Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

BrianDavion wrote:


proably because GW's started to realize adopting a hard core "no model no rules" mentality even in cases where the model set is the same thing is stupid and pisses players off and that these are recent developments? makes a lot more sense then GW deliberatly screwing any faction that's not wearing power armor yeah...

but hey let's keep up the childish "xenos persecution complex"

..considering the random removals of stuff in the sisters weapons kit and the bizarre canoness- still with no jump pack mind, if they are relaxing on the "no model no rules" mentality, that had to be really recent indeed. id quite like that to be the case, but i just don't buy it.

They said not to post the pictures...

 Imateria wrote:

By the same token there's nothing stopping GW from reversing that silly decision and letting units like Trueborn be used and get points adjustments or other updates as needed, they've certainly had plenty of opportunity to do so, not least the first PA book or this CA. But no, they're all being sent to "Legends" whilst Marines are getting new units based on the same principles that are seing similar units being stamped out of other books.

You are of course entitled to keep your head firmly buried in the sand and pretend that this is all fine and that none Marine players are just making things up for the sake of it.

Truthfully, I never saw trueborn (and the wych equivalent) as anything other than a stop-gap entry in a codex that had too few units, a design policy they jettisoned once the mini-armies (Ad Mech, GSC, Custodes, etc) started coming out.
They came out of nowhere and vanished just as quickly.

 Yarium wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

E - I've seen no competitive list with 200+ Grots ever. I don't think it exists. That is not a legitimate reason if this nerf is true.

Grots in the current competitive environment are being used to fill cheap detachments. For reasons I can only scratch my head at, GW only seems to want Guard to be able to do that. It's not that Grots are worth 4ppm, it's that the CP from Battalions are worth a minimum points cost. It's the exact same reason that Cultists, despite also being worse than Guardsmen in every way, were brought up to 5ppm. Now they're going back down to 4ppm, again for unknown reasons.

My guess is that GW is moving forward now saying "if a model is around the strength of a Cultist, it should be 4ppm, because players are taking them to fill required slots". I wouldn't be surprised if we see Neophyte Hybrids going down to 4ppm. In fact, it would make me VERY happy if they did!

And there's no way any game designer with even hald a working brain synapse would think grot, guardsmen and hybrid are all worth same.

Too bad gw doesn'" have even amateur game designer let alone professional.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shaelinith wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

E - I've seen no competitive list with 200+ Grots ever. I don't think it exists. That is not a legitimate reason if this nerf is true.

I'm absolutly not for a nerf for grots but team USA played a list with 180+ grots at ETC 2019. I think it was played before in other non ETC
Team events. I'm not sure it was played a all in solo events.

Umm etc isn't good indicator though as due to system armies have individual purposes with some lists there made deliberately lose but lose little.

waiting to see the wraith units and DA units personally. Shouldn't be too long now I suppose.

Voss wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

By the same token there's nothing stopping GW from reversing that silly decision and letting units like Trueborn be used and get points adjustments or other updates as needed, they've certainly had plenty of opportunity to do so, not least the first PA book or this CA. But no, they're all being sent to "Legends" whilst Marines are getting new units based on the same principles that are seing similar units being stamped out of other books.

You are of course entitled to keep your head firmly buried in the sand and pretend that this is all fine and that none Marine players are just making things up for the sake of it.

Truthfully, I never saw trueborn (and the wych equivalent) as anything other than a stop-gap entry in a codex that had too few units, a design policy they jettisoned once the mini-armies (Ad Mech, GSC, Custodes, etc) started coming out.
They came out of nowhere and vanished just as quickly.

The trueborns and bloodbrides both have actual lore surroundign them, and them getting access to special weapons is fits it. Still, our codex saw so many units be thrown away (Most importantly all our HQs with mobiity options) that it feels like its missing many units. The fact that the army is effectively split in 3 doesnt help stop that feeling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:
waiting to see the wraith units and DA units personally. Shouldn't be too long now I suppose.

Wraithblades Axe Shield -10
Wraithknight -45
Wraithlords -5
Hemlock -20
Spiritseers -10


don't know if its legit, but it would be pretty nice, particularly the blades and spiritseer

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

By the same token there's nothing stopping GW from reversing that silly decision and letting units like Trueborn be used and get points adjustments or other updates as needed, they've certainly had plenty of opportunity to do so, not least the first PA book or this CA. But no, they're all being sent to "Legends" whilst Marines are getting new units based on the same principles that are seing similar units being stamped out of other books.

You are of course entitled to keep your head firmly buried in the sand and pretend that this is all fine and that none Marine players are just making things up for the sake of it.

Truthfully, I never saw trueborn (and the wych equivalent) as anything other than a stop-gap entry in a codex that had too few units, a design policy they jettisoned once the mini-armies (Ad Mech, GSC, Custodes, etc) started coming out.
They came out of nowhere and vanished just as quickly.

