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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I paid £12 for my Vanguard Librarian. I wonder how much the actual kit will be.

And he's £30 in Aussie-Money.

Seems like I got a good deal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I paid £12 for my Vanguard Librarian. I wonder how much the actual kit will be.

And he's £30 in Aussie-Money.

Seems like I got a good deal.

Jeez, I got two(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him) for even less than that!

WhiteDog wrote:

It is pretty clear that DA/BA and SW are not going to have codex "supplements". They will get full fledged codexes, and GW is doing so in order to completly separate those different flavor of marines (because it is just better from a business standpoint, even if it is weird from a rule standpoint). And the best proof we have of that is that DA/BA/SW don't get doctrines - if a codex 2.0 gets out, those chapters will most likely get their own specific doctrines, cementing the differences between chapters.

That isn't clear at all. Getting their own variant or even special snowflake doctrines is easily within the bounds of a supplement book (given that both so far do exactly that: provide additional doctrine modifiers). Its no harder there than in a completely separate codex, and gives rules to the 'differences' between chapters just fine.
But as far as business goes, getting money from base codex ($40) + supplement ($30) is more than getting money from special snowflake codex ($40). $30+$40 > $40.

As far as Angels and Wolves not getting doctrines in the 'datasheets for new models' PDFs, that isn't proof of anything beyond an unwillingness to do major rules mechanics in a free download. Which isn't exactly a shock.

Voss wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

It is pretty clear that DA/BA and SW are not going to have codex "supplements". They will get full fledged codexes, and GW is doing so in order to completly separate those different flavor of marines (because it is just better from a business standpoint, even if it is weird from a rule standpoint). And the best proof we have of that is that DA/BA/SW don't get doctrines - if a codex 2.0 gets out, those chapters will most likely get their own specific doctrines, cementing the differences between chapters.

That isn't clear at all. Getting their own variant or even special snowflake doctrines is easily within the bounds of a supplement book (given that both so far do exactly that: provide additional doctrine modifiers). Its no harder there than in a completely separate codex, and gives rules to the 'differences' between chapters just fine.
But as far as business goes, getting money from base codex ($40) + supplement ($30) is more than getting money from special snowflake codex ($40). $30+$40 > $40.

As far as Angels and Wolves not getting doctrines in the 'datasheets for new models' PDFs, that isn't proof of anything beyond an unwillingness to do major rules mechanics in a free download. Which isn't exactly a shock.

No I think it's pretty clear BAs, DAs SWs are keeping their own codex. GW would have mentioned the intent to "supplementize them" and honestly there's not much point in it anyway. perhaps the snowflake chapters should be best viewed as "stand alone supplements"

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

It is pretty clear that DA/BA and SW are not going to have codex "supplements". They will get full fledged codexes, and GW is doing so in order to completly separate those different flavor of marines (because it is just better from a business standpoint, even if it is weird from a rule standpoint). And the best proof we have of that is that DA/BA/SW don't get doctrines - if a codex 2.0 gets out, those chapters will most likely get their own specific doctrines, cementing the differences between chapters.

That isn't clear at all. Getting their own variant or even special snowflake doctrines is easily within the bounds of a supplement book (given that both so far do exactly that: provide additional doctrine modifiers). Its no harder there than in a completely separate codex, and gives rules to the 'differences' between chapters just fine.
But as far as business goes, getting money from base codex ($40) + supplement ($30) is more than getting money from special snowflake codex ($40). $30+$40 > $40.

As far as Angels and Wolves not getting doctrines in the 'datasheets for new models' PDFs, that isn't proof of anything beyond an unwillingness to do major rules mechanics in a free download. Which isn't exactly a shock.

No I think it's pretty clear BAs, DAs SWs are keeping their own codex. GW would have mentioned the intent to "supplementize them" and honestly there's not much point in it anyway. perhaps the snowflake chapters should be best viewed as "stand alone supplements"

You're going to have to explain what makes it 'pretty clear.'

GW not mentioning future plans isn't evidence. It's still pretty standard operating procedure, beyond hints in cropped images of individual model bits and vague videos.

