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 Kanluwen wrote:
Lil' birdy that gave me the numbers said Skitarii or Secutarii only.

Inquisitors ignore transport requirements-at least, FACTION ones.

So they can probably ride.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Lil' birdy that gave me the numbers said Skitarii or Secutarii only.

Interesting, so that would override the "Authority of the Inquisition" rule the same way that the "scouts only" rule for the landspeeder storm does? A bit disappointing if that's the case but still cool that it can transport infantry at all.

It totally depends on the precise wording. For example, drop pods say "10 chapter infantry" then have a list of infantry that CAN'T go in it (terminators, primaris, jump pack, centurion etc). So inquisitor units can use them because the wording is generally permissive with exceptions.

On the other hand, the land speeder says "chapter scouts only," and so the authority of the inquisition rule only knocks out "chapter," leaving "scouts," so you're out of luck.

So if it says: "12 <forge world> infantry models. Kataphrons cannot board" you can still use it for inquisitor units, but if it says "12 <forge world> secutarii or skitarii" they can't.

Every other mechanicus transport is worded permissively with exceptions rather than specifically, so I don't know why these would be any different. I expect you can put your inquisitor in one if you really want...though honestly I can't see a lot of circumstances where you would want to.

Interesting. If it's 10+ and the points cost is right, that definitely saves me buying so many Scorpius lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's a cool interview on voxcast with Jed Goodwin and Daz Latham about the admech range.

Octovol wrote:
Interesting. If it's 10+ and the points cost is right, that definitely saves me buying so many Scorpius lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's a cool interview on voxcast with Jed Goodwin and Daz Latham about the admech range.

Is that episode one? or is there another one?

Watching ep1 now now that you have mentioned it.

Never mind just saw the lastest episode in my feed haha.

Agamembar wrote:

Octovol wrote:
Interesting. If it's 10+ and the points cost is right, that definitely saves me buying so many Scorpius lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's a cool interview on voxcast with Jed Goodwin and Daz Latham about the admech range.

Is that episode one? or is there another one?

Watching ep1 now now that you have mentioned it.

Never mind just saw the lastest episode in my feed haha.

Yeah sorry, episode 35 for anyone else wondering

If the gunship can transport 6 and the flyer 12, that is crazy good. I might do two flyers with 12x Fulgurites in them. Or 6x Skitarii units with 2x Plasma Caliver.

what would we even do with a transport of 6?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
what would we even do with a transport of 6?

5 man unit and a character...if we get one.

It’s the waiting that’s the worst bit.

Somewhere in an empty warehouse in Nottingham is the answer to all our questions.

A deft speedy cat burglar with an eye on the clock could just sneak in and reveal all the goodness whilst maintaining correct social distancing procedures.

And adhering to the hour of exercise cap. If such a Robin Hood exists go forth and reveal the goodness!

Honestly, the most frustrating bit for me is this:

We’ll be taking a closer look at these new units and their rules soon – make sure that you’re signed up to our newsletter so that you don’t miss out on any of the latest updates. In the meantime, join us over on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page to let us know which unit you’re looking forward to most.

That was on March 30th. It's at the bottom of the Engine War: Requisition Approved article. It seems likely that nobody noticed it was there as the articles are automated to a certain extent.

For whatever reason though, they cut the articles for the week that would have been associated with the preorder.

I know PA will change things but who knows when we will get that for sure. So I was wondering if anyone has had any success with punch robots? I’ve tried 4 dakkabots before and I wasn’t happy with them so I thought about maybe trying them as the combat variant. I run my admech as allies to my knights usually

theyre horrid. Dont even bother with punchybots.

A mere 10pt difference turns them from almost useless to insane damage output.

