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 DominayTrix wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.

except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.

I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.

 bullyboy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.

I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.

could be as simple as "we're gonna take your christmas money"

 bullyboy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.

I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.

Nope.

Traditionally they don't release anything at all beyond the battleforces, maybe terrain and paint sets. Things generally don't pick back up again until mid-January.
The chaos book and starter and etc is pretty big in its own right for the time of year, especially if the monsters quickly follow (formorian cyclops, ogre champion and sphinx)

Honestly the PA books and single models seem to be a delaying tactic while they get new production lines running. We know thats going on (or just finished) and it will take time to get production really flowing (especially given the all kits 'temporarily out of stock').
All of PA feels and tastes like filler, and all the books from the supplements, PA and CA have been a mess that feels like a rush job, though part of that comes from the 'we didn't realize that people would use the rules we wrote and not the versions that exist solely in our heads' blame shifting in the supplement FAQs.

BrianDavion wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.

except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something

There shouldn't BE nine codices to begin with.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.

except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something

There shouldn't BE nine codices to begin with.

gotta deal with the facts as they are, not as you wish they would be

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.

except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something

There shouldn't BE nine codices to begin with.

gotta deal with the facts as they are, not as you wish they would be

Yeah, people do and the next person I see derailing a N&R thread complaining about this is getting a vacation as I am sick to death of it.

Voss wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.

I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.

Nope.

Traditionally they don't release anything at all beyond the battleforces, maybe terrain and paint sets. Things generally don't pick back up again until mid-January.
The chaos book and starter and etc is pretty big in its own right for the time of year, especially if the monsters quickly follow (formorian cyclops, ogre champion and sphinx)

Honestly the PA books and single models seem to be a delaying tactic while they get new production lines running. We know thats going on (or just finished) and it will take time to get production really flowing (especially given the all kits 'temporarily out of stock').
All of PA feels and tastes like filler, and all the books from the supplements, PA and CA have been a mess that feels like a rush job, though part of that comes from the 'we didn't realize that people would use the rules we wrote and not the versions that exist solely in our heads' blame shifting in the supplement FAQs.

Pretty sure Gloomspite Gitz were revealed last Xmas (yep...just checked https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/26/26th-dec-gloomspite-gitz-revealedgw-homepage-post-1/), not sure about 2017, was that when we got first glimpses of Shadowspear? So it is normal for GW to hit one decent size reveal Xmas day, so maybe we are getting a little more with the PA3 release. I am also skeptical, but one can dream....

 bullyboy wrote:

Voss wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?

Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?

Edit - Thank you Darsath

No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.

I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.

Nope.

Traditionally they don't release anything at all beyond the battleforces, maybe terrain and paint sets. Things generally don't pick back up again until mid-January.
The chaos book and starter and etc is pretty big in its own right for the time of year, especially if the monsters quickly follow (formorian cyclops, ogre champion and sphinx)

Honestly the PA books and single models seem to be a delaying tactic while they get new production lines running. We know thats going on (or just finished) and it will take time to get production really flowing (especially given the all kits 'temporarily out of stock').
All of PA feels and tastes like filler, and all the books from the supplements, PA and CA have been a mess that feels like a rush job, though part of that comes from the 'we didn't realize that people would use the rules we wrote and not the versions that exist solely in our heads' blame shifting in the supplement FAQs.

Pretty sure Gloomspite Gitz were revealed last Xmas (yep...just checked https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/26/26th-dec-gloomspite-gitz-revealedgw-homepage-post-1/), not sure about 2017, was that when we got first glimpses of Shadowspear? So it is normal for GW to hit one decent size reveal Xmas day, so maybe we are getting a little more with the PA3 release. I am also skeptical, but one can dream....

Oh, yeah. They do Xmas day reveals (though that one was the day after).

But you said 'release something bigger this time of year,' I figured you meant December releases.

And as far as PA goes, the Open Day post pretty much put the idea of a big (or even PA1 eldar sized) release to bed:

WarCom wrote:Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment.

Anything more than a single character model per book is pretty much ruled out entirely.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/30/reveals-from-the-warhammer-40000-open-daygw-homepage-post-1/

truthfully this december's seen a few decent releases, PA3 for 40k, and Slaves to darkness for AOS

This is an unusually good December for GW. Lots of actual new stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This is an unusually good December for GW. Lots of actual new stuff.

agreed. normally december is, outside of the big value packs a pretty barren month.