As for 'not much point,' yeah, there is. There really obviously is, given that they just did three separate pdfs to catch people up on changes. They can modify the basic Codex once for common things, rather than 5-6 times, and only once for special snowflake things (that being stuff exclusive to a particular chapter supplement). That's far less of a pain in the backside for everyone, including them.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

We all know the rules about touch other people’s models... as grim and solemn as those consequences are.

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

It is pretty clear that DA/BA and SW are not going to have codex "supplements". They will get full fledged codexes, and GW is doing so in order to completly separate those different flavor of marines (because it is just better from a business standpoint, even if it is weird from a rule standpoint). And the best proof we have of that is that DA/BA/SW don't get doctrines - if a codex 2.0 gets out, those chapters will most likely get their own specific doctrines, cementing the differences between chapters.

That isn't clear at all. Getting their own variant or even special snowflake doctrines is easily within the bounds of a supplement book (given that both so far do exactly that: provide additional doctrine modifiers). Its no harder there than in a completely separate codex, and gives rules to the 'differences' between chapters just fine.
But as far as business goes, getting money from base codex ($40) + supplement ($30) is more than getting money from special snowflake codex ($40). $30+$40 > $40.

As far as Angels and Wolves not getting doctrines in the 'datasheets for new models' PDFs, that isn't proof of anything beyond an unwillingness to do major rules mechanics in a free download. Which isn't exactly a shock.

No I think it's pretty clear BAs, DAs SWs are keeping their own codex. GW would have mentioned the intent to "supplementize them" and honestly there's not much point in it anyway. perhaps the snowflake chapters should be best viewed as "stand alone supplements"

You're going to have to explain what makes it 'pretty clear.'

GW not mentioning future plans isn't evidence. It's still pretty standard operating procedure, beyond hints in cropped images of individual model bits and vague videos.

As for 'not much point,' yeah, there is. There really obviously is, given that they just did three separate pdfs to catch people up on changes. They can modify the basic Codex once for common things, rather than 5-6 times, and only once for special snowflake things (that being stuff exclusive to a particular chapter supplement). That's far less of a pain in the backside for everyone, including them.

pretty sure they'd have advertised a new way of doing things. Ignoring Space Wolves for a moment (we all agree they're the most divergant, let's look at the Dark angels a moment shall we? (I say this because they're the MOST codex of the chapters)

A Dark Angels supplement would give the strats, psykic powers etc. but their supplement would have 5 special characters, and a DOZEN seperate units. that might be a bit much to add into a supplement, I mean There are a few core codices that lack a dozen units of their own. So at this point it's proably worth while giving dark angels their own codex. which as I said are essentially stand alone supplements

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

He knew what the consequences were.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

He knew what the consequences were.

I am sooo glad my sister's dog (whom I dog sit for bi-weekly) has no intreast in my minis.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

He knew what the consequences were.

I am sooo glad my sister's dog (whom I dog sit for bi-weekly) has no intreast in my minis.

He is the worst. He has 100 million toys to play with, but Lego, 40K, or Gundam parts? Those are where it is at, apparently.

Anyway, looking at the Invictor, I am really surprised that there are no parts shared between it and the Redemptor.

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

It is pretty clear that DA/BA and SW are not going to have codex "supplements". They will get full fledged codexes, and GW is doing so in order to completly separate those different flavor of marines (because it is just better from a business standpoint, even if it is weird from a rule standpoint). And the best proof we have of that is that DA/BA/SW don't get doctrines - if a codex 2.0 gets out, those chapters will most likely get their own specific doctrines, cementing the differences between chapters.

That isn't clear at all. Getting their own variant or even special snowflake doctrines is easily within the bounds of a supplement book (given that both so far do exactly that: provide additional doctrine modifiers). Its no harder there than in a completely separate codex, and gives rules to the 'differences' between chapters just fine.
But as far as business goes, getting money from base codex ($40) + supplement ($30) is more than getting money from special snowflake codex ($40). $30+$40 > $40.

As far as Angels and Wolves not getting doctrines in the 'datasheets for new models' PDFs, that isn't proof of anything beyond an unwillingness to do major rules mechanics in a free download. Which isn't exactly a shock.

No I think it's pretty clear BAs, DAs SWs are keeping their own codex. GW would have mentioned the intent to "supplementize them" and honestly there's not much point in it anyway. perhaps the snowflake chapters should be best viewed as "stand alone supplements"

You're going to have to explain what makes it 'pretty clear.'

