primaris leftenant news (and some other stuff...)

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**endlesswaltz123**

Irbis wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

What makes it even funnier (and dumber) is the fact they got stalker bolt rifle option a year before model with it was released, said model being mega-limited-buy-me-now-only-in-GW-stores junk, so unless you happened to grab it during a few hours it was available, the bit does not exist for all intents and purposes...

?

Unless I'm mistaken on what you are talking about, this kit has a primaris captain with stalker bolt rifle.... https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Primaris-Space-Marines-Captain

**Togusa**

BrianDavion wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

Why would a cappy carry a standard bolt gun? I would expect him to have a master crafted specialist bolt gun

I mean a styandard mastercrafted bolt rifle. not the assault or staslker varient.

So it's strictly a rules thing? People want the AP-1?

**Nevelon**

Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

Why would a cappy carry a standard bolt gun? I would expect him to have a master crafted specialist bolt gun

I mean a styandard mastercrafted bolt rifle. not the assault or staslker varient.

So it's strictly a rules thing? People want the AP-1?

The standard rifle is the most flexible. It probably matches the troops he’s leading into battle. It looks cool. The rules crunch is one reason, but there are plenty of fluff and aesthetic reasons as well.

For me, I’d like it so he matches the troops. He’s going to be doing the same things they are, so should be able to shoot in a similar fashion. I actually prefer the looks of the other rifles, but generally like the flexibility of the standard one. Sometimes you need to sit back, sometimes move up. My marines are there for TAC roles, and the rapid fire suits them best. The captain leading them should fit.

YMMV.

**BrianDavion**

Nevelon wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

Why would a cappy carry a standard bolt gun? I would expect him to have a master crafted specialist bolt gun

I mean a styandard mastercrafted bolt rifle. not the assault or staslker varient.

So it's strictly a rules thing? People want the AP-1?

The standard rifle is the most flexible. It probably matches the troops he’s leading into battle. It looks cool. The rules crunch is one reason, but there are plenty of fluff and aesthetic reasons as well.

For me, I’d like it so he matches the troops. He’s going to be doing the same things they are, so should be able to shoot in a similar fashion. I actually prefer the looks of the other rifles, but generally like the flexibility of the standard one. Sometimes you need to sit back, sometimes move up. My marines are there for TAC roles, and the rapid fire suits them best. The captain leading them should fit.

YMMV.

This. that really is the case.

**Danny76**

aka_mythos wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

Why would a cappy carry a standard bolt gun? I would expect him to have a master crafted specialist bolt gun

Because their is a lot of inconsistency in the rarity of these things and their relationship to cost. In the lore weapons of different kinds are rarer than the point values in the game would leave you to believe. Even though a master crafted bolt pistol isn't much more expensive and isn't that significant a step up from a normal bolt pistols a Chapter likely has more Lascannons than master crafted bolt pistols. Consider that at one time in the IG codex there was a page that gave an in universe run down on a typical battalion, 200+ guardsmen and they only had 1 plasma gun, that was considered a relic reserved for the most dire of circumstances. At the same time we're told bolters and by extension storm bolters are rare, but they're common enough to stick on IG tanks and shipping containers... At that level of scarcity there are still more plasma guns and storm bolters in the galaxy than space marines, and they could in theory all be equipped with those weapons. The galaxy is huge and the way astartes bolters are described and venerated there is an argument to be made that their bolters and bolt pistols are all notionally master crafted, and by extension a master-crafter bolter is a master-of-master-crafted weapon.

On the table top what's the difference between the sculpt for a bolt pistol and a master crafted bolt pistol, a couple strokes of gold paint?

Agree with this.
Aside from the points values part at the top.
Points values in game aren’t assigned by lore at all, just by the rules and abilities something has.
I’d say who gets what may be from lore sure, but that’s not points at that point (as in Just because it can have it doesn’t mean it has to).
But then on the table top equally unless they made a rule where Although several profiles can take X weapon, you can only have 1 in the army.
Then it’s just getting too messy.

I don’t think lore and game points can met really.

Point is. More captain and LT models with loadouts the better.

If they aren’t going to give us multi part kits with weapons options anymore. Then they need to make more options.
(That’s a different bugbear of mine though..)

