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Ehm 2 wounds fly models with - 1 to hit t5 and fast movement for 21 would be pretty awesome or?

T1nk4bell wrote:
Ehm 2 wounds fly models with - 1 to hit t5 and fast movement for 21 would be pretty awesome or?

It would have been, but Tomb Blades are 28pts, not 21pts. The poster didn't account for them having two guns, so their pts haven't changed.

No tomb blades are 14 points without weapons atm.
Double gauss = 28
Daubke Tesla =28
Double partikle = 24

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
The Stompa is the worst LoW of all game hands down.
T8 40W 3+ means 23 points a W
And about 9 W vs knight in shooting

the stompa is probably the worst GW model in the game right now, theres no point in repeating it over and over again, nobody is arguing against it.

I fully expect it to get a hefty pts drop, we'll see when the orks pts changes get leaked


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deTox91 wrote:
Hmmm I have a feeling that whoever wrote the decrease amount didn't factor in weapons costs

the actual picture is on the subreddit i linked, i dont play necrons and copypasted from a comment there.

Would you take a Stompa if it was free? Then it's still better than a geminae superia.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Emicrania wrote:
Primaris have to go up. The rest need point adjustment. Either they do it, either we start to play smaller army.

...Primaris are not really the reason space marines are winning games. Since the IH nerf, Intercessors are the best primaris unit and...they're still just intercessors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
If everything gets points drops...nothing does. Personally I’d like to see at least some stuff (anything, really) get points hikes to stop the stealth-creep to 2500 pt games.

Well, Marines play 2000 and everyone else gets 2500 points would be the obvious stop-gap until point changes in Chapter Approved 2020

But I suppose people (or at least TOs) like to go the tedious route.

That said, remember GW's flagship matched play events play 1750 by default, as well as some 1000 points tournament series. Nobody there plays 2000 points since about 2017.

Yeah, because a tournament got won by an Ork player who slow played every game for 5 rounds and never went past turn 3.

People who bring this up always forget the change was due to incompetent TOs, not GW being proactive.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

The straight melee wraithknight is cheaper than the melee knight and the shield/gun wraithknight is cheaper than the gun/chainsword knight.

No. It's not

Gallant is 352 base (with stubber)
CC Despoiler is 372 base (with stubber)
CC Wraithknight is 375 without shoulder-weapons
Rampager is 387 base, but get's exploding 6s on top.


So base Gallant would need to be
- Lose the Fist-army to get a 5++
- Lose 1 Attack
- Be WS 3+
- Lose the stubber
- Be 23 points more expensive

To be perfectly balanced to the Wraithknight.

You're not factoring in the 45 point drop the wraithknight is getting. I agree it could use better rules but gw won't do that in ca. I give up. We've derailed the topic enough.

I'll just go back to waiting to see if my fellblade no longer costs nearly 3 times as much as the wraithknight.

 Galef wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Primaris have to go up. The rest need point adjustment. Either they do it, either we start to play smaller army.

I don't agree the Primaris HAVE to go up. Maybe a 1-2ppm increase for Intercessors would be fine, but it's hardly needed.
But I 100% agree with you that everyone should stop playing 2000pts and jump down to 1750pts or even 1500pts as standard

-

Issue with primaris being this cheap with these bazillion rules is it's pretty darn hard to get rest fit in scale. Necron warriors at 10 pts would still be weak compared to them but 8-9 pts and it's pushing too close to stuff like boyz, ig troopers etc.

Dude eliminators, aggressors and centurions are like 15/20% underpriced. As are the stratagems and the HQ.

fething GW destroying the meta to peddle the numarines...
The models are awesome, why the feth they had to destroy everythung they worked for, is beyond me.

Anyhow, is only ork left for leaks right?

How wonderful

Half of the Nids are also missing.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Maybe 9E should be written by the community instead of GW... perks include never paying for rules update, having complete control over the rules instead of hoping GW takes a step in the right direction, not ever being forced by GW to buy the newest toy to be competitive, and less moaning and groaning about GW not knowing what it’s doing. Start with core rules, find out how to scratch everyone’s itch for how to represent the tactical depth of a conflict, then core rules for armies, then start adding legion tactics, and what not...

