New Codex SM and Chapter Splat Books Coming! (Core and UM/WS splat book FAQs are out)

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**Kdash**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.

The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i diubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.

I think it’s all going to be about options. 5 Reivers and a 4++ Impulsor rocks in at 183 points. All going to depend on what you want those 183 points to do. The Lieutenant is likely going to be in your army anyway, at 62+ points, so we can ignore that investment cost.

I guess it’ll depend on where you setup your early game gunline. If it is mid table using the Warsuits etc, then, getting re-roll 1’s to wound up the table 1st turn is handy. If you’re backlining, then it’s pretty redundant and you can just go for another squad of 10 Intercessors or use the points towards another Repulsor Executioner.

The thought process currently being that – if you’re going 2nd, the scouts will die as an easy first strike and achieve nothing, but the Reivers/Impulsor will likely survive due to there just being more important threats on the table.
On the flip side, if you go first, it’s 34 bolter shots vs re-roll 1’s to wound and positioning for your turn 2. Again, depends on the rest of your army.

My current thought process is leading me down a turn 2 punch with high ROF at -1 or -2ap and charges. The only issue is, as I think with most Marine lists… Is that not having 1st turn could be problematic.

I think there are a lot of small and possibly workable, synergies in this book, though it might take time to work them out and will likely require focus on them when building the list to make the whole thing work.

Yes, that could work.
First turn is for most armies an issue though, but with the investment in pts for Marines (and scouts) it seriously hurts if you don't get it.

Though, to be fair, the more I think about it, the less enthused I am about it lol – with my current list direction anyway… I think it could work, but it is firmly one of the synergy ideas to build completely around and may be better suited for a mech heavy list.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tiberius501 wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.

I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?

I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.

Not a strat, it’s an extra passive buff the Ultramarines have as long as Tactical Doctrine is in effect. Pretty damn good, as it affects everyone, including tanks like the Executioner, or their now obnoxious Aggressors.

Ah, it was the Steady Advance strat I was thinking of – which applies Bolter Discipline regardless of how far you move for 1 unit.

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.

I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?

Referred to ability to shoot rapid fire weapons for 2 shots at will. Move, short range, irrelevant since marines can now have ability to always shoot as if stationary. Those 10 tacticals will be pumping out 20 shots regardless of do they move or not. 20 tacticals will pump out 40 shots. 37 ork boyz(same points) will never reach on foot the marines facing 40 shots at that hit on 3+ and kill on 4+. And all their heavy weapons etc are also moving and shooting without penalty. They don't even need assault weapons anymore to move and shoot at will.

Only thing that keeps ork boyz relevant is ability to deep strike. Other than that marines will simply pepper them to death. Well not that they could before but at least before marines were either static or lost firepower. Now they aren't static and can move around with no penalties.

Ah, found it, thank you. It's Ultramarines only though, so that's kind of a relieve.

I'm not worried about tacticals at all though. Intercessors and Infiltrators are what worry me as an ork player, since the are difficult to shift through shooting, two unit of intercessors piling up on a unit of boyz will now wipe them in close combat, and infiltrators simply make da jump charges impossible.

**X078**

So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?

**Crimson**

X078 wrote:
So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?

It seems pretty good to me. It is quite cheap and can have an invulnerable save. Granted, as it cannot carry Gravis, the passenger options are limited. Hellblasters, Intercessors and characters all benefit from it though. Five Hellblasters + a captain or five veteran Intercessors with a thunder hammer or power fist sergeant + some choppy character seem like valid builds for me.

**Mandragola**

X078 wrote:
So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?

Basically it’s for hellblasters. It stops the baddies shooting you dead on turn one, then you can move a massive distance before rapid firing.

I have a feeling they might have planned for it to be open topped with guys firing off the deck, but that would have been horrendous.

