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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.

And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).

Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.

They'll probably turn up as a SC box.

JSG wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.

And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).

Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.

They'll probably turn up as a SC box.

a squad of CSMs, 2 oblits and a venom crawler? yeah I could see it

JSG wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.

And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).

Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.

They'll probably turn up as a SC box.

Not before solo box of them though. SC is older units in discount box.

My guess is no Suppressors because this is a Phobos centered release and they’re not wearing Phobos armor. I was hoping for some new options for them though, anti tank preferably, but that seems to be getting covered by the Eliminators instead.

The Ultimate Smash Prince
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Renegade Trait: Flawless Host
WL Trait: Ultimate Confidence
MoC: Slaanesh.
Relic: Intoxicating Elixir.
Psychic Powers, Smite, Diabolic Strength, Prescience.
Shock Assault Rules: +1 A.
Weee S10 Over 9000 Attacks = Salt Generator.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Everyone knows, Ghaz, that the real trendsetter is Geordi LaForge.

Honestly, I like the concept though. I think this is the first time we've actually seen the whole concept of the "scope isn't really a scope and links wirelessly to something else" actually modeled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Phobos Lieutenant has an interesting blend of Incursor Visor(it looks like the Incursors' perk of ignoring modifiers comes from the visor and the Oculus Bolt Carbine working together) and a mask that we haven't seen yet on anything Phobos. It's shown up just on the Lt and a somewhat similar mask is on Intercessors(minus the quad cylinders).

Spoiler:

Interestingly enough as well, the Instigator Bolt Carbine is what the Phobos Captain has a Master-Crafted version of.

The Phobos Librarian has the same mask. Just splitting hairs though.

Part of me wants to really see what the stats are for the Pistol and Knife Lieutenant. I might convert my Shadowspear LT into that one if the stats are good.

You're right, and upon closer examination...it's interesting.


The quad cylinders are there, just the 'mask' is the same as the Infiltrators instead of the other Intercessor styled mask.

This model looks like the designer was told to make a Reiver more high tech and had no idea how to do so, so he just dabbed some glue and rolled it in a bits box full of nothing but scopes and sensors. Seriously, how the hell is there such a huge disconnect in design quality between the “high tech” models like these and the moon shoe marines, and the actually good Primaris models like Kor’sarro and the Intercessors.

ptobably the most accurate description.

Especially the scope on the gun.

I generally like the more tacticool types too, but I really don't like the scope on the new Incurors. It is just too damn massive.

BrianDavion wrote:

JSG wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.

And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).

Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.

They'll probably turn up as a SC box.

a squad of CSMs, 2 oblits and a venom crawler? yeah I could see it

These are the sprues:

It would get you:
10x Chaos Space Marines
2x Obliterators
2x Greater Possessed(can't forget these chaps!)
1x Venomcrawler

For giggles, here's the Primaris half:


Shadowspear got you a duplicate of the first sprue(the 'rank and file') and a single of the second, if released by itself it would get you:
10x Infiltrators
3x Eliminators
3x Suppressors
1x Phobos Lieutenant

The Captain and Librarian in Phobos Armor plus the Master of Possession are all individual sprues.

Interestingly enough, the CSM side comes out heavier in terms of Power Levels if you plug just the Shadowspear contents into the Combat Roster:




The Chaos side lacks an HQ on their sprues but has more expensive stuff via the Obliterators and Venomcrawler.

The chaos side is definitely NOT the "expensive" stuff. Gotta get away from using GW prices to determine worth :p The CSM side of shadowspear is super easy to get on ebay or in trades still... because it's not good.

Marine side is extremely hard to find and you pay basically $30-40 for each unit.

"Expensive" clearly was in reference to the unit's in-game values, given that the spoilered section immediately above was army rosters.

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Expensive" clearly was in reference to the unit's in-game values, given that the spoilered section immediately above was army rosters.

You used the term "heavier" in the spoiler and then expensive after it.. Either way, in points/PL or money its a bad deal for CSM!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No new Suppressors? Why... ?

Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.

One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.

That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?

GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.

And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).

Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.

Hmm. If I'm going to run a brigade then three suppressors are not enough. I hope they do get a proper kit. I'd be pretty surprised if they don't, eventually. But they never particularly fitted with the Vanguard thing, which this release is mainly focused on. The full kit might not come for a while - which would suck.

