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Not Online!!! wrote:
But in all seriousness, what's the issue with the weapon? For a non eldar player?

Well, the first problem is that Incubi already have serious issues with damage output. Klaives were okay in past editions but with so many infantry now having 2+ wounds they're just not pulling their weight. It also doesn't help that they're only S4 and have no access to damage buffs or rerolls.

The issue with Demiklaives is that they solve precisely none of these issues and instead add an alternate mode that's basically entirely pointless.

It really needed to be something like:
Single Blade: S+2 AP-3 D2
Dual Blades: S+1 AP-3 D1 & +2Attacks

(with normal Klaives just using the first profile)

If he does +2 damage on every wound roll of a 6 then +2 attacks seems universally better.

You could say that for a lot of weapons now that even relatively squishy characters are W4, and weapons tend to jump from D1 to D3. Heck, a few complaints about stuff like Lascannons and whatnot would be solved by pegging them at a specific D.

Looks pretty good. Hopefully there are other complimentary rules beyond their weapon profile that will dramatically improve their usefulness.

I agree that the head does look rather large. Perhaps it's just the horns that are causing the issue?

It's a shame they didn't give the Klaivex a trenchcoat reminiscent of the original Vect Retinue Incubi. I would love to see them ditch the current court of the archon in favor of returning to an incubi retinue. A whole unit of Klaivex with trenchcoats protecting an Archon would be quite the site. Horrible and effective, but quite the site.

 Shadenuat wrote:
So Incubi are fairly new models especially when compared to Craftworlds stuff. Can we exercise a daring thought that finecast fails to sell and they really really want to replace it?

there awas a rumor awhile back, I think back at the start of 8th edition that GW wanted to be rid of finecast by 2020. I never really took that too seriously as there where so many characters they'd have to replace that it'd be almost impossiable, but I could see 2020 being the target to update to plastic various finecast units. and leave finecast to older character models exclusivly.

That Incubi is very cool. Will be interesting to see what the rest of the kit looks like.

Dudeface wrote:
Parity. Death guard and thousand sons are as divergent fluff wise as emperors children. Currently you would have capacity for:

Fulgrim
Lucius
Doomrider
Noise marines
Fabius Bile
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons)
The reject experiment marines
Sonic dreads
Subjugators could be repurposed into here
Plus any shared units.

Why do you want "parity" only for Chaos legions? Why can you not see that I want inter-factional parity also?

Dudeface wrote:
All previous existing kits or entries, what speed freaks units are missing?

What would there be capacity for, you mean?

Wazzdakka Gutsmek
Speedlord Supreme Krooldakka
Zagboss Skargrim
Jazgob
Warboss on Bike
Big Mek on Bike (KFF and SAG versions, as well as standard)
Painboy on Bike
Boar Boyz (could be a Snakebite codex instead, or both)
Weirdboy Battle Tower
Speedstas
Battle Fortress
Cyborks

To be fair I'd take a supplement but I don't see why one faction deserves sub faction specific codexes and another does not.

Brian888 wrote:
It's a fair question. Putting aside real-world economic reasons why the DG and TS got their own codexes, the fluff basically says that they need their own codexes because they are substantially different in structure and operation from the other Traitor Legions.

And Evil Sunz are portrayed as completely different to Goffs and completely different to Snakebites in terms of structure etc in the lore. This isn't a Legion or a Marine only phenomenon.

hey if GW thinks a speed freaks codex can make them money I'm all for a speed freaks codex. People think a EC and WE codex are likely for a host of reasons. the main one is thousand sons and death guard have their own codices and poeople assume the other 2 "mono god legions" will.

I do think a world eaters and emperor's children codex would be benifical to the game. as it would allow GW to give them the units required to actually function as they're supposed to without unbalancing the undivided armies,.

BrianDavion wrote:
hey if GW thinks a speed freaks codex can make them money I'm all for a speed freaks codex

Given they made a boxed game called Speed Freaks and with a specific focus on them so I think it's a pretty safe bet. They also decided to make the Buggies universally poor rules-wise so I suspect they had an inkling they'd sell regardless.

Back to the discussion, I agree with the general sentiment that this bodes well for the replacement of Finecast models which pretty much everyone wants at this point.

BrianDavion wrote:
hey if GW thinks a speed freaks codex can make them money I'm all for a speed freaks codex. People think a EC and WE codex are likely for a host of reasons. the main one is thousand sons and death guard have their own codices and poeople assume the other 2 "mono god legions" will.

I do think a world eaters and emperor's children codex would be benifical to the game. as it would allow GW to give them the units required to actually function as they're supposed to without unbalancing the undivided armies,.

Unbalancing the undivided armies?

