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I think there are several factors that have gone into this abortion of a pricing scheme:

1) The dual-army boxes (as least for Age of Sigmar) sell out within hours. When demand outstrips supply, it is usually an indication that you are pricing your product too low - and this is probably true of the AoS boxes. But I don't think demand is a linear curve. The demand does not evenly change with the price. I think there's a point of no return where demand basically flatlines, where you give up a critical mass of customers and instead focus only on the few, rich whales for success. This can support a niche game like Adeptus Titanicus, but it is a poor idea for a flagship product that needs that critical mass of customers to consume a constant, weekly stream of new products.

2) This is intended to be a collector's item, rather than an evergreen product. All the items inside it will be sold separately at some point in the (likely distant) future. Collector's items can be used to prop up a declining business, as you can artificially increase the profit of your product as the demand shrinks. Of course, as comic books have taught us, leaning too heavily on a collector's market can ultimately crash when the collectors realize that their possessions are only valuable to other collectors, and they've got it too.

What confuses me is that making more money from fewer customers is usually something seen in a declining company (like GW a few years ago), but GW is doing better than ever. Also, since everything in this box will be available separately six months or a year from now, this isn't much of a deal, even including the moderate discount - other than an experiment on pricing, I can't fathom why they would make people pay this much for a box that has so much stuff that people don't want. The Sisters of Battle box will probably be US$400+, though.

3) Brexit. GW is crapping their pants at how Brexit will affect their global business, and they are pricing things in a way that they think will not be devastating to their bottom line, in the worst possible outcome. Will it work? Not a chance in hell. The cost of their goods going up won't safeguard GW's place in the marketplace, it will destroy it. GW is going to price themselves out of the marketplace.

They release so much stuff a month to a singular audience that if they start charging two months worth of hobby budget for a single product, how are they going to sell anything the other seven weeks? I think you can really only ask a typical hobby consumer for about $100-$150 a month, maybe up to $200 for people like me with poor money management skills and are easily excitable. Anything more than that and you start to cannibalize your own sales, as customers have to choose between the things they buy rather than just buying all of it. I thought GW was already past their limit with the Warcry stuff, paying $90 for a ravaged land, $30 for a book, and another $50 for a box of miniatures in a single week - but then two weeks later, they ask for $230 for a single product. I think they've managed to walk the tightrope well so far, but I think they've fallen off and done the one thing they should never do as a company - make their consumers realize that they don't need their products anymore.

"Last year we doubled our profit, let's do that again!".That'd explain the price.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I know! Who would bother to buy Dark Imperium AND Know No Fear? They are essentially the same box.

I did given I wanted another 5 man intercessor and hellblaster squad and thus it was cheaper to just buy Know no fear then buy the respective boxes.

Same, but for the Nurgle side. That I also got a good start to Primaris army was essentially a free bonus. The only unnecessary things from buying them both are the two commanders. Everything else is very usable in the respective armies.

Stormonu wrote:Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. This will sell out, due to "Fear of Missing Out", and it will only encourage GW to price the next one even higher.

I don't agree- this isn't a collectors item, this isn't even vaguely special. Its worth noting that Wrath and Ruin tried to pull this same thing, and of all the boxed sets over the last few years, it is still around for sale on the website. Both Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead lasted a good long while too, and the contents there were far more reasonable to the price.

It admittedly worked with the AoS stuff, but those boxed barely lasted the weekend, and those commander models have never been seen again.

These models aren't that good, aren't that useful, and GW doesn't actively bury 40k models the way it does AoS models. There isn't anything to miss out on. At most, there is a wait, adn the old versions of these models haven't even disappeared yet. (And the quality difference between the metal and new plastics isn't immense- at least not for the units.

There's zero reason to rush out and blow a wad of money on this box.

I'd consider getting just Jain Zar at this point, as mentioned, she's going to cost $35 anyway. However, what has GW done to inentivize this purchase? She's trash game-wise....so why even part with that money to begin with? heck, at this point in time I'm not even pre-ordering Phoenix Rising. I will need to see a lot of reviews before I decide if this one is worth it.

 bullyboy wrote:
I'd consider getting just Jain Zar at this point, as mentioned, she's going to cost $35 anyway. However, what has GW done to inentivize this purchase? She's trash game-wise....so why even part with that money to begin with? heck, at this point in time I'm not even pre-ordering Phoenix Rising. I will need to see a lot of reviews before I decide if this one is worth it.