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No new Suppressors? Why... ?

Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.

One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.

That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?

GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.

Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.

This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No new Suppressors? Why... ?

Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.

One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.

That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?

GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.

Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.

This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.

I never claimed it was smart.

And it still worked, those boxsets sold out faster around here than anything else released in months. I was talking to two of the local store owners in my area. One store (the bigger) sold 105 copies of Shadowspear, the other store sold 56 copies.

That is a metric ton of sales for a boxset if you ask me.

 Togusa wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No new Suppressors? Why... ?

Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.

One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.

That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?

GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.

Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.

This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.

I never claimed it was smart.

And it still worked, those boxsets sold out faster around here than anything else released in months. I was talking to two of the local store owners in my area. One store (the bigger) sold 105 copies of Shadowspear, the other store sold 56 copies.

That is a metric ton of sales for a boxset if you ask me.

It worked, but it would still be working if they were still selling the box.

I can't wait for SM players to have to buy their codex again when inevitably the next campaign book set has more new primaris. Like more dudes in suppressor armor or more dudes in gravis armor. lol

Scions of Guilliman Preview


Apparently this is a flat, Supplement ability.

So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

Makes sense. Gives a reason not to just use the cheesiest version of chapter traits. So either you can mix and match your traits or take one of the set ones and get lots of other stuff.

Question is if these require the entire army, not just detachment, to be drawn from the same books. (i.e. all Ultramarines)

 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

Yeah holy Emperor...

I don’t get the Master of Strategy warlord trait. It says allows an accompanying unit the use of the Tactical doctrine, but I thought everything used the doctrine that was activated at the same time across the army? Or does it mean that it can use the Tactical doctrine out of sequence on the unit? If it does then that plus the Scions of Guilliman rule on some supercharged hellblasters with Heavy Plasma incinerators will be harsh

Ok in this image:



It looked at first like a hellblaster was stood on the impulsor, perhaps even firing off the back of it. I think he's probably in the trench though.

 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

Only a -1 if you advance them. Instead you can pop 3 in the Impulsor, move drop and fire twice.

Wow, as a marine player this is just crazy.

If the rest of the splat books contain abilities as powerful as this one hello marine meta.

The cash grab aspect of this really bothers me though. Obvious OP rules are obvious and this doesn't even look like GW was trying to put out something balanced.

The splat books are going to be a must buy. The "marine book" is basically a 40$ tax to be able to play your chapter.

DA/SW/BA/DW (me) are majorly boned by this release though. Paying for marine units without new and improved marine rules is so bad for factions (DA/SW/BA) that already struggled to keep up with codex marines. The same for the rest of the marine chapters who don't have their releases yet (at least their salvation is just beyond the horizon...)

As much as I like to see marines improved this release is starting to look bad for the health of the game, a thinly veiled pay to win cash grab and indicative of GW not understanding the game they make (most of my main gripes about 40k).

All this could be changed by what we actually see in the codex so I'm trying my best to hold off on rushing to judgement but from what we've seen so far it's not looking good (no Gman nerf!?!?)...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

Only a -1 if you advance them. Instead you can pop 3 in the Impulsor, move drop and fire twice.

That's unsettling, if they actually fit in the Impusor (no particular reason they wouldn't, but termies don't fit in rhinos).

I guess you can't do it on turn 1, unless there's a stratagem to let you... which is pretty likely. This makes even the flamer aggressors not awful.

Weird to see an Ultramarine army without any Marines in it.

All Primaris.

Mandragola wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

Only a -1 if you advance them. Instead you can pop 3 in the Impulsor, move drop and fire twice.

That's unsettling, if they actually fit in the Impusor (no particular reason they wouldn't, but termies don't fit in rhinos).

I guess you can't do it on turn 1, unless there's a stratagem to let you... which is pretty likely. This makes even the flamer aggressors not awful.

Impuslor fits 6 Primaris, 3 Agressors is 6 Normal Primaris. Rush up, shoot.

Thats what 12+2d6 Shots per dude at Ap -1 (Ap -2 with the Ultra Strat and 6s)

Ohhh boi.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

EEEP