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GW kind of botched the KT release by not being able to keep stock of their starter and then following it up with mostly uninspired releases (Rogue Trader was unique and Arena was a cool product if you like competitive or quick games) like Commanders and Elites (and now needing at least three books to play. No new and interesting factions, no cool extended campaign supplements, etc.

Releasing a new starter could be a way to get people interested in the game again, but releasing a markedly worse starter for more money definitely won't do it. And I can't imagine interest will continue if their next release is "Fast Attack."

If they'd included the pipes it would at least feel a bit more reasonable.

But the scenarios in the original Sector Mechanicus Kill Zone were supposed to be balanced around the amount of terrain in the box, so this feels like a pretty bad playing experience.

They're not seriously going to charge more for less here (again), are they?

Meh starter set, nothing stands out except for the terrain... Standard fire warrior set and half a Primaris Reivers squad...Big pass from me. GW this is not a good showing.

I'd be okay with it if it didn't have Tau Fire Warriors. They came with 7th edition Kill Team and Advance Team Starpulse, so I've already got 20 Kill Team Tau Fire Warriors and I don't want another 10. Wouldn't have minded other Tau units, but I've got Kill Team Fire Warriors coming out the wazoo.

lol Reivers and Fire warriors.. might as well just not even stock this.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd be okay with it if it didn't have Tau Fire Warriors. They came with 7th edition Kill Team and Advance Team Starpulse, so I've already got 20 Kill Team Tau Fire Warriors and I don't want another 10. Wouldn't have minded other Tau units, but I've got Kill Team Fire Warriors coming out the wazoo.

It does let them pull Starpulse and Ulfrich off the shelves though--possibly opening up room for another couple of Kill Teams down the line, like they did with AdMech/GSC.

I'm not going to get my hopes up, but it might mean we see a 'generic' Space Marines Kill Team of Infiltrators/Incursors, and a Tau one of Pathfinders or Stealth Suits?

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd be okay with it if it didn't have Tau Fire Warriors. They came with 7th edition Kill Team and Advance Team Starpulse, so I've already got 20 Kill Team Tau Fire Warriors and I don't want another 10. Wouldn't have minded other Tau units, but I've got Kill Team Fire Warriors coming out the wazoo.

Man I'm the total opposite. I started collecting at the top of 8th edition. So right now I only own two fire warrior squads and 1 breacher squad. So getting another box out of this is perfect for both kill team and my 40k army. (Though I think my local store sitll has advanced team starpulse in stock. I may just grab that and skip the starter set. depends on if my buddy goes halfsies on the box with me.)

 Kanluwen wrote:

It does let them pull Starpulse and Ulfrich off the shelves though--possibly opening up room for another Kill Team set down the line, like they did with AdMech/GSC.

They aren't on the shelves. They sold through their initial production a while ago, and GW doesn't seem in a hurry to reprint any of them. I think it is less about opening up space and more that they want Space Marines in there, but only have 5 models, so they want the other side to have a bunch of models so that it looks like a better value. Fire Warriors have 13 models (when you include the two drones and missile pod).

However, if any faction were to get the Theta-7/Starn business, it'd be Space Wolves (Intercessors + Lt) and Tau (Pathfinders + commander). Death Guard and Thousand Sons are probably up there (they only have elite boxes, lacking core KT units, and are relatively fresh so the design studio hasn't forgotten how to make new ones) while anything Eldar is probably the least likely to see one. Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines (also new), and Custodes also lack any starter boxes.


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balmong7 wrote:

Man I'm the total opposite. I started collecting at the top of 8th edition. So right now I only own two fire warrior squads and 1 breacher squad. So getting another box out of this is perfect for both kill team and my 40k army. (Though I think my local store sitll has advanced team starpulse in stock. I may just grab that and skip the starter set. depends on if my buddy goes halfsies on the box with me.)

