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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
YAY!

I kinda want to make a Bike Captain just to have now. Honestly, the Twin Bolter and a Storm Bolter would be pretty killer for a Crimson Fists Captain.

.. that'd be disgusting. DO EEEEEET!

On it, boss! I wonder if I can find a holstered Storm Bolter so I can give him a Power Fist for good measure.

 Galas wrote:
For all people complaining about the price of the new dreadnought here you can have a proxy alternative

Spoiler:

https://www.amazon.es/Playmobil-9251-figura-juguete-Multicolor/dp/B06X42PQ9R/ref=asc_df_B06X42PQ9R/?tag=googshopes-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=199026567054&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12912772840106198098&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=20288&hvtargid=pla-395699618804&psc=1

Spoiler:

Are you really suggesting Playmobil to play 40k ? Like, for real ?

He is making fun of the new model, obviously.

Galas wrote:
For all people complaining about the price of the new dreadnought here you can have a proxy alternative

Spoiler:


Spoiler:

That is fookin brilliant
Made my morning.

That is quality

Its not the only primaris model that is toy like.

I confused to what the ironhail prefix is supposed to denote.
At first I thought it meant better AP, as apparently ironhail stubbers have -1 AP instead of nothing, but ironhail autocannons are an extra shot over normal autocannons, with no additional change to the autocannon statline, whilst the ironhail stubbers stay at 3 shots.

Make up your mind GW, does ironhail give an extra shot or more AP?

Does anyone know what kind of options will be on the table for regular Lieutenants and Terminator Ancients? I have a couple models designed and want to be sure before I buy more parts that I don't need. One Lieutenant with a Stormbolter and Master Crafted Bolter, the other with Thunder Hammer, Power Sword and Jump Pack? Anyone know if still a legal loadout?

I doubt Leuitenants will have lost options

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt Leuitenants will have lost options

I'm more thinking of the regular Lieutenants due to them not having official models, and just checking that some of the more silly options, like stormbolter/master crafted bolter, are still legal.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I confused to what the ironhail prefix is supposed to denote.
At first I thought it meant better AP, as apparently ironhail stubbers have -1 AP instead of nothing, but ironhail autocannons are an extra shot over normal autocannons, with no additional change to the autocannon statline, whilst the ironhail stubbers stay at 3 shots.

Make up your mind GW, does ironhail give an extra shot or more AP?

It’s just an M&S style extra adjective to sound cool and dangerous. “This is not just a stubber; it’s a Cawl-crafted, belt-fed Ironhail Heavy Stubber...” <gentle wah was guitar music>

 Deadshot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt Leuitenants will have lost options

I'm more thinking of the regular Lieutenants due to them not having official models, and just checking that some of the more silly options, like stormbolter/master crafted bolter, are still legal.

From one of the Youtube videos showing all the datasheets, the Lieutenants appear to be the same as in the previous Codex Space Marines. I'm not sure how you get both stormbolter and master-crafted bolter though, as even the old Codex doesn't allow that in the way I read it - I can only see an option for one gun and not two.

BrianDavion wrote:
actually there is a old marine Leuitenant kit, the old space marine commander kit. it's not called a captain but a commander. so.. yeah doable.

Actually, you can't. The only way the Commander can be assembled from the box is with aiguillettes and cape. If you look at primaris officers, no lieutenant out of dozen we have so far has either, both are found only on primaris captains (and that's the bits you can't avoid, helmet, backpack, and iron halo also obviously point at captain). So, yeah, while you can call Commander model a lieutenant it would be just as unfluffy as chaplain without a skull helmet and crozius or librarian without a hood/force weapon. The only way to make squat Lt is 100% kitbash from something fancy-but-not-too-fancy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Cool, where I can buy ogryn bodyguard box?

You know GW used to list the Ogryn box 4 times on the webstore, one of them being Ogryn Bodyguard w/2 other Ogryn, right?

And don't deny no mini = no rules. I know you dislike me, but arguing against such a thing just makes you look foolish.

