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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Can't you just take the all FA force org chart and play a bike army anyway? The Outrider Detachment?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 04:21:35


   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I'm sure dedicated WS players will also suprise us with some fun tricks. but yeah GW's had this odd idea about white scars for awhile in that they keep wanting to make them a melee army.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






The White Scars are probably the least respected Chapter with regards to rules/army builds. There is room in 40K for a "bike army" (outside of Custodes). Bikes for troops, loads of special rules, etc. So much potential and it's never been realized. I think this is a huge miss for the 'splash' books --- an incredibly easy way to have made X unit = troops. This also sadly means Eldar won't get it either.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Elbows wrote:
The White Scars are probably the least respected Chapter with regards to rules/army builds. There is room in 40K for a "bike army" (outside of Custodes). Bikes for troops, loads of special rules, etc. So much potential and it's never been realized. I think this is a huge miss for the 'splash' books --- an incredibly easy way to have made X unit = troops. This also sadly means Eldar won't get it either.


Eldar windriders as troops was a scourge on balance for several editions. Only recently are they more balanced compared to every other biker unit in the game, and they are still decently strong.
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

You mean for 1 edition which was 7th.

Before they were 1 cannon/3 bikes and losing a few models meant whole squad runs to edge of the board at full move or something like that. Together with joined Autarch sometimes, which was p. hilarious.

The only way you could win with all bike Eldar army was mostly about scoring objectives and hoping you won't die.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/17 05:00:42


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Shadenuat wrote:
You mean for 1 edition which was 7th.

Before they were 1 cannon/3 bikes and losing a few models meant whole squad runs to edge of the board at full move or something like that. Together with joined Autarch sometimes, which was p. hilarious.

The only way you could win with all bike Eldar army was mostly about scoring objectives and hoping you won't die.

Exactly. Anyone saying they weren't balanced forgets they existed before 7th edition happened.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Elbows wrote:
The White Scars are probably the least respected Chapter with regards to rules/army builds. There is room in 40K for a "bike army" (outside of Custodes). Bikes for troops, loads of special rules, etc. So much potential and it's never been realized. I think this is a huge miss for the 'splash' books --- an incredibly easy way to have made X unit = troops. This also sadly means Eldar won't get it either.


Then again white scars aren't fluff wise bike army. Their absolute core is wait for it...tactical marine! The guy on foot(and rhino). Not one with bike.q

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/01/tneva82-october-goblins/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

And there's always the risk that White Scar players take when playing all bike armies.

Remember this?

Yes, it's from a few editions ago, but still.

   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Parity. Death guard and thousand sons are as divergent fluff wise as emperors children. Currently you would have capacity for:

Fulgrim
Lucius
Doomrider
Noise marines
Fabius Bile
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons)
The reject experiment marines
Sonic dreads
Subjugators could be repurposed into here
Plus any shared units.


Why do you want "parity" only for Chaos legions? Why can you not see that I want inter-factional parity also?

Dudeface wrote:
All previous existing kits or entries, what speed freaks units are missing?

What would there be capacity for, you mean?

Wazzdakka Gutsmek
Speedlord Supreme Krooldakka
Zagboss Skargrim
Jazgob
Warboss on Bike
Big Mek on Bike (KFF and SAG versions, as well as standard)
Painboy on Bike
Boar Boyz (could be a Snakebite codex instead, or both)
Weirdboy Battle Tower
Speedstas
Battle Fortress
Cyborks

To be fair I'd take a supplement but I don't see why one faction deserves sub faction specific codexes and another does not.

Brian888 wrote:
It's a fair question. Putting aside real-world economic reasons why the DG and TS got their own codexes, the fluff basically says that they need their own codexes because they are substantially different in structure and operation from the other Traitor Legions.

And Evil Sunz are portrayed as completely different to Goffs and completely different to Snakebites in terms of structure etc in the lore. This isn't a Legion or a Marine only phenomenon.


The big issue here and I promise to drop the topic after this, is that you're still comparing apples to oranges.

If you'd said they deserve the same treatment as farsight enclaves, who are a minor divergence from the main codex rules wise and historically are given their own books/rules, then you'd have a point.

Speed freaks are lists based around speed, so bikers, uggies, trucks, battlewagons etc. Which form the core of their forces. All things that already exist with modern kits. The list of units you gave were mostly generic hq's.