A ruleset designed by Dakka is not a game I would be interested in playing.

Contrary to popular belief, those that actually invest themselves in proposed rules etc, and do occaisionally change things up are not worse then GW.

No one was saying it would be worse, just not the type of game they'd want to play(& I'd agree).

I'm just really interested to see how/which models get put into legends.

Still barely any fw.

Pretty sure Tau and non FW Custodes are also missing.

I also haven't seen IG of any stripe or non FW sisters. with Sisters we saw the repressor (is that going in legends or isn't it?! id like to know!) and i guess people will skip over them since their book is just hitting circulation, but this things supposed to have ALL the points in it, so i wanna see em anyway.

On necron tactic thread good point about ghost ark points. For 120 pts you get ghost ark. For 110 pts you get 10 warriors. For the 10 pts difference you get:

Same amount of guns(rapid fire 10 S4 -1 D1 vs 10 rapid fire 1 same stats)
12" speed vs 5"
T6 vs T4
14 wounds vs 10 wounds
4+ save for both
Quantum shield
Fly
Repair automatically one vs RP which isn't even easy to get. Oh and you are immune to morale.

You have degrade but then again warriors degrade firepower per wound taken.

You lose out on h2h ability but really 1 WS3+ S4 attack per model isn't that good. Ability fly gives you better h2h ability by being able to flee.

Really only issue is they aren't troops. But for pure stats it's ghost ark 4ever. The warrior repair thing is just free waste of datasheet space.

Astra Militarum is missing. AdMech is missing. GSC is missing aside from the weapons (Mining Laser actually didn't go down, unlike some reports). Tau is missing. Orks is missing. Imperial Knights is missing. Grey Knights are missing. Little stuff like Sisters of Silence and Assassins, etc.. is missing. Eldar of all forms have been reported, but there're clearly some things missing and I'd love to see the pics.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Burnage wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
At this point i feel like to many units have gotten points drops.
Some of them even outright questonable.

This is definitely starting to feel like just inflating the scale of the game, as opposed to careful balancing. Looking at a 2000 point army from the start of 8th and seeing how much it would be worth now shows a pretty huge difference...

GW need to reinflate points values eventually. The bottom end of the scale in particular already feels very, very crowded with little room for nuance.

I don’t think they care enough. If there wasn’t stubborn demand from tourney folks, GW would just as well drop points and stick with power levels.

AoS was dying in its crib until points were added.
Its not 'tourney folks' demanding points. Its the vast vast majority of players from all across the board.

Racerguy180 wrote:

No one was saying it would be worse, just not the type of game they'd want to play(& I'd agree).

I'm just really interested to see how/which models get put into legends.

So people prefer illogical crappy non-working rules where rather than balance we get force fed sales tactics? Well humans have never been particularly logical creatures.

macluvin wrote:
Maybe 9E should be written by the community instead of GW... perks include never paying for rules update, having complete control over the rules instead of hoping GW takes a step in the right direction, not ever being forced by GW to buy the newest toy to be competitive, and less moaning and groaning about GW not knowing what it’s doing. Start with core rules, find out how to scratch everyone’s itch for how to represent the tactical depth of a conflict, then core rules for armies, then start adding legion tactics, and what not...

It could easily be done with social media. Join a circle and propose and vote in real time for different rules sets. Develop aspects of rules like modules and plug them in to get the level of realism that you want. All of this is so doable that i am just witing for the moment that people realize that it must be done. Then i am so onboard ...

What i think might happen is that this no model no rules CCG approach to profit maximization through disposable and digital media e.g. a new codex every 2 years plus supplements in between to keep up, will bite GW in the patoot.

ERJAK wrote:

Would you take a Stompa if it was free? Then it's still better than a geminae superia.

really man? youre complaining about a 25pts model why exactly? and do you really consider them useless?