GW not mentioning future plans isn't evidence. It's still pretty standard operating procedure, beyond hints in cropped images of individual model bits and vague videos.

As for 'not much point,' yeah, there is. There really obviously is, given that they just did three separate pdfs to catch people up on changes. They can modify the basic Codex once for common things, rather than 5-6 times, and only once for special snowflake things (that being stuff exclusive to a particular chapter supplement). That's far less of a pain in the backside for everyone, including them.

pretty sure they'd have advertised a new way of doing things. Ignoring Space Wolves for a moment (we all agree they're the most divergant, let's look at the Dark angels a moment shall we? (I say this because they're the MOST codex of the chapters)

A Dark Angels supplement would give the strats, psykic powers etc. but their supplement would have 5 special characters, and a DOZEN seperate units. that might be a bit much to add into a supplement, I mean There are a few core codices that lack a dozen units of their own. So at this point it's proably worth while giving dark angels their own codex. which as I said are essentially stand alone supplements

17? Depending on layout, that's probably 7-9 pages. The WS supplement is 64 pages, the Ultra's is 80 pages (which has 12 datasheets, so 17 for DA is not a lot more). I think they can manage to fit 5 more datasheets into the DA supplement and match it to the Ultra's page count.

As much as I’d love for the non-codex chapters to be roled into supplements, (blood angels follow the codex so they’d make plenty of sense) I have a feeling it’s going to be new codexes.

Space Wolves especially, as every single unit is slightly different in some way, they wouldn’t be able to be squeezed into a supplement.

However I do think we’ll get our own Doctrines, or something in the place of them, and our own litanies and new relics and all that fun jazz. Just hope it’s not too far off. In the meantime I’m still happy I got +1 attack for all my bros, and that my Inceptors went up to 3 wounds.

the fact that they DIDN'T give the snowflake chapters litanies does add weight to the idea that they'll get their own ones.

BrianDavion wrote:
the fact that they DIDN'T give the snowflake chapters litanies does add weight to the idea that they'll get their own ones.

I agree. This errata feels like a stop-gap until BA/DA/SW get their own supplement that replaces thier existing Codices

-

I think Grey Knights deserve a look at well before the other three.

BrianDavion wrote:
and a DOZEN seperate units

All are obsolastartes though, no unique primaris units, am I right? See where this goes?

Crimson wrote:This is a result of having a separate codices for variant chapters. Sometimes you get more rules, sometimes you get less rules. If you want all the same stuff than Vanilla marines and at the same time, then you need to join the rest of us in that one book and become a subset of that codex just like Black Templars.

Slaul wrote:

To continue your analogy the siblings in this case are non-identical twins. They share a 'birthday'. All of the non-codex compliant chapters are still Space Marines.

Nah. The Ultras and Sallies are twins. DA don't share the birthday. Sorry.

That's a pretty jacked up thing to say. I wouldnt even say the UM are anyone's twin...except for BL.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and a DOZEN seperate units

All are obsolastartes though, no unique primaris units, am I right? See where this goes?

no Because I'm not one of the people running around wearing a tinfoil hat screaming "OLD MARINES ARE GOING AWAY IN A YEAR!" because the evidance is overwhelmingly that they're not going anywhere

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

He knew what the consequences were.

I am sooo glad my sister's dog (whom I dog sit for bi-weekly) has no intreast in my minis.

He is the worst. He has 100 million toys to play with, but Lego, 40K, or Gundam parts? Those are where it is at, apparently.

Anyway, looking at the Invictor, I am really surprised that there are no parts shared between it and the Redemptor.

Sacrifice the Gundam parts to keep the important two safe.

 Dysartes wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
(my puppy grabbed one off my table so I had to replace him)

You replaced your puppy?!

He knew what the consequences were.

I am sooo glad my sister's dog (whom I dog sit for bi-weekly) has no intreast in my minis.

He is the worst. He has 100 million toys to play with, but Lego, 40K, or Gundam parts? Those are where it is at, apparently.

Anyway, looking at the Invictor, I am really surprised that there are no parts shared between it and the Redemptor.

Sacrifice the Gundam parts to keep the important two safe.

If you think GW is expensive, try Premium Bandai kits.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I think Grey Knights deserve a look at well before the other three.

