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deTox91 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.

Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?

Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.

A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

Because at least this way other factions get something.

Im still waiting for that impactful, forever changing the fluff, kinda stuff they've promised us... :p

 Malika2 wrote:
Im still waiting for that impactful, forever changing the fluff, kinda stuff they've promised us... :p

Dark Angels got a Primaris character.....thats about it I believe - if its not related to Marines its not likely to matter.

I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet

Probably scared at the massive tears, screaming and backlash that "only" giving certain marine chapters a "mere" supplement (that no other actual proper Faction has even a single one of) would have caused. There is already moaning baout what "little" they are getting in any case.

Its a shame as the word campaign is badly used.

Any info on any PA rumors for Imperial Guard?

deTox91 wrote:
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.

*edit* Btw, does anyone know how well these are selling? My FLGS seems to think they are a dud, but a sample size of one is hardly conclusive. Out of my local friend group, none of them have bought a PA, and most haven't even bothered to get the rules online. Is that everyone else's experience?

 Grimgold wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.

Well Viglis was a big some total of "nothing changed, move along now" as well to be fair. It reminded me of the Warmachien/Hordes campaign books where lots of major characters fight and never quite manage to kill each other

Voss wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.

What do you mean? Do Admech and Marines not get their army traits, relics and rules if you take them as allies?

Or are you referring to the fact that there are a couple generic Drukhari relics you can choose to take on different drukhari HQs?

I'm saying that you should probably read the Dark Eldar codex if you think its 'identical.' If you bring an archon, haemonculus and succubus, they each get a warlord trait and relic. The kabal, coven and kult each get their obsesssions and general army traits and having the others turns nothing off.

Yep, there is one stratagem that interacts between the three drukhari factions, granting a warlord trait to a succubus and a haemonculus for 1cp. Not a relic though we just have the regular relic strat every faction gets. There is also i believe one aura that works off the DRUKHARI keyword.

So does that mean Saint Celestine is also a part of the Imperial Guard codex? She's got an aura that affects guardsmen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

deTox91 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.

Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?

Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.

A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

Because at least this way other factions get something.

Nah, we got time for SW to beat orks, Death watch to beat Necrons, Custody to beat Harlequins, then, I dunno. Time for a new marine faction!

I find the not-progression of storyline in 40k to be rather interesting, because that is not at all the case for AoS. Their plot lines have not only been a big deal but have had a good mix of the poster-boys (Stormcast instead of Marines) losing.

The funny part is that 8th edition, in and of itself, was a huge bit of progression...and the various battleboxes have made it quite clear that there is stuff happening that is a Big Deal.

Cripes people, Forgebane detailed the fact that Cawl is currently engaged in a war with the Necrons over Blackstone deposits across the Imperium.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.

Well Viglis was a big some total of "nothing changed, move along now" as well to be fair. It reminded me of the Warmachien/Hordes campaign books where lots of major characters fight and never quite manage to kill each other

Yes, because Cadia being destroyed definitely qualifies as "nothing changed".

Ignore

 Sentineil wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?

You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.

Well Viglis was a big some total of "nothing changed, move along now" as well to be fair. It reminded me of the Warmachien/Hordes campaign books where lots of major characters fight and never quite manage to kill each other

Yes, because Cadia being destroyed definitely qualifies as "nothing changed".

Did you respond to the wrong post?

No? I was responding to the claim that Vigilus didn't change anything in the fluff... I think...

Wait, whoops got my campaigns mixed up... Mistakes were made... Move along nothing to see here

PA books are selling for the factions within, but not as campaign books. I'm pretty sure BA players bought Baal, Craftworld players bought Phoenix Rising etc.
I just wish their were more missions, the narrative is really weak.

I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?

That's answered on page 114..









just kidding, no one knows at this point but no information as of yet.

 puma713 wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?

all armies can expect to see some sort of support yes.

 puma713 wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

 Ghaz wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

still waiting for that "some models that you will not believe", unless of course they are referring to plastic Aspect Warriors.

 Ghaz wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

Thanks, though I was referring to anything that has been rumored yet, as in the enemy vs. Tau in the Greater Good, etc.

Iracundus wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:
Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...

And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?

Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!

Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".

You mean Sylandri Veilwalker?

The problem is we're not sure whether that's really the name of an individual or the name of a character role, like the Dread Pirate Roberts, since as far as we know Harlequins give up their identities and literally become the characters they play.

Same can be said of Cypher, and is literally true of the Phoenix Lords, but they're still great characters!

Malika2 wrote:Im still waiting for that impactful, forever changing the fluff, kinda stuff they've promised us... :p

Grimgold wrote:You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.

Didn’t GW report in a twitch stream that all of the Psychic Awakening takes place during the Indomitus Crusade? If they were telling the truth then this is charter 2 with the 13th Black Crusade/ end of 7th edition being the first and the Dark Imperium/ beginning of 8th edition the third. So it looks like this series is more like the Horus Heresy, we know the ending we’re just getting the middles filled in.

You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...

*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*

In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!

40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!

It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.

The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.

For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:

Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.

The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!

The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!

Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.

How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:

Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?

Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?

Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?

That was the point!!!!

If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.

This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".