Best part is, you couldn't even play the narrative campaign/story of the book where Vect get's mad at the Ynnari and sends out all the Incubi and Jain Zar (and Yriel) join the Ynnari and thus come into a fight with Drazhar and the Incub by the current rules, as Jain Zar cannot actually be Ynnari, lol.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think there are several factors that have gone into this abortion of a pricing scheme:

1) The dual-army boxes (as least for Age of Sigmar) sell out within hours. When demand outstrips supply, it is usually an indication that you are pricing your product too low - and this is probably true of the AoS boxes. But I don't think demand is a linear curve. The demand does not evenly change with the price. I think there's a point of no return where demand basically flatlines, where you give up a critical mass of customers and instead focus only on the few, rich whales for success. This can support a niche game like Adeptus Titanicus, but it is a poor idea for a flagship product that needs that critical mass of customers to consume a constant, weekly stream of new products.

2) This is intended to be a collector's item, rather than an evergreen product. All the items inside it will be sold separately at some point in the (likely distant) future. Collector's items can be used to prop up a declining business, as you can artificially increase the profit of your product as the demand shrinks. Of course, as comic books have taught us, leaning too heavily on a collector's market can ultimately crash when the collectors realize that their possessions are only valuable to other collectors, and they've got it too.

What confuses me is that making more money from fewer customers is usually something seen in a declining company (like GW a few years ago), but GW is doing better than ever. Also, since everything in this box will be available separately six months or a year from now, this isn't much of a deal, even including the moderate discount - other than an experiment on pricing, I can't fathom why they would make people pay this much for a box that has so much stuff that people don't want. The Sisters of Battle box will probably be US$400+, though.

3) Brexit. GW is crapping their pants at how Brexit will affect their global business, and they are pricing things in a way that they think will not be devastating to their bottom line, in the worst possible outcome. Will it work? Not a chance in hell. The cost of their goods going up won't safeguard GW's place in the marketplace, it will destroy it. GW is going to price themselves out of the marketplace.

They release so much stuff a month to a singular audience that if they start charging two months worth of hobby budget for a single product, how are they going to sell anything the other seven weeks? I think you can really only ask a typical hobby consumer for about $100-$150 a month, maybe up to $200 for people like me with poor money management skills and are easily excitable. Anything more than that and you start to cannibalize your own sales, as customers have to choose between the things they buy rather than just buying all of it. I thought GW was already past their limit with the Warcry stuff, paying $90 for a ravaged land, $30 for a book, and another $50 for a box of miniatures in a single week - but then two weeks later, they ask for $230 for a single product. I think they've managed to walk the tightrope well so far, but I think they've fallen off and done the one thing they should never do as a company - make their consumers realize that they don't need their products anymore.

A large quote just to say, I mostly agree but there is no way the sisters box would or could be $400+ USD. That would be complete madness for what you get in the box. At that point I'd say GW has gone beyond being greedy into straight up malicious to their customer base. To try and rip off a base so excited for a release that they have to realize the people want. They said they knew we wanted it, to then rake us over the coals for it ? That would be a step too far for me.

edit: mispost

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think there are several factors that have gone into this abortion of a pricing scheme:

1) The dual-army boxes (as least for Age of Sigmar) sell out within hours. When demand outstrips supply, it is usually an indication that you are pricing your product too low - and this is probably true of the AoS boxes. But I don't think demand is a linear curve. The demand does not evenly change with the price. I think there's a point of no return where demand basically flatlines, where you give up a critical mass of customers and instead focus only on the few, rich whales for success. This can support a niche game like Adeptus Titanicus, but it is a poor idea for a flagship product that needs that critical mass of customers to consume a constant, weekly stream of new products.

You're correct in that demand isn't a linear curve. I believe the theorem that describes this is 'elasticity of demand' but I could be wrong, its been a good 10 years since I studied economics

Either way you are absolutely correct in that the previous boxed sets selling out for GW mean that they likely priced them too low.

2) This is intended to be a collector's item, rather than an evergreen product. The Sisters of Battle box will probably be US$400+, though.

I'm not sure GW see this as a collectors item to be honest. All of the items will be released separately later, or already are.

The SoB box will certainly be expensive as GW believe there is demand for the product. I don't think it will be stupid money though.

3) Brexit. GW is crapping their pants at how Brexit will affect their global business, and they are pricing things in a way that they think will not be devastating to their bottom line, in the worst possible outcome. Will it work? Not a chance in hell. The cost of their goods going up won't safeguard GW's place in the marketplace, it will destroy it. GW is going to price themselves out of the marketplace.

I think Brexit has a part to play in this. The UK price, though expensive, is nowhere near as unreasonable. I suspect that changing exchange rates, the relative increase in costs and shipping/import fees have impacted on GWs pricing model.