I dunno, when the community site mentioned "an epic champion" for each book I didn't necessarily read that as "only one model release per book" so much as "there will be a character model, maybe something else"

I definitely see the reasons for reading as only one model, though, but I hope that there'll be more than that. I figure the Dark Angels players would appreciate their new shiny slightly-trusted Primaris Deathwing/Ravenwing. Probably won't happen, though, unfortunately. Turns out that models don't release at the speed of hype.

Grey Knights are supposed to be getting a big update, right? I'm hoping that it isn't "now you can take Primaris units as Grey Knights."

Benionin wrote:
I dunno, when the community site mentioned "an epic champion" for each book I didn't necessarily read that as "only one model release per book" so much as "there will be a character model, maybe something else"

I definitely see the reasons for reading as only one model, though, but I hope that there'll be more than that. I figure the Dark Angels players would appreciate their new shiny slightly-trusted Primaris Deathwing/Ravenwing. Probably won't happen, though, unfortunately. Turns out that models don't release at the speed of hype.

Grey Knights are supposed to be getting a big update, right? I'm hoping that it isn't "now you can take Primaris units as Grey Knights."

I also read the statement about the character release as less restrictive than "there will be only one model per book". I don't think it should be taken quite that literally.

That said, in the next release I expect a new DA character, possibly a new GK character and that's it. I don't think TS will get anything (nor do I have any idea what they could expect given how fleshed out their line is already).

On the GK buff - from what I understand the buff is rules only. It would make sense for GW to add the Primaris models to the GK line - it would provide the double benefit of tapping into that market and buffing GK competitively. I can't see this either though, because GW have snowflaked themselves into a corner with the lore and design of GK units where the addition of Primaris (outside of some very creative lore changes/excuse mongering) would make no sense.

Despite all of the above I checked the Christmas day Gloomspite Gits reveal and they released on 5th January so maybe there is more to this PA. I hope not. But you never know.

A massive GK release, model wise would be a suprise to be sure, and a slightly unwelcome one because then I'd wanna buy more minis for my GK and I'm trying to save for sisters

 bullyboy wrote:

No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.

It's important to note that the whole ""Crossing the Rubicon Primaris" is referring to what the Codex Space Marines listed as "The Ascended". It's existing(potentially 'off screen') characters undergoing the Primaris procedures.

This might come across as a nitpicking thing, but from my current understanding--"The Awakened"(the Primaris who were part of Cawl's stasis bunch) aren't being accepted into the Inner Circle, Deathwing, or Ravenwing while "The Indoctrinated"(fresh, handpicked recruits given the Primaris procedures) were being considered for the whole 'mysteries of the Dark Angels!1!!' bit.

I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.

December is usually a dead month, release wise. When Maggotkin were coming out, they did a similar Christmas reveal bit.

 Kanluwen wrote:
This might come across as a nitpicking thing, but from my current understanding--"The Awakened"(the Primaris who were part of Cawl's stasis bunch) aren't being accepted into the Inner Circle, Deathwing, or Ravenwing while "The Indoctrinated"(fresh, handpicked recruits given the Primaris procedures) were being considered for the whole 'mysteries of the Dark Angels!1!!' bit.

I think that's probably the best way to incorporate primaris with the Dark Angels and kudos to GW for coming up with it.

Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.

Honestly I’d rather go with a obvious pairing thus ensuring helpful updates instead of marine buffs vs xeno punching bag.

So there is Deathwing Primaris, at least in the fluff. Now, Dark Angels and Grey Knights are the "terminator armies". While this is total speculation I could definitely see GW making some kind of Primaris terminator unit that could be used for both GK and DA so they could have a wider customer base.

Also, with all the Primaris upgrade sprues, how hard would it be to put 5 GK style heads, a Force Sword, and psycannon on one?

 cuda1179 wrote:
So there is Deathwing Primaris, at least in the fluff. Now, Dark Angels and Grey Knights are the "terminator armies". While this is total speculation I could definitely see GW making some kind of Primaris terminator unit that could be used for both GK and DA so they could have a wider customer base.

Also, with all the Primaris upgrade sprues, how hard would it be to put 5 GK style heads, a Force Sword, and psycannon on one?

