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Yeah that's one of our strengths: having so many vehicles the opponent must pick priorities, because some of these are going to reach their goal.

I don't follow you with the Icarus giving itself the debuff, it's still 4+ to Hit any ground targets.

in fact,the icarus is even more tasty now that the -1 is capped and doesnt care where the source is from.

Fire it at stuff that already has a -1, and bam no effect (well, stubbers will but big deal)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
in fact,the icarus is even more tasty now that the -1 is capped and doesnt care where the source is from.

Fire it at stuff that already has a -1, and bam no effect (well, stubbers will but big deal)

I think this applies to our cognis weapons after advancing as well. The rule says its a -2 penalty. But it can only be -1 now. Also makes the rage against the machines and protector work the same for an advancing ironstrider.


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Also how in the hell is a storm bolter still only 2 points on a termite drill yet a heavy stubber is 5pts? They want me to believe that at 24" 5 shots from storm bolters (2 and a half storm bolters for 5pts) is the same as 3 shots at 36" from a stubber and at 12" 10 shots is still the same as those 3 heavy stubber shots? They've lost their minds on this one lol

Imagine if all our vehicles had storm bolters instead how much better and cheaper they'd be :|


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Actually maybe these werent there before and the points are still adjusted in the field manual... there were datasheets uploaded for the drill, peltasts and hoplites on the 16th, I couldn't see any changes to them so assumed they'd just updated the points. But maybe these documents weren't there before? Anyone else know that or can see if anything else changed?

Yes. All modifiers are capped, including Cognis weapons.

I think the drills for 130 with flamers are pretty cheeky. Definitely going to be fielding mine

The regular transport points hike makes them feel worth it

 Ideasweasel wrote:
I think the drills for 130 with flamers are pretty cheeky. Definitely going to be fielding mine

The regular transport points hike makes them feel worth it

I believe its melta weapon is blast too? Overall seems like a steal in comparison to the dunerider now. For just 30 points you lose canticles, cognisstubbers and 2 wounds for 2T, the Drill, D3 multimelta, 2 heavy flamers and extra transport capacity

My thinking is that I don't want to invest 30 points to improve my transport's shooting or fighting. Instead, I want to invest in making my firebase a better firebase, and keep my transports as cheap, fast, and useful as possible for an objectives-focused mission. (30 points is not cheap either. I can have 4 Boats or 3 Drills. I prefer 4 Boats.)

Anyhow, you lose 4" Move and the ability to advance and shoot when you switch to Drills. Remember that Heavy Flamers are not Assault, and with capped modifiers, Cognis just converts a Heavy weapon into an Assault weapon.

Furthermore, while the melta and drill are cool when they get in range, the problem is that they have to get in range. Your opponent can totally ignore your Drills in the first round. And once you are at the objective, you cannot park it; the Drill has to get close to do anything. The Boats, on the other hand, are outputting 12x S5 shots their entire way up to board and while parked on the objective.

The best parallel is that it is like the difference between shooty and choppy Scouts in Marine lists.

The datasheets from the 16th show the drill as 130pts base, 2pts for each storm bolter, 8 for each volkite charger and 17pts each for the heavy flamers. So unless all those weapons now have a zero cost and I missed it...?

Heavy Flamers were zero in the spoiler, weren't they?

 Suzuteo wrote:
Heavy Flamers were zero in the spoiler, weren't they?

I've not seen the spoiler but these datasheets for Peltasts, Hoplites and the Drill were uploaded on the 16th. I dont recall if they're just newly uploaded or if they replaced existing ones though: https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/

I find it hard to believe heavy flamers would be listed as zero points and the base vehicle cost stay the same 130pts though. If they were normalising the wargear costs for it, the base would go up and the weapons would come down. Is a storm bolter still 2pts in the marine leaks? Volkite chargers dont exist anywhere else I dont think but 17pts for a heavy flamer seems high given an incendine combustor is 15pts. So those datasheets might just be copies of the old ones, but if so, why upload them now with old points when CA is due out this weekend.

Octovol wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
Heavy Flamers were zero in the spoiler, weren't they?