I don't play 40k, so excuse me if this is a dumb question. But when using Fire Warriors for it, do they have to be more homogeneous load outs? I built my Starpulse Fire Warriors to match the cards, and have weapons and equipment that is kind of all over the place. To use them in 40k, would I need to split them into different units and then fill out the rest of the ranks with similar models, or does that hodge podge of equipment work in a single unit?

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It does let them pull Starpulse and Ulfrich off the shelves though--possibly opening up room for another Kill Team set down the line, like they did with AdMech/GSC.

They aren't on the shelves. They sold through their initial production a while ago, and GW doesn't seem in a hurry to reprint any of them. I think it is less about opening up space and more that they want Space Marines in there, but only have 5 models, so they want the other side to have a bunch of models so that it looks like a better value. Fire Warriors have 13 models (when you include the two drones and missile pod).

However, if any faction were to get the Theta-7/Starn business, it'd be Space Wolves (Intercessors + Lt) and Tau (Pathfinders + commander). Death Guard and Thousand Sons are probably up there (they only have elite boxes, lacking core KT units, and are relatively fresh so the design studio hasn't forgotten how to make new ones) while anything Eldar is probably the least likely to see one. Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines (also new), and Custodes also lack any starter boxes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

balmong7 wrote:

Man I'm the total opposite. I started collecting at the top of 8th edition. So right now I only own two fire warrior squads and 1 breacher squad. So getting another box out of this is perfect for both kill team and my 40k army. (Though I think my local store sitll has advanced team starpulse in stock. I may just grab that and skip the starter set. depends on if my buddy goes halfsies on the box with me.)

I don't play 40k, so excuse me if this is a dumb question. But when using Fire Warriors for it, do they have to be more homogeneous load outs? I built my Starpulse Fire Warriors to match the cards, and have weapons and equipment that is kind of all over the place. To use them in 40k, would I need to split them into different units and then fill out the rest of the ranks with similar models, or does that hodge podge of equipment work in a single unit?

They only have to be homogenous for the breachers. 5 model min, 10 max. the regular fire warriors (the carbines and rifles) can be taken as a mixed unit. Again with 5 models min. However, most people run them all with the same gun just for ease.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It does let them pull Starpulse and Ulfrich off the shelves though--possibly opening up room for another Kill Team set down the line, like they did with AdMech/GSC.

They aren't on the shelves. They sold through their initial production a while ago, and GW doesn't seem in a hurry to reprint any of them. I think it is less about opening up space and more that they want Space Marines in there, but only have 5 models, so they want the other side to have a bunch of models so that it looks like a better value. Fire Warriors have 13 models (when you include the two drones and missile pod).

Missile Pods aren't considered a unit but rather wargear. It's like the Homing Beacon for Terminators and Stealth Suits.

Take this with a grain of salt, but I've heard that a big part of why they haven't been in a hurry to reprint anything is that they felt the KT PLUS a Commander as separate purchases didn't seem to work out too well--and that the 'Big Terrain' pieces weren't exactly working out well since that's stuff produced outside of their own manufacturing line, same with the cardboard materials. Purportedly there was some concern that having things like the Wall of Martyr bits turned people off from the later sets, while the Ryza Pattern Ruins and the "Sector Sanctoris Ruins"(two of the frames that came with Urban Conquest) seem to be better received.

However, if any faction were to get the Theta-7/Starn business, it'd be Space Wolves (Intercessors + Lt) and Tau (Pathfinders + commander). Death Guard and Thousand Sons are probably up there (they only have elite boxes, lacking core KT units, and are relatively fresh so the design studio hasn't forgotten how to make new ones) while anything Eldar is probably the least likely to see one. Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines (also new), and Custodes also lack any starter boxes.