**Irbis**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Irbis wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

What makes it even funnier (and dumber) is the fact they got stalker bolt rifle option a year before model with it was released, said model being mega-limited-buy-me-now-only-in-GW-stores junk, so unless you happened to grab it during a few hours it was available, the bit does not exist for all intents and purposes...

?

Unless I'm mistaken on what you are talking about, this kit has a primaris captain with stalker bolt rifle.... https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Primaris-Space-Marines-Captain

I meant Lt with stalker rifle. The starter one only comes with assault bolter, the only Lt with stalker was the 500 stores model that came out 18 months after lieutenants got the option in Codex. And GW obviously didn't even consider using this captain as Lt, because if they did, Lts would have frakking melee + rifle option already outside of wolfwolf special snowflake one...

**NivlacSupreme**

The HQ models made by Games Workshop have always been more or less locked into one or two weapon options, with the exception of the old Space Marine Commander kit. That’s why I’ve always preferred to kitbash my own HQs.

The models aren’t the problem. The problem is that they’re sticking with only giving them loadouts that appear on the models. GW doesn’t want to inspire conversions anymore.

The more I read this, the more I realise that it’s exceptionally obvious.

**Tannhauser42**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
The HQ models made by Games Workshop have always been more or less locked into one or two weapon options, with the exception of the old Space Marine Commander kit. That’s why I’ve always preferred to kitbash my own HQs.

The models aren’t the problem. The problem is that they’re sticking with only giving them loadouts that appear on the models. GW doesn’t want to inspire conversions anymore.

The more I read this, the more I realise that it’s exceptionally obvious.

GW doesn't want to inspire 3rd party bits makers anymore, that's the core of the problem.

**Crimson**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
The HQ models made by Games Workshop have always been more or less locked into one or two weapon options, with the exception of the old Space Marine Commander kit. That’s why I’ve always preferred to kitbash my own HQs.

The models aren’t the problem. The problem is that they’re sticking with only giving them loadouts that appear on the models. GW doesn’t want to inspire conversions anymore.

The more I read this, the more I realise that it’s exceptionally obvious.

GW doesn't want to inspire 3rd party bits makers anymore, that's the core of the problem.

But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!

**spiralingcadaver**

Yep, I 100% get "no part, no rules" as a defense against 3rd party companies swooping in, but I think it's absurd that they've gone to the lengths of "no model, no rules," since so many kits have spare weapons that you'll have around if you collect the army at all. Kitbashing is a really enjoyable part of the hobby, and I think that rejecting that hurts the game and, to the extent that rules sell models, probably isn't the best for GW. (If, for instance, the only thing wrong with a model is its inability to take stripped down gear (because their rules are a valuable niche but not for the price) or the right generic heavyweight melee weapon, then chances are they're losing sales where they otherwise wouldn't be.)

**Irbis**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
The HQ models made by Games Workshop have always been more or less locked into one or two weapon options, with the exception of the old Space Marine Commander kit. That’s why I’ve always preferred to kitbash my own HQs.

The models aren’t the problem. The problem is that they’re sticking with only giving them loadouts that appear on the models. GW doesn’t want to inspire conversions anymore.

The more I read this, the more I realise that it’s exceptionally obvious.

But the thing is, you at the same time NEED to kitbash most of the primaris range anyway. Want stalker on Lt? Kitbash was the only option last 2 years, unless you scored 500 shops model on that one day. Captain with plasma pistol? Kitbash only, unless you got store birthday model. Sarges? Literally every singe melee option requires kitbashing. Ancient? Kitbash or starter model. Etc, etc, it's really dumb and irregular while at the same bleeding sales from stupid inconsistencies (like reiver sarges not being able to actually take any melee options to make the unit less toothless, or only half of the range having access to plasma pistols for no reason, while the other half has access to melee weapons, making it impossible to combine iconic power sword/plasma pistol loadout on anything...)

**H.B.M.C.**

Crimson wrote:
But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!

The fact that you can't easily do that these days has everything to do with their fear of third party bits makers.

**Racerguy180**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!
The fact that you can't easily do that these days has everything to do with their fear of third party bits makers.

They're trying to remove a market for 3rd party stuff. If there is no reason(rules/whatever) for you to need a different weapon than what specifically come in the box, then they dont have to worry about you spending hobby$€£¥ elsewhere.

