... probably the better choice for me if I want to trade Ascertainment and an extra deny for Castigation, Agents on the last CP, and a better body.
I dunno. I really like the combat support that Greyfax provides, even if she's squishy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/10 12:22:06
2019/12/10 14:28:02
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
How do you guys play against Knight heavy lists with mechanised lists?
I see normally it is to shoot with a lot of anti elite shots and stubbers etc for hordes and tie up everything you cant kill in melee with transports.
How do you deal with knights?
Is screening and blocking with duneriders enough?
Or do you go with your drills into melee with them, which seems to be the only real anti tank weaponry, with the help of plasma.
2019/12/10 14:45:44
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
0XFallen wrote: How do you guys play against Knight heavy lists with mechanised lists?
I see normally it is to shoot with a lot of anti elite shots and stubbers etc for hordes and tie up everything you cant kill in melee with transports.
How do you deal with knights?
Is screening and blocking with duneriders enough?
Or do you go with your drills into melee with them, which seems to be the only real anti tank weaponry, with the help of plasma.
against mono-knights, just camp objective and win while he tables you.
against imperium + knights then you kill their troops and proceed to be tabled.
and by tabled i mean "lose a lot of models yet stay alive because admech are really resilient"
2019/12/10 14:53:23
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
On the topic of vs knights since T8 and all, whats more important for Dragoons if they face a T8 target?
+1 Str so they wound on 3s or Reroll hit rolls of 1's so they get more exploding 4+'s
Dragoons i know arent exactly a smart move to have charge knights (crusader maybe since it doesnt have a 6D melee attack) but they can easily put the hurt on to finish one off. Just randomly tossing dice against one i was doing minimum 12 damage to a knight with +1 str with 4 dragoons (idealistic i know but still)
edit: And is it just me, or is there yet ANOTHER rumormill that feels shockingly admech inspired?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/10 14:58:45
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/12/10 14:54:06
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
In any case, let's discuss the alternatives to Greyfax. What do you guys think is the best setup for a generic Inquisitor? I am going to assume Ordo Xenos for the 5+ CP recycling and Terrify?
Xenos for 5+ CP recycling andBlackshroud is the most obvious choice. Cheap Ld bubble with additional CPs hiding in the Kataphrons spam
Vineheart01 wrote: On the topic of vs knights since T8 and all, whats more important for Dragoons if they face a T8 target?
+1 Str so they wound on 3s
or Reroll hit rolls of 1's so they get more exploding 4+'s
Dragoons i know arent exactly a smart move to have charge knights (crusader maybe since it doesnt have a 6D melee attack) but they can easily put the hurt on to finish one off. Just randomly tossing dice against one i was doing minimum 12 damage to a knight with +1 str with 4 dragoons (idealistic i know but still)
edit: And is it just me, or is there yet ANOTHER rumormill that feels shockingly admech inspired?
It's about the same or rather close.. if you calculate with 5 attacks per dragon its a difference iof about 0.3 for the Strength buff.
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2019/12/10 22:47:35
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I just noticed Dragoons are the only models i own that actually want that +1Str so i was curious. Doesnt have an impact on anything else that i feel wouldnt immediately die in melee anyway (rangers/vanguard).
The 6D melee in return if they didnt kill the knight though would keep me from relying on dragoons to deal with them. Thats each hit = dead goon...no thanks lol.
Course the only knight i ever face is a mono-knight player that...kinda doesnt know the rules that well and more plays knights because BIG ROBOTS than anything else. So odds of me actually having to deal with one thats a legit threat is low.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/12/10 23:35:24
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I always do +1S. RR1 for something that is hitting on 2+ is very minor compared to wounding on 3+ rather than 4+. Also need to consider that this comes with exploding hits, which increase the considerations for better wounding. EDIT: Crunched the numbers and find that 6 Dragoons do 20 wounds with +1S to 17.5 when you have RR1.
Also, an Enginseer or Manipulus can carry Mask and give your Dragoons rerolls anyway.
+1S is pretty important for Vanguard in a matchup against something like Guard.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/11 01:13:24
2019/12/11 02:09:54
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Oh yes. I was just telling my friend who is prepping for a tourney next week that the Manipulus he is bringing for his Dragoons are probably only going to be able to provide a charge bonus for one turn at best. They can keep up for move bonuses a bit longer, especially if there is terrain that the Manipulus can walk through.
2019/12/11 09:38:57
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
All he really needs to do is to deploy Manipulus more-less in the same position the first Dragoons will go. Manipulus with Advance and 6" auras should keep up after Dragoons, epecially with their huge oval bases (allowing them to fight in two rows 10" from the actual target)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