I've not seen the spoiler but these datasheets for Peltasts, Hoplites and the Drill were uploaded on the 16th. I dont recall if they're just newly uploaded or if they replaced existing ones though: https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/

I find it hard to believe heavy flamers would be listed as zero points and the base vehicle cost stay the same 130pts though. If they were normalising the wargear costs for it, the base would go up and the weapons would come down. Is a storm bolter still 2pts in the marine leaks? Volkite chargers dont exist anywhere else I dont think but 17pts for a heavy flamer seems high given an incendine combustor is 15pts. So those datasheets might just be copies of the old ones, but if so, why upload them now with old points when CA is due out this weekend.

Those are the 8th edition points. They also uploaded new copies of the Hoplites and Peltasts without updating the points.
Striking Scorpions YouTube video where he read off the Forge World 9th edition points stated Heavy Flamer as zero, but I haven’t seen any actual pictures leaked of the points. It could just be an error when he read off the points, Or it could be an error by GW. it does seem unusual that the heavy flamer cost would be built in, but GW has done odder things (like putting an Imperial Knight Castellan at 620 points and and Chaos Knight Castellan at 730 points).

Mariongodspeed wrote:

Octovol wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
Heavy Flamers were zero in the spoiler, weren't they?

I've not seen the spoiler but these datasheets for Peltasts, Hoplites and the Drill were uploaded on the 16th. I dont recall if they're just newly uploaded or if they replaced existing ones though: https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/

I find it hard to believe heavy flamers would be listed as zero points and the base vehicle cost stay the same 130pts though. If they were normalising the wargear costs for it, the base would go up and the weapons would come down. Is a storm bolter still 2pts in the marine leaks? Volkite chargers dont exist anywhere else I dont think but 17pts for a heavy flamer seems high given an incendine combustor is 15pts. So those datasheets might just be copies of the old ones, but if so, why upload them now with old points when CA is due out this weekend.

Those are the 8th edition points. They also uploaded new copies of the Hoplites and Peltasts without updating the points.
Striking Scorpions YouTube video where he read off the Forge World 9th edition points stated Heavy Flamer as zero, but I haven’t seen any actual pictures leaked of the points. It could just be an error when he read off the points, Or it could be an error by GW. it does seem unusual that the heavy flamer cost would be built in, but GW has done odder things (like putting an Imperial Knight Castellan at 620 points and and Chaos Knight Castellan at 730 points).

Wargear costs being zero is normally only when it's the default or if its the only option. If all 3 options were considered equal but with a tactical choice then I could see them being zero. but there's no way heavy flamers are equivalent to storm bolters and volkite chargers. Maybe they are...but then you'd expect the base drill cost to go up just like every other vehicle/model, not stay the same lol.

It could also be something as simple as GW pricing the Heavy Flamer at zero points for the knight crusader and forgetting it’s an option on the Drill. It’s not like they’ve never made that kind of mistake before (Looking at you zero point heavy phosphor blasters in Engine War and 65 point Dakkabots).

Mariongodspeed wrote:
It could also be something as simple as GW pricing the Heavy Flamer at zero points for the knight crusader and forgetting it’s an option on the Drill. It’s not like they’ve never made that kind of mistake before (Looking at you zero point heavy phosphor blasters in Engine War and 65 point Dakkabots).

Yeah I mean I don't doubt that that's a possibility, but for a heavy flamer? It's not exactly a super-niche weapon only a few units have, it's all over the place! Well, It won't be long I guess until someone properly has the book and can see the points.

I'm hoping GW gives me a better reason than "here's a list building tool" to sub to the app during this week's previews so I can decide where/how/if I'm buying the CA books. I'm pessimistic at best, but still, there's every chance they're holding out on us to stir up hype about it, (no such thing as bad publicity so to speak) only to release info on a cool feature that makes people forget what they're paying for. Apple does it all the time, there were a bunch of things missing and wrong with the earlier iPhones but there were also a handful of REALLY well-polished features that really shone, everyone forgets about the little things if there are a couple of really stonking things in there.

Again. Pessimistic, but hopeful lol.

I'm anxiously waiting to see what happens the first time GW's app doesn't agree with their codexes or the latest chapter approved (inevitably there will be some niche cases with weapons availability or pricing) to see what takes precedence.

Same with volkite weapons. With the Dominus', the new variant and the Drills variant having similar but different effects. 2/3 do D2, 2/3 do mortal wounds

Keeping this in mind, I have no idea why the Belleros Energy Mortar is 20 points. Should be 0 and the Ferrumite Cannon 5 points.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Keeping this in mind, I have no idea why the Belleros Energy Mortar is 20 points. Should be 0 and the Ferrumite Cannon 5 points.

