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They're probably (finally) consolidating the two into a single product.

Who buys Rhinos? I know I and everyone I know just buys the Razorback. Changing between the two option is literally as easy as swapping the top hatch.

xttz wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines

Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marine-Rhino-2019

oni wrote:They're probably (finally) consolidating the two into a single product.

Who buys Rhinos? I know I and everyone I know just buys the Razorback. Changing between the two option is literally as easy as swapping the top hatch.

I think you guys are probably right. I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a price bump. GW's financial statements made it clear its their priority to improve the margin on older products... Reboxing and or combining kits accompanied by price increases is how they've done that in the past.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
That would suck. But, it would be a case of "no model no rules" striking again.

Captain on Bike is still listed in the Codex. This one is probably just White Scar flavored.

Yeah I know, we were talking about options for the Khan on Bike.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-the-great-khangw-homepage-post-1/
Boop

Never mind it's back up

Back up.

Their doctrine is...eh.

Sterling191 wrote:
Back up.

Their doctrine is...eh.

It's not as obvious and in your face as the ultras but their intercessors are landing 3 str 4 ap-1 d2 attacks each, which is a problem for mirror matches and death guard etc. I'm sure there's a unit that will screw up big stuff with the extra damage

Unless they can start in Assault its not gonna matter.

Dudeface wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Back up.

Their doctrine is...eh.

It's not as obvious and in your face as the ultras but their intercessors are landing 3 str 4 ap-1 d2 attacks each, which is a problem for mirror matches and death guard etc. I'm sure there's a unit that will screw up big stuff with the extra damage

Biker type smash captain...?

Extra damage in melee is potentially awesome, for the right unit, but I agree it's not quite as good as firing like you were standing still.

White Scar captain on bike with thunder hammer could be fun. Lots of attacks for 4 damage. And things like power fists in Intercessor squads become about 50% more effective on the charge. They're actually a decent threat now - for their price - with the extra attack as well.

Kor’sarro Khan is also very respectable. Against characters he'll have 6 attacks, rerolling to hit and wound (probably on a 3+), each doing a rerollable D3+1 damage. Presumably he's losing the option of riding a bike though.

The key thing I, a non-White Scar player, take from this is that everyone's getting one of these extra doctrine-related things. Wonder what my Crimson Fist one will be. Hope it's not just vs orks!

Not gonna lie, I was kinda hoping for new bikes with White Scars.

Seeing as how both Chapters get special abilities when in certain doctrines, I hope Salamanders get something to help out with flamers and the amount of shots they generate.

On another note, did they mention how Warlord traits will work with named characters now? Before you were forced to use the one unique to your chapter, but now there are multiple traits to choose from.

 The Forgemaster wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Back up.

Their doctrine is...eh.

It's not as obvious and in your face as the ultras but their intercessors are landing 3 str 4 ap-1 d2 attacks each, which is a problem for mirror matches and death guard etc. I'm sure there's a unit that will screw up big stuff with the extra damage

Biker type smash captain...?

Provided the Khan on Bike gets Hammers, we're seeing Slamghatai Khan.

 Orodhen wrote:
Seeing as how both Chapters get special abilities when in certain doctrines, I hope Salamanders get something to help out with flamers and the amount of shots they generate.

On another note, did they mention how Warlord traits will work with named characters now? Before you were forced to use the one unique to your chapter, but now there are multiple traits to choose from.

Likely each Character will have a fixed Warlord trait - normally works like that?

It's by no means a bad trait and give me hope for how awesome the Iron hand and Imperial Fist one will be. White Scars are going to fall behind IMO just because bikes are not that great and do not look good. They need to be updated with primaris bikes before I'd even consider WS. Their tactic also being highly restricted to said ugly bikers is a problem.

From the preview it seems the dev took into consideration the fact that the white scar is one of the few chapter, along with the space wolves I think, that have a long time relationship with the warp and that know its potential / dangers. I would love if the codex actually dig a little on that.

Sotahullu wrote:
Not gonna lie, I was kinda hoping for new bikes with White Scars.

Was kind of sad to see all the out dated mini marines in the group shot after yesterday’s all new stuff.

If there's a Strat to change the Doctrine for even one unit in a turn, you realize how utterly power creep that rule is?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
It's by no means a bad trait and give me hope for how awesome the Iron hand and Imperial Fist one will be. White Scars are going to fall behind IMO just because bikes are not that great and do not look good. They need to be updated with primaris bikes before I'd even consider WS. Their tactic also being highly restricted to said ugly bikers is a problem.

Are bikes going to still be bad though? From Turn 2 onwards if you change to Tactical doctrine with bolter discipline they'll be pumping out 4 AP -1 bolter shots each as the tactical doctrine will actually give them AP and being Bikes they can RF full range with their bolters. Then from turn 3 onwards if you swap to Assault doctrine you can charge in with them for an additional -1 AP on all their melee weapons, +1 attack and now +1 damage to all their melee weapons as well. Should make them somewhat usable in conjunction no?

GenRifDrake wrote:

Are bikes going to still be bad though?

Yes, because they're ugly.

 Crimson wrote:

GenRifDrake wrote:

Are bikes going to still be bad though?

Yes, because they're ugly.

I mean, there are the FW ones, but...

I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?

 Crimson wrote:
I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?

I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?

I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one

This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.

Supplement books aren’t necessary for successor chapters.
Not even for the White Scars themselves actually.

It just adds the extra stratagems, relics, and other goodies.

So if you want any of them to use for your successor chapter. You get it. If not. You don’t.



If you pick your own chapter tactics using main book. You then can’t use the white scar bits I think. As they’d have key words etc.
But if your successor is WS and you like the Scars chapter tactic anyway, then just run them as WS.
Unless you specifically wanted to take some successor tactics you liked..

 Crimson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?

I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one

This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.

Honestly, I'm guessing that will be the case.

 xttz wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines

Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marine-Rhino-2019

They did that with every release that happened after the first CA. They are getting reboxed with the new style manuals, new bases where applicable and slightly different boxes.

 Crimson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?

I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one

This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.

There may be some combos that benefit a specific detachment, or turn some key units up to 11. Bit early to write anything off.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except there's only one Khan on Bike mini (assuming they re-release that conversion kit), therefore...

Why would they re-release something that's still available?

 Jidmah wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines

Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marine-Rhino-2019

They did that with every release that happened after the first CA. They are getting reboxed with the new style manuals, new bases where applicable and slightly different boxes.

From the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page:

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Hi chaps - yes just to confirm, these are just being reboxed and should be back up and ready for purchase within the next couple of days. Thanks!