It’s interesting though. People (other than me) have been demanding a primaris rhino forever. Now it’s arrived and nobody is that fussed. The uses for an unarmed box are slightly limited, especially single so many primaris don’t need/can’t use it.

I actually think it’ll be a handy thing to have bobbing around against some people, as it’s cheap and fast enough to use to block movement or assault random things. You can soak overwatch for a smash captain or just try and lock down broadsides, for example. Not sure that warrants actually buying some.

**IanVanCheese**

Mandragola wrote:
X078 wrote:
So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?

Basically it’s for hellblasters. It stops the baddies shooting you dead on turn one, then you can move a massive distance before rapid firing.

I have a feeling they might have planned for it to be open topped with guys firing off the deck, but that would have been horrendous.

It’s interesting though. People (other than me) have been demanding a primaris rhino forever. Now it’s arrived and nobody is that fussed. The uses for an unarmed box are slightly limited, especially single so many primaris don’t need/can’t use it.

I actually think it’ll be a handy thing to have bobbing around against some people, as it’s cheap and fast enough to use to block movement or assault random things. You can soak overwatch for a smash captain or just try and lock down broadsides, for example. Not sure that warrants actually buying some.

If you want to hold an objective, impulsor filled with primaris is tough to beat. Rock hard transport and when you do kill it, rock hard infantry pop out and still hold. It's like more expensive venom spam.

**Kdash**

Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…

Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!

**General Helstrom**

Kdash wrote:
Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…

Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2019/08/04/codex-space-marines-2019-leak-compilation/

There are a few things that you may be thinking of:

Stratagem: Fury of the first (1cp): Any phase. Chosen terminator unit, until the end of phase add +1 to hit rolls.

Chaplain Litany: Resitation of focus: select a friendly unit within 6”, +1 to hit roll for ranged weapons (I believe this is only if they target the closest enemy unit)

**Kdash**

General Helstrom wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…

Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2019/08/04/codex-space-marines-2019-leak-compilation/

There are a few things that you may be thinking of:

Stratagem: Fury of the first (1cp): Any phase. Chosen terminator unit, until the end of phase add +1 to hit rolls.

Chaplain Litany: Resitation of focus: select a friendly unit within 6”, +1 to hit roll for ranged weapons (I believe this is only if they target the closest enemy unit)

Thanks!

**BrianDavion**

that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.

**Kdash**

BrianDavion wrote:
that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.

My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.

That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Yeah I'm really loving from what I read on the White Scars supplement. I'd for sure make my Minotaurs count as their successor.

**Crusaderobr**

I am shocked. They actually gave space marine players point reductions, custom successor chapters, buffs and new strategems ( rapid fire 2 bolt rifles anyone? ). Auto bolt rifles assault 3 all the time? LOL WTF thats awsome! 3 wound Aggressors are actually worth taking now, stick 3 in a repulsor executioner or 5 in the Repulsor. Heck yes. 6 Hellblasters in a shield dome Impulsor is a staple now.

**Voss**

General Helstrom wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…

Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2019/08/04/codex-space-marines-2019-leak-compilation/

There are a few things that you may be thinking of:

Stratagem: Fury of the first (1cp): Any phase. Chosen terminator unit, until the end of phase add +1 to hit rolls.

Chaplain Litany: Resitation of focus: select a friendly unit within 6”, +1 to hit roll for ranged weapons (I believe this is only if they target the closest enemy unit)

Looking at that 'leak' list, there is a lot of stuff that's flatly wrong. Successor tactics, for example, aren't a founding trait + one other trait, nor are crimson fists the same as the WD version.

So reader beware.

**ERJAK**

Tiberius501 wrote:
I have a question. Is the War Suit worth taking over a second Redemptor?