Again, grain of salt time:
Purportedly the Shadowspear sprues were set up with an eye towards being made into Kill Team/Start Collecting sets down the road. I don't own the Elites book so I don't know if Suppressors are in there, but the Marine stuff could easily fill a Kill Team box on its own even if they just gave you 1 of each sprue(not counting the Phobos Librarian and Captains who had their own individual frames), and doing so would give you:
1x Lt in Phobos Armor w/ Grav Chute and Master-Crafted Oculus Bolt Carbine
1x Eliminator Sergeant
1x Eliminator
1x Suppressor Sergeant
1x Suppressor
1x Helix Adept
1x Infiltrator Sergeant
5x Infiltrators, spread across 2 sprues. There's three of them(Pistol raised, 2x different bolters raised poses) on the 'goon' sprue while there's 2(smoke grenade toss and the pseudo-Squad Leader) on what I call the 'command' sprue.

Chaos Marines might not give you the Venomcrawler or Obliterators(are Obliterators in the Elites book?), but the sprue can get you:
2x Greater Possessed
1x Chaos Marine Sergeant with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe
1x Chaos Marine with Plasma Gun
1x Chaos Marine with Autocannon
4x Chaos Marines with Bolt Pistol and Chainswords
3x Chaos Marines with Boltguns

 Kanluwen wrote:

Take this with a grain of salt, but I've heard that a big part of why they haven't been in a hurry to reprint anything is that they felt the KT PLUS a Commander as separate purchases didn't seem to work out too well--and that the 'Big Terrain' pieces weren't exactly working out well since that's stuff produced outside of their own manufacturing line, same with the cardboard materials. Purportedly there was some concern that having things like the Wall of Martyr bits turned people off from the later sets, while the Ryza Pattern Ruins and the "Sector Sanctoris Ruins"(two of the frames that came with Urban Conquest) seem to be better received.

That's some interesting stuff there. The Commander expansions were an obvious misstep (though largely because they were about $10 too expensive). Also, including terrain in the faction boxes made less and less sense as the terrain became less modular. You can always use some more Sector Mechanicus or Sector Munitorum crates, but the Deathworld forest and Wall of Martyrs didn't really make sense. Not a fan of the Sanctoris scatter rubble either - I don't need 4 sets of it. I would not be terribly disappointed if they dropped the terrain parts of the faction starters (as long as the price dropped too), but if you ask me, just put in straight Sector Mechanicus walkway sprues - those things are always useful, but found in almost none of the kits, and there's no way to get a decent quantity of them.

Purportedly the Shadowspear sprues were set up with an eye towards being made into Kill Team/Start Collecting sets down the road.

I didn't really pay attention to Shadowspear, but aren't most of the Primaris models in it new units that don't have profiles for Kill Team?

Chaos Marines might not give you the Venomcrawler or Obliterators(are Obliterators in the Elites book?), but...

Are the Venomcrawler and Obliterators on the same sprue as the regular chaos marines? They wouldn't create a Kill Team pack with models (or parts of models) that you can't use, but if they are on their own sprues, that would lend some credibility to the rumor.

I'd imagine with most of the newer 3d sculpted models they could just reconfigure a sprue to accommodate the models they want on there.

Maybe then we could get more walkway sprues. I agree- we're always in need of more of those!

I thought Rogue Trader was a step in the right direction in terms of bringing new things to the 40k table. A shame it didn't come with a set of KT instructions so it was all self- contained like it should have been.

GW want me to pony up those starter set prices, best offer something I don't already have then!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I thought Rogue Trader was a step in the right direction in terms of bringing new things to the 40k table. A shame it didn't come with a set of KT instructions so it was all self- contained like it should have been.

Rogue Trader really felt rushed. The models were amazing, but the campaign was minimal despite being what should've been the selling point for the whole box, and it had Commanders before Commanders was even released. Worse still, they never expanded these factions so the rogue traders, at least, can't play more than 100 pt games - they were already kind of middling, and all the other factions just sort of left them behind. I was expecting the Blackstone Fortress characters to get added to the group. With the new stupidly expensive expansion release, there's enough there for a rogue trader faction... Rogue Trader should've been the future of Kill Team, but instead they went more towards a 40k demo/competitive direction.