You know gw could've easily done a book with all the marine chapters in it and all the legions in one with propperly fleshed out lore and lists.

Instead we get to buy more gak then allready?
Rules are allready too splintered to force players to buy multiple books.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Does anyone expect the kit to have any addtional options, like the Banshee kit does? Ynnari Incubi don't sound particularly likely to me as an idea, since they've always been described as very devoted to passionless pursuit of martial arts, unlikely to be moved by religious conviction

Incubi are literally the pisterboys of Ynnari (seriously look at the posters) and The Visarch is a Hierarch who took his whole shrine over. If say Ynnari Incubi are 100% a thing in the fluff. They are also available in the current Ynnari index, no one takes them as they cost CP and are terrible, but they are there.

To answer another question posed by someone else, yes the klaivex used to have an equivalent of Exarch powers back in 5th. DE lost alot in the last few editions. Hopefully we'll get some back.

I wonder if we will see a battle box for Eldar vs dark eldar like tooth and claw or wrath and rapture. Say a squad of howling banshee and exarch, some jet bikes, jetseer, and dire avengers vs drazhar, incubi, squad of warriors and raider.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
hey if GW thinks a speed freaks codex can make them money I'm all for a speed freaks codex

Given they made a boxed game called Speed Freaks and with a specific focus on them so I think it's a pretty safe bet. They also decided to make the Buggies universally poor rules-wise so I suspect they had an inkling they'd sell regardless.

Back to the discussion, I agree with the general sentiment that this bodes well for the replacement of Finecast models which pretty much everyone wants at this point.

my local GW had speed freak boxes in until a month or two ago so it may not have sold well.. that said I think there's still a copy of "Wake the dead" in my local store, which is no suprise, for the price of wake the dead I could buy dark Imperium and get more units, wake the dead only offered a unique Leuitenant for marine players.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
hey if GW thinks a speed freaks codex can make them money I'm all for a speed freaks codex

Given they made a boxed game called Speed Freaks and with a specific focus on them so I think it's a pretty safe bet. They also decided to make the Buggies universally poor rules-wise so I suspect they had an inkling they'd sell regardless.

Back to the discussion, I agree with the general sentiment that this bodes well for the replacement of Finecast models which pretty much everyone wants at this point.

my local GW had speed freak boxes in until a month or two ago so it may not have sold well.. that said I think there's still a copy of "Wake the dead" in my local store, which is no suprise, for the price of wake the dead I could buy dark Imperium and get more units, wake the dead only offered a unique Leuitenant for marine players.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. I'm pretty sure it sold out online, which is probably a better representation than your local store.

Why would you want supplement books for the ork codex?

Plastic Incubi are meh. They have no army tactics, t3 models, without psychic support or stratagems, and are over-costed for their damage output/durability. So...thanks?

they needed new models; now thet have them ... orkz can wait a bit more

Plastic Incubi? Never even thought of that.

Good. It's about time.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is going way off topic now but there is absolutely no reason that EC deserve a full codex and not any other sub faction. EC, as far as I'm concerned, are simply Slaanesh worshipping Chaos marines with a penchant for noise. Is that their only unique unit? The noise marine? You want them to have an entire codex for that and Fulgrim? If your response is "no AAE they should have new models bruuu" then I ask why should that be any different to another sub faction?

You've seen the Death Guard and 1KSons books right? That's what would happen to EC.

New HQs, Noise Marine Terminators, a special unit (ala Deathshroud or Exalted Sorcs) vehicles/daemon engines, the works.

Your narrow view on them (They're just CSMs with sonic guns!) is very, very silly.

Those Incubi are lookin' fine! Hopefully they get updated rules as well like the Banshees, so they have something to beef up their CC a bit and make up for their lack of a trait in the DE army.

 Jidmah wrote:
Why would you want supplement books for the ork codex?

So I can play my clan as it is supposed to be played without completely hamstringing myself so neither my opponent nor me has a good time?

To shake up the meta?

To add more variety to the two primary Ork competitive builds?

Take your pick.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is going way off topic now but there is absolutely no reason that EC deserve a full codex and not any other sub faction. EC, as far as I'm concerned, are simply Slaanesh worshipping Chaos marines with a penchant for noise. Is that their only unique unit? The noise marine? You want them to have an entire codex for that and Fulgrim? If your response is "no AAE they should have new models bruuu" then I ask why should that be any different to another sub faction?

You've seen the Death Guard and 1KSons books right? That's what would happen to EC.

New HQs, Noise Marine Terminators, a special unit (ala Deathshroud or Exalted Sorcs) vehicles/daemon engines, the works.

Your narrow view on them (They're just CSMs with sonic guns!) is very, very silly.