If you're taking the warsuit, you're taking 3, along with some other infiltrators/scouting units. Juat taking one Warsuit is donating 130+ pts to your opponent.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crusaderobr wrote:
I am shocked. They actually gave space marine players point reductions, custom successor chapters, buffs and new strategems ( rapid fire 2 bolt rifles anyone? ). Auto bolt rifles assault 3 all the time? LOL WTF thats awsome! 3 wound Aggressors are actually worth taking now, stick 3 in a repulsor executioner or 5 in the Repulsor. Heck yes. 6 Hellblasters in a shield dome Impulsor is a staple now.

I wouldn't say staple and I wouldn't say 6 Hellblasters, 5 hellblasters and a naked captain would likely be better.

The problem is that that's still more than 200pts of models in what is essentially a tin can. The competitive pricing makes the strategy viable for sure, perhaps even competitive, but even a 4++ is not that hard to break.

If you were going for impulsor/transport based list you'd want at least 5 total transports and enough chaff scouts to protect your deployment zone from things like bloodletter bombs or Slaanesh units that encircle a transport and prevent disembarkation.

TL: DR, If you're buying new transports, buy a couple.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.

My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.

That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!

Nope. Chaplain prayers go off at the start of the battle round. Deepstrike units can't benefit.

**Luke_Prowler**

ERJAK wrote:
Kdash wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.

My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.

That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!

Nope. Chaplain prayers go off at the start of the battle round. Deepstrike units can't benefit.

My understanding was that the Chaplain can only attempt to use a litany at the start of the battle round, the aura is still in effect once that's done. So a chaplain can still effect a deepstiking unit, as long as the effect doesn't require picking a unit once the litany is cast.

**aracersss**

if anyone forgot ...

Spoiler:

**Elbows**

Yes, depending on the litanies effect, auras would obviously still work fine.

**Sterling191**

aracersss wrote:
if anyone forgot ...

Spoiler:

... Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count
as also having moved?
A: Yes.

"Counts as having moved" and "Counts as having moved X inches" are two wildly differing things.

Relevant quote from the BRB:

Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn. Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons.

**Galef**

Good catch on the units disembarking not being able to move. But I'd hardly call it situational. Being able to hide your dudes in a T7, 4++ vehicle that can then place them ~18" (14" move + 3" disembark + base width) forward first turn is still really good.

-

**Tibs Ironblood**

Yeah the transport is really solid for the hellblaster boys. It's got some pew pew with an ironhail and two SBs and with a 4++ it's pretty durable I'd think. Pretty solid for getting your hellblasters into position, playing alongside more aggressive builds and of course just charging it into things to die them up or eat overwatch. Also as an added bonus it'd make a solid screening unit against DS due to the -2 to charge it.

**Rogerio134134**

I've not seen anyone mention the chapter master stratagem? I really just want to get Primaris Pedro to lead my force anyway as I've already converted a model for him!

**bananathug**

If the impulsor held 12 I would be excited about it. 6 hellblasters and a box for 300 points doesn't seem that effective to me for what it is going to cost.

Hellblasters still die T2 and if they are just going to show up-pew and then die you might as well bring inceptors (killing a 3 wound model on a modified roll of 1 while overcharging makes me soooooo salty) as they get more offensive out-put for less points and you don't need to spend 100points/$$ to get them where they want to be without dying t1.

**ERJAK**

bananathug wrote:
If the impulsor held 12 I would be excited about it. 6 hellblasters and a box for 300 points doesn't seem that effective to me for what it is going to cost.

Hellblasters still die T2 and if they are just going to show up-pew and then die you might as well bring inceptors (killing a 3 wound model on a modified roll of 1 while overcharging makes me soooooo salty) as they get more offensive out-put for less points and you don't need to spend 100points/$$ to get them where they want to be without dying t1.

That's the big weakness of the impulsor.

It's a brilliantly designed, well costed model...that really doesn't have anything to transport. Hellblasters have a 30" range anway, most primaris stuff deepstrikes or infiltrates and intercessors don't matter enough to spend a transport on.