Weird boy battle tower - not clan specific, gw painted them as bad moons and goffs
Battlefortress - not clan specific historically, gw paintscheme was goffs
Cyborks - not clan specific historically, also doesn't fit the theme
Boar boyz - snakebite specific
Speedstas - not clan specific

There is no reason why orks can't have codex supplements and I'd welcome them. There is a difference between a faction that can't represent itself properly on the tabletop, due to not having a single core unit and one who is missing afew hq's. A closer comparison would be if people asked for a flesh tearers book.

On topic - money is on the avatar for next week, although knowing GW and their love for doing things in 3's I'd not be shocked if we see something of what has the eldar under threat instead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 06:29:31


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Howling Banshees and Incubi... and it'd be nice if Jain Zar and Drazhar came with them.

Remember a big part of this first bit is the Eldar fighting each other. It'd be great if Harlequins and Ynnari got some new units to flesh out their forces a bit as well. I think that'd really get people's attention.
   
Made in se
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor






So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 07:41:58


 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.

Maybee the rustbuckets of doom?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Why would you want supplement books for the ork codex?

So I can play my clan as it is supposed to be played without completely hamstringing myself so neither my opponent nor me has a good time?

To shake up the meta?

To add more variety to the two primary Ork competitive builds?

Take your pick.


And what exactly do you expect the supplement book to do except charging you extra money for what is basically the vigilus detachment plus what's already in the codex?

Do you really expect it will suck less just because you paid premium for yet another book?

Go ask all the white scars players sitting on their biker armies how well that worked for them.

I think I'll go ask the Iron Hands players how happy they are with their supplement actually.

I think it will potentially 'suck less' (as in, give me the ability to field my army in the way it's actually portrayed) because it will allow a focused set of rules and stratagems bespoke to my clan that should play very differently from a 'standard' Ork green tide.

I expect much more than a Vigilus type detachment. The supplements have had a codex worth of stratagems bespoke to the chapter and 2 sets of relics each.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Why would you want supplement books for the ork codex?

So I can play my clan as it is supposed to be played without completely hamstringing myself so neither my opponent nor me has a good time?

To shake up the meta?

To add more variety to the two primary Ork competitive builds?

Take your pick.


And what exactly do you expect the supplement book to do except charging you extra money for what is basically the vigilus detachment plus what's already in the codex?

Do you really expect it will suck less just because you paid premium for yet another book?

Go ask all the white scars players sitting on their biker armies how well that worked for them.


Speaking of Orks, I think Vigilus worked really well for them. The competitive/tournament Ork armies NOT running a Dread Waaagh are far and few between.

That said, it's a campaign book. There'll be story, linked campaign missions and other goodies.

Also it'll have updated rules for Banshees (including a Ynnari-Banshee variant) and Incubi at the very least.

If there're a few new Strats or Relics and/or possibly even a Doctrine-equivalent for running mono-Craftworld/Drukhari/Harlequins/Ynnari, that'd just be icing on the cake.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Sunny Side Up wrote:
Speaking of Orks, I think Vigilus worked really well for them. The competitive/tournament Ork armies NOT running a Dread Waaagh are far and few between.

I wouldn't call one relic+stratagem so good that it is a must-take next to two utterly two useless detachments "worked well".

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Dudeface wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Parity. Death guard and thousand sons are as divergent fluff wise as emperors children. Currently you would have capacity for:

Fulgrim
Lucius
Doomrider
Noise marines
Fabius Bile
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons)
The reject experiment marines
Sonic dreads
Subjugators could be repurposed into here
Plus any shared units.


Why do you want "parity" only for Chaos legions? Why can you not see that I want inter-factional parity also?

Dudeface wrote:
All previous existing kits or entries, what speed freaks units are missing?

What would there be capacity for, you mean?

Wazzdakka Gutsmek
Speedlord Supreme Krooldakka
Zagboss Skargrim
Jazgob
Warboss on Bike
Big Mek on Bike (KFF and SAG versions, as well as standard)
Painboy on Bike
Boar Boyz (could be a Snakebite codex instead, or both)
Weirdboy Battle Tower
Speedstas
Battle Fortress
Cyborks

To be fair I'd take a supplement but I don't see why one faction deserves sub faction specific codexes and another does not.

Brian888 wrote:
It's a fair question. Putting aside real-world economic reasons why the DG and TS got their own codexes, the fluff basically says that they need their own codexes because they are substantially different in structure and operation from the other Traitor Legions.

And Evil Sunz are portrayed as completely different to Goffs and completely different to Snakebites in terms of structure etc in the lore. This isn't a Legion or a Marine only phenomenon.


The big issue here and I promise to drop the topic after this, is that you're still comparing apples to oranges.