If you mean the Nork Deddog box, you got the wrong one. I mean generic ogryn bodyguard, which is (like GK grand master in a walker or squatmarine lieutenant, two units you probably excised from my post because you were unable to find anything like it in GW store) a unit with no model whatsoever and you're supposed to make it from whatever bits you have on hand. Here, look at kitbash GW made and tell me with a straight face it resembles anything they have on their web store:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/29/regimental-focus-armageddon-sep29gw-homepage-post-2/

Also, I don't recall ever saying I dislike you so I'd appreciate not putting fiction in my mouth. If I dislike anything, it's arguments that are plainly and demonstrably falsified with available evidence, and if there is anything making one look foolish, it's repeating these ad nauseam after they were debunked hundreds of times already.

That Ogryn Bodyguard is built from the bits in the Ogryn box. I don't notice anything that would count as converting.

OrkPlayer137 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt Leuitenants will have lost options

I'm more thinking of the regular Lieutenants due to them not having official models, and just checking that some of the more silly options, like stormbolter/master crafted bolter, are still legal.

From one of the Youtube videos showing all the datasheets, the Lieutenants appear to be the same as in the previous Codex Space Marines. I'm not sure how you get both stormbolter and master-crafted bolter though, as even the old Codex doesn't allow that in the way I read it - I can only see an option for one gun and not two.

Whoops! Don't know how I've misread my own spreadsheet but thanks for that! Somehow weapons got mixed up on the sheet! Thanks for the save!

 Irbis wrote:

If you mean the Nork Deddog box, you got the wrong one. I mean generic ogryn bodyguard, which is (like GK grand master in a walker or squatmarine lieutenant, two units you probably excised from my post because you were unable to find anything like it in GW store) a unit with no model whatsoever and you're supposed to make it from whatever bits you have on hand. Here, look at kitbash GW made and tell me with a straight face it resembles anything they have on their web store:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/29/regimental-focus-armageddon-sep29gw-homepage-post-2/

Also, I don't recall ever saying I dislike you so I'd appreciate not putting fiction in my mouth. If I dislike anything, it's arguments that are plainly and demonstrably falsified with available evidence, and if there is anything making one look foolish, it's repeating these ad nauseam after they were debunked hundreds of times already.

Not that I have to much skin in this fight, but as was posted earlier, all the stuff that comes from that Ogryn Bodyguard is found in the Ogryn Kit. Also, the Grand Master on Dreadknight is an interesting exception, and if you'll recall when it was released people were excited and speculating that maybe GW was going away from the No Model No Rules policy. Turns out, it was just a hiccup. That said, they did a white dwarf article when it was released explaining how to convert one using the Dreadknight kit and Grandmaster Voldus (or whatever his name is). Even with all of that, though, you can build the GM DK and the regular marine LT out of the existing plastic kits. For the GM DK, all of the options are in the kit and for the SM LT, pretty much all of the options are in the tactical marine kit. Sure, they may not look how you think they should look (i.e. fancier than their 'regular' counterparts), but GW makes stuff all the time that looks different than I think it should look (see the entire AoS line) but that's irrelevant because it's so subjective. With things like the GM DK and the LT, it's easy enough to give them a few extra purity seals, spend a few more moments on the paint job and jobs a good 'un.

I find Sternguard legs are quite good for lieutenants ( on Primaris). Add to that the Commander Torso and some higher bling shoulder pads and that looks ornate enough for it to work

ThatMG wrote:

Spoiler:

ERJAK wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I bet you could take the extra armor panel from the Redemptor Dreadnought and use it to better enclose the cockpit of the Invictor. Probably literally placing it right over the roll cage.

Which would be a terrible design for a stealth suit and is why they left it out in the first place. The whole point of the dam thing is that it's supposed to be surprise attacking people out of cover and taking them by surprise. The marine inside has his armor on which should be plenty. This thing isn't SUPPOSED to be taking the type of return fire that would require a full dreadnought plate covering and so traded it out to be lighter and faster. If he's being led by a halfway decent commander it should always be more of a benefit than a liability to not have that heavy front plate.

I swear, people whine all the time about 40k units not making tactical sense and then they design a unit that looks perfectly reasonable for the thing they're trying to get it to do and suddenly everbody wants to slap impractical nonsense onto it.

Hey we should give it a spoiler and a subwoofer too, since we don't care about making less noise anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

ThatMG wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

ThatMG wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Don't forget nothing in the Indexes get Shock Assault or Angels of Death.