I see your reasoning but I wonder why the Ferrumite isn't cheaper than the Belleros actually. It's NEVER taken as a weapon option and costs more, it's the Kastelan Fists syndrome again. And it might be a worthy weapon against Eradicators and other 3W units we see in game now.

The newest addition to my leadership team:



Basically swapped in an Infiltrator head and connected it to the beard with some broken off Skitarii bits (ugh) and green stuff.

Paint is still fresh; needs to get a matte coat to get the plastic look off. But he's my favorite Enginseer by a long shot now.

 Aaranis wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
Keeping this in mind, I have no idea why the Belleros Energy Mortar is 20 points. Should be 0 and the Ferrumite Cannon 5 points.

I see your reasoning but I wonder why the Ferrumite isn't cheaper than the Belleros actually. It's NEVER taken as a weapon option and costs more, it's the Kastelan Fists syndrome again. And it might be a worthy weapon against Eradicators and other 3W units we see in game now.

To be honest, it's actually a very, very good gun. When I pointed out to my friend that it was more much more point efficient than a Caladius (back when it was ridiculously OP), he was astounded; the only downside is that it did not have Fly.

Now that it's S9, it's even stronger. Ferrumite Grators beat Neutron Crawlers for anti-tank hands down. (Assuming that it comes down to 135 points, anyway.) The problem is that it competes with non-LOS shooting, which is just so much more valuable for us because we already have a bunch of amazing LOS shooting choices. Plus, there's also Autocannon Ballistarii at S8 with +1 to wound against a non-Titan target.


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UGHHH... my wallet cannot take any more.

Let’s hope that pistol belongs to a Skitarii HQ!

It's a bit large to be a pistol, don't ya think?

Feels odd to be seeing this so soon after a large AM release so I am thinking an AM character for some sort of specialist game is likely, a la Combat Arena, Blackstone Fortress, etc

Madjob wrote:
Feels odd to be seeing this so soon after a large AM release so I am thinking an AM character for some sort of specialist game is likely, a la Combat Arena, Blackstone Fortress, etc

Combat Arena was part of Blackstone Fortress.

Remember though that Engine War and its associated stuff? Not as big as you think. Three new unit 'types'(Serberys cavalry, Pteraxii jump units, the Archaeopter) and 'first time in general, book printed material' for the other items(Skorpius variants and Manipulus).
It also was supposed to be out the first week of April, not May/June like it came out at eventually. The Lumineth book alone tells us how far behind everything is release-wise, as the points for them were "current as of April 2020"...and that just came out a few weeks ago!

There are two Rumor Engines that have an AdMech flair to them.
This Servo-Skull(June 16th) is the other one, while the pistol shown above is the most recent.


Remember as well that we would have been seeing the announcements of a new edition probably the first week of June(which would have been after Pariah was released), with teasers before that. What we're seeing now? Is probably something we'll get with our actual Codex or a box associated with that.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a bit large to be a pistol, don't ya think?

Yeah, looking at in on my computer instead of my phone it looks a lot clearer. The bit I took to be a trigger on the bottom right of the photo is probably not, and the cylindrical piece on the bottom left of the photo I took to be reminiscent of the chamber on a revolver is probably not, so overall the gun is probably larger than a pistol.

Whatever it is, it definitely looks to be Skitarii. The barrel looks to be similar to the Radium Carbine, there's a 'cylinder' that looks similar to the grip underneath of the Carbine, another cylinder that looks similar to a scaled down version of the Arc Rifle's 'coils' or Radium's 'radgooper' in front of the cylinder on the Carbine...maybe it's some kind of shotgun-ish Galvanic/Arc/Radium weapon?


If you look underneath of the glowy arc bits, you'll see what I'm referring to there.

As a sidenote, was this statement always there?

One model can be made into an Alpha, fitted with an enhanced data-tether or an omnispex - the box truly portrays the compulsive data-gathering nature of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

@Kanluwen
I think that line dates back to 7E.

Looks like a relic radium carbine, with just a bit of extra housing to me. The 'revolver cylinder' is even in the right place.

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Kanluwen
I think that line dates back to 7E.