My distant hope is that GW was blindsided by the success of Kill Team and has been releasing easy expansions for the time being while they build up more substantial additions to the game. There was a rumored assassins Rogue Trader-like box that never materialized. I'm hoping that they were just saving it until they relaunched Kill Team with a new starter.... Rebellions are built on hope, you know...

 Sqorgar wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I thought Rogue Trader was a step in the right direction in terms of bringing new things to the 40k table. A shame it didn't come with a set of KT instructions so it was all self- contained like it should have been.

Rogue Trader really felt rushed. The models were amazing, but the campaign was minimal despite being what should've been the selling point for the whole box, and it had Commanders before Commanders was even released. Worse still, they never expanded these factions so the rogue traders, at least, can't play more than 100 pt games - they were already kind of middling, and all the other factions just sort of left them behind. I was expecting the Blackstone Fortress characters to get added to the group. With the new stupidly expensive expansion release, there's enough there for a rogue trader faction... Rogue Trader should've been the future of Kill Team, but instead they went more towards a 40k demo/competitive direction.

My distant hope is that GW was blindsided by the success of Kill Team and has been releasing easy expansions for the time being while they build up more substantial additions to the game. There was a rumored assassins Rogue Trader-like box that never materialized. I'm hoping that they were just saving it until they relaunched Kill Team with a new starter.... Rebellions are built on hope, you know...

From what I understand Rogue Trader was rushed. Someone leaked out its existence to the media. Everyone went insane over it, and someone in management was like "Push up the release date to capitalize on hype". That initial reveal trailer went out like a week or two later.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Are the Venomcrawler and Obliterators on the same sprue as the regular chaos marines? They wouldn't create a Kill Team pack with models (or parts of models) that you can't use, but if they are on their own sprues, that would lend some credibility to the rumor.

The 10 Chaos Marines and the 2 Greater Possessed are on one sprue. The Oblits and the Venom Crawler are on the other sprue.

Obispudkenobi wrote:

Bharring wrote:
So two killteams with almost no options?

No, the firewarriors are stuffed full of different weapons, drones optional parts etc it's a really good quality kit.
Pretty sure the marines have a load of optional gear too.

Three potential weapon loadouts for Tau: Breacher with Pulse Blaster, Strike Team with Pulse Rifle or Pulse Carbine. Support Drone can take Smart Missiles or Missile Pod. Drones are Pulse Carbines/Markerlight/Shield Generator.

Rievers have two loadouts: Heavy Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife or Bolt Carbine.

 Sqorgar wrote:

That's some interesting stuff there. The Commander expansions were an obvious misstep (though largely because they were about $10 too expensive). Also, including terrain in the faction boxes made less and less sense as the terrain became less modular. You can always use some more Sector Mechanicus or Sector Munitorum crates, but the Deathworld forest and Wall of Martyrs didn't really make sense. Not a fan of the Sanctoris scatter rubble either - I don't need 4 sets of it. I would not be terribly disappointed if they dropped the terrain parts of the faction starters (as long as the price dropped too), but if you ask me, just put in straight Sector Mechanicus walkway sprues - those things are always useful, but found in almost none of the kits, and there's no way to get a decent quantity of them.

I'm actually a fan of the Sanctoris scatter rubble, but I would point out that there's a second section of the scenery that's in Urban Conquest that hasn't gotten a general release. The fencing, doctorbot, surgical table, and a bunch of crates.

The Wall of Martyrs stuff would have made a lot more sense if they'd made the fluff clear from the outset for everyone. Unlike most of the Kill Teams which had a Vigilus bend, the Necrons and Tau weren't--they were somewhere else entirely, an Imperial world that the Tau were going after. Necrons were waking up there, cause of course it was a Tomb World.

Purportedly the Shadowspear sprues were set up with an eye towards being made into Kill Team/Start Collecting sets down the road.

I didn't really pay attention to Shadowspear, but aren't most of the Primaris models in it new units that don't have profiles for Kill Team?

