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So, the new war-suit will be used to defend Zion from the Machine Invasion?

Knuckle Up!

Not Online!!! wrote:
Ohhh boi.


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 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

EEEP

A pod of three Aggressors dropping out of an Impulsor turn 2 is going to put out ~54 S4 AP-1 D1 shots. Thats bloody terrifying.

I meant minus 1 as in not only moving and firing twice but the tactical doctrine also makes those shots ap -1.

Didn't the counts as moving thing recently have a long exhaustive faq explanation maybe baconcatbug or someone can workout if this will be legit

This is ofc assuming they even still have the fire twice thing in the new codex

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird to see an Ultramarine army without any Marines in it.

All Primaris.

Didn't you get that memo?

 Latro_ wrote:
I meant minus 1 as in not only moving and firing twice but the tactical doctrine also makes those shots ap -1

And people complained about Cacophony on certain units.


Boy infantry lists are preety much hard countered now.

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird to see an Ultramarine army without any Marines in it.

All Primaris.

Didn't you get that memo?

Yeah, they ripped off that band aid two years ago. Anyone who thought otherwise (not necessarily HBMC as I suspect he's playing coy) was kidding themselves. The best we can hope for is legacy support going forward.

Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.

 Latro_ wrote:
I meant minus 1 as in not only moving and firing twice but the tactical doctrine also makes those shots ap -1.

Didn't the counts as moving thing recently have a long exhaustive faq explanation maybe baconcatbug or someone can workout if this will be legit

This is ofc assuming they even still have the fire twice thing in the new codex

Well they still wouldnt get a -1 from Firing twice, and they ignore the -1 from Advancing, which would discount them from firing twice with this. So I should have known thats what you were meaning, my bad.

I cant imagine them changing them from being able to fire twice, its pretty much the only thing they have going for them. Im pretty sure they would benefit from it. As long as they have the Doctrine, they count as not having moved.

 warboss wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird to see an Ultramarine army without any Marines in it.

All Primaris.

Didn't you get that memo?

Yeah, they ripped off that band aid two years ago. Anyone who thought otherwise (not necessarily HBMC as I suspect he's playing coy) was kidding themselves. The best we can hope for is legacy support going forward.

So unpopular opinion time.

I started this hobby with marines, Salamanders to be exact at the beginning of 7th end of 6th.

Bring on the Primaris.

The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines

To me, I'd be happy if they just squatted all midget marines withthis book and included only primaris models.

 Togusa wrote:

The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines

I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.

They can't feel more marine than the marines, that's nonsense...
And if you have ever read the very first page of a rule book, you know they fit less: forget science etc ? Does this remind you of smth ?

You know, it's weird, I have no interest whatsoever in buying or owning Primaris Marines and yet I agree 100% with Togusa. My Beakies got a wonderful send off with the Battle Company rules in 7th, and it's nice to see GW doing something new with them.

I think the real question is whether this codex makes Marines good enough to stand up to Knights and Aeldari.

So is it, like, really dangerous to cross the Rubicon Primaris? And if so, what are the chances we'll see any named characters dying in the process? Like, oh no! Commander Dante died in surgery! Such a tragic end for such a noble hero!

Or maybe it just so happens that the only ones who don't make it are ones we don't care about and/or who they don't want to update the models for and/or who are Black Templars.

 warboss wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines

I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.

I agree they are just much better. They are the right size for marines and they have the stats marines always should have had.

Marines are supposed to be badasses. For several editions a tactical marine with a bolt gun was nothing more than a scoring unit token. These are meant to be GW’s signature model - probably the first thing anyone thinks of when they think of the company. Now they have an actual value in the game.

The mini marines were great kits when they came out, but that was decades ago. It’s not good enough to have armour that a person (no mater how enhanced) could never fit inside any more.

I do understand the nostalgia, and not wanting to bin companies worth of plastic, but it’s impossible to argue that the old models are better.

 xKillGorex wrote:
Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.