 Emicrania wrote:
Dude eliminators, aggressors and centurions are like 15/20% underpriced. As are the stratagems and the HQ.

fething GW destroying the meta to peddle the numarines...
The models are awesome, why the feth they had to destroy everythung they worked for, is beyond me.

Anyhow, is only ork left for leaks right?

How wonderful

Primaris are my opponent Saturday and I am taking index orks.

I wholeheartedly share your sentiment.
My bet is it was a mix of arrogance too many MBAs and cocaine... but plain old bad leadership was part of it too.

 Ordana wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Burnage wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
At this point i feel like to many units have gotten points drops.
Some of them even outright questonable.

This is definitely starting to feel like just inflating the scale of the game, as opposed to careful balancing. Looking at a 2000 point army from the start of 8th and seeing how much it would be worth now shows a pretty huge difference...

GW need to reinflate points values eventually. The bottom end of the scale in particular already feels very, very crowded with little room for nuance.

I don’t think they care enough. If there wasn’t stubborn demand from tourney folks, GW would just as well drop points and stick with power levels.

AoS was dying in its crib until points were added.
Its not 'tourney folks' demanding points. Its the vast vast majority of players from all across the board.

You missed the point, points or power level they are both systems to gaig the relative strength of different models, AoS's launch was a failure because it didn't have either.

 jeff white wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Dude eliminators, aggressors and centurions are like 15/20% underpriced. As are the stratagems and the HQ.

fething GW destroying the meta to peddle the numarines...
The models are awesome, why the feth they had to destroy everythung they worked for, is beyond me.

Anyhow, is only ork left for leaks right?

How wonderful

Primaris are my opponent Saturday and I am taking index orks.

I wholeheartedly share your sentiment.
My bet is it was a mix of arrogance too many MBAs and cocaine... but plain old bad leadership was part of it too.

Or deliberate action. This sort of buffing one army to ridiculous level is modus operandi for GW.

 Imateria wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Burnage wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
At this point i feel like to many units have gotten points drops.
Some of them even outright questonable.

This is definitely starting to feel like just inflating the scale of the game, as opposed to careful balancing. Looking at a 2000 point army from the start of 8th and seeing how much it would be worth now shows a pretty huge difference...

GW need to reinflate points values eventually. The bottom end of the scale in particular already feels very, very crowded with little room for nuance.

I don’t think they care enough. If there wasn’t stubborn demand from tourney folks, GW would just as well drop points and stick with power levels.

AoS was dying in its crib until points were added.
Its not 'tourney folks' demanding points. Its the vast vast majority of players from all across the board.

You missed the point, points or power level they are both systems to gaig the relative strength of different models, AoS's launch was a failure because it didn't have either.

And the more loose the system is the more prone to failure it is. Hence why powerlevel is horrible because its just a strictly worse version of points where balance is even further off.

 jeff white wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Maybe 9E should be written by the community instead of GW... perks include never paying for rules update, having complete control over the rules instead of hoping GW takes a step in the right direction, not ever being forced by GW to buy the newest toy to be competitive, and less moaning and groaning about GW not knowing what it’s doing. Start with core rules, find out how to scratch everyone’s itch for how to represent the tactical depth of a conflict, then core rules for armies, then start adding legion tactics, and what not...

It could easily be done with social media. Join a circle and propose and vote in real time for different rules sets. Develop aspects of rules like modules and plug them in to get the level of realism that you want. All of this is so doable that i am just witing for the moment that people realize that it must be done. Then i am so onboard ...

What i think might happen is that this no model no rules CCG approach to profit maximization through disposable and digital media e.g. a new codex every 2 years plus supplements in between to keep up, will bite GW in the patoot.

why wait around for when people decree it must be done, just do it and put your home brew rules out there for people to adopt. the community is never as a whole going to rise up and say "WE WRITE OUR OWN RULES" and then magicly agree on said rules.

 Emicrania wrote:

Anyhow, is only ork left for leaks right?

How wonderful

admech
tau
orks
thousand sons
genestealer cults
half of tyranids
astra militarum
the forgeworld stuff

actual pictures to confirm :
drukhari
harlequins
craftworlds

Those (and probably more) are left, stop thinking orks are being deliberatly left out, its starting to be annoying.