The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"

-ing SPARE ME.

I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...

Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???

I don't mind some story developments but I will agree that regarding a moving story the phrase "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. I've played games with a rapidly developing story and it can be exhausting to keep up with (suddenly new sourcebooks even ones you'd otherwise not care about are ESSENTIAL. Imagine if for example every new codex, supplement and game expansion was a massive change to the setting that you needed to buy to keep up with the game?) expensive and runs the risk of wrecking what you loved about it.

nataliereed1984 wrote:
You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...

The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our currents span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"

-ing SPARE ME.

..we have to stop running into one another. despite where i disagree, you also nail it, especially in the spots like the one above.

the more they tell directly, the more the payoff isn't worth it. being so close to ruin oughta be where it stays in my opinion. more to the point, theres no way these supplements WILL drastically change much by my count... we already had that recently. the fires still arent out from the last one. enoguh gone on to sour me as it is.

i just wanna see what the rules from all this'll be, especially the xeno and the guard.

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't mind some story developments but I will agree that regarding a moving story the phrase "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. I've played games with a rapidly developing story and it can be exhausting to keep up with (suddenly new sourcebooks even ones you'd otherwise not care about are ESSENTIAL. Imagine if for example every new codex, supplement and game expansion was a massive change to the setting that you needed to buy to keep up with the game?) expensive and runs the risk of wrecking what you loved about it.

Totally.

The more the story advances, the chances of something happening that severely, or even irreparably compromises something you used to love, gets exponentially higher.

Like remember the transition of Oldcrons to Newcrons? Imagine there being a chance of something like that happening EVERY YEAR.

Especially when you take into consideration the natural staff turnover at GW.

Worst case scenario, you get End Times 2: Ecclesiarchal Boogaloo, followed by Age of Guilliman.

Besides... to borrow someone else's example... 40k isn't "about" Guilliman, Cawl, Celestine, Yarrick, Greyfax, Yvraine, Vect, Rakarth, Hesperax, Eldrad, Thraka, Silent King, Trayzyn, Shadowsun, Farsight, Cypher, Abaddon, Mortarion, Magnus, Fabius Bile, etc etc etc anymore than Forgotten Realms is "about" Elminster.

It's about YOU, pal! And, should you choose, whichever of those weird jerks you wanna play!

nataliereed1984 wrote:
You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...

Rant aside, I think it's less about forward momentum and more about impact. The end of 7th/start of 8th saw the first change to the status quo in a long time, and I don't think GW is in a hurry to do that again. Instead they're using these campaign books to fill in the gaps, and flesh out areas of the new status quo.

The problem is, none of these new battlefields have any real impact on anything. They all end in basically a stalemate, and nothing really happens. The end result is that a bunch of dudes fought a bunch of other dudes and... here have half a book of new Marine rules.

The campaigns have to feel meaningful for them to be anything other than window dressing for a [Whatever Flavour] Marine Codex update.

I don't think we're gonna get significant plot advancement until they decide they've sold enough primaris marines and it's time for everyone to replace their collections with even bigger marines. I don't see that happening for a while.

In my opinion the best thing GW could do is focus on campaigns for smaller slices of space. Imagine if GW focuses closely on a sector or so at a time, they start by putting out a sourcebook or website that details the sector, major worlds how they interact etc. and really fleshes it out. they then do campaign books that focus on the fighting for said sector. do it right and they can make the stakes feel real, while also not having it be a "this single planet is important to the fate of the entire galaxy" which inevitably means "a buncha people die and the status quo doesn't change" is all they CAN do. but if they focus on smaller conflicts they can oddly make the stakes feel more real and more important by, oddly, being less important.

I mean, using the plague wars event as an example, it wasn't a bad idea but it was connected to a larger battle that we all knew the Imperium was going to win, GW's not going to destroy the Ultramarines. BUT, introduce the "Toberham sector" that happens to contain the homeworld of the Sons of Fury Chapter, they can possiably up the stakes. BUT they have to do this properly by developing the area, and well.. letting us know who the Sons of Fury are, and why we should give a damn about them.
now imagine if they drag this event out over a few years of products, we're given this new space marine chapter, a chaos warband operating in the area new craftworld that is in this sector. etc. and all these factions are fleshed out in black library novels etc and given some real character... suddenly we feel there could be some stakes, especially when the summer campaign has the new CSM warband vs the new marine chapter and we're told the faction that loses will be destroyed in canon.

Sure some petty minor sucessor chapter isn't going to be big stakes for the universe, it'd be the type of thing that might pass uncommented in a single sentence in a codex, but.. build it up right and it'll be emotionally important. which when people say they want important events is what they REALLY mean

Or they could start killing off established characters that don't have a model or maybe only have one in finecast. Like I was pretty sure Kor Phaeron was gonna cack it in PA2. Doesn't Guilliman have a sword that can permakill daemons? Oh no Lorgar has finally emerged from his solitude to lay waste to Ultramar! But where's his plastic model reveal? Oh...

BrianDavion wrote:
especially when the summer campaign has the new CSM warband vs the new marine chapter and we're told the faction that loses will be destroyed in canon.

And you have found a good way to ensure nobody cares about those especially to point of building army for them