If you'd said they deserve the same treatment as farsight enclaves, who are a minor divergence from the main codex rules wise and historically are given their own books/rules, then you'd have a point.

Speed freaks are lists based around speed, so bikers, uggies, trucks, battlewagons etc. Which form the core of their forces. All things that already exist with modern kits. The list of units you gave were mostly generic hq's.

Weird boy battle tower - not clan specific, gw painted them as bad moons and goffs
Battlefortress - not clan specific historically, gw paintscheme was goffs
Cyborks - not clan specific historically, also doesn't fit the theme
Boar boyz - snakebite specific
Speedstas - not clan specific

There is no reason why orks can't have codex supplements and I'd welcome them. There is a difference between a faction that can't represent itself properly on the tabletop, due to not having a single core unit and one who is missing afew hq's. A closer comparison would be if people asked for a flesh tearers books.


They are exactly the same thing.

Your list has no unique units either, excluding special characters.

Noise marines - not EC specific
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons) - not EC specific
The reject experiment marines - not EC specific
Sonic dreads - not EC specific, weapon option
Subjugators could be repurposed into here - not EC specific

I'm genuinely amazed you think there's a difference here.

As far as I'm concerned EC can represent themselves perfectly on the tabletop, their hallmark unit is the noise marine that exists and can be taken in an EC force. The other units they use are the same as CSM and hence why they belong in the same book. EC are about as unique as Evil Sunz, if not less so.

What you want is for EC to get the TS/DG treatment simply because they have had it. You want a raft of new units with a focus on the Legion and your justification is that your faction can't represent itself 'properly on the tabletop. Which I don't mind by the way. What I find incredible is the fact that you think this is any different or any more justified than my clan (sub faction, exactly like EC) getting exactly the same treatment.

 Jidmah wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Speaking of Orks, I think Vigilus worked really well for them. The competitive/tournament Ork armies NOT running a Dread Waaagh are far and few between.

I wouldn't call one relic+stratagem so good that it is a must-take next to two utterly two useless detachments "worked well".


Agreed. The Dread Waaaaaggghh relic is a crutch to be honest and the other detachments (there were 3, lest we forget the epic fail that is the Stompa Mob) are a complete waste of the paper they are printed on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 09:03:36


 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Go ask all the white scars players sitting on their biker armies how well that worked for them.

I think I'll go ask the Iron Hands players how happy they are with their supplement actually.

I think it will potentially 'suck less' (as in, give me the ability to field my army in the way it's actually portrayed) because it will allow a focused set of rules and stratagems bespoke to my clan that should play very differently from a 'standard' Ork green tide.

I expect much more than a Vigilus type detachment. The supplements have had a codex worth of stratagems bespoke to the chapter and 2 sets of relics each.

Well I hope you love painting checkers, because Goff might be our Iron Hands.

You also need to pay 25 GBP for your codex 17.50 for your Evil Suns book which is best used with walkers, boyz and MANz, and then another 17.50 to get access to the Goff relics and stratagems, which are mind-blowing good and use bikes as their core, plus another 17.50 for the Freebootas book because Flash Gits and Badrukk are gone from the main codex, for a grand total of 77.50 to just keep playing your army. Then Goff get a nerf and you need to shell out another 17.50 to switch to Bad Moons.

So, I'm asking again, why would you want GW to split our codex into eight books for a ~50% chance (marines are 2 hit 2 miss right now) to fix problems instead of just fixing the issues (or failing to do so) in one codex?

Contrary to popular believe, GW's rules don't get better because they spread them across more books.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/17 09:02:30


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.
Seems like every other bland "we're totally screwed but for a tiny chance we're not" prophecy in 40k. Which is a lot of them.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 An Actual Englishman wrote:


Agreed. The Dread Waaaaaggghh relic is a crutch to be honest and the other detachments (there were 3, lest we forget the epic fail that is the Stompa Mob) are a complete waste of the paper they are printed on.


Sounds like some seriously entitled whining.

If the Dread Waaagh is a „crutch“, it‘s still lightyears ahead of what literally every faction got out of that book with the possible exception of GSC and Guard.

Space Wolves? Harlequins? Drukhari? Grey Knights? Sister? Deathwatch? Tau? Etc?

So Orks-Players get their entitled asses pampered with both a hard core competitive Option wrecking tournaments since the release and a few fun things like the Stompa Detachment for Apoc-sized weekend-fun, while most factions couldn’t be spared even a page for the latter, which you arrogantly discard as „waste“ thanks to getting stuffed in just about every way on top of well.