On ork FB group there was post who claims to have seen leaks for orks. Grots still 3 pts. Stompa 800 pts without wargear. Didn't tell more.

tneva82 wrote:
On necron tactic thread good point about ghost ark points. For 120 pts you get ghost ark. For 110 pts you get 10 warriors. For the 10 pts difference you get:

Same amount of guns(rapid fire 10 S4 -1 D1 vs 10 rapid fire 1 same stats)
12" speed vs 5"
T6 vs T4
14 wounds vs 10 wounds
4+ save for both
Quantum shield
Fly
Repair automatically one vs RP which isn't even easy to get. Oh and you are immune to morale.

You have degrade but then again warriors degrade firepower per wound taken.

You lose out on h2h ability but really 1 WS3+ S4 attack per model isn't that good. Ability fly gives you better h2h ability by being able to flee.

Really only issue is they aren't troops. But for pure stats it's ghost ark 4ever. The warrior repair thing is just free waste of datasheet space.

RP isn't easy to get? its pretty darn easy to get. even without any support its 1/3 of "lost wounds" back every round. and the warriors CAN be more than 10 in a unit if you want. with some support a warrior squad easily restores 50% of their casualties each round.
Also the ark is more in risk from multi-damage. a warrior can't take more than one casualty per shot, an ark can take multiple damage (despite QS making a mess and making TOO MUCH damage a problem)

 BoomWolf wrote:

RP isn't easy to get? its pretty darn easy to get. even without any support its 1/3 of "lost wounds" back every round. and the warriors CAN be more than 10 in a unit if you want. with some support a warrior squad easily restores 50% of their casualties each round.
Also the ark is more in risk from multi-damage. a warrior can't take more than one casualty per shot, an ark can take multiple damage (despite QS making a mess and making TOO MUCH damage a problem)

Unit dies, no RP roll. Unless you cheat.

Warriors are T4 4+ W1 models. They die. In droves. Any competive army will simply blow entire unit off the board and no more RP.

I'm assuming necron player doesn't cheat and roll RP for destroyed units

RP is a horrible mechanic, it is quite powerful in small games in which killing an entire unit is hard, and useless in large games.

5++ from cryptek?
20 warrior squads?
Missing a SINGLE WARRIOR to RNG can feth you up with a large portion coming back, undoing your effort?

Also, by the same logic, you dont apply repair on a destroyed ark. "they can kill the unit" is hardly a reasonable argument.

 Galef wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Primaris have to go up. The rest need point adjustment. Either they do it, either we start to play smaller army.

I don't agree the Primaris HAVE to go up. Maybe a 1-2ppm increase for Intercessors would be fine, but it's hardly needed.
But I 100% agree with you that everyone should stop playing 2000pts and jump down to 1750pts or even 1500pts as standard

-

Making intercessors more expensive is a better solution than making mid-tier infantry cheaper because they can't measure up to a 2W model with a 3+, ~3 attacks, and assault 3 S4 or heavy 1 multi-damage weapons

 BoomWolf wrote:
5++ from cryptek?
20 warrior squads?
Missing a SINGLE WARRIOR to RNG can feth you up with a large portion coming back, undoing your effort?

Also, by the same logic, you dont apply repair on a destroyed ark. "they can kill the unit" is hardly a reasonable argument.

5++ isn't that much help. And 20 isn't that big help either. When you get used to losing 60+ orks in a turn you know 20 necron warriors isn't that big.

And yeah I'm not factoring ark healing either. It has occasionally done little bit by healing 1 wound after random throwback shot putting dda into better damage table which has generally more impact than say 4 healed up necron warriors. And even that's fairly low.

Warriors pay tons of points for ability that's easy for enemy to negate. Compared to benefits ark has like simply being tougher to begin with making harder to remove, FLY(which is the most powerful keyword in the whole game) and providing something necrons are lacking aka good screen against h2h units which can't be 3 pointed the RP is weak sauce.