**sockwithaticket**

Racerguy180 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!
The fact that you can't easily do that these days has everything to do with their fear of third party bits makers.

They're trying to remove a market for 3rd party stuff. If there is no reason(rules/whatever) for you to need a different weapon than what specifically come in the box, then they dont have to worry about you spending hobby$€£¥ elsewhere.

Which is daft on their part because the 3rd party market has long since switched to two main areas:
1) bits/models that are directly analagous to GW stuff, but give you a different/custom aesthetic
2) wargear GW gives you too little of in official kits (CSM Chain reaper cannon for example.)

The established 3rd party companies like Kromlech and Anvil aren't going to disappear because GW cut down on the options they give us, as that's not what's been generating their money. However, GWs current choices regarding those restrictions and the subsequent kit design do mean one of the more fun parts of the hobby for some of us, kitbashing, is being made incrementally more difficult and unecessary.

**NivlacSupreme**

And Anvil’s main market seems to be the Guard now. They offer about as many warhead options as GW does and only really have more aesthetic differences.

**Kirasu**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
The HQ models made by Games Workshop have always been more or less locked into one or two weapon options, with the exception of the old Space Marine Commander kit. That’s why I’ve always preferred to kitbash my own HQs.

The models aren’t the problem. The problem is that they’re sticking with only giving them loadouts that appear on the models. GW doesn’t want to inspire conversions anymore.

The more I read this, the more I realise that it’s exceptionally obvious.

GW doesn't want to inspire 3rd party bits makers anymore, that's the core of the problem.

Then they've failed miserably as 3rd party bits have never been MORE popular. So basically GW is making their kits less useful because of a problem that isn't a problem

**MrMoustaffa**

Nevelon wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Togusa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Crimson wrote:
I just want to be able to freely equip my Primaris character from the armoury. The predetermined gear combos for characters is my biggest peeve with the Primaris, especially as many of the loadouts are completely idiotic. Gravis Captain has two expensive melee weapons, whilst Phohos Captains and Lieutenants with an ability to deploy close to the enemy do not get real melee weapons at all. It is so frustrating.

agreed. and even regular captains and lts have a really odd limiter that annoys me, the ability to take master crafted auto bolt rifles or stalker bolt rifles but not STANDARD bolt rifles. it drives me batty.

Why would a cappy carry a standard bolt gun? I would expect him to have a master crafted specialist bolt gun

I mean a styandard mastercrafted bolt rifle. not the assault or staslker varient.

So it's strictly a rules thing? People want the AP-1?

The standard rifle is the most flexible. It probably matches the troops he’s leading into battle. It looks cool. The rules crunch is one reason, but there are plenty of fluff and aesthetic reasons as well.

For me, I’d like it so he matches the troops. He’s going to be doing the same things they are, so should be able to shoot in a similar fashion. I actually prefer the looks of the other rifles, but generally like the flexibility of the standard one. Sometimes you need to sit back, sometimes move up. My marines are there for TAC roles, and the rapid fire suits them best. The captain leading them should fit.

YMMV.

So it's like guard players getting sick of being the only army where they can't just take their standard rifle on NCO's and Officers. Which means it'll never happen because GW likes watching us suffer for some reason

**AduroT**

I’ve covered my Primaris in third party bits...

**Yodhrin**

Racerguy180 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!
The fact that you can't easily do that these days has everything to do with their fear of third party bits makers.

They're trying to remove a market for 3rd party stuff. If there is no reason(rules/whatever) for you to need a different weapon than what specifically come in the box, then they dont have to worry about you spending hobby$€£¥ elsewhere.

Well for my money that backfired on them hard, since that trend contributed to my general dissatisfaction with 40K and now I spend more money on Legion than I do on GW.

**BrianDavion**

Yodhrin wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!
The fact that you can't easily do that these days has everything to do with their fear of third party bits makers.

They're trying to remove a market for 3rd party stuff. If there is no reason(rules/whatever) for you to need a different weapon than what specifically come in the box, then they dont have to worry about you spending hobby$€£¥ elsewhere.

Well for my money that backfired on them hard, since that trend contributed to my general dissatisfaction with 40K and now I spend more money on Legion than I do on GW.

doesn't legion have even less customization then 40k?