I see a diorama with a marine policeman and ork buggy

 bullyboy wrote:

 xKillGorex wrote:
Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.

I see a diorama with a marine policeman and ork buggy

Ha yeah, that’s exactly the image i had in mind when i saw the mini.

What primaris did for marines needed to happen to marines even if primaris weren't the best way to do it. Tactical marines being something of the baseline unit for the game meant as time went on power creep was leaving them in the dust to the point that it almost didn't matter how cheap they were since they ended up as disposable and vulnerable as scouts... and you couldn't really change that much without addressing a bunch of other armies too.

Space Marines relative to the wider pop culture end up not as cool as they were in the 80's and 90's when they were conceptually solidified. You have a generation exposed through video game to a slew of the tactical equipment of modern military and you have sci-fi movies and games where fictional advanced technology is portrayed in something of a departure of the more grounded portrayal more common in the decades Space Marines were created.

How often does someone new ask, "why do marines use Rhinos and not Chimeras?" because of the perception that a tank with a gun and transport capacity is better than a dedicated armored people mover. There are a slew of reasons but Space Marines are meant to appeal in a way that immediately resonates with people that are intrigued by gaming miniatures.

I like my classic space marines and I like the Primaris. I wish one didn't need to be propped up by keeping the other one down... likely phasing them out. I would have liked to have seen Primaris released more gradually. My issue with Primaris is that they represent how far behind in generations of models many other factions are... but the Primaris represent a shift away from updating the model kits for existing units, to just replacing them.

 Argive wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Very nice models and the create-your-own-chapter feature is obviously uber-cool. But its time GW took a look at the Eldar, a very iconic 40K race along with the Orks.

And what? Nerfed them? Eldar have been a top-performing faction for twenty years. They need to look at Necrons and Tyranids long long long before they look at Eldar.

And they have been using the same kits for 20 years is the point he's trying to make im sure.

Yes, this correct.

Sterling191 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Ohhh boi.


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 Latro_ wrote:
So doctrines are on vehicles then!

So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)

EEEP

A pod of three Aggressors dropping out of an Impulsor turn 2 is going to put out ~54 S4 AP-1 D1 shots. Thats bloody terrifying.

Aggressors don’t get -1 AP during tactical doctrine. Gotta wait for the assault doctrine.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Aggressors don’t get -1 AP during tactical doctrine. Gotta wait for the assault doctrine.

Tactical doctrine is for RF and Assault weapons. Assault doctrine is pistols and melee.

Hmm,, ok. Must’ve misremembered. Gonna be lots of new rules to memorize, lol.

They also don’t suffer minus 1 for firing twice


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They also don’t suffer minus 1 for firing twice

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
They also don’t suffer minus 1 for firing twice


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They also don’t suffer minus 1 for firing twice

He meant -1 AP (from the doctrine), not -1 to hit.

Looks like chapter master is a unit and not a stratagem again.

Ah got ya.

Also, now that Stalker Bolt Rifles are basically the Master crafted Stalkers what will Master crafted do to them in this edition? I think either extra shots or higher strength

here are also a number of bespoke Ultramarines datasheets, from the noble Captain Sicarius of the 2nd Company to power axe-wielding Honour Guard and even their glorious Primarch and Lord-Commander of the Imperium, Roboute Guilliman.

people had been doing the math and speculating honor guard where removed from the codex and put into the UM supplement. looks like this is confirmed.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Looks like chapter master is a unit and not a stratagem again.

Why would you think that? The current Halo states "ULTRAMARINES CAPTAIN or CHAPTER MASTER only." despite the CHAPTER MASTER being a Stratagem.

UM get another bonus on top of the tactical doctrine and not a shabby one. I'm curious what the other chapters will get. Also a bonus on doctrines or something unique?

Expect every supplement chapter to get a doctrine bonus in a similar fashion.

 warboss wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines

I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.

Clarification: They look the appropriate size when compared to other races on the tabletop. Proportions look better, they feel powerful just from their aesthetics.