As above, the bolded part of my post. As I have said I have no issue with sub-factions getting their own codex, I think the same should happen more often and to more than just Marines and Spikey Marines though.

I think it is unlikely that EC get a release any time soon because CSM and Slaanesh Daemons have just received a huuuge update and though I suppose you're more than able to disagree, you'd be hard pressed not to concede that they are very similar in aesthetic and player base I think.

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Did Incubi ever have their own version of Exarch powers? I doubt GW are going to add them now.

They used to have a few things - like helmit mounted splinter pistols. Given they are a dark mirror of Aspect Warriors and Exarchs - not giving them the smae boost seems extremely lazy.

The helmet only ever gave +1A though and wasn't a Klaivex ability, largely because it was kind of removed for the 5th ed codex when the Klaivex became a thing, Incubi gained an exra attack to their profile anyway to balance it out.

The Klaivex had 2 powers in 5th, one gave the whole squad exploding 6's to hit, which is now a stratagem, and the other let you re-roll 1's against an Independent Character for just the Klaivex.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Saddly the Demi-klaives profile is unchanged, meaning they're still worthless pieces of crap.

Yeah, I was going to comment about this. What is even the point of the second profile? Might as well have the option to swap out the Klaive for a French loaf.

Also, the Banshee Exarch get 6 completely new powers to choose from whilst the Klaivex doesn't even get a fix to his garbage weapon. Glad to see that the preferential treatment for Craftwords remains strong as ever.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
COOOOL Incubi, i literally don't care as a DE player, i'd rather have more HQ options and a way to mix detachments some new traits for mix detachments, etc..

Also this.

I really don't want the only models DE get this decade to just be more plastic remakes of finecast models.

Welcome to the club DE players
care for an oblitervirus shake?


But in all seriousness, what's the issue with the weapon? For a non eldar player?

Math. Against most targets they're underwhelming and not very good. and the outcome isn't particularly distinct. Kills about 1 ork either way, .84 or .72 of marine and 1.32 or 1.65 guardsmen.

DE just have so many better, cheaper ways of killing enemies
.

SO basically the added attack opton is worthless. ?
Wellp.

Voss and the_scotsman both missed the most important part, you pay 8pts to give the Klaivex Demi-Klaives whilst the standard Klaive with the +1S, AP-3 profile is free.

How many attacks does he have to begin with? Like, if he had 3 base or something, them maybe adding on 2 more might be useful.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many attacks does he have to begin with? Like, if he had 3 base or something, them maybe adding on 2 more might be useful.

AFAIK, Incubi all have 3 attacks base, the Klaivex might have 4.

 Imateria wrote:

The Klaivex had 2 powers in 5th, one gave the whole squad exploding 6's to hit, which is now a stratagem, and the other let you re-roll 1's against an Independent Character for just the Klaivex.

Wasn't there also a flamer ability?

 Imateria wrote:

Voss and the_scotsman both missed the most important part, you pay 8pts to give the Klaivex Demi-Klaives whilst the standard Klaive with the +1S, AP-3 profile is free.

In that case, I look forward to never using them even on those occasions when the planets align and I actually field a unit of Incubi.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

The Klaivex had 2 powers in 5th, one gave the whole squad exploding 6's to hit, which is now a stratagem, and the other let you re-roll 1's against an Independent Character for just the Klaivex.

Wasn't there also a flamer ability?

 Imateria wrote:

Voss and the_scotsman both missed the most important part, you pay 8pts to give the Klaivex Demi-Klaives whilst the standard Klaive with the +1S, AP-3 profile is free.

In that case, I look forward to never using them even on those occasions when the planets align and I actually field a unit of Incubi.

The Bloodstone was a one use only piece of wargear you could buy for a Klaivex, if I remember right it was a S3, AP3 flamer template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many attacks does he have to begin with? Like, if he had 3 base or something, them maybe adding on 2 more might be useful.

AFAIK, Incubi all have 3 attacks base, the Klaivex might have 4.

This is correct, and the Klaivex has an ability where his attacks are a flat 3 damage on 6's to wound. The problem is they are MEQ killers in an edition where MEQ is worthless.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Why would you want supplement books for the ork codex?

So I can play my clan as it is supposed to be played without completely hamstringing myself so neither my opponent nor me has a good time?

To shake up the meta?

To add more variety to the two primary Ork competitive builds?

Take your pick.

And what exactly do you expect the supplement book to do except charging you extra money for what is basically the vigilus detachment plus what's already in the codex?

Do you really expect it will suck less just because you paid premium for yet another book?

Go ask all the white scars players sitting on their biker armies how well that worked for them.