Ork players don’t even know what it means to have bad rules.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Jidmah wrote:

Well I hope you love painting checkers, because Goff might be our Iron Hands.

Despite my attempts to play as competitively as possible, I'm no meta chaser. It makes no odds to me. I'd take the White Scars book over nothing. Any day.

 Jidmah wrote:
You also need to pay 25 GBP for your codex
Got that already.
17.50 for your Evil Suns book which is best used with walkers, boyz and MANz,
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the Evil Sunz book.
and then another 17.50 to get access to the Goff relics and stratagems, which are mind-blowing good and use bikes as their core
This makes no sense.
plus another 17.50 for the Freebootas book because Flash Gits and Badrukk are gone from the main codex, for a grand total of 77.50 to just keep playing your army.
You're just rambling at this point and assuming a number of things that are wrong.
Then Goff get a nerf and you need to shell out another 17.50 to switch to Bad Moons.


Regardless so what? I have disposable income. Enough to buy all of those books. And if they had decent amounts of fluff, were interesting and had fun, THEMATIC rules, I'd absolutely pick them up. They're certainly more worthwhile to me than Chapter Approved.

Also did you not realise this hobby is expensive?

 Jidmah wrote:
So, I'm asking again, why would you want GW to split our codex into eight books for a ~50% chance (marines are 2 hit 2 miss right now) to fix problems instead of just fixing the issues (or failing to do so) in one codex?

Contrary to popular believe, GW's rules don't get better because they spread them across more books.


Because I want more Ork CONTENT dude. It's my schtick. I disagree about Marines being 50/50 hit and miss too - despite some supplements seeming better than others there is no doubt that each and every Marine sub faction has had a buff with their release. Also - buffs for playing a specific sub faction?! Yes please. More of this.

I'm also not primarily concerned with 'better' rules (as in more competitive), what I want is more thematic rules for my army. Rules that are currently missing in the main codex because it is spread too thin.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Sounds like some seriously entitled whining.


You're joking right? We're not whining - you claimed that "Vigilus worked really well for Orks" and we're correcting your misguided, wrong belief with the facts. If you consider 1 relic (for 2 CP) and a singular stratagem worth taking in a book with 4 detachments (only 3 of which I can actually use in normal games) a good investment then let me talk to you about ice, my eskimo friend.

If the Dread Waaagh is a „crutch“, it‘s still lightyears ahead of what literally every faction got out of that book with the possible exception of GSC and Guard.


I mean crutch in that you can't really build a competitive list without it. It shows the weakness of the Ork codex.

Space Wolves? Harlequins? Drukhari? Grey Knights? Sister? Deathwatch? Tau? Etc?

So Orks-Players get their entitled asses pampered with both a hard core competitive Option wrecking tournaments since the release and a few fun things like the Stompa Detachment for Apoc-sized weekend-fun, while most factions couldn’t be spared even a page for the latter, which you arrogantly discard as „waste“ thanks to getting stuffed in just about every way on top of well.

Ork players don’t even know what it means to have bad rules.

Yea, it's better than nothing, no doubt. It's still not great and I wish I hadn't purchased Vigilus 1, the fluff wasn't even worth the read in the end.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 09:30:51


 
   
Made in gb
Commanding Lordling





 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.


Honestly, I'd laugh like a drain if the Ynnari were a sneaky way to introduce Croneworld Eldar.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Burnage wrote:
 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.


Honestly, I'd laugh like a drain if the Ynnari were a sneaky way to introduce Croneworld Eldar.


You never know.

Both parts of the prophecy from the two articles have the same source - a 'Visionary of Alaitoc' called Ylocu Shaie. Ylocu seems to be a new character that hasn't made any significant statements before.

The prophecy also relates only to Phoenix Rising by the looks of things. Hard to say what the threat they are blind to might be? Perhaps a Tyranid threat (with the shadow of the warp representing a psychic blindness) or perhaps simply the threat of mutual destruction through civil war? Tough one.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Burnage wrote:
 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.


Honestly, I'd laugh like a drain if the Ynnari were a sneaky way to introduce Croneworld Eldar.


You never know.

Both parts of the prophecy from the two articles have the same source - a 'Visionary of Alaitoc' called Ylocu Shaie. Ylocu seems to be a new character that hasn't made any significant statements before.

The prophecy also relates only to Phoenix Rising by the looks of things. Hard to say what the threat they are blind to might be? Perhaps a Tyranid threat (with the shadow of the warp representing a psychic blindness) or perhaps simply the threat of mutual destruction through civil war? Tough one.


