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 AndrewC wrote:
I get the requirement that Marines needed a boost in the present meta and that they were frequently ignored in preference to other factions, I am also genuinely pleased that GW has heard the pleas of marine players, but am I the only one concerned that they have jumped too far the other way?

Why take any other faction when a marine has it better (YMMV)? People took specific factions because some aspect of their gameplay appealed to them. Is anyone going to bother when they can buy a marine army and get to do all the specific things they could, but better?

It will be interesting to see if there is a major rewrite of the points costs for the units.

Cheers

Andrew

Generally you still get 2 guys per one marine and still double the shots, just less quality of said shots. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Marines won't be bottom tier but I don't think they'll be dominating

fraser1191 wrote:I figure stalkers have better damage cause they take more time to aim, are probably more accurate, and hit a critical spot

perfectly reasonable.

Not Online!!! wrote:


IT's still a bloody Stubpistol which just so happen to has an actual pistol it's range is 6" S3 No Ap D 1. Are you going to tell me that a gakky revolver will even be able to use that ammo?

There is no special equipment required to fire what is basically a depleted uranium bullet.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


IT's still a bloody Stubpistol which just so happen to has an actual pistol it's range is 6" S3 No Ap D 1. Are you going to tell me that a gakky revolver will even be able to use that ammo?

There is no special equipment required to fire what is basically a depleted uranium bullet.

It's a pistol unique to him so chalk it up to skill on the user

 JNAProductions wrote:


If one squad of Plaguebearers is -2 4++...

Shoot the other squad. There can be, at most, one squad affected by the -1 Psychic Power, and one squad affected by the 4++ strat. In addition, the 4++ is declared at the START of the phase, NOT in response to being shot at.

In other words the amazing combo changes nothing, you may as well leave that unit alone and target something else so you are still not getting at the characters hiding behind it who are doing the damage.

Which is my point; the offensive power of SM is definitely going up but not in any sort of game-breaking way and when you look at them against top level lists not really in a game-changing way that we have seen yet. Definitely they are much closer to being able to hang with those top lists but I am not seeing much more than that in anything that has been teased so far. Calm down the hype, this stuff is good but its not any more crazy good than stuff we have been seeing on tables for a while.

 AndrewC wrote:
I get the requirement that Marines needed a boost in the present meta and that they were frequently ignored in preference to other factions, I am also genuinely pleased that GW has heard the pleas of marine players, but am I the only one concerned that they have jumped too far the other way?

Why take any other faction when a marine has it better (YMMV)? People took specific factions because some aspect of their gameplay appealed to them. Is anyone going to bother when they can buy a marine army and get to do all the specific things they could, but better?

It will be interesting to see if there is a major rewrite of the points costs for the units.

Cheers

Andrew

Because they look cool and have cool fluff. Easy.


In seriousness, the buffs might not be that bad, but who knows.

 AndrewC wrote:
I get the requirement that Marines needed a boost in the present meta and that they were frequently ignored in preference to other factions, I am also genuinely pleased that GW has heard the pleas of marine players, but am I the only one concerned that they have jumped too far the other way?

Why take any other faction when a marine has it better (YMMV)? People took specific factions because some aspect of their gameplay appealed to them. Is anyone going to bother when they can buy a marine army and get to do all the specific things they could, but better?

It will be interesting to see if there is a major rewrite of the points costs for the units.

Cheers

Andrew

Honestly my initial reaction was that it was too much. I might have overacted a bit though it is possible that marines might be a top choice now. However you have to consider how bad they actually were to understand these massive buffs they are getting will only elevate them to the top level of play and not beyond it. If you gave buff like this to say...DE or AM - they literally could not lose a game. This ofc is just if they do not change points much. If any of the core units go up in price that seem to benefit the most from these rules they go from being top choices to garbage really quick. Lets sit back and play it. I am really excited to get out there and try all of these chapters rules out. I am going to spend a lot of money too.

The White Scars rules look really bad (or at best, really mediocre) for Primaris, but better for Adeptus Marines

 Crazyterran wrote:
The White Scars rules look really bad (or at best, really mediocre) for Primaris, but better for Adeptus Marines

Not terrible for inceptors. If their mortal wound on the charge is changed to a more reasonable 4+ instead of 6+ they could even be a core choice.

white scars IMHO will be solid running mixes, as even intercessors are decent in a close combat fight. but yeah you're gonna wanna have bikes. and even assault marines. (did I really jsut say "you're going to want to have assault marines?! wow)

We better get a shoots twice stratagem.

 Xenomancers wrote:
We better get a shoots twice stratagem.

even if we don't I'd say the ability for UMs to rapid fire on the movie'll make up for it

Ice_can wrote:

I don't see why your so hyped about UM stalkers they still look meh at best for other chapters that stay in devistator doctrine maybe.

Because 36" -2 D2 is nice? I did the math without Doctrines. Without Doctrine a D2 Stalker actually edges out a Bolt Rifle on 2+ wound targets. Before the D2 change they were close - and I was pointing that out - after the change the Stalker outpaces the Bolt Rifle - after Doctrines it should swing back to the Bolt Rifle, but not by much so I plan on taking both Bolt Rifle and Stalker Intercessors for different purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stalker is D2. So tomatoes tomatos vs lots of targets. It's not worth spamming them. It is worth bringing 1 unit though I think to use the sniper stratagem. #1 that does mortal wounds on 6's #2 that allows you to target characters. If there is multi wound stuff to shoot in the game they will perform about equal to a bolt rfile and BETTER on turn 1 by a large margine. They are really bad vs hordes though.If you face hordes - pout that unit into CC first.