Better than ruststalkers but....thats hardly a compliment lol

Drdotts wrote:
I know PA will change things but who knows when we will get that for sure. So I was wondering if anyone has had any success withpunch robots? I’ve tried 4 dakkabots before and I wasn’t happy with them so I thought about maybe trying them as the combat variant. I run my admech as allies to my knights usually

They’re not great but they do have a nice charge-from-deepstrike gimmick as Lucius. Run in a Cybernetics Cohort detachment with a Datasmith with the detachment relic for +3 to charge range and put them in the teleportarium. Use Binharic Override to change them to fighting twice protocols. Not competitive or reliable but they killed a Lord of Skulls in one round for me like this. Very amusing!

Punchbots are substantially overcosted, and they'd be especially terrible in a knights list since a lack of hard-hitting close combat is not really one of your problems.

The fist version should give two additional attacks base, one for each fist. That'd make them very good at smashing hard targets with the protocols, with 10 STR 10 3 damage attacks each.

The other option would be giving them a sweep option base on the fists (say 3 hit rolls per attack at STR +1 -2AP 1 damage). Then they'd be reasonably good at hitting a range of targets. I think this is probably the better option.

They still probably wouldn't be great, but at least they wouldn't be meme-worthy.

Both versions are pretty overcosted if you ask me. My 4 will stay on the shelf until there's a reason to use them. Punch bots have too few attacks for their WS4 and no way of improving it, dakkabots you need to dedicate too much additional support to and babysitting to them to keep them useful.

A Distintigrator is the same cost as a robot. Aside from the missing invuln the tank offers magnitudes more firepower and utility than one robot.

Ruststalkers meanwhile are point for point our best screen at 5.5 points per wound they have a bunch of chaff clearing attacks and if you;'re lucky you'll convert some to mortals. 20 wounds for 110pts that moves 8" with an invuln.

Robots need more weapon options, but the way the kit is built that's never going to happen because the guns are built into the arms. The fist weapons should be included for free whether you take the guns or not.

The punch bots also need to be faster. Maybe if the double fight protocol also let them charge after advancing they would have a better chance of even getting into combat. As they are, it costs a lot of CP to get 1 unit into combat quickly or they have to walk it for several turns.

I wish the shooty version had better anti tank options. We already have decent anti infantry options and the 1 damage of heavy phosphorus is just so lackluster. If I could give them 3 heavy arc rifles, I would be all over them.

I actually like the idea of letting them take both guns and fists. That would give them a niche in the list, as it'd make them reasonably good both in melee and at shooting, something nothing else really replicates. And would give you more reason to care about shifting protocols.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I actually like the idea of letting them take both guns and fists. That would give them a niche in the list, as it'd make them reasonably good both in melee and at shooting, something nothing else really replicates. And would give you more reason to care about shifting protocols.

All marine dreadnaughts get at least a dreadnaught combat weapon which is the same ap -3 and 3 dmg but x2 str as well as a storm bolter built-in standard.

A venerable dreadnaught for 129pts has an assault cannon, and aforementioned combat weapon and storm bolter, which it can fire at rapidfire at full range whilst moving and also gets the marine shock assault and angels of death benefits. it's 8 wounds and t7 hits on 2+ in combat and at range and has a 3+ save and a 6+++. For 8pts more you can take a twin lascannon instead of the assault cannon. Did I mention they hit on 2+? Oh and they get one more close combat attack. That hit's on 2s.

Kastellans in both forms are laughable compared to the competition, the only saving grace they have is that if you take them in a large enough group wrath of mars becomes useful for them. But our whole strategy for doing anything meaningful is "Take X unit in a massive squad size and use X strategm on them" to make them worthwhile taking. Without the strategms most of these units are average at best. Except priests, they're the other end of the spectrum, way too cheap and way too good lol. Robots need to have the fists built-in and the downsides to the shooting and fighting protocols removed. That makes up for the abysmal BS/WS they have and the lack of firepower.