 Imateria wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

The Klaivex had 2 powers in 5th, one gave the whole squad exploding 6's to hit, which is now a stratagem, and the other let you re-roll 1's against an Independent Character for just the Klaivex.

Wasn't there also a flamer ability?

 Imateria wrote:

Voss and the_scotsman both missed the most important part, you pay 8pts to give the Klaivex Demi-Klaives whilst the standard Klaive with the +1S, AP-3 profile is free.

In that case, I look forward to never using them even on those occasions when the planets align and I actually field a unit of Incubi.

The Bloodstone was a one use only piece of wargear you could buy for a Klaivex, if I remember right it was a S3, AP3 flamer template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many attacks does he have to begin with? Like, if he had 3 base or something, them maybe adding on 2 more might be useful.

AFAIK, Incubi all have 3 attacks base, the Klaivex might have 4.

This is correct, and the Klaivex has an ability where his attacks are a flat 3 damage on 6's to wound. The problem is they are MEQ killers in an edition where MEQ is worthless.

You clearly haven't faced NuMarines yet.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Why would you want supplement books for the ork codex?

So I can play my clan as it is supposed to be played without completely hamstringing myself so neither my opponent nor me has a good time?

To shake up the meta?

To add more variety to the two primary Ork competitive builds?

Take your pick.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is going way off topic now but there is absolutely no reason that EC deserve a full codex and not any other sub faction. EC, as far as I'm concerned, are simply Slaanesh worshipping Chaos marines with a penchant for noise. Is that their only unique unit? The noise marine? You want them to have an entire codex for that and Fulgrim? If your response is "no AAE they should have new models bruuu" then I ask why should that be any different to another sub faction?

You've seen the Death Guard and 1KSons books right? That's what would happen to EC.

New HQs, Noise Marine Terminators, a special unit (ala Deathshroud or Exalted Sorcs) vehicles/daemon engines, the works.

Your narrow view on them (They're just CSMs with sonic guns!) is very, very silly.

As above, the bolded part of my post. As I have said I have no issue with sub-factions getting their own codex, I think the same should happen more often and to more than just Marines and Spikey Marines though.

I think it is unlikely that EC get a release any time soon because CSM and Slaanesh Daemons have just received a huuuge update and though I suppose you're more than able to disagree, you'd be hard pressed not to concede that they are very similar in aesthetic and player base I think.

Slaanish deamons aren't EC though, right now Noise Marines are in pretty despirate need of a plastic kit. own codex or not I'd not be suprised if the new CSM toy with PA was a plastric noise marine kit.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
CSM and Slaanesh Daemons have just received a huuuge update and though I suppose you're more than able to disagree, you'd be hard pressed not to concede that they are very similar in aesthetic and player base I think.

CSM got replacements for their basic troops and old havocs, then a number of characters and a terrain piece. Obliterators, Venomcrawler, and Greater Spawn are only available in the box set (same as Suppressors for SM) Slaanesh Daemons got 3 new characters, Fiends, a Greater Daemon, and a couple terrain pieces. They were literally the last units in the Damon Codex to be updated to plastic besides a couple of named characters. Emperor's Children have 0 plastic models that are specific to them, while World Eaters have the old Berzerkers kit and an updated Kharn.

Space Marines normally get a massive amount of attention release wise, but GW is going about with a multiple month delay in releasing models that they already sell the rules for.

Aesthetics and Playerbase, I'd disagree with EC vs Chaos Marines. Given what has happened to 2 of the 4 god aligned legions so far, it is logical to assume that Emperor's Children will be given a distinctive look from basic CSM in the same way that Rubric Marines or Plague Marines are quite distinct. And so far the pattern for the Aligned Legions has been Primarch, troop box, terminator box, updated named character, box of 3 specialists, and then various clampacks (Death Guard getting a lot more than Thousand Sons)

I would like to see other armies get subfaction books- Kroot, Feral Orks, Exodites, Traitor Guard (as a supplement to Guard) would all be cool. But honestly, I think the bigger priority for some races is getting the remainder of their core units over to plastic, and then expanding from there. Incubi are a good Start for Dark Eldar, As would be Grotesques, Beastmaster menagerie, and Mandrakes. Eldar still need Spears, Scorpions, Hawks, Reapers, Spiders, Fire Dragons, Rangers, and the Avatar in plastic Orks need Tankbustas, Kommandos, and Deff Koptas. Tau need Vespid and Kroot Auxilaries. Nids need Lictors and Ripper Swarms. Necrons need Flayed Ones and possibly Pariahs back.

 Jidmah wrote:

Go ask all the white scars players sitting on their biker armies how well that worked for them.

And ultramarines and iron hands are loving it. Just because ws got short stick doesn't mean all get