Going with the simplest answer I would say cw and ynnari at each other’s throats and de decide to attack them both.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Let's just make sure we're still even sliiiightly on topic

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Parity. Death guard and thousand sons are as divergent fluff wise as emperors children. Currently you would have capacity for:

Fulgrim
Lucius
Doomrider
Noise marines
Fabius Bile
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons)
The reject experiment marines
Sonic dreads
Subjugators could be repurposed into here
Plus any shared units.


Why do you want "parity" only for Chaos legions? Why can you not see that I want inter-factional parity also?

Dudeface wrote:
All previous existing kits or entries, what speed freaks units are missing?

What would there be capacity for, you mean?

Wazzdakka Gutsmek
Speedlord Supreme Krooldakka
Zagboss Skargrim
Jazgob
Warboss on Bike
Big Mek on Bike (KFF and SAG versions, as well as standard)
Painboy on Bike
Boar Boyz (could be a Snakebite codex instead, or both)
Weirdboy Battle Tower
Speedstas
Battle Fortress
Cyborks

To be fair I'd take a supplement but I don't see why one faction deserves sub faction specific codexes and another does not.

Brian888 wrote:
It's a fair question. Putting aside real-world economic reasons why the DG and TS got their own codexes, the fluff basically says that they need their own codexes because they are substantially different in structure and operation from the other Traitor Legions.

And Evil Sunz are portrayed as completely different to Goffs and completely different to Snakebites in terms of structure etc in the lore. This isn't a Legion or a Marine only phenomenon.


The big issue here and I promise to drop the topic after this, is that you're still comparing apples to oranges.

If you'd said they deserve the same treatment as farsight enclaves, who are a minor divergence from the main codex rules wise and historically are given their own books/rules, then you'd have a point.

Speed freaks are lists based around speed, so bikers, uggies, trucks, battlewagons etc. Which form the core of their forces. All things that already exist with modern kits. The list of units you gave were mostly generic hq's.

Weird boy battle tower - not clan specific, gw painted them as bad moons and goffs
Battlefortress - not clan specific historically, gw paintscheme was goffs
Cyborks - not clan specific historically, also doesn't fit the theme
Boar boyz - snakebite specific
Speedstas - not clan specific

There is no reason why orks can't have codex supplements and I'd welcome them. There is a difference between a faction that can't represent itself properly on the tabletop, due to not having a single core unit and one who is missing afew hq's. A closer comparison would be if people asked for a flesh tearers books.


They are exactly the same thing.

Your list has no unique units either, excluding special characters.

Noise marines - not EC specific
Kakophoni (heavy sonic weapons) - not EC specific
The reject experiment marines - not EC specific
Sonic dreads - not EC specific, weapon option
Subjugators could be repurposed into here - not EC specific

I'm genuinely amazed you think there's a difference here.

As far as I'm concerned EC can represent themselves perfectly on the tabletop, their hallmark unit is the noise marine that exists and can be taken in an EC force. The other units they use are the same as CSM and hence why they belong in the same book. EC are about as unique as Evil Sunz, if not less so.

What you want is for EC to get the TS/DG treatment simply because they have had it. You want a raft of new units with a focus on the Legion and your justification is that your faction can't represent itself 'properly on the tabletop. Which I don't mind by the way. What I find incredible is the fact that you think this is any different or any more justified than my clan (sub faction, exactly like EC) getting exactly the same treatment.

 Jidmah wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Speaking of Orks, I think Vigilus worked really well for them. The competitive/tournament Ork armies NOT running a Dread Waaagh are far and few between.

I wouldn't call one relic+stratagem so good that it is a must-take next to two utterly two useless detachments "worked well".


Agreed. The Dread Waaaaaggghh relic is a crutch to be honest and the other detachments (there were 3, lest we forget the epic fail that is the Stompa Mob) are a complete waste of the paper they are printed on.


Again, I don't have nor want to play emperors children. It's not "my faction".

Happy to end the debate but I have no personal investment in a faction being fleshed out, just I see it as hole in the current setting and range.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






SeanDrake wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Burnage wrote:
 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.


Honestly, I'd laugh like a drain if the Ynnari were a sneaky way to introduce Croneworld Eldar.


You never know.

Both parts of the prophecy from the two articles have the same source - a 'Visionary of Alaitoc' called Ylocu Shaie. Ylocu seems to be a new character that hasn't made any significant statements before.