You mean, something like this - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marines-Primaris-Aggressors?

Unless they’re just making truescale Indomitus armor models, Primaris terminators can feth right off.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
So there is Deathwing Primaris, at least in the fluff. Now, Dark Angels and Grey Knights are the "terminator armies". While this is total speculation I could definitely see GW making some kind of Primaris terminator unit that could be used for both GK and DA so they could have a wider customer base.

Also, with all the Primaris upgrade sprues, how hard would it be to put 5 GK style heads, a Force Sword, and psycannon on one?

You mean, something like this - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marines-Primaris-Aggressors?

there's a lot of debate as to weather or not agressors are supposed to be terminator equivilant. they don't fill the "for elite veterns only" niche, which for primaris IS a notable gap that presumably will be filled eventually, right now we've got the vetern intercessors strat but I expect eventually we'll see a dedicated vetern unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zend wrote:
Unless they’re just making truescale Indomitus armor models, Primaris terminators can feth right off.

even among old marines there's a fair bit of varity among terminator armor, 3 differant marks. I imagine Primaris will be a blending of the three.

They also need the unit to teleport. It could be based on Gravis armour, but would need additional elements to allow this to happen.

So we don't think there may be a surprise box that releases first part of January (while sisters starts to arrive end of Jan)? Not sure if "new" marines would go over well right now, but there is an air of mystery to this (perfectly fitting for DA). The consistent rumour was Orks vs Wolves, which we now know is wrong (yet the source had got so much right prior), so what have GW been hiding to suddenly put this release out at the beginning of the year, and giving a Xmas day teaser to start it off?

Both aggressors and terminators fulfill some of the same role as breachers, but I don’t see them as the same. I would like to see a Gravis armor squad kit that would have the option to upgrade one to a captain so we’ve got a alternate to the one in the core set.

I'd be VERY VERY suprised if we saw some sort of new primaris unit in the first months of 2020. we know sisters are january, and they're going to be pretty big, by my count we have around a dozen kits, maybe or or two more, maybe or or two less,

so thats proably a 2-3 week release window there.

Picked up Faith and Fury last night, took about 45 minutes to read cover to cover and...

Big surprise! It's mostly Marine garbage.

Are they ever going to release anything over value for non-marine armies? Or is it just going to continue to be a marine-spank fest?

How many codexes have Marine based armies gotten this year? Hmmm?

How many Xenos Codexes?

Furthermore, how many of the Xenos rules releases have even been worth their weight in salt? Meanwhile Marines once again get to be the most absolutely broken factions, able to do things that others can't for literally no reason at all.

Isn't it cool how CSM Tanks now also get to have Chapt-oh, well. Nevermind on that.

Isn't it so cool and healthy for the game?!

It kinda feels like you got what you deserved?

Or maybe what you needed?

Yeah, that’s it - you got what you needed!

 Alpharius wrote:
It kinda feels like you got what you deserved?

Or maybe what you needed?

Yeah, that’s it - you got what you needed!

PA 3 is more marine stuff too.

I feel bad for the Necron and Ork players.

It would have been much better to release the DA, BA and Wolves supplements as that rather than pretend they are campaigns....

Is there anything new or intersting in the (tiny) lore element?

 Mr Morden wrote:
It would have been much better to release the DA, BA and Wolves supplements as that rather than pretend they are campaigns....

Is there anything new or intersting in the (tiny) lore element?

In Faith and Fury?

Someone posted yesterday in another thread that the collective Ork Psychic energy levels is reaching Beast standards (human psykers driven mad/head explode when they hear da call of WAAAGH!).

This interested me a little. Apart from that I have no idea.

I think it's a cert that there will be future releases of Gravis stuff with more/different options. Jes Goodwin, the ultimate Marine-o-phile, has stated this is going to happen in a voxcast (which is where I turned off). I also think it's a dead cert that the design team see Gravis as the Primaris terminators, regardless of their 'veteran' status (or any other dumb lore stuff) - they literally have the exact same role.

It would be a financial mistake long term to release these models straight after Xmas in my opinion, the general public perception I have seen online, in various stores and hobby clubs, is that people (even Marine players) are sick of the constant marine releases now and want a break.

That said, GW gonna GW and it'd be no surprise to me I'd they continued to stick one finger up at most of their community while pandering to the spoilt few.