I wish GW would just make Indexes Narrative Play only and be done with it.

You use Datasheet = Codex, Index = Wargear. So you get your ability.
If you using one that doesn't exist you can get your rules RAI/HIWPI.

The hate Index gets is weird, their official rules as of yet no word has come from GW to the effect of "you can no longer use Index"

This is something I was wondering about. I have a venerable dreadnought with autocannons. I was thinking it would still get all of the new rules since the unit's datasheet is in the new codex even though the weapon options are from the index. My friend has a chaplain on bike which does not have a datasheet in the new codex, so if he took that as an index entry he would lose doctrines.

The one exception is when you have drastically different rules. The example of that chaplain wouldn't get new prayers. Unless both players agreed.
What goes into the RAI of "Most important rule" basically if both players agree your "toy soldiers can do anything you want them to."

Index only options tend to has stupid points cost that are way higher than they should be anyway. Also it is totally RAI for units to get abilities as you use codex datasheet for rules/stats and index for wargear that is how the official chart tells you how to play. With updated points costs.

This sentiment is exactly why I don't get any of the hate at all. You don't like something? Don't include it in your games. They're *your* toy soldiers. You're one conversation with the person you're playing with from having exactly the game and rules you want. Unless you're a tourney player I just don't get all the hate that spews about whenever new rules/codices are dropped.

It's because most people who go out of their way to use index options tend to do so in order to bring stuff that has become busted over time.

except we’ve had 2 years worth of tournies basically showing the index has nothing busted.
Having a bigmek not in mega Armour isn’t busted
Having a warlord in mega Armour or on bike isn’t busted
It just lack of options on themed lists.
The most busted thing irks have isn’t index it’s a relic from a campaign and units from the codex.

I'd actually be ok if GW stopped supporting Index UNITs that are no longer in the Codex, but I think they would be wise to continue supporting Index OPTIONS.

I can understand GW's policy of "no model, no rules" from a business standpoint, but options that still exist and are in the Codex as a whole should still be available on models that couls once take them. Twin-Autocannons on Dreads, basically all Autarch wargear options, etc. Those encourage good hobbying, which GW should be on board with.

Just seen some pics of the UM and WS psychic powers, and i have a question due to not having seen the reviews yet... :facepallm:

Do Successor Chapters get access to the Chapter psychic powers, or not?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I confused to what the ironhail prefix is supposed to denote.
At first I thought it meant better AP, as apparently ironhail stubbers have -1 AP instead of nothing, but ironhail autocannons are an extra shot over normal autocannons, with no additional change to the autocannon statline, whilst the ironhail stubbers stay at 3 shots.

Make up your mind GW, does ironhail give an extra shot or more AP?

It’s just an M&S style extra adjective to sound cool and dangerous. “This is not just a stubber; it’s a Cawl-crafted, belt-fed Ironhail Heavy Stubber...” <gentle wah was guitar music>

I understand that about it, its just that from a game design standpoint its a terrible convention to have. I can imagine people making mistakes about the weapon profile, as they'll either give the Iron Hail stubber 4 shots or the Ironhail Autocannon Ap -2, on the basis that as they have the same "prefix", they must have the same special "modifier"

Kdash wrote:
Just seen some pics of the UM and WS psychic powers, and i have a question due to not having seen the reviews yet... :facepallm:

Do Successor Chapters get access to the Chapter psychic powers, or not?

From what I've seen, it you decided to be a Successor from a specific first founding, you do get to use their Strats, WL traits & Powers (maybe Relics?). But you have to select one of the Successor trait abilities associated with that Chapter.

If, however, you decided to mix/match 2 Successor traits with no affiliation with a first founding, you do not get any of those

-

 Galef wrote:

Kdash wrote:
Just seen some pics of the UM and WS psychic powers, and i have a question due to not having seen the reviews yet... :facepallm:

Do Successor Chapters get access to the Chapter psychic powers, or not?

From what I've seen, it you decided to be a Successor from a specific first founding, you do get to use their Strats, WL traits & Powers (maybe Relics?). But you have to select one of the Successor trait abilities associated with that Chapter.