Apparently the Elites book added the stuff from Shadowspear. Infiltrators, Eliminators, Suppressors, and the Phobos LT, Librarian, and Captain.

I had to look up the Community Article on it.

Chaos Marines might not give you the Venomcrawler or Obliterators(are Obliterators in the Elites book?), but...

Are the Venomcrawler and Obliterators on the same sprue as the regular chaos marines? They wouldn't create a Kill Team pack with models (or parts of models) that you can't use, but if they are on their own sprues, that would lend some credibility to the rumor.

Venomcrawler and Obliterators are their own separate sprue to the normal CSMs and the two Greater Possessed.

 Kanluwen wrote:


The Wall of Martyrs stuff would have made a lot more sense if they'd made the fluff clear from the outset for everyone. Unlike most of the Kill Teams which had a Vigilus bend, the Necrons and Tau weren't--they were somewhere else entirely, an Imperial world that the Tau were going after. Necrons were waking up there, cause of course it was a Tomb World.

Most people I know didn't like wall of martyrs because it removed all the verticality and los blocking stuff from kill team. I personally don't know anyone who got play on sector fronteris. But I liked the look of it because it was a lot of LOS blocking ruins but not quite as verticle as the sector imperialis tuff. Plus you could pretty easily mix it with sector imperialist or sector mechanicus and it fits well.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I thought Rogue Trader was a step in the right direction in terms of bringing new things to the 40k table. A shame it didn't come with a set of KT instructions so it was all self- contained like it should have been.

Rogue Trader really felt rushed. The models were amazing, but the campaign was minimal despite being what should've been the selling point for the whole box, and it had Commanders before Commanders was even released. Worse still, they never expanded these factions so the rogue traders, at least, can't play more than 100 pt games - they were already kind of middling, and all the other factions just sort of left them behind. I was expecting the Blackstone Fortress characters to get added to the group. With the new stupidly expensive expansion release, there's enough there for a rogue trader faction... Rogue Trader should've been the future of Kill Team, but instead they went more towards a 40k demo/competitive direction.

My distant hope is that GW was blindsided by the success of Kill Team and has been releasing easy expansions for the time being while they build up more substantial additions to the game. There was a rumored assassins Rogue Trader-like box that never materialized. I'm hoping that they were just saving it until they relaunched Kill Team with a new starter.... Rebellions are built on hope, you know...

The problem with the Rogue Trader was that it was not really a Rogue Trader faction, it was Elucidian Starstiders faction. These specific guys, with the set gear in this specific combination. I was so disappointed with that. The rules should have been for generic customisable Rogue Trader faction and then the appropriate Blackstone minis should have been added to that. And same for the 40K version of them

 Crimson wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I thought Rogue Trader was a step in the right direction in terms of bringing new things to the 40k table. A shame it didn't come with a set of KT instructions so it was all self- contained like it should have been.

Rogue Trader really felt rushed. The models were amazing, but the campaign was minimal despite being what should've been the selling point for the whole box, and it had Commanders before Commanders was even released. Worse still, they never expanded these factions so the rogue traders, at least, can't play more than 100 pt games - they were already kind of middling, and all the other factions just sort of left them behind. I was expecting the Blackstone Fortress characters to get added to the group. With the new stupidly expensive expansion release, there's enough there for a rogue trader faction... Rogue Trader should've been the future of Kill Team, but instead they went more towards a 40k demo/competitive direction.

My distant hope is that GW was blindsided by the success of Kill Team and has been releasing easy expansions for the time being while they build up more substantial additions to the game. There was a rumored assassins Rogue Trader-like box that never materialized. I'm hoping that they were just saving it until they relaunched Kill Team with a new starter.... Rebellions are built on hope, you know...