The final piece of this pricing puzzle is that GW have simply overestimated demand. As we have seen - many Eldar players aren't too fussed on the new models. The new rules look pathetic in comparison to the marines. The bundle of models in the box is also uninspired for both factions, many players don't need and have no desire for more Falcons, Vypers or Hellions.

This may have seemed more attractive if we weren't in the middle of a massive SM overhaul with a glut of new models and rules. Unfortunately it seems that one design group hasn't spoken to the other while this set for PA and the Marine updates were developed so the rules, and models, look very, very unattractive. Then add to this an inflated price. It's a perfect storm of reasons not to buy, really.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think there are several factors that have gone into this abortion of a pricing scheme:
[...]

A large quote just to say, I mostly agree but there is no way the sisters box would or could be $400+ USD. That would be complete madness for what you get in the box. At that point I'd say GW has gone beyond being greedy into straight up malicious to their customer base. To try and rip off a base so excited for a release that they have to realize the people want. They said they knew we wanted it, to then rake us over the coals for it ? That would be a step too far for me.

It could very well be priced at US$ 400+ if they price it at £250 (using current GW exchange rates), which is the "value" of said boxset as disclosed in the WHCommunity Survey earlier this year:

[...]
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
[...]

£250 -> €325 -> US$418

Elasticity of demand is the relative variation of the demand of a specific good in relation to the evolution of its price. If it is negative, which most good are supposed to be, demand for a good decrease when its price increase.
For GW there is a good chance that their product are inelastic to a certain degree : when price goes up, demand doesn't change or very little.

WhiteDog wrote:
Elasticity of demand is the relative variation of the demand of a specific good in relation to the evolution of its price. If it is negative, which most good are supposed to be, demand for a good decrease when its price increase.
For GW there is a good chance that their product are inelastic to a certain degree : when price goes up, demand doesn't change or very little.

Right you are! Its been a while since I studied and I couldn't be bothered with a google search.

I think you're right with the inelastic nature of GW sales generally too but I also think there's a tipping point where demand just drops off a cliff. This box is likely past the tipping point.

 Sqorgar wrote:
They release so much stuff a month to a singular audience that if they start charging two months worth of hobby budget for a single product, how are they going to sell anything the other seven weeks? I think you can really only ask a typical hobby consumer for about $100-$150 a month, maybe up to $200 for people like me with poor money management skills and are easily excitable. Anything more than that and you start to cannibalize your own sales, as customers have to choose between the things they buy rather than just buying all of it.

And once the reflex to purchase is interupted,
one might choose to not buy at all.

My thoughts (and position) exactly.
Exalted!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Elasticity of demand is the relative variation of the demand of a specific good in relation to the evolution of its price. If it is negative, which most good are supposed to be, demand for a good decrease when its price increase.
For GW there is a good chance that their product are inelastic to a certain degree : when price goes up, demand doesn't change or very little.

Right you are! Its been a while since I studied and I couldn't be bothered with a google search.

I think you're right with the inelastic nature of GW sales generally too but I also think there's a tipping point where demand just drops off a cliff. This box is likely past the tipping point.

Maybe, just maybe,
GW is in the business of saving marriages!

Case in point.

At the store: Wow! Love it! Need it!... huh? 230Euro? For... OK. A vyper. WTF?

OR

At the store: Wow! Love it! Need it! huh? 150Euro? And I get a vyper! Hot I will get one for my wife for her birthday!






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aenar wrote:

£250 -> €325 -> US$418

If that new box is priced at 325Euro, I will not be buying it.
Really, I won't.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Elasticity of demand is the relative variation of the demand of a specific good in relation to the evolution of its price. If it is negative, which most good are supposed to be, demand for a good decrease when its price increase.
For GW there is a good chance that their product are inelastic to a certain degree : when price goes up, demand doesn't change or very little.

Right you are! Its been a while since I studied and I couldn't be bothered with a google search.

I think you're right with the inelastic nature of GW sales generally too but I also think there's a tipping point where demand just drops off a cliff. This box is likely past the tipping point.

Forgetting about elasticity isn't such a loss tho (I teach econ).

I also think GW's product are not infinitly inelastic and that there is necessarily a tipping point. But at the same time, some of their very expensive items are still sold, like limited edition rule books, for reasons that just don't seem to understand,

Ordered the book.

Looking forward to ploughing through the new background!

But yeah. Box price?

I say thee nay.

Well, I just ordered the box through a discounter - if it weren't for that I wouldn't have purchased it.

Now for a conciliatory tea of shame

Scab! Scab! Scab! Scab!

If I weren't wrapped up with Bonereaper addiction I'd be all over that boxed set. Then again I can safely say that as someone without any Eldar at all.

€180 for that... GW really have lost the plot. Even at €120 it'd get a hard pass and be too expensive.