The trueborns and bloodbrides both have actual lore surroundign them, and them getting access to special weapons is fits it. Still, our codex saw so many units be thrown away (Most importantly all our HQs with mobiity options) that it feels like its missing many units. The fact that the army is effectively split in 3 doesnt help stop that feeling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:
waiting to see the wraith units and DA units personally. Shouldn't be too long now I suppose.

Wraithblades Axe Shield -10
Wraithknight -45
Wraithlords -5
Hemlock -20
Spiritseers -10


don't know if its legit, but it would be pretty nice, particularly the blades and spiritseer

I have heard this, but haven't seen the image to confirm. If true, however, my wraith list I've been pondering recently just dropped 150pts

Banshees stoll have to buy a power sword, so they'd be a solid 30-40% more than an ork boy.

Bdrone wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


proably because GW's started to realize adopting a hard core "no model no rules" mentality even in cases where the model set is the same thing is stupid and pisses players off and that these are recent developments? makes a lot more sense then GW deliberatly screwing any faction that's not wearing power armor yeah...

but hey let's keep up the childish "xenos persecution complex"

..considering the random removals of stuff in the sisters weapons kit and the bizarre canoness- still with no jump pack mind, if they are relaxing on the "no model no rules" mentality, that had to be really recent indeed. id quite like that to be the case, but i just don't buy it.

yeah GW's been inconsistant about this that's true which is annoying as before the 8th cycle finished people where basicly locked in a "will they or won't they" cycle insofar as their modelless options went

Has anything leaked on Ad Mech/Imperial Knights?

BrianDavion wrote:

Tetsu0 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm really surprissed Death Company intercessors are a unit and not an stratagem update.

Other case of the absolutely random and inconsistent No-Models But-Sometimes-Rules policy.

Well they don't really seem to be anything but an Intercessor box with the Blood Angel upgrade sprue and painted black instead of red.

And yet Kabalite Trueborn are just Kabalites with extra special weapons, but have been removed. Only Marines seem to get the exceptions (somethign that has been pointed out several times by a lot of people over the last couple of years).

Thank you for posting that imateria. I was about to lose it, I wanted to throttle these people saying how it's so easy to convert the intercessor death company unit.

Like how many units have we lost that were so easy to kitbash. And why is it that space marines and guard get this exception.

proably because GW's started to realize adopting a hard core "no model no rules" mentality even in cases where the model set is the same thing is stupid and pisses players off and that these are recent developments? makes a lot more sense then GW deliberatly screwing any faction that's not wearing power armor yeah...

but hey let's keep up the childish "xenos persecution complex"

If they are stabbing you in the back its probaly not a complex.

But hey the "My chosen faction is fine, who cares about anyone else" is not healthy either.

Oh and before you play that card (yet again) STILL A MARINE PLAYER

I can't say for sure, but I have a feeling that orks might loose more stuff from Legends than all other codex together.

BlackKnight wrote:
Has anything leaked on Ad Mech/Imperial Knights?

Not that I've seen, but for what it's worth the only point change on Chaos Knights was the Armiger (-15).

 xttz wrote:

BlackKnight wrote:
Has anything leaked on Ad Mech/Imperial Knights?

Not that I've seen, but for what it's worth the only point change on Chaos Knights was the Armiger (-15).

The despoiler also went down 45 points.

 Emicrania wrote:
I can't say for sure, but I have a feeling that orks might loose more stuff from Legends than all other codex together.

Tbh, that is only because dark eldar Are now a skeleton dex

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I can't say for sure, but I have a feeling that orks might loose more stuff from Legends than all other codex together.

Tbh, that is only because dark eldar Are now a skeleton dex

I do remember I calculated how many options we lost and it was a pretty scary number. I was really hoping for some Pts drops for orks in this CA as I sent a lot of suggestions to the 40k dev team from my experiences. However, my experience is never tournament level so maybe people were squeezing the blood that I couldn't squeeze. I recently (within the last 2 years) entered a tournament with a pretty standard Evil Sunz ork army and lost turn 2 with a 90% wipe of my army against some stuff that had an unequal chance of hitting and wounding (removed the whole fun of the game in my mind...).

However, I do not seriously believe the 4pts grot rumour as it would be insane. However, I remember last time everyone said cultists and some other units were going up and when people clearly explained why that was bad the major argument was everything was going up. Then everything went down and the poor Chaos players lost out. So, crazy stuff could happen... that's what you get for paying for a nerf to your army.

Hey look. Spearheard is back. Again. Again.

I have to say that all the narrative stuff they're previewing sounds pretty cool.

So to summarize, we have not seen any fw, orkz,necrons, not much tau .

Any change to noise marines or sonic weapons ?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey look. Spearheard is back. Again. Again.

I have to say that all the narrative stuff they're previewing sounds pretty cool.

Spearhead could be fun.

If they fix the points on my fellblade.

C'mon just rip the bandaid off already! Let's see some fw points.

Not Online!!! wrote:
So to summarize, we have not seen any fw, orkz,necrons, not much tau .

