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You know even if they did get new legion traits they probably still wouldn't work on demon engines cause there's nothing space marine in there.

 Alpharius wrote:

Personally I think anything with at least 2 wounds makes it generally worthwhile, going from toughness 4-5 on a multi wound unit is a huge buff vs small arms fire.

Pete, is that you?

I'm sorry I think you may have me confused with someone else.

BrianDavion wrote:
rtememebr angron broke the weapons, and then was all like "meh whatever don't care" then Kharn took em and repaired em. making use of one

Oh I know, but it just seems so random that Joe Blow Chaos Dude can end up walking around with frickin' Gorefather of all things.

I 'spose it could be worse, like the Snowflake Blade.

 Rydria wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Personally I think anything with at least 2 wounds makes it generally worthwhile, going from toughness 4-5 on a multi wound unit is a huge buff vs small arms fire.

Pete, is that you?

I'm sorry I think you may have me confused with someone else.

You'll have to forgive Alpha. He's making a wonderful reference to the old days of the Chaos 3.5 Codex, where 1KSons guys got W2 but were still the worst sub-army in the entire 'Dex. Pete Haines, the writer of the Codex and a man who totally didn't make his own Iron Warriors the most powerful sub-army in the book, is quoted as saying "Ultimately and army with 2 wounds each has a lot going for it". It's something of an infamous saying for those of us who were around at the time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I 'spose it could be worse, like the Snowflake Blade.

Jesus that man writes a lot of gak. I can't fathom why people rate him as a author.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

those CSM players proably set their expectations too high then. what's been previewed pretty much exactly what I expected.

I think it's more the case that csm players has been holding out for a real rework for so long at this point to fix the underlying issues with the codex, through CA18, big FAQs, vigilus, csm 2.0 and now FnF. For me at least it's been smoldering for quite a long while now that they absolutely refuse to do something about it but instead put a new ribbon on our head trying to pretend there isn't any issues going into this new 2.0-codex world.

For instance I don't neccessarily think the legion traits are what's gonna make or break the army but rather interactions like endless cacaphony, votlw and how those two adjust the pricing on every option that can make use of them as an example.

I think that this has been a long time coming and people are now starting to show their disgruntlement on facebook. That being said, there's a lot of neat stuff that they previewed but I don't believe it's going to be anything that's going to make the faction incredibly more competitive in this particular meta. I'm curious to see the rest though, but I'm not going to buy the book unless it offers more than band-aids.

Edit: That being said, the real travesty is not giving Ghaz'kull a new model last Orktober nor throwing them a bone this one. I think we'd all be fine with them getting one model reworked every october even if there's not a new codex looming.

Gidun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

those CSM players proably set their expectations too high then. what's been previewed pretty much exactly what I expected.

I think it's more the case that csm players has been holding out for a real rework for so long at this point to fix the underlying issues with the codex, through CA18, big FAQs, vigilus, csm 2.0 and now FnF. For me at least it's been smoldering for quite a long while now that they absolutely refuse to do something about it but instead put a new ribbon on our head trying to pretend there isn't any issues going into this new 2.0-codex world.

For instance I don't neccessarily think the legion traits are what's gonna make or break the army but rather interactions like endless cacaphony, votlw and how those two adjust the pricing on every option that can make use of them as an example.

I think that this has been a long time coming and people are now starting to show their disgruntlement on facebook. That being said, there's a lot of neat stuff that they previewed but I don't believe it's going to be anything that's going to make the faction incredibly more competitive in this particular meta. I'm curious to see the rest though, but I'm not going to buy the book unless it offers more than band-aids.

Edit: That being said, the real travesty is not giving Ghaz'kull a new model last Orktober nor throwing them a bone this one. I think we'd all be fine with them getting one model reworked every october even if there's not a new codex looming.

Correct. We've been waiting ~11 years, since the 4th ed/5th ed codex came out and killed Legions. I'd still be happy if they just brought back the 3.5 dex with a few updates for 8th.

Gidun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

those CSM players proably set their expectations too high then. what's been previewed pretty much exactly what I expected.

I think it's more the case that csm players has been holding out for a real rework for so long at this point to fix the underlying issues with the codex, through CA18, big FAQs, vigilus, csm 2.0 and now FnF. For me at least it's been smoldering for quite a long while now that they absolutely refuse to do something about it but instead put a new ribbon on our head trying to pretend there isn't any issues going into this new 2.0-codex world.

For instance I don't neccessarily think the legion traits are what's gonna make or break the army but rather interactions like endless cacaphony, votlw and how those two adjust the pricing on every option that can make use of them as an example.

I think that this has been a long time coming and people are now starting to show their disgruntlement on facebook. That being said, there's a lot of neat stuff that they previewed but I don't believe it's going to be anything that's going to make the faction incredibly more competitive in this particular meta. I'm curious to see the rest though, but I'm not going to buy the book unless it offers more than band-aids.

Edit: That being said, the real travesty is not giving Ghaz'kull a new model last Orktober nor throwing them a bone this one. I think we'd all be fine with them getting one model reworked every october even if there's not a new codex looming.