The problem with the Rogue Trader was that it was not really a Rogue Trader faction, it was Elucidian Starstiders faction. These specific guys, with the set gear in this specific combination. I was so disappointed with that. The rules should have been for generic customisable Rogue Trader faction and then the appropriate Blackstone minis should have been added to that. And same for the 40K version of them

Yeah I was pissed when I learned that they didn't overlap with each other. I spent a bunch of money getting ahold of the models because I thought they would.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure where the correct place to post this is in terms of news and rumors. but they just FAQ'd kill team today.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/23/warhammer-40000-kill-team-updatesgw-homepage-post-3/

Looking at the GW preorders on the NZ storefront and... are the models no longer in colored plastic?

 Sqorgar wrote:
Looking at the GW preorders on the NZ storefront and... are the models no longer in colored plastic?

They probably have lots of overpriced Reivers and old Tau that stuffing them into this wonderful starter, along with some old news, skimpy amount of Sector Mechanicus is simplicity. And to another poster, just because GW is ‘sold out’ of something sure didn’t mean that I couldn’t walk into my not so friendly or local game store and find the Fangs and Starpulse still gathering dust on the shelf long after the internets declared the ‘unavailable’.

Would have been nice if it included some crisis battle suits instead.... I got enough Fire warriors... and I don't even collect T'au

It's a starter set for the basic game isn't it? I though Crisis suits were from the Elites expansion.

Correct, the Crisis suit can be found in the Elites expansion.

so the GW website says "This section includes Sector Imperialis rules, which are designed for use with the scenery found in the box;"

but the scenery in the box is Sector Mechanicus. Any idea if that's a misprint, or there isn't actually any of the special mechanicus rules in the box. My recollection was that the Core Rules had imperialis terrain rules but the other Sectors were in different terrain boxes.

I guess they'd have had to reprint a different set of core rules to do this, which they did not.

 pduggie wrote:
so the GW website says "This section includes Sector Imperialis rules, which are designed for use with the scenery found in the box;"

but the scenery in the box is Sector Mechanicus. Any idea if that's a misprint, or there isn't actually any of the special mechanicus rules in the box. My recollection was that the Core Rules had imperialis terrain rules but the other Sectors were in different terrain boxes.

I guess they'd have had to reprint a different set of core rules to do this, which they did not.

The killzone rules basically amount to a large card with six random events on it. The Sector Imperialis table is in the core rulebook, while future killzones had the card separately. In addition to this card, the killzones also include a bunch of tactics cards for the killzone for the various terrain items - Sector Imperialis never got these cards. The killzones also included a booklet on the killzone that was a few pages of lore and a few pages of photographs of the terrain painted.

It does not appear that the new starter set includes the Sector Mechanicus card or the tactics cards. Also, it doesn't include the booklet (despite having the Fangs of Ulfrich and Starpulse booklets) - probably because the booklet shows the plasma pipes that it doesn't include. It does include the SM board though.

So, the new starter set does include the Sector Imperialis rules (which is in the core book), but in no way was it designed for the scenery found in the box. Copy and paste error, I'd guess.

 totalfailure wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Looking at the GW preorders on the NZ storefront and... are the models no longer in colored plastic?

They probably have lots of overpriced Reivers and old Tau that stuffing them into this wonderful starter, along with some old news, skimpy amount of Sector Mechanicus is simplicity. And to another poster, just because GW is ‘sold out’ of something sure didn’t mean that I couldn’t walk into my not so friendly or local game store and find the Fangs and Starpulse still gathering dust on the shelf long after the internets declared the ‘unavailable’.

The base primaris kits are really a mystery to me. And the more I mull it over, the more and more I am beginning to think that the team just doesn't know what to do with these models. They seem all over the place with strange weapon options (or lack their of) and even design choices. Suppressors look like knock off toys compared to the intercessor kit, which looks much more streamlined.

I'm interested in starting kill team, I love the Reiver models and like the Tau, so I just popped over to the website to take a gander...
No way am I paying $160 for that box.
I've never gotten into 40k, but GW sure isn't going to win me over anytime soon if that is their offering for a starter.