Looks like GW has let there mask slip and gone full Kirby again.
I hope SoB players are starting to lube up now ready for the most expensive etb kit ever.

At least the new rules for the Incubi and Draz aren't too bad.

SeanDrake wrote:
Looks like GW has let there mask slip and gone full Kirby again.
I hope SoB players are starting to lube up now ready for the most expensive etb kit ever.

Considering the SoB box is going to contain a limited edition codex as well, it's going to have to be outrageously expensive even compared to this.

Well, either that, or it'll turn out that GW just decided to charge a random premium for Eldar players wanting plastic updates.

WhiteDog wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Elasticity of demand is the relative variation of the demand of a specific good in relation to the evolution of its price. If it is negative, which most good are supposed to be, demand for a good decrease when its price increase.
For GW there is a good chance that their product are inelastic to a certain degree : when price goes up, demand doesn't change or very little.

Right you are! Its been a while since I studied and I couldn't be bothered with a google search.

I think you're right with the inelastic nature of GW sales generally too but I also think there's a tipping point where demand just drops off a cliff. This box is likely past the tipping point.

Forgetting about elasticity isn't such a loss tho (I teach econ).

I also think GW's product are not infinitly inelastic and that there is necessarily a tipping point. But at the same time, some of their very expensive items are still sold, like limited edition rule books, for reasons that just don't seem to understand,

Lol true on all accounts. I suspect that their market is full of relatively wealthy people with a fair bit of nostalgia for the good old days and they/we can afford to spend a few extra pounds on limited edition stuff.

I don't understand how the massively expensive titan pieces sell though. Such as warlords and the like.

It's a social experiment, , they got away with price hike one too many time, highly doubt this one would be different, box would sold out, price keep hiking.

Chopstick wrote:
It's a social experiment, , they got away with price hike one too many time, highly doubt this one would be different, box would sold out, price keep hiking.

Pretty much I think they have been slowly creeping prices up since Kirby got the boot and project nuGW got started looking for the tipping point.

The SoB box will be AUD$500 because it has a ltd ed Codex in it.

Anyway, in rebellion of this nonsense I went and got me some Mechanicum stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The SoB box will be AUD$500 because it has a ltd ed Codex in it.

Anyway, in rebellion of this nonsense I went and got me some Mechanicum stuff.

Back in the day all those Death Storm, Death Masque e.t.c come with a big and thick rulebook, with special cover related to that box set. , also cardboard and cards were free, nowaday cardboard and card are more expensive than the plastic.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Anyway, in rebellion of this nonsense I went and got me some Mechanicum stuff.

Lol this is the worst rebellion ever dude!

HBMC - "Take this GW you fools! My money!! Mwahahahaha those idiots will never see this coming!"
GW HQ, a shadowy figure sits while stroking a cat that purrs, ever so gently - "Just. As. Planned."

Aenar wrote:

Spoiler:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think there are several factors that have gone into this abortion of a pricing scheme:
[...]

A large quote just to say, I mostly agree but there is no way the sisters box would or could be $400+ USD. That would be complete madness for what you get in the box. At that point I'd say GW has gone beyond being greedy into straight up malicious to their customer base. To try and rip off a base so excited for a release that they have to realize the people want. They said they knew we wanted it, to then rake us over the coals for it ? That would be a step too far for me.

It could very well be priced at US$ 400+ if they price it at £250 (using current GW exchange rates), which is the "value" of said boxset as disclosed in the WHCommunity Survey earlier this year:

[...]
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
[...]

£250 -> €325 -> US$418

Unless I am missing something, that text does not state that the "army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures" is the new boxset. The other prizes are based on separately released normal boxes (a squad of 10 Sisters of Battle), and there is no particular reason to believe the grand prize is not a collection of the various new boxes, rather than the single boxset with easy to build figures.

Burnage wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Looks like GW has let there mask slip and gone full Kirby again.
I hope SoB players are starting to lube up now ready for the most expensive etb kit ever.
[...]

Considering the SoB box is going to contain a limited edition codex as well, it's going to have to be outrageously expensive even compared to this.

It's not much of a limited edition codex, just the regular book with a different cover. I don't much keep track of limited edition codices, but I was under the impression they are at least a bit more special than that to warrant the increased price tag.

So gw reccomends the eldar box now to "Kickstart" an ynnari army?

Remind me, what have i told you:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's not much of a limited edition codex, just the regular book with a different cover. I don't much keep track of limited edition codices, but I was under the impression they are at least a bit more special than that to warrant the increased price tag.

It's my understanding that limited edition codex's are just different covers, and sometimes bundled in tokens or cards. So the sister one fits the bill.