I'm hoping for at some point later in PA that we get an Armageddon campaign book with Orks, IG, and Khorne getting a focus. Ghazkull and missing kits like kommandos, tankbustas, and wyrdboyz, Angron, and World Eaters, Steel Legion infantry and a redone basilisk/medusa kit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
rtememebr angron broke the weapons, and then was all like "meh whatever don't care" then Kharn took em and repaired em. making use of one

Oh I know, but it just seems so random that Joe Blow Chaos Dude can end up walking around with frickin' Gorefather of all things.

I 'spose it could be worse, like the Snowflake Blade.

ahh but it';s NOT in the hands of Joe Blow chaos dude. it's in the hands of YOUR Chaos Dude. the greatest chaos dude to ever be a chaos dude in the history of dudes!

Well Angron doesn't care about Gorefather anymore so yeah anyone who can get their hands on it can use it.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

I mean, is it that unsurprising?

Wouldn't you be salty if there were a second ork faction that paid 6ppm per boy, and their boy also had a gun, a choppa and BS4+ instead of your 7pts one?
Wouldn't you get even more salty if the other dex doesn't even use these boyz because they got EVEN better boyz for whatever reason?

Well, viability aside, I think the new Traits and Strats capture the fluff perfectly! A Nightlord isolating the enemy commander, cutting of his vox leaving him helpless, Alpha Legion causing explosions in the ranks of the enemy.

Waaaghbert wrote:
Well, viability aside, I think the new Traits and Strats capture the fluff perfectly! A Nightlord isolating the enemy commander, cutting of his vox leaving him helpless, Alpha Legion causing explosions in the ranks of the enemy.

Yeah, do you also repair a bridge by painting over rotten wooden plates on a bridge instead of replacing them and improving structural integrity?

Not Online!!! wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
Well, viability aside, I think the new Traits and Strats capture the fluff perfectly! A Nightlord isolating the enemy commander, cutting of his vox leaving him helpless, Alpha Legion causing explosions in the ranks of the enemy.

Yeah, do you also repair a bridge by painting over rotten wooden plates on a bridge instead of replacing them and improving structural integrity?

That's why I said "viability aside". I'm not saying I'm happy with the stuff CSM, Eldar or Orks got (I'm not interessted in loyalist marines in any way, so I feel you), but I always like it when rules reflect the background. And these shown rules actually do. Word Bearers ARE lead by High ranking Dark Apostles, Night Lords DO mess with the enemy Vox. It's better done than "-1 to Hit" for Alpha Legion, which -at least for me- makes no sense backgroundwise.

Yes I agree, reworked traits would be way cooler, but that does not make my statement false.

 xttz wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

GW could announce a free solid gold space marine for every player and someone would post on Facebook to complain they're not Orks

Reading is a useful skill to have on a forum. You'll note I was talking about CSM (Chaos Space Marine) players.

I think some/many of the complaints are justified. Their mirror faction gets a ton of buffs including the often requested 'traits on vehicles like every other faction please' and they get nothing? Balanced.

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
Well, viability aside, I think the new Traits and Strats capture the fluff perfectly! A Nightlord isolating the enemy commander, cutting of his vox leaving him helpless, Alpha Legion causing explosions in the ranks of the enemy.

Yeah, do you also repair a bridge by painting over rotten wooden plates on a bridge instead of replacing them and improving structural integrity?

That's why I said "viability aside". I'm not saying I'm happy with the stuff CSM, Eldar or Orks got (I'm not interessted in loyalist marines in any way, so I feel you), but I always like it when rules reflect the background. And these shown rules actually do. Word Bearers ARE lead by High ranking Dark Apostles, Night Lords DO mess with the enemy Vox. It's better done than "-1 to Hit" for Alpha Legion, which -at least for me- makes no sense backgroundwise.

Yes I agree, reworked traits would be way cooler, but that does not make my statement false.

Yeah, i don't disagree with that, but considering what NEEDED to be redone (army traits) and what got done instead (Warlord traits and stratagems and relics) was missing the point imo.

Also the eldar portion of PA is somehow even more of a joke then the CSM side, (especially for DE) which makes this whole thing moronical from the get go....

Not Online!!! wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

I mean, is it that unsurprising?

Wouldn't you be salty if there were a second ork faction that paid 6ppm per boy, and their boy also had a gun, a choppa and BS4+ instead of your 7pts one?
Wouldn't you get even more salty if the other dex doesn't even use these boyz because they got EVEN better boyz for whatever reason?

Its not surprising and I would absolutely be salty if I were a CSM player and this was it in terms of an update. Then again I think any faction is justified for expressing salt if they don't get SM supplement style releases.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Hot damn it's salty on the 40k facebook page.

CSM players are not reacting well. Not at all.

I mean, is it that unsurprising?

Wouldn't you be salty if there were a second ork faction that paid 6ppm per boy, and their boy also had a gun, a choppa and BS4+ instead of your 7pts one?
Wouldn't you get even more salty if the other dex doesn't even use these boyz because they got EVEN better boyz for whatever reason?