If, however, you decided to mix/match 2 Successor traits with no affiliation with a first founding, you do not get any of those

-

So its Pick 1 Successor trait, plus 1 First Founding Trait OR an additional Successor trait? And the first founding themselves just get their own first founding trait?

 Deadshot wrote:

So its Pick 1 Successor trait, plus 1 First Founding Trait OR an additional Successor trait? And the first founding themselves just get their own first founding trait?

Sort of. I have not seen the book yet, but from what I have seen of screen shots and on the Warhammer community, all first founding traits have 2 parts.
Salamanders, for example, have reroll 1 hit and 1 wound AND AP-1 counts as AP-0
A Salamanders successor would retain the reroll 1 hit and 1 wound part, but select another Successor trait, like +3 to ranged weapons

That successor would still count as SALAMANDERS for a bunch of rules (unclear which, but pretty sure Strats are included)

But if you mix-match 2 Successor traits without selecting one that is specific to a First founding, you do not get to count as that first founding for any rules

-

 Galef wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

So its Pick 1 Successor trait, plus 1 First Founding Trait OR an additional Successor trait? And the first founding themselves just get their own first founding trait?

Sort of. I have not seen the book yet, but from what I have seen of screen shots and on the Warhammer community, all first founding traits have 2 parts.
Salamanders, for example, have reroll 1 hit and 1 wound AND AP-1 counts as AP-0
A Salamanders successor would retain the reroll 1 hit and 1 wound part, but select another Successor trait, like +3 to ranged weapons

That successor would still count as SALAMANDERS for a bunch of rules (unclear which, but pretty sure Strats are included)

But if you mix-match 2 Successor traits without selecting one that is specific to a First founding, you do not get to count as that first founding for any rules

-

This is not correct. A successor chapter does not have to have any part of the chapter tactics of their founding chapter to 'count as' that chapter (as a successor). Black Templars, one of the most known successor chapters is a prime example of this. Also, some founding chapter tactics aren't even represented in the successor lists which would make your statement further false. For example, there are no Imperial Fists chapter tactic parts in the successor section.

It's spelled out in the Ultramarine and White Scars supplement. A player can pick any two chapter tactics and call it a successor of any founding chapter. Page 56, White Scars supplement (emphasis mine), "If the successor Chapter you have chosen does not have a known founding Chapter but has the Inheritors of the Primarch Successor Tactic and you selected the Chapter Tactic of a First Founding Chapter, your chosen Chapter is a successor of that First Founding Chapter. Otherwise, choose a founding Chapter that best fits your successor Chapter's character."

This is saying a player can't take the Ultramarines Chapter tactic via Inheritors and claim they are then a White Scars successor. But a player could choose any two (non-Inheritors) tactics from the list and then choose their first founding.

A successor chapter gets access to stratagems (further explained on page 56), warlord traits, psychic powers, and special-issue wargear (which is the 'generic' relic section). So they lose access to main relics. Although there is a stratagem that can be taken that allows a successor one relic from the main section of their first founding chapter.

Yeah that makes far more sense. I just got the impression from them saying you had to pick a first founding Chapter

It's only a requirement to choose a first founding chapter if those extra supplement choices are used. But competitively speaking, there's no reason not to. A player would lose out on an entire supplement of extra options.

I can certainly see players playing narrative or casual games with chapters that have no known first founding chapter and accordingly don't use any supplement options.

I think they've also designed the books so that you can still play as a First Founding (or Successor) without needing the Chapter Supplements. I like that you don't HAVE to get the UM book to play UM. But as you say, why wouldn't you?

-

 Irbis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
actually there is a old marine Leuitenant kit, the old space marine commander kit. it's not called a captain but a commander. so.. yeah doable.

Actually, you can't. The only way the Commander can be assembled from the box is with aiguillettes and cape. If you look at primaris officers, no lieutenant out of dozen we have so far has either, both are found only on primaris captains (and that's the bits you can't avoid, helmet, backpack, and iron halo also obviously point at captain).

The artwork for the complete Ultramarines Second Company in the original 8th Edition Codex shows a non-Primaris lieutenant. It uses the backpack from the Space Marine Commander model, and possibly the front of the torso, but doesn't have the cloak.

For mine, I used Vael Donatus from Kill Team Cassius, but with different arms and the Commander backpack without the iron halo.