That would be super weird because the Alpha can't take those...at least for Rangers and Vanguard.

You know who can though?
Secutarii.

You're 100% right though. I just looked back and found it in the 2015 product blurbs.

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 Tastyfish wrote:
Looks like a relic radium carbine, with just a bit of extra housing to me. The 'revolver cylinder' is even in the right place.

Ehhh...the cylinder's in the same spot as a Galvanic Rifle or Carbine as well. It's interesting that the revolver cylinder is used for such a big chunk of our gear.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Feels odd to be seeing this so soon after a large AM release so I am thinking an AM character for some sort of specialist game is likely, a la Combat Arena, Blackstone Fortress, etc

Combat Arena was part of Blackstone Fortress.

Remember though that Engine War and its associated stuff? Not as big as you think. Three new unit 'types'(Serberys cavalry, Pteraxii jump units, the Archaeopter) and 'first time in general, book printed material' for the other items(Skorpius variants and Manipulus).
It also was supposed to be out the first week of April, not May/June like it came out at eventually. The Lumineth book alone tells us how far behind everything is release-wise, as the points for them were "current as of April 2020"...and that just came out a few weeks ago!

There are two Rumor Engines that have an AdMech flair to them.
This Servo-Skull(June 16th) is the other one, while the pistol shown above is the most recent.

Spoiler:

Remember as well that we would have been seeing the announcements of a new edition probably the first week of June(which would have been after Pariah was released), with teasers before that. What we're seeing now? Is probably something we'll get with our actual Codex or a box associated with that.

Combat Arena landed before the BSF expansion which repackaged the same models, so they're distinct. I'm splitting hairs, I know, in fact it's likely that Combat Arena is the repack which only landed first because Barnes and Noble made it a part of their deal to carry it first and exclusively - they wouldn't have wanted the BSF expansion taking away sales on the combat arena boxes. That said, yes, I would call this release wave "large", particularly by the established pattern by existing AM releases. The original Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus releases numbered 4 kits each. That's how many we've gotten this time around, too.

Though when I think about it that way, it does possibly make it look like they're splitting the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii waves again? We haven't actually had any new CM models outside of characters like the Manipulus, Dr. D, and his servitor pal. I know I still would really like for a new plastic basic servitor kit, though none of the rumor engines that are obviously Imperial tech seem to point to them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Whatever it is, it definitely looks to be Skitarii. The barrel looks to be similar to the Radium Carbine, there's a 'cylinder' that looks similar to the grip underneath of the Carbine, another cylinder that looks similar to a scaled down version of the Arc Rifle's 'coils' or Radium's 'radgooper' in front of the cylinder on the Carbine...maybe it's some kind of shotgun-ish Galvanic/Arc/Radium weapon?

I wouldn't lock it in as Skitarii just yet, TPDs carry phosphor serpentas which feature the filigree commonly seen on Skitarii weapons, and the coils are also present on their macrostubbers. So there is some established commonality between the sort of weapons a Cult Mechanicus unit could carry and what a Skitarii unit would carry.

That's assuming Combat Arena is a repack and that it wasn't just planned to function that way. Not saying one way or the other, just that it might be they planned it out for both markets at the same time.

Anyways, this release wave wasn't 4 new kits. It was 3(Cavalry, Flyer, Pteraxii) plus a standalone release(Manipulus) that had been available before as part of a Kill-Team set.

You're right that the Dominii have weapons that do have shared elements but it does kinda/sorta look to be a bit heftier than some of the gear we've seen so far for the Techpriests.

Random, wild, fire from the sky speculation...
IF there's anything there for my hunch for some new stuff coming, we might be seeing a sneak peek for whatever the next Indomitus styled 'Battlebox' will be. There's a couple of Death Guard styled pieces(a power fist, the 'wings', the piping coming out of a backplate) from the Rumor Engine and a couple of AdMech ones that we have here...and spoiler, they actually make a mention in our codex of a Death Guard and AdMech fight going on for the planet of Triplex Phall!

We might be seeing a preview for Secutarii(this weapon...we know something's up with the unit type since Duneriders and the Transvector both can transport them now...oh and Transvectors literally cannot transport the current Peltast or Hoplite units which start out at 10 models base), a Skitarii/Secutarii HQ(the Servo-Skull), and then we might see Servitors with some Easy Build Electropriests or something.