I think Space Wolves should‘ve been first. They played Index the longest. With the rest staggered out by as long as they had a Codex pre-Space Wolves with CSM and finally Codex Marines last. That would‘ve been the fairest approach.

I wonder what the next supplement is...

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

It is pretty clear that DA/BA and SW are not going to have codex "supplements". They will get full fledged codexes, and GW is doing so in order to completly separate those different flavor of marines (because it is just better from a business standpoint, even if it is weird from a rule standpoint). And the best proof we have of that is that DA/BA/SW don't get doctrines - if a codex 2.0 gets out, those chapters will most likely get their own specific doctrines, cementing the differences between chapters.

That isn't clear at all. Getting their own variant or even special snowflake doctrines is easily within the bounds of a supplement book (given that both so far do exactly that: provide additional doctrine modifiers). Its no harder there than in a completely separate codex, and gives rules to the 'differences' between chapters just fine.
But as far as business goes, getting money from base codex ($40) + supplement ($30) is more than getting money from special snowflake codex ($40). $30+$40 > $40.

As far as Angels and Wolves not getting doctrines in the 'datasheets for new models' PDFs, that isn't proof of anything beyond an unwillingness to do major rules mechanics in a free download. Which isn't exactly a shock.

No I think it's pretty clear BAs, DAs SWs are keeping their own codex. GW would have mentioned the intent to "supplementize them" and honestly there's not much point in it anyway. perhaps the snowflake chapters should be best viewed as "stand alone supplements"

You're going to have to explain what makes it 'pretty clear.'

GW not mentioning future plans isn't evidence. It's still pretty standard operating procedure, beyond hints in cropped images of individual model bits and vague videos.

As for 'not much point,' yeah, there is. There really obviously is, given that they just did three separate pdfs to catch people up on changes. They can modify the basic Codex once for common things, rather than 5-6 times, and only once for special snowflake things (that being stuff exclusive to a particular chapter supplement). That's far less of a pain in the backside for everyone, including them.

pretty sure they'd have advertised a new way of doing things. Ignoring Space Wolves for a moment (we all agree they're the most divergant, let's look at the Dark angels a moment shall we? (I say this because they're the MOST codex of the chapters)

A Dark Angels supplement would give the strats, psykic powers etc. but their supplement would have 5 special characters, and a DOZEN seperate units. that might be a bit much to add into a supplement, I mean There are a few core codices that lack a dozen units of their own. So at this point it's proably worth while giving dark angels their own codex. which as I said are essentially stand alone supplements

17? Depending on layout, that's probably 7-9 pages. The WS supplement is 64 pages, the Ultra's is 80 pages (which has 12 datasheets, so 17 for DA is not a lot more). I think they can manage to fit 5 more datasheets into the DA supplement and match it to the Ultra's page count.

I did mention it a bit back, but on the price side of it, it’s more $40+$40 for DA,BA,SW.
GW mentioned that they can use all the units in the new Codex, so to get the best out of your armies, you need to buy the SM book too.
But yeah I just don’t see them getting rid, when they can make more money by keeping them as separates..

thats another thing, do DA, BA etc players really want to have to pay DOUBLE to play their army?

 Redemption wrote:
I wonder what the next supplement is...

As it’s Geedubs probably Iron Hands based on that evidence!

 Redemption wrote:
I wonder what the next supplement is...

Even GW is having trouble keeping up with all of the flavors of Space Marines.

 Redemption wrote:
I wonder what the next supplement is...

Oh god, they’re whitewashing Salamanders!

Mine arrived this morning

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Space Wolves especially, as every single unit is slightly different in some way, they wouldn’t be able to be squeezed into a supplement.

"Wouldn't" when they were able to squeeze them into Index SM?

All it would take is something like "Wolf Lord - see Captain datasheet. He can also take wolfwolfwolfsword and wolfyiffaxe". There, done. Wolves have like 5 really unique units, rest is either tiny variation on Codex one or completely identical to it.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I think Grey Knights deserve a look at well before the other three.

I still find it funny (and kind of sad) how virtually all proposed fixes for them I see can be boiled down to "reprint their 5th edition codex and fire everyone who did any subsequent GK book as obviously incompetent in basic math and fluff knowledge"...