If it could hold aggressors then I'd buy 6 (because having 3 makes the next 3 a lot better and hellblasters would be worth it at that point) as it stands though, it's a good model without a purpose in life.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Luke_Prowler wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Kdash wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.

My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.

That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!

Nope. Chaplain prayers go off at the start of the battle round. Deepstrike units can't benefit.

My understanding was that the Chaplain can only attempt to use a litany at the start of the battle round, the aura is still in effect once that's done. So a chaplain can still effect a deepstiking unit, as long as the effect doesn't require picking a unit once the litany is cast.

I actually read that as chaplain deepstriking as well, which would not work.

Yes, you could use the new chaplain that way and when it works, it'll be awesome. It's definitely not always gonna work though, especially with more sniper than ever kicking around the tables.

**Crusaderobr**

Impulsor with hellblasters inside is good if you also play with redemptor dreads, the new one or repulsor/repulsor executioner or aircraft in your lists. Your opponent might be tempted to shoot the Impulsor and kill the hellblasters that pour out instead of your other armor that you want to keep alive, and when they do, you have the shield dome. Id rather them shoot my shield dome with their anti tank high str guns instead of my Redemptor Dreads/repulsor any day of the week...

**Galef**

Crusaderobr wrote:
Impulsor with hellblasters inside is good if you also play with redemptor dreads, the new one or repulsor/repulsor executioner or aircraft in your lists. Your opponent might be tempted to shoot the Impulsor and kill the hellblasters that pour out instead of your other armor that you want to keep alive, and when they do, you have the shield dome. Id rather them shoot my shield dome with their anti tank high str guns instead of my Redemptor Dreads/repulsor any day of the week...

Bingo. If your opponent has units that are more effective at killing infantry than vehicles, they may aim their anti-tank weapons as the Impulsors first to allow those units to pew-pew them, thereby leaving you Dreads, Repulsors, etc that much more alive for next turn.

IMO, the only downside to any of this is that the existence of the Impulsor really makes Marines want to go all mech (but it's subjective if that's even a downside)

-

**TwilightSparkles**

With the move rule for transports, interestingly White Dwarf that's out this week has a column by Jervis discussing how people are often making understanding rules harder than they should because they aren't using them RAW or reading it wholly in context - taking single sentences.

Models disembarking with heavy weapons would count as moving , but otherwise those models can act as stated.

**Insularum**

BaconCatBug wrote:
OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
Okay, so I haven't done too much digging because I'm worried about the results.

But did GW forget the Emperor's Spears exist in the codex?
Like did we get any updates the their tactic? Or even a mention?
Emperor's Spears don't exist "in the codex", they were a 1 card tactic and nothing more. I guarantee they won't get any update.

The Spears have been buffed, they are now a successor chapter with their entire old chapter trait as one of the two picks you can take from the create your own menu. No stratagems/characters/relics/traits are lost and you gain all the new tools.

**BrianDavion**

Insularum wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
Okay, so I haven't done too much digging because I'm worried about the results.

But did GW forget the Emperor's Spears exist in the codex?
Like did we get any updates the their tactic? Or even a mention?
Emperor's Spears don't exist "in the codex", they were a 1 card tactic and nothing more. I guarantee they won't get any update.

The Spears have been buffed, they are now a successor chapter with their entire old chapter trait as one of the two picks you can take from the create your own menu. No stratagems/characters/relics/traits are lost and you gain all the new tools.

they're al;so an ultramarines sucessor so could if they wanted to just use the sweet sweet ultramarines rules.

**BaconCatBug**

TwilightSparkles wrote:
With the move rule for transports, interestingly White Dwarf that's out this week has a column by Jervis discussing how people are often making understanding rules harder than they should because they aren't using them RAW or reading it wholly in context - taking single sentences.

Models disembarking with heavy weapons would count as moving , but otherwise those models can act as stated.

Maybe Jervis should spend less time complaining and more time writing rules properly? Or, because he's proven over decades he can't, spend time hiring someone who can?