**H.B.M.C.**

sockwithaticket wrote:
The established 3rd party companies like Kromlech and Anvil aren't going to disappear because GW cut down on the options they give us, as that's not what's been generating their money. However, GWs current choices regarding those restrictions and the subsequent kit design do mean one of the more fun parts of the hobby for some of us, kitbashing, is being made incrementally more difficult and unecessary.

We never said that their choices were logical, only that they were doing them and we know the reasons why.

Dumb reasons are still reasons.

**Yodhrin**

BrianDavion wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
But this has nothing to do with that! I want to be able to kitbash different GW kits with each other!
The fact that you can't easily do that these days has everything to do with their fear of third party bits makers.

They're trying to remove a market for 3rd party stuff. If there is no reason(rules/whatever) for you to need a different weapon than what specifically come in the box, then they dont have to worry about you spending hobby$€£¥ elsewhere.

Well for my money that backfired on them hard, since that trend contributed to my general dissatisfaction with 40K and now I spend more money on Legion than I do on GW.

doesn't legion have even less customization then 40k?

It might? It's an FFG game, so AFAIK unless you're playing in super-serial tournaments what matters are the cards and doodads not the models, so long as they're vague approximations. Regardless, I'm largely spending the money on the models because I want the models, I can use them in any number of games and RPGs.

It's not like I've quit buying GW stuff and burned my army on youtube, but the state of the rules generally and the lack of customisation relative to previous/other GW games specifically, combined with the fluff changes, means I don't play regular 40K any more, and GW have gone from having 90% of my hobby money just prior to the canning of WHF to, between Legion, third party, and 3D printing, maybe 20%? Which is, IMO, why removing options to try and counter third parties is pointless - the vast majority of its customers neither know, nor care to know about third party model and bits makers, and would have been kitbashing other GW parts to access the options that are now gone. The ones that do know about them and use them are also the most likely to be heavily involved in tabletop as a hobby in a more general sense than just The Hobby, and so also the ones most able to simply redirect their spending elsewhere if they're not satisifed.

**sockwithaticket**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
The established 3rd party companies like Kromlech and Anvil aren't going to disappear because GW cut down on the options they give us, as that's not what's been generating their money. However, GWs current choices regarding those restrictions and the subsequent kit design do mean one of the more fun parts of the hobby for some of us, kitbashing, is being made incrementally more difficult and unecessary.
We never said that their choices were logical, only that they were doing them and we know the reasons why.

Dumb reasons are still reasons.

Oh I know, I was just chiming in with my own "They're being idiots", in mild disbelief.

**aka_mythos**

Kirasu wrote:
Tannhauser42 wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
The HQ models made by Games Workshop have always been more or less locked into one or two weapon options, with the exception of the old Space Marine Commander kit. That’s why I’ve always preferred to kitbash my own HQs.

The models aren’t the problem. The problem is that they’re sticking with only giving them loadouts that appear on the models. GW doesn’t want to inspire conversions anymore.

The more I read this, the more I realise that it’s exceptionally obvious.

GW doesn't want to inspire 3rd party bits makers anymore, that's the core of the problem.

Then they've failed miserably as 3rd party bits have never been MORE popular. So basically GW is making their kits less useful because of a problem that isn't a problem

The point was made to them in the whole Chapterhouse Studios suit; even when people buy third party bits and parts it means people buy the GW models to put them on. GW might think they're protecting their IP and helping their bottom line but all GW is doing is taking people who would have still bought their GW products then supplemented it with 3rd party bits and pushed them towards just finding complete 3rd party alternatives or not buying at all.

**BrookM**

Kindly take it to a thread of it's own, thanks!

**Crimson**

**Kanluwen**

Yup, I need that model.

**Crimson**

It's a cool model. Too bad it is yet another useless phobos HQ because they refuse to give them real weapons.

**Kanluwen**

Crimson wrote:
It's a cool model. Too bad it is yet another useless phobos HQ because they refuse to give them real weapons.

I'm unsure on this. That's a new style of Heavy Bolt Pistol, or at the very least it has an extended magazine.

**Crimson**

Kanluwen wrote:
Crimson wrote:
It's a cool model. Too bad it is yet another useless phobos HQ because they refuse to give them real weapons.

I'm unsure on this. That's a new style of Heavy Bolt Pistol, or at the very least it has an extended magazine.

Whoop-de-doo. I meant the melee weapon.