Or maybe add the rules they removed from phosphor weapons back on, gives them some utility back other than being 'just another gun' we have lots of guns we need some variety and depth in our choices. Or some actual choices lol

Octovol wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I actually like the idea of letting them take both guns and fists. That would give them a niche in the list, as it'd make them reasonably good both in melee and at shooting, something nothing else really replicates. And would give you more reason to care about shifting protocols.

All marine dreadnaughts get at least a dreadnaught combat weapon which is the same ap -3 and 3 dmg but x2 str as well as a storm bolter built-in standard.

A venerable dreadnaught for 129pts has an assault cannon, and aforementioned combat weapon and storm bolter, which it can fire at rapidfire at full range whilst moving and also gets the marine shock assault and angels of death benefits. it's 8 wounds and t7 hits on 2+ in combat and at range and has a 3+ save and a 6+++. For 8pts more you can take a twin lascannon instead of the assault cannon. Did I mention they hit on 2+? Oh and they get one more close combat attack. That hit's on 2s.

Kastellans in both forms are laughable compared to the competition, the only saving grace they have is that if you take them in a large enough group wrath of mars becomes useful for them. But our whole strategy for doing anything meaningful is "Take X unit in a massive squad size and use X strategm on them" to make them worthwhile taking. Without the strategms most of these units are average at best. Except priests, they're the other end of the spectrum, way too cheap and way too good lol. Robots need to have the fists built-in and the downsides to the shooting and fighting protocols removed. That makes up for the abysmal BS/WS they have and the lack of firepower.

Or maybe add the rules they removed from phosphor weapons back on, gives them some utility back other than being 'just another gun' we have lots of guns we need some variety and depth in our choices. Or some actual choices lol

The better comparison, since Kastellans have to be taken in minimum unit sizes of 2, is the regular dreadnought. They both come out to 220/200pts (shooty vs punchy, respectively) and 208pts for two dreadnoughts with assault cannons, CCW, and a storm bolter.

Bots do have protocols which makes it a bit tough to compare them to other things, the 5++ vs shooting, though the protocol swap without the Stratagem is quite garbage, requiring not only a dedicated character but ALSO a freaking dice roll. Just lol.
The robots have an 8" move vs the 6" of the dreadnoughts. But the robots have to stay in cohesion while the dreadnoughts can do their own thing.
Robots have a total of 6 attacks base while the dreadnoughts have 8 attacks base, ignoring Shock Assault. Punchy bots are at S10 while dreadnoughts are S12.
WS and BS for bots are 4+ while dreads are 3+ and both suffer move and shoot penalties for heavy weapons, except for the Dreads on T1.
The last real difference is in wounds where the bots have a total of 12 and 2 dreadnoughts add up to 16.

It is a shame the bots are shoehorned into being stationary turrets or they're a handicap to take. They're not very fun since they are so one dimensional. But if they were to get buffed it would have to be very well done or, in my opinion, become crazy good.

Honestly, I love the idea of changing up their weapon loadouts. If I could give them weapons that were still good WITHOUT the handicap of having to remain stationary or being forced to put them into double fire mode, I'd consider them. Arc, Heavy Arc Rifles, Torsion Cannons, etc, could all be fun. Arc Rifles in their hands + fists and then a heavy weapon on the carapace mount would be really fun, I think! At least to allow us to change something up from one game to the next.

EDIT: Now the more I'm thinking about it, if they had small arms weapons in their palms AND the fists and a heavy weapon on their shoulder, I'd probably be happy with them as a tough unit to kind of babysit our backline as opposed to the unit that requires the most babysitting. Think of the versatility.

Honestly, the protocols are just a bad mechanic that make them really difficult to balance. I am sympathetic to the idea that it's something fun and different...but it doesn't lend itself to a well-balanced game. Especially with the protocols as strong as they are. If they only gave you say +1 to hit from shooting or in CC or something like that it'd be one thing, but doubling shots/attacks is a very difficult mechanic to balance.