In general though, this is how it should be. Same goes if the rumour is true that Auto BRs may be Assault 3.
D2 Stalker and Assault 3 Auto BR are both better than RF BRs at their intended targets, by enough of a margin that 1-2 units with each are worth taking. But the RF BR is a better all-rounder weapon to spam. If the Auto BR is indeed Assault 3 (but 1-2ppm over the RF BR), then GW deserves a pat on the back.

-

Except if your chasing multi damage/snipers why not go eliminators as the look way better than stalkers.
Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

While none of it is game breaking without some of those buffs a number of these options are still relatively weak.

Because they're about 10 points per model more, don't pay the "troop tax", don't objective secured, and will likely be Unit Size 3/6 so you're paying even more for even fewer shots.

How many Deathwatch Veterans are putting in for a transfer back to their Chapter for the massive upgrades?

Assault 3 auto bolt rifles will be wicked on white scars. Advance a 5-man squad, fire 15 ap-1 shots with tactical doctrine, charge in and do 16-17 attacks depending on chainsword, and then the next turn switch to assault doctrine and either use your pistols or fall back and charge again for shock attack.

So apparently marines can now deep strike turn 1 with drop pods, now as the only faction in the game to be able to do that now. This is fething ridiculous, even by GW standards. This book is going to be so over the top ridiculous it won't even be funny. This book so far looks like it's WHFB Chaos Daemons level of garbage. I'm honestly very glad that I couldn't do two games at once and chose to put 40k on the backburner for now.

Wayniac wrote:
So apparently marines can now deep strike turn 1 with drop pods, now as the only faction in the game to be able to do that now. This is fething ridiculous, even by GW standards. This book is going to be so over the top ridiculous it won't even be funny. This book so far looks like it's WHFB Chaos Daemons level of garbage. I'm honestly very glad that I couldn't do two games at once and chose to put 40k on the backburner for now.

Tac marines are now 12 pts aswell... Supposedly.

I mean maybe it won't actually end up that bad. But from all the previews and stuff, this book seems like it's in a tier all its own that's head and shoulders better than everything else in the game.

Wayniac wrote:
I mean maybe it won't actually end up that bad. But from all the previews and stuff, this book seems like it's in a tier all its own that's head and shoulders better than everything else in the game.

He now, equivalent units of Chaos pay now officially spike tax.
It is never bad when a whole faction pays spiketax.

keep ion mind CSMs are going to be getting a FAQ that offically gives them shock assault. with any luck they'll tweek the points costs for CSMs then too

Wayniac wrote:
So apparently marines can now deep strike turn 1 with drop pods, now as the only faction in the game to be able to do that now. This is fething ridiculous, even by GW standards. This book is going to be so over the top ridiculous it won't even be funny. This book so far looks like it's WHFB Chaos Daemons level of garbage. I'm honestly very glad that I couldn't do two games at once and chose to put 40k on the backburner for now.

That was the big thing about Drop Pods when they were new. Half of them automatically came in on Turn 1 while other people were rolling for reserves. They're getting some of that back that made them worth taking.

Yeah, Drop Pods deffo need something to make them worthwhile. I'd be pretty happy even with them just getting a load cheaper tbh.

They still carry old Marines only and those die like flies.

Wayniac wrote:
So apparently marines can now deep strike turn 1 with drop pods, now as the only faction in the game to be able to do that now. This is fething ridiculous, even by GW standards. This book is going to be so over the top ridiculous it won't even be funny. This book so far looks like it's WHFB Chaos Daemons level of garbage. I'm honestly very glad that I couldn't do two games at once and chose to put 40k on the backburner for now.

I honestly don't see a problem with this if pods stay at their current price.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
So apparently marines can now deep strike turn 1 with drop pods, now as the only faction in the game to be able to do that now. This is fething ridiculous, even by GW standards. This book is going to be so over the top ridiculous it won't even be funny. This book so far looks like it's WHFB Chaos Daemons level of garbage. I'm honestly very glad that I couldn't do two games at once and chose to put 40k on the backburner for now.

I honestly don't see a problem with this if pods stay at their current price.

They still have restrictions like they always did. I don't remember people screaming about drop pods at the start of 8th. The sky isn't falling, but drop pods are

Still nothing to put in the pod...

Centurion W4 and Aggressors W3, and big hoorahhhh to norm marines making it. A lot of tactics now to all include vehicles.

If norm marines didn't make it than we all would go primaris, just go 32's with higher base size and Deathwatch, but you made it...) (I still am all now DW)

Good review at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aq0Uv3r4E

Yes! Extra wound for Gravis! Now they're good! I said just a couple of days a go that this is what they need.

 Nazrak wrote:
Yeah, Drop Pods deffo need something to make them worthwhile. I'd be pretty happy even with them just getting a load cheaper tbh.

Drop pods can't carry Primaris. I don't think GW is going to care much about them at this point.

Ok, this is getting too much now.
Welcome to necron 7th!

Say goodbye to any semblance of balance we finally got in this edition after years of careful changes!

Now we can only hope in the next CA to increase the cost of everything marine...