Its not surprising and I would absolutely be salty if I were a CSM player and this was it in terms of an update. Then again I think any faction is justified for expressing salt if they don't get SM supplement style releases.

honestly, no faction should'0ve gotten them until the factions were balanced torwards another propperly. (e.g. No GK left)


Edit: Also that FB is really preety salty.

Well, at least we know they are keeping up with their ability to require FAQs on certain things from day 1!

For example, the AL strat means that when used on something like a Rhino, you need to roll a natural 3 in order for it to explode, due to explosions happening on natural 6's only for the vast majority of things. Obviously not RAI, but, it's clear from a RAW pov.

There are some interesting things in the preview, so i'll hold judgement until we see the full online reviews, but, as others have said, as with the Eldar book, it's a little bit on the tame side.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I 'spose it could be worse, like the Snowflake Blade.

ADB was a mistake.

 blood reaper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I 'spose it could be worse, like the Snowflake Blade.

ADB was a mistake.

Agreed. I hear his next works centres around a character known as "Marius Suzerian", and he's apparently capable of easily curb-stomping every single one of Matt Ward's lesser creations simultaneously.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Personally I think anything with at least 2 wounds makes it generally worthwhile, going from toughness 4-5 on a multi wound unit is a huge buff vs small arms fire.

Pete, is that you?

I'm sorry I think you may have me confused with someone else.

You'll have to forgive Alpha. He's making a wonderful reference to the old days of the Chaos 3.5 Codex, where 1KSons guys got W2 but were still the worst sub-army in the entire 'Dex. Pete Haines, the writer of the Codex and a man who totally didn't make his own Iron Warriors the most powerful sub-army in the book, is quoted as saying "Ultimately and army with 2 wounds each has a lot going for it". It's something of an infamous saying for those of us who were around at the time.

I heard that behind the mini marine statue under the stairs at Warhammer World there's a hidden entrance to a secret chamber where, through the willing sacrifice of the blood of Andy Chambers, Gary Morely and Fat Bloke, you can summon Pete Haines from the Void to write you a new Chaos Codex where all the cult marines have 2 wounds each.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Personally I think anything with at least 2 wounds makes it generally worthwhile, going from toughness 4-5 on a multi wound unit is a huge buff vs small arms fire.

Pete, is that you?

I'm sorry I think you may have me confused with someone else.

You'll have to forgive Alpha. He's making a wonderful reference to the old days of the Chaos 3.5 Codex, where 1KSons guys got W2 but were still the worst sub-army in the entire 'Dex. Pete Haines, the writer of the Codex and a man who totally didn't make his own Iron Warriors the most powerful sub-army in the book, is quoted as saying "Ultimately and army with 2 wounds each has a lot going for it". It's something of an infamous saying for those of us who were around at the time.

I heard that behind the mini marine statue under the stairs at Warhammer World there's a hidden entrance to a secret chamber where, through the willing sacrifice of the blood of Andy Chambers, Gary Morely and Fat Bloke, you can summon Pete Haines from the Void to write you a new Chaos Codex where all the cult marines have 2 wounds each.

Careful now, i've been hurt before.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/15/space-marines-why-you-need-faith-furygw-homepage-post-3/

More space marine buffs, because poor space marines really need even more new stuff...

Just showing how much of a joke PA:1 was.

Oof, can't spare the love for the loyalists. As a fellow xenos player, I feel for you eldar. GW's favouritism towards marines knows no bounds.

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
rtememebr angron broke the weapons, and then was all like "meh whatever don't care" then Kharn took em and repaired em. making use of one

Oh I know, but it just seems so random that Joe Blow Chaos Dude can end up walking around with frickin' Gorefather of all things.

I 'spose it could be worse, like the Snowflake Blade.

ahh but it';s NOT in the hands of Joe Blow chaos dude. it's in the hands of YOUR Chaos Dude. the greatest chaos dude to ever be a chaos dude in the history of dudes!

To be fair, Gorefather was already in the Traitor Legions book, so it's nothing new. I wouldn't be surprised if name- and fluffwize all the relics in PA2 will be the ones' from Traitor Legions.

wow so chaos got one crappy blog post this week....

GW need to realize space marines have gone a bit to far.

In all reality though, it's just fluff. You only have so much CP to spend so won't see too much of this. Great for narrative though.

 bullyboy wrote:
In all reality though, it's just fluff. You only have so much CP to spend so won't see too much of this. Great for narrative though.

yeah but theyre still buffs nonetheless.

now any techmarine can be better at healing than belisarius cawl himself.

stormcraft wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/15/space-marines-why-you-need-faith-furygw-homepage-post-3/

More space marine buffs, because poor space marines really need even more new stuff...

Good grief. The truly infuriating thing is this is all in the same book as the csm rules. So it was written at the same fething time.

It was also written alongside pa1.

So what was gw thinking?

They knew what they had already given sm. They knew what they were giving them in this book.

And yet they couldn't try to do better for the eldar in pa1?

They couldn't do better by csm IN THE SAME FETHING BOOK?