We saw FW GK/Inq/Sisters/Custodes

Not Online!!! wrote:
So to summarize, we have not seen any fw, orkz,necrons, not much tau .

And can’t read almost any of the Death Guard stuff :(

broxus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
So to summarize, we have not seen any fw, orkz,necrons, not much tau .

And can’t read almost any of the Death Guard stuff :(

This was posted in the DG Tactica thread - can't comment on the validity until CA drops obviously.

Cultist down 1pt
Land raider down 20pt
Terminator Lord down 10pt
Predator down 5pt
Rhino up 15pt
Spawn down 5pt
Helbrute down 20pt
MPC down 15pt
MBH down 15pt
Possessed down 3pt
Pox down 2pt
Sorcerer down 10pt
Terminator sorcerer down 2pts
Typhus down 20pt
Plaguebearers up 1pt
Combi melta down 4pt
Entropy cannon down 5pt
Plague spewer down 2pt

Ive actualy as sily as it sounds been avoiding leaks.

Get my moneys worth and be surprised at how shocking the pointing are.

Poxwalkers down 2 points and Typhus down 20? Oh lordy I would want to build a list spamming them.

Pox are only down to 5. Still good.

Bdrone wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


proably because GW's started to realize adopting a hard core "no model no rules" mentality even in cases where the model set is the same thing is stupid and pisses players off and that these are recent developments? makes a lot more sense then GW deliberatly screwing any faction that's not wearing power armor yeah...

but hey let's keep up the childish "xenos persecution complex"

..considering the random removals of stuff in the sisters weapons kit and the bizarre canoness- still with no jump pack mind, if they are relaxing on the "no model no rules" mentality, that had to be really recent indeed. id quite like that to be the case, but i just don't buy it.

"No model, no rules" is fake. The skaven clanrat box was for slaves and clanrats, warriors and trueborn were same box (trueborn have also existed since 5th and only 8th ed codex didn't include them), for guard (the guardsmen, vets and conscripts) were all the same box. Also for various models in the rules they later made some models otherwise hellpit abomination (which took ages for GW to finally make btw) wouldn't have been a thing back in old fantasy and a good bunch of other things wouldn't have been made for guard. Yes they did drop some but space marines have gotten far more models than a lot of other factions.

I'd like to hear the excuse for the fact dark eldar only had the void raven, re-vamped hq's in plastic while also having no bike or mount of any kind (totally unnecessary because most eldar aspect warriors are still metal or finecast and they got a wraithknight and flyers) and the re-vamped wracks with a now completely worthless special weapon (ossefactor). We then get incubi revamped in plastic with no points or rules change which while pretty once again we didn't need and drazhar which was actually decent. That's pretty much all we have gotten since 5th ed. Meanwhile every edition space marines get several new toys (transports, vehicles, infantry of all kinds as well as ripping off units of other armies when they can't have something). I mean at this point the only way for space marines to rip off chaos any more is to make a space marine version of that flying fire turkey chaos has (heldrake?) only making it much better.

Dark eldar actually had our hq's thrown away including vect which is the leader of the dark eldar because you know a successor space marine chapter master, multiple heroes in various chapters and so on are far more needed than the leader of your entire faction overall. I imagine the preferential treatment is due to faction popularity and the fact space marines are the special snowflakes of 40k. I enjoy the less popular and generic factions but GW makes me not want to sometimes.

I apologize but I have no real sympathy for tau, space marines and eldar. So many other armies have been shafted more frequently than them and they have each gotten a lot more love. 8th has been fairly kind to dark eldar for the most part with rules but forgive me if I don't care for issues from the big 3 OP factions.

Sorry for the rant but I had to say something.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
"No model, no rules" is fake.

Keep telling yourself that.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
The skaven clanrat box was for slaves and clanrats, warriors and trueborn were same box

Which came first: Clanrat box or Chapterhouse? Honest question.

Give us Ork leaaakks! Pleeez! My impatience can’t take another week.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
"No model, no rules" is fake.

Keep telling yourself that.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
The skaven clanrat box was for slaves and clanrats, warriors and trueborn were same box

Which came first: Clanrat box or Chapterhouse? Honest question.

So was this all the chapter house thing? I have heard that but I feel like there had to have been a way around some of this. Besides I feel like the 3 popular factions i mentioned have gotten a lot more loving than a lot of others. I'd love to have some sort of super-heavy or characters on bikes. I even think I heard dark eldar used to have that. Now however I just can't help but feel things are lacking.

Even when I played guard they got a lot in 5th edition and then baneblades as well as wyverns and some other units. Granted I stopped playing my imperial guard some time in 5th edition 40k to move on to Fantasy in 7th ed during the tail end of that edition but I feel like guard's made out decently. Most love dark eldar got was in 5th model-wise and then game-wise in 8th maybe. Currently dark eldar might not be great but I just can't feel sorry for eldar, marines (as well as space wolves) and tau. They were too OP for too long.