If they did not require stratagems in order to move and fire without penalty, I'd be ok with protocols adding +1BS and +1WS. But they would definitely NOT be worth their points if they could only move and fire 9 S6 AP-2 1D shots at BS3+. That would be a joke for 110pts. The same with the punchy bois, 100pts for 3 attacks at S10 AP-3 3Dmg that hit on a 3+? I guess they are just stuck in this binary path where they are all or nothing. They'd need a complete redesign.

Well sure, that's the whole point. If you made the the protocols less overwhelmingly powerful, then you could rejig the bots' stats to actually be something other than totally terrible unless you have the right protocol active.

The problem with abilities that double effectiveness is there is no way to make the unit anything but horrible when they aren't active and keep it balanced. You end up balancing for the right protocol being active at all times, which defeats the whole purpose of the mechanic, except to add dependency to the unit for no real gain.

But what I said was they wouldn't be worth their points. So they'd have to drop significantly in points, I'd guess. Maybe like 85 points?

What I was saying is that if you toned down the protocols you could then totally redesign their statline to be an effective unit without being 100% reliant on the right protocol being active. You could drop the points, you could improve the stats/weapons/etc, or you could do both. Right now the unit is crippled by the fact it has protocols that make it double as effective. So it has to be terrible without the protocols, because otherwise it'll be too powerful with them engaged. Tone down the protocols and you can afford to buff up the base stats significantly and end up with a unit that's actually usable and not a dumb gimmick in a box.

Dakkabots are ridiculously strong still. It's just that Space Marines are even more OP now, so we have to spam Boats to make every round in a game of objective secured whack-a-mole. =\

Dakkabots are only strong when you spend most of your armies points supporting them, take them in the right Forgweworld and use a strategy on them. Without all those stars aligning they're extremely average. It's very restrictive and shallow. At the moment without the support and cp they're considerably worse choices than our other heavy slots.

What i'd like to see from them:

Protocols:
BS+1 + double shots if remained stationary or moved less than half movement for shoot mode -1WS
WS+1 and +1A for punchy mode -1BS
+1 save for aegis as now

No other negatives

Option to take one fist for free and a ranged weapon or two ranged weapons and no fist or two fists for +1 attack for a points cost.
I'd love more ranged weapon options but the logistics of this are problematic without a new miniature :|

Protocol changing should just be an ability the data smith has and it changes immediately, none of this next turn bullcrap. I was considering starting a Grey Knights army and their tides mechanic works like the robots except it's instant, you cast your power and the tide changes instantly. So you can fire off all your 2MW smites then switch to another tide so the rest of your army can benefit from other tides for the remainder of the turn. The downsides are that whatever protocol you leave them in is active for your opponents turn so you have to balance the importance of whatever tide you have up and when.

The current strategm to change protocol should remain, but should only be possible with a datasmith within range and not lock them into one of them. That way if you have the CP you can have your datasmith switch to shooty end of movement, shoot and pay your CP to switch to fight for fight phases. That's called tactical flexibility

Oh and the Dunecrawler needs the whole move half distance fire twice thing to make its lacking weapon loadouts more valuable.

All this is stuff that exists elsewhere, nothing radical. I just solve 3 units problems right there

fortunately for me dakkabots are fairly powerful because nobody here is tournament level good, their presence alone does work lol.
Yeah i know kind of a moot point but its still funny to me that my opponents are so terrified of them when they usually dont do all that much vs their cost. I try to get Dr.D to +1 their BS but the 24" range usually means only chaff is in range, or something i dont want them shooting (Magnus for one)

Dakkabots are great in casual games on boards without much LOS-blocking stuff or against players who don't really put enough attention into the movement phase. Other than that, I think they're probably on the edge of being viable run as Mars with full rerolls from Cawl and the strat.

Dakkabots were strong even in tournaments as long as there aren't NOVA L's. But the addition of Skorpius and the new SM supplements making it easy to paste T6 vehicles signal that we have to evolve.