The prophecy also relates only to Phoenix Rising by the looks of things. Hard to say what the threat they are blind to might be? Perhaps a Tyranid threat (with the shadow of the warp representing a psychic blindness) or perhaps simply the threat of mutual destruction through civil war? Tough one.


Going with the simplest answer I would say cw and ynnari at each other’s throats and de decide to attack them both.

Possibly but Burnage does raise an interesting point about Croneworld Eldar. I did a quick google-fu research as it's been a looong time since I knew all the Eldar fluff and a few things stood out to me as very interesting;

1. They are the only source of new spirit stones. Haven't all of the new Ynnari models got a ton of spirit stones all over them, the Avatar of Ynnead is literally in a vortex of them?
2. The resident trapped souls (Aeldari) desperately yearn for the sweet release of death. Aren't the Ynnari utterly focused on death?
3. One of the Ynnari already use the a Crone Sword they took from a Crone World.

Hmmmm. Not a bad shout Burnage. Even if there is no direct fluff link between the Ynarri and Croneworlds there is certainly a thematic one.

On another note, the ruins our banshees are leaping over are very similar in appearance to the broken ruin from the Avatar of Ynnead model.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Burnage wrote:
 Fayric wrote:
So, do anyone care about the prophecy at all?

There is apparently a threath they dont se even as they stare in to oblivion. Also the prophecy has lots of paralells to the great fall and birth of she who thirsts.

I suppose ynnari was really a trick of Slaanesh after all. What other threat would they be blind to?
Surely, the feud between aeldari factions dont qualify for such doomsayings.


Honestly, I'd laugh like a drain if the Ynnari were a sneaky way to introduce Croneworld Eldar.


You never know.

Both parts of the prophecy from the two articles have the same source - a 'Visionary of Alaitoc' called Ylocu Shaie. Ylocu seems to be a new character that hasn't made any significant statements before.

The prophecy also relates only to Phoenix Rising by the looks of things. Hard to say what the threat they are blind to might be? Perhaps a Tyranid threat (with the shadow of the warp representing a psychic blindness) or perhaps simply the threat of mutual destruction through civil war? Tough one.


Going with the simplest answer I would say cw and ynnari at each other’s throats and de decide to attack them both.

Possibly but Burnage does raise an interesting point about Croneworld Eldar. I did a quick google-fu research as it's been a looong time since I knew all the Eldar fluff and a few things stood out to me as very interesting;

1. They are the only source of new spirit stones. Haven't all of the new Ynnari models got a ton of spirit stones all over them, the Avatar of Ynnead is literally in a vortex of them?
2. The resident trapped souls (Aeldari) desperately yearn for the sweet release of death. Aren't the Ynnari utterly focused on death?
3. One of the Ynnari already use the a Crone Sword they took from a Crone World.

Hmmmm. Not a bad shout Burnage. Even if there is no direct fluff link between the Ynarri and Croneworlds there is certainly a thematic one.

On another note, the ruins our banshees are leaping over are very similar in appearance to the broken ruin from the Avatar of Ynnead model.


I still think it’s likely to be a more simple answer but I guess other spikey elder could be a thing. But in answer to you points from my knowledge of the older fluff and gathering storm.

1. Not sure as I don’t remember that particular bit of fluff but I don’t remember a shortage of stones ever being mentioned and the value is normally considered high once there’s an elder in it not before although there is symbolism in them as they are given at birth.

2. Not really the infinity circuit and stones provide a shadowy but not unpleasant existence a bit like being sedated or half asleep. Ynnari provides a solution to that anyway in that they can bring wraith constructs etc back to full sentience and a proper existence.

3. The crone swords are nothing to do with the croneworlds directly, they are named after the goddess the crone but one is/was on a crone world but that was it.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in se
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor






GW threatened to reveal some old mysteries from the fluff with this campaign -perhaps Altansar finally takes off their helmets.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Warhammer Community wrote:Check back next Monday for part 3 of this prophecy – and a miniature reveal that you simply can’t afford to miss!


Fixed that for you Warhammer Community.

Jokes aside. I'm stoked for more plastic Eldar. Great fodder for corsair conversions. Although it's a complete longshot since they seem to be focused on building up the Ynnari, a little corsair love would be appreciated, even if just by Forgeworld.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 13:50:01


 
   
Made in se
Flower Picking Eldar Youth




Gothenburg, Sweden

I'm wondering if we will also get plastic Striking Scorpions & plastic Mandrakes as they are also usable in Killteam.
   
 
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